Some Christians believe that they don't have to do any work, because Jesus had already done all (finished) the work.

But there's something Jesus said that suggested that the work He finished was His own work, and not that of any other man.

For Jesus said:

Matthew 16:24 (KJV)

24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

So if Jesus had finished not just His own works, but the work of every man inclusive of carrying all their crosses, what did Jesus mean by the bolded?

What cross was Jesus talking about?

Thanks and God bless.

He was talking about the same cross you stated. Cross of suffering, pains, sorrow, hatred and host of others which a believer faces on his/her christian journey. As a believer if one is experincing any challemges at all, that is his/her cross one have to carry n followimg christ. Study the account of d apostles, stephen who was stoned to death without sin, paul who was in prinsoned in rome for some yrs because he was preaching d gospel n others. We must endure till d end. The kingdom of God is not bread and butter.

ovieohene:
He was talking about the same cross you stated. Cross of suffering, pains, sorrow, hatred and host of others which a believer faces on his/her christian journey. As a believer if one is experincing any challemges at all, that is his/her cross one have to carry n followimg christ. Study the account of d apostles, stephen who was stoned to death without sin, paul who was in prinsoned in rome for some yrs because he was preaching d gospel n others. We must endure till d end. The kingdom of God is not bread and butter.

Hmmm...

So Paul also had to carry his cross and follow Jesus, despite saying that it's not by works?

Or is it that the works and carrying of cross was just meant for those early Christians, while we have to do no works but just rest on the finished works of Jesus?

Because all the Apostles of Jesus at the time carried their crosses and worked really hard for Jesus as you have already shown with the examples you cited.

Thanks.

You must first understand what d finishef work is. This was a spiritual battle. Jesus fought for i n u to be call God's children. He was the only one who was able to do this. If not for his finished work n making a public show of those who taught by killing him d apostles they had succeded we will not be here. By carrying our is to show truly we love and appreciate his love and finished works. Therefore finished work means making d way easier for i n u to now take our own cross n follow him.

ovieohene:
You must first understand what d finishef work is. This was a spiritual battle. Jesus fought for i n u to be call God's children. He was the only one who was able to do this. If not for his finished work n making a public show of those who taught by killing him d apostles they had succeded we will not be here. By carrying our is to show truly we love and appreciate his love and finished works. Therefore finished work means making d way easier for i n u to now take our own cross n follow him.

Thanks for your explanation thus far.

But what i don't yet get from it is If Jesus didn't just finish His own work which was to die for the sins of the world, but also the works of every man to be able to partake of the benefit of His work.

For instance a bro here used the illustration that as a result of the finished works of Christ he doesn't need to do any work, but just get into boat and let the boat do all the work.

And he may have a point if Jesus truly had finished the work of every man and not just His, because in that case you don't have to work to be saved.

But that goes contrary to the saying of Jesus concerning every man taking up his cross, because that suggested that He didn't finish our work but just His, so every man ought to finish his own work to be able to benefit of Christ's finished works. Matthew 16:25-27

So did Jesus also finish our works or just His?

What cross was Jesus talking about?

He is not going to do your work for you.

Cross is carried by *those who have been condemned to die* under the *roman rule and empire*
Taking up one's cross as a Christian does not relate to the temptations, labours, trials, difficulties of our individual lives
rather
*accepting that you have died with Jesus Christ* inside his body on the tree of Calvary and have *received the new life of Christ Jesus Crucified* as a replacement of *our old-dead-self/flesh inside Christ on the Cross*
As long as we are Christians, there is only one Cross.
That Cross is the Cross upon which Christ Jesus died, paid the full prize of sin *once and forever* to the Father and gave out *a new life/flesh* which is his own to *anybody who will believe that what He did on Calvary is for him/her*
This new life was breathed-out on the tree of Calvary when He *expired*. It is this new life that tore the temple curtain from top to bottom, opened the tombs of the righteous who died before Jesus Crucifixion after his resurrection, went down to the unrighteous who died before His Crucifixion and were held down in the prison of Hades then proclaimed the gospel to them thereby setting the captives of the tyrant free, opened the grave on resurrection morning, revealed his resurrected being for forty days towards His disciples, ascended to the Father and pleaded for the outpouring of the Holy Spirit upon the Church and continues to abide/manifest within the Church till date in each Christian even group of believers as He will continue till His second glorious coming.

