Atiku should go and rule the north, or better still, they should get him some heardS  of cattle to rear,, Nigerians are kind-of tired of being  ruled by senseless northerners!-

Kilode?!:

I think you confused me with Koruji here lady, I'm Kilode?! go back and re read my post I was not the one having that Zoning argument with you.

Ok, I wish so too, I'm just concerned about the block voting our people tend to do at election time especially when "Big men" endorse a candidate for them. . .

I apologize, I actually believed the responses were from the same person.


WOW . . . I really need to put my glasses on for this one . . . the mistake started really early on the previous page. . . . ROFLMAO!!

Kilode?!:

Ok, I wish so too, I'm just concerned about the block voting our people tend to do at election time especially when "Big men" endorse a candidate for them. . .

I will like to see some stronger endorsements for Buhari before I can be convinced, as for Ribadu, frankly he has a lot of grassroot work to do. It will be best if ACN can focus their resources on niche states with more progressive populations, win more governorship and senate seats and work their as* off in the next 4 years.

I agree!

[img]https://mail.google.com/mail/e/32B[/img]

The PDP Zoning policy is only a selection method.

The Nigerian Constitution gives parties the right to elect, select or nominate any candidate of their choice.

If within the party's selection method they choose to include a power sharing formula or a pruning down mechanism . . .then I dont see how that tramples on anyone's fundamental human rights.

PDP is not saying anybody has lost their right to be voted for. They are only saying to prevent acrymony let have a system of power rotation that encourages fairness to all groups and ensures that at the end of electoral process people do not hit the streets engaging in ethnic fracas because folks of different ethnic groups or regions took part in election.

So the PDP Zoning formula is a selection method which majority of members of the agreed is how candidates should be chosen at different times.

It is a political decision which those who disagree with them can only leave the party.

Kobojunkie:

I apologize, I actually believed the responses were from the same person.

That's fine, I kinda see the similarities too.

Personally, I think their past records should speak for them.


ATIKU (FORMER V.P) while in office Embezzled the PTF fund
GEJ (FORMER V.P) has no publicly announced embezzled fund

So who is more qualified? Is it the VP that uses his position to enrich is pocket, family and associates OR a devoted VP that has a clean record when he held the same position?      

No you cannot say that . Of course, you can say that, but I disagree. For one, I don't think the constitution (Nigerian or PDP) mentions "zoning" per se. It laid out general principles for inclusiveness. The Federal Character principle in the Nigerian constitution really is not about the zoning of elections. The positions that end up being zoned by the Federal Character principle are really not elective - but of course we know where that has led us.

Other zoning arrangements may be based on an understanding, but that really is not how to judge whether they are constitutional or not.

So the points are: 1) None of the parties have a written constitution "which stipulates that only candidates from certain areas can seriously contest", I don't think; 2) Any party with such rules or that attempt to make its rules appear to be such violates the Nigerian constitution.

Kobojunkie:

Can I say that is a moot point to make in this case? I say that because the word ZONING itself implies that certain candidates will not qualify especially when the office is being zoned to a region they do not belong to.
Let's assume for one second that the candidature is current zoned to the South East. Sure, a South Westerner may feel to contest but since he does not belong to the group the ticket will eventually go to, he is likely wasting his time contesting. So again, Zoning itself implies that candidates that do not meet the base criteria will probably never get the chance at the win, even if they contest.
It does not have to spell out the agreement in A B C for us to get it. The main point is zoning applies and so it is part of their constitution, no matter who wants to contest.
Agreed! But the Zoning law which stipulates that only candidates from certain areas can seriously contest is not unconstitutional. Other parties do the exact same. Many of our ministerial offices are zoned in much the same way so I don't see how we can now label the practice which is sanctioned by the constitution, unconstitutional at this time.

the heck wit it. Who watched the lakers vsw bulls game last nite

These statements are in order, except you forgot the part in the brackets. That is the main point, plus the PDP constitution does not have the kind of rules you are talking about here.
Quote "The PDP Zoning policy is only a selection method. The Nigerian Constitution gives parties the right to elect, select or nominate any candidate of their choice- [size=14pt][according to the constitution of the Federal Republic of Nigeria][/size]

PDP takes the "right to be voted for" away at the point where its rules exclude someone that the constitution would not have excluded.

marcdunu:

The PDP Zoning policy is only a selection method.
The Nigerian Constitution gives parties the right to elect, select or nominate any candidate of their choice.
If within the party's selection method they choose to include a power sharing formula or a pruning down mechanism . . .then I dont see how that tramples on anyone's fundamental human rights.
PDP is not saying anybody has lost their right to be voted for. They are only saying to prevent acrymony let have a system of power rotation that encourages fairness to all groups and ensures that at the end of electoral process people do not hit the streets engaging in ethnic fracas because folks of different ethnic groups or regions took part in election.
So the PDP Zoning formula is a selection method which majority of members of the agreed is how candidates should be chosen at different times.
It is a political decision which those who disagree with them can only leave the party.

Kobojunkie:

ROFLMAO!!

Can't you drive home your point without using the above?

Correct. The Nigerian constitution has requirements for prospective candidates including the criminal part for example. So if a criminal is excluded by a party that would be in accordance with the constitution. It does not necessarily mean that our constitution is perfect, but it remains supreme as a guide for any other law within the Federation.

The right to vote and be voted for is a fundamental right, subject to any limitations of the Nigerian constitution - which include age (in both cases) and education requirements in the second case.

Onlytruth:

@Marcdunu and koruji

I'm enjoying your arguments about Jonathan's Nigerian constitutional rights and the PDP constitution.
What I don't know is whether the right to contest elections is a FUNDAMENTAL human right according to the Nigerian constitution.

From the much I know, a criminal cannot contest for elections in Nigeria, but has a FUNDAMENTAL right to a fair trial in courts.

Therefore if the right to contest elections is a FUNDAMENTAL human right, then the PDP constitution is VOID to the extent of its "deviation" from, or inconsistency with the grand law -the Nigerian constitution. If on the other hand it is not a FUNDAMENTAL right, then the PDP constitution could enjoy a strong legal position in court.

marcdunu:

The PDP Zoning policy is only a selection method.

The Nigerian Constitution gives parties the right to elect, select or nominate any candidate of their choice.

If within the party's selection method they choose to include a power sharing formula or a pruning down mechanism . . .then I dont see how that tramples on anyone's fundamental human rights.

PDP is not saying anybody has lost their right to be voted for. They are only saying to prevent acrymony let have a system of power rotation that encourages fairness to all groups and ensures that at the end of electoral process people do not hit the streets engaging in ethnic fracas because folks of different ethnic groups or regions took part in election.

So the PDP Zoning formula is a selection method which majority of members of the agreed is how candidates should be chosen at different times.

It is a political decision which those who disagree with them can only leave the party.

I see your point. BUT

First, It shows there are too many things wrong with the Nigerian Constitution. The Federal Character law like Zoning, reads like an entitlement program that contradicts basic principles of equality and due process. So go figure, It's like an affirmative action recipe for disaster.

FC is one of the chief impediments to Nigerian Unity. It enhances and magnifies the differences we have. It essentially says that a Nigerian from say Kano cannot aspire beyond the allocated provisions for Kano state. It is a lazy, Dumb policy and the champions of this divisive and puerile principle are always the first to scream One Nigeria!

On Zoning; Why can't those who disagree with Zoning push to change the rules? It is laziness to jump ship everytime you disagree with people, We need politicians who can articulate their positions well, fight and influence those in their group to agree with them.

Zoning the presidency may be pragmatic for the PDP but it is a lazy policy/strategy because it limits the candidate pool and relegates merit to the background. But lets not kid ourselves, all Nigerian parties as far as I know practice Zoning, I'm aware that the AC/ACN as progressive as they claim do practice zoning down to the local Ward levels.

Also, IMO the Pro-Zoning side of the PDP have a stronger moral argument to make on this issue as I do not buy the OBJ camp's explanation that Zoning was not part of the PDP Constitution/Arrangement. They enjoyed the arrangement when they were elected and they are yet to take a case to court to challenge the constitutionality of that arrangement -which goes down to how Senators, Governors, Commissioners and even Ward candidates are chosen.

These I.D.IOTS they need to act based on their stated beliefs and quit playing bold-face games with gullible Nigerians.