Anybody who has not accepted what Jesus Christ Crucified did on the Cross of Calvary for *every human being both born and unborn* as the only means of salvation and is not *willing to receive the LIFE; He gave-out when He died on the Cross* is not a Christian and is not *carrying his/her Cross* no matter the amount of trials, difficulties, challenges, persecutions, sicknesses, diseases e.t.c he/she is facing currently.

Trials, tribulations, temptations and sicknesses can still affect any human being whether you are a Christian or not thus John 16:33 "These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. *In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.*"
As a Christian when these issues come your way *submit to the NEW LIFE dwelling inside you now, He has overcome them before and He will continue to overcome them at his own time and method but those *issues are not cross or crosses* rather *they are temptations and tribulations*

There is only one-cross for Christians; the Cross of Jesus Christ which *defines our death inside the Crucified body of Jesus Christ and the replacement of our old-dead-self/flesh by His New Life* thus Colossians 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. 3:2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. 3:3 *For ye are dead*, and *your life is hid with Christ in God". 3:4 When *Christ, who is our life*, shall appear, then shall *ye also appear with him in glory*.

This is why any human being who claims to be a Christian cannot be producing any fruit that is *contrary to the lifestyle of Christ Jesus Crucified while he was inside his own mortal-body on earth* whether you are a baby Christian, growing Christian or adult Christian. Your babyhood *must* reflect the babyhood of Jesus Christ,
Growing Christian *must* reflect the growing phase of Christ and our adult Christian *must* reflect the adult phase of Christ Jesus Crucified.

Any gathering of human beings were the Cross, its meaning and effects as well as the encouragement to carry the Cross of Jesus Christ is not given *a major time-frame* is not a Christian gathering/fellowship/study/prayer/activity.

It is the death of Jesus Christ on the Cross of Calvary for human beings to *atone for our sins*, destroy the old-body of sin, erase all the written ordinances standing contrary against us, defeat the demons and devil *permanently* as well as *replace our old-dead-flesh with his own new flesh* that makes *Jesus* different and unique from *all the prophets of old*, other religion and every other religious leader in this age and in the age to come. This is why Paul said I share the gospel in the language of the Holy Spirit so that I do not *reduce the efficacy/power of the Cross* 1 Corinthians 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, *lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.*
And
That all he wants to share with any group of human beings as long as the gospel is concerned is not just any type of Jesus (Miracle Jesus, Healing Jesus, Deliverance Jesus, Packaged Jesus e.t.c) but *Christ and Him Crucified*
1 Corinthians 2:2 For *I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified*.
It is the preaching of the gospel of Jesus Christ Crucified on the Cross of Calvary that brings about Salvation, Miracles, Deliverance, Healing, Prosperity, Holiness-as-a-consistent-lifestyle, Genuine-believers, Sound-teachers, Committed-brethren, generous-family, practical-loving/selfless-persons as a community of Jesus Christ followers
Thus Mark 16:20 "And they *went forth*, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and "confirming the word with signs following*. Amen.

Acts 4:33 And with *great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.* 4:34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, 4:35 And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.

When those who claim to be Christians stopped preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ death on the Cross of Calvary and His resurrection as *an incorruptible seed* then shifted towards human doctrines, leadership-tussle/politics, quest for arbitrary power/stage-drama, fame/popularity, preference-to-structural-buildings-over-human-souls, motivational-psychology, spiritualized-lust-for-money/mammon e.t.c;
The fruit of *genuine christianity* became rare however we thank God for His *current revival through the sudden upsurge of the gospel of Jesus Christ death on the Cross and His resurrection* in this our generation.
Great Grace Brethren!!!

Are you just saying what you want to believe, or believe what Jesus said.

Jesus by that saying clearly showed that every one of us had our own cross to carry if we want to follow Him.

So if you say that there's no other cross to carry in Christianity but that of Jesus, are you saying that the cross Jesus asked us to carry was His own cross, or that Jesus said that in error?

And Jesus made it very clear that failing to take up our cross as He had commanded us, had eternal consequences:

Matthew 16:25-27 (KJV)

25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.
26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Hence Jesus shows the difference between His cross/work and our own cross/work, and also the consequence for not taking our own cross which is death.