Kilode?!:

I see your point. BUT

First, It shows there are too many things wrong with the Nigerian Constitution. The Federal Character law like Zoning, reads like an entitlement program that contradicts basic principles of equality and due process. So go figure, It's like an affirmative action recipe for disaster.

FC is one of the chief impediments to Nigerian Unity. It enhances and magnifies the differences we have. It essentially says that a Nigerian from say Kano cannot aspire beyond the allocated provisions for Kano state. It is a lazy, Dumb policy and the champions of this divisive and puerile principle are always the first to scream One Nigeria!

On Zoning; Why can't those who disagree with Zoning push to change the rules? It is laziness to jump ship everytime you disagree with people, We need politicians who can articulate their positions well, fight and influence those in their group to agree with them.

Zoning the presidency may be pragmatic for the PDP but it is a lazy policy/strategy because it limits the candidate pool and relegates merit to the background. But lets not kid ourselves, all Nigerian parties as far as I know practice Zoning, I'm aware that the AC/ACN as progressive as they claim do practice zoning down to the local Ward levels.

Also, IMO the Pro-Zoning side of the PDP have a stronger moral argument to make on this issue as I do not buy the OBJ camp's explanation that Zoning was not part of the PDP Constitution/Arrangement. They enjoyed the arrangement when they were elected and they are yet to take a case to court to challenge the constitutionality of that arrangement -which goes down to how Senators, Governors, Commissioners and even Ward candidates are chosen.

These I.D.IOTS they need to act based on their stated beliefs and quit playing bold-face games with gullible Nigerians.

thank you!

well i want him to win the election,
anyways, if he does or not, it does
not affect me in any way

SHALOM

suxes2005:

well i want him to win the election,
anyways, if he does or not, it does
not affect me in any way

SHALOM

If you are a Nigerian, it does affect you, your future, your children and there future!

[size=16pt]Useless thread[/size]

Kobojunkie & Kilode, good contributions from both of you!

In my humbled opinion, it seems every discussant for/against (GEJ or Atiku) are missing some important points. Atiku as it is today is by far a stronger candidate from PDP when compared to GEJ. While a lot of noise has been made about Atiku being corrupt there is no single indictment to date which ties him to corruption. I guess same can be said for GEJ. The only thing going for GEJ is the so called power of incumbency, however it is unfortunate that camp GEJ lacks the political skill to make any good use of such an advantage. GEJ and his cronies are just to naive for the political terrain they have mistakenly found themselves in. Atiku on the other and is a dodged politician who knows how to play the game according to its rules and he's always come out unscathed.

Someone mentioned in an earlier post that GEJ has some clout and support which he can muster if he decides to leave PDP. In fact not a single serious minded politician in PDP will leave the party because of GEJ.
The support GEJ has in the southwest (the region which would likely decide where the presidency goes to, come April 9 2011) are from criminals like Akala and Gbenga Daniels. These two guys cannot even deliver their respective states for GEJ. We should not forget that GEJ failed woefully recently in his attempt to remove Bukola Saraki as the Chairman of the Governors' Forum. If GEJ cannot dislodge Saraki, how do we expect him to defeat Atiku? I sincerely think GEJ is by far a weaker candidate in comparison to Atiku.

I was disappointed in the choice of Atiku amongst the 4 guys from the North, but I do really admire the tact and political skills he deployed to defeat IBB.

We should all remember that those who will decide who gets the PDP ticket are most likely not on NL.

My two cents!

Atiku stand the chance to lose in the primaries because OBJ will muster all the arsenals at his disposal to frustrate him.The northern elders will soon realise their mistake.If the battle line had been drawn between IBB and GEJ it would have been a do all die affair.The power of incumbency will also play itself out in favour of GEJ. And dont' be surprised that the IBB's camp will frustrate Atiku when the situation demand.IBB will never accept the choice of Atiku in practical terms and very soon we shall see a divided north.At the end of the day Goodluck will emerge as the duly elected president

Touch not my annointed and do no harm to my prophet(GEJ).U guys should just let this guy be.I want to let all you anti GEJ to know that Victory for him is assured.GEJ 2011

stine b:

Touch not my annointed and do no harm to my prophet(GEJ).U guys should just let this guy be.I want to let all you anti GEJ to know that Victory for him is assured.GEJ 2011

I wish I could stretch out my hands to slap you there for the above!