Moreover it also illustrates the difference between suffering for our own sakes, and suffering for His own Name and Word sake which appears to be the cross He was talking about.

ochibuogwu5:
Cross is carried by *those who have been condemned to die* under the *roman rule and empire*
Taking up one's cross as a Christian does not relate to the temptations, labours, trials, difficulties of our individual lives
rather
*accepting that you have died with Jesus Christ* inside his body on the tree of Calvary and have *received the new life of Christ Jesus Crucified* as a replacement of *our old-dead-self/flesh inside Christ on the Cross*
As long as we are Christians, there is only one Cross.
That Cross is the Cross upon which Christ Jesus died, paid the full prize of sin *once and forever* to the Father and gave out *a new life/flesh* which is his own to *anybody who will believe that what He did on Calvary is for him/her*
This new life was breathed-out on the tree of Calvary when He *expired*. It is this new life that tore the temple curtain from top to bottom, opened the tombs of the righteous who died before Jesus Crucifixion after his resurrection, went down to the unrighteous who died before His Crucifixion and were held down in the prison of Hades then proclaimed the gospel to them thereby setting the captives of the tyrant free, opened the grave on resurrection morning, revealed his resurrected being for forty days towards His disciples, ascended to the Father and pleaded for the outpouring of the Holy Spirit upon the Church and continues to abide/manifest within the Church till date in each Christian even group of believers as He will continue till His second glorious coming.

Anybody who has not accepted what Jesus Christ Crucified did on the Cross of Calvary for *every human being both born and unborn* as the only means of salvation and is not *willing to receive the LIFE; He gave-out when He died on the Cross* is not a Christian and is not *carrying his/her Cross* no matter the amount of trials, difficulties, challenges, persecutions, sicknesses, diseases e.t.c he/she is facing currently.

Trials, tribulations, temptations and sicknesses can still affect any human being whether you are a Christian or not thus John 16:33 "These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. *In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.*"
As a Christian when these issues come your way *submit to the NEW LIFE dwelling inside you now, He has overcome them before and He will continue to overcome them at his own time and method but those *issues are not cross or crosses* rather *they are temptations and tribulations*

There is only one-cross for Christians; the Cross of Jesus Christ which *defines our death inside the Crucified body of Jesus Christ and the replacement of our old-dead-self/flesh by His New Life* thus Colossians 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. 3:2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. 3:3 *For ye are dead*, and *your life is hid with Christ in God". 3:4 When *Christ, who is our life*, shall appear, then shall *ye also appear with him in glory*.

This is why any human being who claims to be a Christian cannot be producing any fruit that is *contrary to the lifestyle of Christ Jesus Crucified while he was inside his own mortal-body on earth* whether you are a baby Christian, growing Christian or adult Christian. Your babyhood *must* reflect the babyhood of Jesus Christ,
Growing Christian *must* reflect the growing phase of Christ and our adult Christian *must* reflect the adult phase of Christ Jesus Crucified.

Any gathering of human beings were the Cross, its meaning and effects as well as the encouragement to carry the Cross of Jesus Christ is not given *a major time-frame* is not a Christian gathering/fellowship/study/prayer/activity.

It is the death of Jesus Christ on the Cross of Calvary for human beings to *atone for our sins*, destroy the old-body of sin, erase all the written ordinances standing contrary against us, defeat the demons and devil *permanently* as well as *replace our old-dead-flesh with his own new flesh* that makes *Jesus* different and unique from *all the prophets of old*, other religion and every other religious leader in this age and in the age to come. This is why Paul said I share the gospel in the language of the Holy Spirit so that I do not *reduce the efficacy/power of the Cross* 1 Corinthians 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, *lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.*
And
That all he wants to share with any group of human beings as long as the gospel is concerned is not just any type of Jesus (Miracle Jesus, Healing Jesus, Deliverance Jesus, Packaged Jesus e.t.c) but *Christ and Him Crucified*
1 Corinthians 2:2 For *I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified*.
It is the preaching of the gospel of Jesus Christ Crucified on the Cross of Calvary that brings about Salvation, Miracles, Deliverance, Healing, Prosperity, Holiness-as-a-consistent-lifestyle, Genuine-believers, Sound-teachers, Committed-brethren, generous-family, practical-loving/selfless-persons as a community of Jesus Christ followers
Thus Mark 16:20 "And they *went forth*, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and "confirming the word with signs following*. Amen.

Acts 4:33 And with *great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.* 4:34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, 4:35 And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.