I've actually done the slapping on your behalf, !

The north have just put their wrong foot forward, when is the PDP primaries, anyway?

The fact that things have always being done one way does not make it constitutional nor the way it should be done in the future - even if it were written. That is part of what is wrong with our system. It reminds of the case of Ribadu & Yar'adua. Without achieving half of what he did in a couple of years in their "lifetime" of service all the police management could argue was how his promotion did not follow the normal process - I guess he was not properly seasoned in the ways of N20 & N50 in place of justice/security. For that singular reason, not minding his meritorious service, they went as far as to: 1) send him on a fake course "to prepare him for greater service"; 2) at the end of the course they denied him the certificate; 3) they demoted him; 4) finally they attempted to have him killed. That is exactly what is going on with zoning - selfish people pursuing their own selfish ends while couching it in the name of the "establishment".

Those who are thinking that Atiku will make a weak candidate and benefit the opposition in the elections need to think again - Atiku is by no means weak, he is a shrewd political operative and corrupt to the bones. I hope GEJ himself doesn't forget that.

As for fighting to change the zoning formula. There was really nothing change as it was an unwritten agreement by selfish idiots to perpetuate themselves in power. In addition, GEJ has made the proactive move to plug the hole in the PDP constitution. And if push comes to shove, GEJ would have reached his own unwritten agreement to zone the PDP presidential slot to the South-South for 2011.

Obviously you did not read what GEJ said about Atiku's argument yesterday:

The Jonathan/Sambo campaign organisation yesterday reacted swiftly to the accusations made by ex-Vice President Atiku Abubakar.

Mr. Sully Abu and Mr. Bolaji Adebiyi in a statement yesterday said Atiku’s allegation that President Goodluck Jonathan broke the Peoples Democratic Party agreement on zoning “is not new.”

“He and his political associates have persisted in rendering this untrue account of the evolution of the zoning policy of the party since they entered the race earlier this year. Our understanding of the issue, however, is that until August 12, 2010 when the National Executive Committee of the party approved a zoning policy, the party had none.

“Whatever existed before then was a whimsical arrangement among some party leaders that could not replace the provisions and guidelines laid down by the constitution of the party for decision-making and policy formulation.

“For the avoidance of doubt, the subsisting zoning and rotation policy of the party is: where an incumbent president dies in office, his successor shall, notwithstanding his zone of origin, be entitled to the rights and privileges of the previous occupant of the office, including the right to seek re-election. This is the policy enunciated by the NEC on August 12 and the agitation of Atiku against President Jonathan’s aspiration, which is in line with this policy, is in keeping with his knack for disrespect for the authority of the party.

“Let us be clear about this: Vice President Atiku’s endorsement by one of the numerous informal political associations in the country represents no serious challenge to the aspiration of President Jonathan because the PDP and its members are not looking for a sectional leader whose antecedent suggests he is an unreliable party man. A man who will abandon the collective simply because of a temporary setback is certainly not one to be relied upon as the party’s flag bearer.

“This in any case is subterfuge; an exercise in futility that will lead its participants absolutely nowhere because we are confident that in January, our party men and women will separate the wheat from the chaff.”

The statement said “Atiku has continued with the selective use of facts to contradict even experts’ opinion that the economy is being well managed and that the fundamentals of the economy remain strong.”

http://thenationonlineng.net/web3/news/19807.html

Kilode?!:

I see your point. BUT

First, It shows there are too many things wrong with the Nigerian Constitution. The Federal Character law like Zoning, reads like an entitlement program that contradicts basic principles of equality and due process. So go figure, It's like an affirmative action recipe for disaster.

FC is one of the chief impediments to Nigerian Unity. It enhances and magnifies the differences we have. It essentially says that a Nigerian from say Kano cannot aspire beyond the allocated provisions for Kano state. It is a lazy, Dumb policy and the champions of this divisive and puerile principle are always the first to scream One Nigeria!

On Zoning; Why can't those who disagree with Zoning push to change the rules? It is laziness to jump ship everytime you disagree with people, We need politicians who can articulate their positions well, fight and influence those in their group to agree with them.

Zoning the presidency may be pragmatic for the PDP but it is a lazy policy/strategy because it limits the candidate pool and relegates merit to the background. But lets not kid ourselves, all Nigerian parties as far as I know practice Zoning, I'm aware that the AC/ACN as progressive as they claim do practice zoning down to the local Ward levels.

Also, IMO the Pro-Zoning side of the PDP have a stronger moral argument to make on this issue as I do not buy the OBJ camp's explanation that Zoning was not part of the PDP Constitution/Arrangement. They enjoyed the arrangement when they were elected and they are yet to take a case to court to challenge the constitutionality of that arrangement -which goes down to how Senators, Governors, Commissioners and even Ward candidates are chosen.

These I.D.IOTS they need to act based on their stated beliefs and quit playing bold-face games with gullible Nigerians.

^^ Koruji, I read it. I also read OBJ's so called clarifications and Osuntokun's rhetoric. You and I know these people are liars and care only about their own present profits. It's Politics. As you can read from my earlier post. I do not just detest Zoning, I also hate it's grandfather; Federal character

These same retards enjoyed zoning while they were appointed. They've always used Zoning to limit My peoples ability to choose their leaders based on merit and from a well represented pool of candidates, they are still doing it. PDP, ANPP, ACN and all the other silly opposition parties have never challenged the federal character principle or even zoning in court (I know court appointments are zoned also) This same zoning occurs during Senates elections and Legislative appointments, Gubernatorial election, State assembly elections, Commissioner appointments, ward elections etc. It is Practiced by all the parties, These same Fools probably allow zoning at their Children's PTA clubs.

It is disingenuous, Hypocritical and dishonest for them to keep releasing stupi.d press reports and interviews condemning and denying an act they practice everytime they conduct an election or appoint civil servants. These bunch of losers are not serious.

Unfortunately, our people are still too unenlightened to challenge them and counter their falsehood. I have no time for half hearted political shenanigans and My people should not encourage it.

OBJ, GEJ, Ribadu and the rest of them can deny Zoning till they get blue in the face but, until they start correcting the foundational defects that continues to tear our people and the polity apart, I will not take their statements seriously. They can all wrap their babanriga around their neck and commit seppuku. My people won't be foolish forever though, that I'm sure of.

I agree with you 100%.

However, it seems to me that GEJ fighting this & prevailing would mark the begining of the end for zoning, especially for elections in Nigeria.

At this point, I feel that among all those contesting for the presidency Ribadu & GEJ give us the best hope for "some" real change in the way Nigeria is organized. These guys have the hunger to do something right. It will then be up to us to see that they do.

Kilode?!:

^^ Koruji, I read it. I also read OBJ's so called clarifications and Osuntokun's rhetoric. You and I know these people are liars and care only about their own present profits. It's Politics. As you can read from my earlier post. I do not just detest Zoning, I also hate it's grandfather; Federal character

These same retards enjoyed zoning while they were appointed. They've always used Zoning to limit My peoples ability to choose their leaders based on merit and from a well represented pool of candidates, they are still doing it. PDP, ANPP, ACN and all the other silly opposition parties have never challenged the federal character principle or even zoning in court (I know court appointments are zoned also) This same zoning occurs during Senates elections and Legislative appointments, Gubernatorial election, State assembly elections, Commissioner appointments, ward elections etc. It is Practiced by all the parties, These same Fools probably allow zoning at their Children's PTA clubs.

It is disingenuous, Hypocritical and dishonest for them to keep releasing stupi.d press reports and interviews condemning and denying an act they practice everytime they conduct an election or appoint civil servants. These bunch of losers are not serious.

Unfortunately, our people are still too unenlightened to challenge them and counter their falsehood. I have no time for half hearted political shenanigans and My people should not encourage it.

OBJ, GEJ, Ribadu and the rest of them can deny Zoning till they get blue in the face but, until they start correcting the foundational defects that continues to tear our people and the polity apart, I will not take their statements seriously. They can all wrap their babanriga around their neck and commit seppuku. My people won't be foolish forever though, that I'm sure of.

koruji:

I agree with you 100%.

However, it seems to me that GEJ fighting this & prevailing would mark the begining of the end for zoning, especially for elections in Nigeria.