When those who claim to be Christians stopped preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ death on the Cross of Calvary and His resurrection as *an incorruptible seed* then shifted towards human doctrines, leadership-tussle/politics, quest for arbitrary power/stage-drama, fame/popularity, preference-to-structural-buildings-over-human-souls, motivational-psychology, spiritualized-lust-for-money/mammon e.t.c;
The fruit of *genuine christianity* became rare however we thank God for His *current revival through the sudden upsurge of the gospel of Jesus Christ death on the Cross and His resurrection* in this our generation.
Great Grace Brethren!!!

ln Roman times, the cross was not only a symbol of death but of torture and oppression.
Dying by the cross was to die a death of dishonour and shame, so much so, that to the Romans, it was the worst possible death a man could die and part of the benefit of becoming a Roman citizen was that you can die by any other means but not the cross. To the jews, it was a curse from God because cursed is anyone that hangs on a tree.

So to the hearers of jesus, if one is to take up his cross and follow jesus, means one is prepared to follow jesus even unto death, shame, and stigma by the standard of both jews and gentiles. lt was a hard saying and not to be taken lightly.

jesus took on the worst possible death in the eyes of the people of his time, because many righteous jews looking forward to the kingdom of God and hoping that Israel be saved from the oppression of Rome also died that way, so that in every way he was made to become like unto his brethren, even the least of them in the eyes of the people.

Today the cross is a happy symbol of christianity, used in institutions like Red cross society to help the least of the brethren amongst us, this is how jesus has succeeded in turning the idea of the cross on its head.

Have you taken up your cross as Jesus commanded?

jesusjnr:
Have you taken up your cross as Jesus commanded?

While we have just a few more days until the demise of one of us, can you explain to everyone what exactly might be meant by the cross Jesus commanded us to pick up please, because as you might have seen, many think there's no cross to bear anymore because Jesus has borne all crosses.

The Jesus story is fictional, there is no where in the old testament that a prophet prophesied that God was sending his son to come and die for sins, when he already gave a solution to the problem of sin.. God does nothing without first telling his servant the prophet.. Amos3 :7...the Jesus story is just a Roman fabrication.. To deceive gullible and feeble minds..

"if my people who are called by my name will humble themselves, and confess and forsake their sins, I will hear from heaven and forgive them and heal their land.. ". No sacrifice of any kind is required or necessary.. Just confess and forsake.. God will forgive and heal...

Why should he be waiting for us to kill a human being as sacrifice after he has warned us" thou shall not kill "..

I need answer...

FYI. The Jesus story come from ancient tales about Marduk... Marduk is the son of Enki, the lugal dimmer Ankia which literally translate to the divine king Of heaven and earth..

sonmvayina:
The Jesus story is fictional, there is no where in the old testament that a prophet prophesied that God was sending his son to come and die for sins, when he already gave a solution to the problem of sin.. God does nothing without first telling his servant the prophet.. Amos3 :7...the Jesus story is just a Roman fabrication.. To deceive gullible and feeble minds..

"if my people who are called by my name will humble themselves, and confess and forsake their sins, I will hear from heaven and forgive them and heal their land.. ". No sacrifice of any kind is required or necessary.. Just confess and forsake.. God will forgive and heal...

Why should he be waiting for us to kill a human being as sacrifice after he has warned us" thou shall not kill "..

I need answer...

FYI. The Jesus story come from ancient tales about Marduk... Marduk is the son of Enki, the lugal dimmer Ankia which literally translate to the divine king Of heaven and earth..

The Jesus story is fictional, there is no where in the old testament that a prophet prophesied that God was sending his son to come and die for sins, when he already gave a solution to the problem of sin.. God does nothing without first telling his servant the prophet.. Amos3 :7...the Jesus story is just a Roman fabrication.. To deceive gullible and feeble minds..

lsaiah 53, he was bruised for the transgression of my people.


if my people who are called by my name will humble themselves, and confess and forsake their sins, I will hear from heaven and forgive them and heal their land.. ". No sacrifice of any kind is required or necessary.. Just confess and forsake.. God will forgive and heal...

That is a different kind of sin, not the sin jews sacrificed in the temple for, which was for unintentional collective sin.

Why should he be waiting for us to kill a human being as sacrifice after he has warned us" thou shall not kill "..

You don't understand what the sacrifice of christ means, and l don't blame you because evangelicals themselves take it out of context.