Balderdash!!! Is this like fighting crime by committing more crime or what? The post you even pretend to agree with says nothing close to what you keep coming u with here.

koruji:


At this point, I feel that among all those contesting for the presidency Ribadu & GEJ give us the best hope for "some" real change in the way Nigeria is organized. These guys have the hunger to do something right. It will then be up to us to see that they do.

What real change? how can getting more of the same old baggage give you the best hope for real change? What are you smoking?

I agree with him 100% doesn't mean that all I said agree or follow from what he said. I was moving from the realm of the ideal to that of the possible.

And I gave my reason why either Ribadu (prefered) or Jonathan (practical) provides the best chance. The onus of changing Nigeria is really on the people. What we need is a leader that will not stand in the way because of an overblown ego. These two fit the bill, in my opinion.

He he he - what am I smoking? U want some?     

Kobojunkie:

Balderdash!!! Is this like fighting crime by committing more crime or what? The post you even pretend to agree with says nothing close to what you keep coming u with here.

What real change? how can getting more of the same old baggage give you the best hope for real change? What are you smoking?

koruji:

I agree with him 100% doesn't mean that all I said agree or follow from what he said. I was moving from the realm of the ideal to that of the possible.

And I gave my reason why either Ribadu (prefered) or Jonathan (practical) provides the best chance. The onus of changing Nigeria is really on the people. What we need is a leader that will not stand in the way because of an overblown ego. These two fit the bill, in my opinion.

How you came about the above, I have no clue. Considering the two men have no real records to gauge them on, I am not sure how anyone can make such a definite statement of any of them. I remember some also made similar claims of yar adua.

It goes like this. Nigeria's leaders tend to see themselves in the role of emperors instead of high level employees of the people - it is an ego problem. Of all the candidates so far, both of these guys seem to have a good perspective in this regard - that is unless their actions are helping the people it is of no use. I believe that unless any leader gets this right he will ultimately fail.

Again I am looking at the choices b/4 us. Which of these contenders do U prefer?

Kobojunkie:

How you came about the above, I have no clue. Considering the two men have no real records to gauge them on, I am not sure how anyone can make such a definite statement of any of them. I remember some also made similar claims of yar adua.

y wud anyone want jonathan to lose d elections na

You guyz are making an empty noise coz GOODLUCK EBELE JOHNATAN AZIKEWE wil surely be our PRESIDENT.

koruji:

It goes like this. Nigeria's leaders tend to see themselves in the role of emperors instead of high level employees of the people - it is an ego problem. Of all the candidates so far, both of these guys seem to have a good perspective in this regard - that is unless their actions are helping the people it is of no use. I believe that unless any leader gets this right he will ultimately fail.

I know, our leaders reflect the prevailing culture in Nigeria though, Ageism(Gerontocracy) "Big-manism" "God-fatherism (all the Naija isms, you get the picture) whatever you call it, it's a culture that ignores basic principles of equality or egalitarianism. Most of us are guilty of that nonsense from our Churches/Mosques to our kitchens.

Koruji I do not share your enthusiasm about GEJ but, I can see why you might consider him a lesser evil, he has a calmer demeanor and he seems to care more about  maintaining a certain positive public persona. Beyond that, I can't see how he's different from his former boss Alams, with his large foreign entourage, spending N23Bils on Jets!!

I took the Benin Ore road recently sir! the Busiest business inter-state road corridor in Nigeria is still an eyesore and a death trap! 23BN on jets?!  Patience's corruption allegations, the dumb rice distribution, I can't even believe GEJ didn't participate in Alamieyeseigha's looting of Bayelsa but, that's just me. I refuse to suspend that much disbelief. So, yes he seems gentle, But I'm also a Nigerian, I've seen enough and as they say in obodo oyinbo, even if you put lipstick on a pig. . . .  

As for Ribadu and co, I'm not impressed either, however, I will be happy to see a very weak and less powerful PDP even if they win the presidency. Ribadu/ACN has work to do and They need to focus on becoming a strong opposition. They've wasted too much time already

I do not even want to talk about that "foam in the mouth" illiterate called Atiku, that thief will sell Nigeria to the highest bidder and quickly too!