FYI. The Jesus story come from ancient tales about Marduk... Marduk is the son of Enki, the lugal dimmer Ankia which literally translate to the divine king Of heaven and earth..

lf the jesus tale came from anywhere, then it's most likely from the old testament characters like Moses for instance. lt is more likely that the tales are based on a real person who was actually crucified, but the followers had to explain the disappointment of the crucifixion because they thought he was the messiah of Israel.

Daejoyoung:


The Jesus story is fictional, there is no where in the old testament that a prophet prophesied that God was sending his son to come and die for sins, when he already gave a solution to the problem of sin.. God does nothing without first telling his servant the prophet.. Amos3 :7...the Jesus story is just a Roman fabrication.. To deceive gullible and feeble minds..

lsaiah 53, he was bruised for the transgression of my people.


if my people who are called by my name will humble themselves, and confess and forsake their sins, I will hear from heaven and forgive them and heal their land.. ". No sacrifice of any kind is required or necessary.. Just confess and forsake.. God will forgive and heal...

That is a different kind of sin, not the sin jews sacrificed in the temple for, which was for unintentional collective sin.

Why should he be waiting for us to kill a human being as sacrifice after he has warned us" thou shall not kill "..

You don't understand what the sacrifice of christ means, and l don't blame you because evangelicals themselves take it out of context.

What have you succeeded in doing?.. Absolutely nothing..
Isaiah 53 is about Israel.. Isaiah already told you time after time that the servant is Israel and the beloved is Jacob.. There is no controversy there.. Isaiah 53 is what the Kings of the earth will say when they find out that Israel has been right all along.. Start from 52:12....read 41:7-8..the suffering servant is Israel...

All God desires is a contrite heart not sacrifice...
Christianity is just paganism.. There is nothing in Christianity that God approved of... Nothing..

Daejoyoung:


The Jesus story is fictional, there is no where in the old testament that a prophet prophesied that God was sending his son to come and die for sins, when he already gave a solution to the problem of sin.. God does nothing without first telling his servant the prophet.. Amos3 :7...the Jesus story is just a Roman fabrication.. To deceive gullible and feeble minds..

lsaiah 53, he was bruised for the transgression of my people.


if my people who are called by my name will humble themselves, and confess and forsake their sins, I will hear from heaven and forgive them and heal their land.. ". No sacrifice of any kind is required or necessary.. Just confess and forsake.. God will forgive and heal...

That is a different kind of sin, not the sin jews sacrificed in the temple for, which was for unintentional collective sin.

Why should he be waiting for us to kill a human being as sacrifice after he has warned us" thou shall not kill "..

You don't understand what the sacrifice of christ means, and l don't blame you because evangelicals themselves take it out of context.

FYI. The Jesus story come from ancient tales about Marduk... Marduk is the son of Enki, the lugal dimmer Ankia which literally translate to the divine king Of heaven and earth..

lf the jesus tale came from anywhere, then it's most likely from the old testament characters like Moses for instance. lt is more likely that the tales are based on a real person who was actually crucified, but the followers had to explain the disappointment of the crucifixion because they thought he was the messiah of Israel.

The Messiah was from the tribe of Judah... From the root of Jesse.. Meaning he must have a human father since genealogy is transferred from father to son... Jesus is not from anywhere.. Since he has no father according to the story..

The Messiah was coming in to rule in a peaceful world... The new convenant God promised was a convenant of everlasting peace... Men will hammer their swords in to ploughshares and learn of war no more... Has it happened?.. NO.
never human sacrifice for sin.. This is paganism

sonmvayina:


What have you succeeded in doing?.. Absolutely nothing..
Isaiah 53 is about Israel.. Isaiah already told you time after time that the servant is Israel and the beloved is Jacob.. There is no controversy there.. Isaiah 53 is what the Kings of the earth will say when they find out that Israel has been right all along.. Start from 52:12....read 41:7-8..the suffering servant is Israel...

All God desires is a contrite heart not sacrifice...
Christianity is just paganism.. There is nothing in Christianity that God approved of... Nothing..

You said .....(lsaiah 53 is about Israel.. Isaiah already told you time after time that the servant is Israel and the beloved is Jacob.. There is no controversy there.. Isaiah 53 is what the Kings of the earth will say when they find out that Israel has been right all along.. Start from 52:12....read 41:7-8..the suffering servant is Israel)...

The servant is not always Israel as a nation, but can refer to Messaiah sometimes( the representative of lsrael) For example in lsaiah 49v3-6(still talking about the servant called lsrael):

3)And he said to me, you are my servant o israel, In whom l will be glorified.
4)Then l said, l have laboured in vain, l have spent my strength for nought and in vain.
Yet surely my reward is with the lord and my work with my God.
5) And now the lord says. who formed me from the womb to be his servant to bring Jacob back to him, so that lsrael is gathered to him.
6) indeed he says, it is too small a thing that you should be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob and to restore the preserved ones of israel, l will also give you a light to the gentiles that you should be my salvation to the ends of the earth.


So if the servant is always Israel as a nation, how can lsrael in this passage restore lsrael? lt makes no sense. The servant here like in lsaiah 53, is clearly a human being who represents the nation of lsrael to God, because he is king of lsrael.

sonmvayina:


What have you succeeded in doing?.. Absolutely nothing..
Isaiah 53 is about Israel.. Isaiah already told you time after time that the servant is Israel and the beloved is Jacob.. There is no controversy there.. Isaiah 53 is what the Kings of the earth will say when they find out that Israel has been right all along.. Start from 52:12....read 41:7-8..the suffering servant is Israel...

All God desires is a contrite heart not sacrifice...
Christianity is just paganism.. There is nothing in Christianity that God approved of... Nothing..

Jesus also says l desire mercy but not sacrifice.
ln another place he says Forgive others their sins from your heart, and only then can God forgive you.
You my man, you are confused like many evangelicals about why christ died.
Christianity has some fusion of what you call paganism, but christianity is not paganism.
God certainly approved of jesus of Nazareth.

sonmvayina:


The Messiah was from the tribe of Judah... From the root of Jesse.. Meaning he must have a human father since genealogy is transferred from father to son... Jesus is not from anywhere.. Since he has no father according to the story..

The Messiah was coming in to rule in a peaceful world... The new convenant God promised was a convenant of everlasting peace... Men will hammer their swords in to ploughshares and learn of war no more... Has it happened?.. NO.
never human sacrifice for sin.. This is paganism

jesus came to achieve that peace. That ldeal peace doesn't just happen overnight by magic.
The sermon on the mount teaches us how to live, so that the kingdom of God(kingdom of peace) would come. Sorry but if we don't live that way, the kingdom of peace (kingdom of God) would never come. lt doesn't come by magic.

Daejoyoung:


jesus came to achieve that peace. That ldeal peace doesn't just happen overnight by magic.
The sermon on the mount teaches us how to live, so that the kingdom of God(kingdom of peace) would come. Sorry but if we don't live that way, the kingdom of peace (kingdom of God) would never come. lt doesn't come by magic.

God never said the Messiah will be his son?.. Has men hammered their swords in to ploughshares?.. Is there peace on earth?... The list goes on and on.. Jesus did not fulfil even 1of the Messianic prophesies.. None...

Messiah means annionted.. Like David, Solomon, Samuel... Anointed with a special oil.. To rule as king.. Not to come and change God's laws.. Comprende?

Daejoyoung:


Jesus also says l desire mercy but not sacrifice.
ln another place he says Forgive others their sins from your heart, and only then can God forgive you.
You my man, you are confused like many evangelicals about why christ died.
Christianity has some fusion of what you call paganism, but christianity is not paganism.
God certainly approved of jesus of Nazareth.

Show me from the old testament where God said the Messiah will be divine or that he will die for sins, or any of the things you believe about Jesus.... I will wait..

sonmvayina:


Show me from the old testament where God said the Messiah will be divine or that he will die for sins, or any of the things you believe about Jesus.... I will wait..

My Lord said unto my Lord, sit at my right hand until l make thine enemies thy footstool.

Psalm 110v1.

This shows that the messaiah would be divine.

l was watching in the night visions and behold one like the son of man coming with the cloud of heavens he came to the ancient of days...
And to him was given glory and dominion and a kingdom, that all peoples, nations and language should serve him.

Daniel 7v13-14.

This shows that he would be divine.

lsaiah 53 shows that because of the transgression of God's people he was cut off out of the land of the living.

He poured his soul unto death and made intercession for sinners.

Father Forgive them, for they know not what they do.
Luke 23v34.

sonmvayina:


God never said the Messiah will be his son?.. Has men hammered their swords in to ploughshares?.. Is there peace on earth?... The list goes on and on.. Jesus did not fulfil even 1of the Messianic prophesies.. None...

Messiah means annionted.. Like David, Solomon, Samuel... Anointed with a special oil.. To rule as king.. Not to come and change God's laws.. Comprende?

Are you sure about that? what about the psalms that says.... You are my son, today have l begotten you.

Daejoyoung:

My Lord said unto my Lord, sit at my right hand until l make thine enemies thy footstool.

Psalm 110v1.

This shows that the messaiah would be divine.

l was watching in the night visions and behold one like the son of man coming with the cloud of heavens he came to the ancient of days...
And to him was given glory and dominion and a kingdom, that all peoples, nations and language should serve him.

Daniel 7v13-14.

This shows that he would be divine.

lsaiah 53 shows that because of the transgression of God's people he was cut off out of the land of the living.

He poured his soul unto death and made intercession for sinners.

Father Forgive them, for they know not what they do.
Luke 23v34.

You really are a clown... First of all psalm is not a prophesy, they are poems written by David mostly to be recited in the temples and synagogue.. That particular psalm was written by David and given to the choirmaster to recite in the temple.. The Lord (God the creator) said to my lord (David)...... Isaiah 53 is not also a prophesy, it is what the Kings of the earth will say when they find out that Israel was innocent all along.. The servant days will be prolong, he shall see his offspring (children).... That does not look anything like Jesus... Daniel encounter was a vision not a prophesy too... Read it in context..

Daejoyoung:


Are you sure about that? what about the psalms that says.... You are my son, today have l begotten you.

It is a poem... Not a prophesy.. Written by David.. It is Israel.. Israel is God's chosen.. His inheritance..

sonmvayina:


You really are a clown... First of all psalm is not a prophesy, they are poems written by David mostly to be recited in the temples and synagogue.. That particular psalm was written by David and given to the choirmaster to recite in the temple.. The Lord (God the creator) said to my lord (David)...... Isaiah 53 is not also a prophesy, it is what the Kings of the earth will say when they find out that Israel was innocent all along.. The servant days will be prolong, he shall see his offspring (children).... That does not look anything like Jesus... Daniel encounter was a vision not a prophesy too... Read it in context..

So David is also a lord at the right hand of God? which means he holds authority like God? that to me would mean David is divine in some ways.

Your interpretation of lsaiah 53 does not make sense, l wonder how it makes sense to you. For God's sake, how is lsrael innocent of anything? lsrael like sheep have gone astray just like all of us, and the lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Now if l am to go with your interpretation that this is lsrael, wouldn't that make God even more unjust( according to your standard)? why should God lay the sin of the gentiles on an entire nation? How is that interpretation more just from God, than the christian interpretation that God rather laid the iniquity on one man, not an entire nation?

Daniel was a vision, and so what? that doesn't explain anything.

sonmvayina:


It is a poem... Not a prophesy.. Written by David.. It is Israel.. Israel is God's chosen.. His inheritance..

jesus represents lsrael. The gathering of lsrael is to be by jesus.

Out of Egypt have l called my son.

This applies to both lsrael and jesus.

I wonder if you believed stories about the hare and the tortoise or learnt lessons from the stories?

This thread is about a story where a person named Jesus said "take up his cross, and follow me". Is this all it means to you?

sonmvayina:


FYI. The Jesus story come from ancient tales about Marduk... Marduk is the son of Enki, the lugal dimmer Ankia which literally translate to the divine king Of heaven and earth..

sonmvayina:


It is a poem... Not a prophesy.. Written by David.. It is Israel.. Israel is God's chosen.. His inheritance..

jesus is like isaac, Joseph, and Moses in the bible. lf you look closely, all of these characters were key to lsrael becoming a nation in a way that required survival.

isaac for instance, if he was sacrificed by Abraham, then the promise would have been abolished and there would have been no nation of lsrael, but Abraham reasoned that God is able to raise him from the dead, and so he obeyed God. ln thesame way, the death of the messaiah jesus did not represent the end of the promise because God is able to raise him from the dead.

Also look at Joseph who was taken from prison and the grave to sit at the right hand of Pharaoh and supplied corn from Egypt to not only his brothers who delivered him to death, but to all of the world. Joseph was key to Israel's survival, but he was also saviour of the world because he delivered food to all. ln thesame way, jesus is saviour of the world because he delivers the true bread of God to the world by which they may have abundant life.

The similarities with Moses are just so many, but l am sure you get the point.

lf jesus is a fairy tale as you assert, then the writers were thinking of the Jewish fairy tales of how they became a nation, not pagan fairy tales.

Take up your cross!