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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Politics / Definition Of Middle Belt (17037 Views)
Middle Belt Youths, Cleric Declare Support For Jonathan’s Re-election / We Will Vote Jonathan Despite Our Regrets In Voting Him In 2011 – Middle Belt / In The Event Of A Break War, How The Middle Belt Will Align/fare (2) (3) (4)
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Re: Definition Of Middle Belt by Tsiya(m): 8:08pm On Nov 27, 2010 |
Onlytruth: You should also understand that states population is not ethnic population. There have always being large number Igbo population in the North, and if they are counted during cencus, they are counted as Nigerians not Hausa or Fulani or Igbo. Nigerians have mingled and resettled beyond what people in Nairaland want us to believe. Anyway Jonathan is not contesting because he thinks he the population in the North is small, I think he is contesting because he thinks he can arm twist/cajole/bribe Governors and Nationals Assembly members to get PDP ticket for him. He is sure with a PDP ticket, then certainly he is a President. They know votes doesn't count. It is how many influential people you have that matters. MShittu: I think you don't understand the polotics in the North. Gwari, Fulani, Kanuri, means little in the larger context of Northern politics. Military Dictators are not elected leaders and they mean little |
Re: Definition Of Middle Belt by Onlytruth(m): 8:34pm On Nov 27, 2010 |
Tsiya: The flaw in your statement is that Nigeria's power is shared along ethnic and sectional lines. Today, you have a tribe that could possibly be the single biggest in Nigeria holding a 4th position in the pecking order. How long do you think such lie can endure before we have another major problem in Nigeria? It is a simple fact that without justice there can be no peace. Igbo are far less represented at the federal level than some minute tribe from the north. You think that is sustainable? Peace-wise? I strongly doubt it. Developed countries of the world count ethnic and national origin backgrounds in census. If Nigeria wants to stay together in peace, we must count ethnic nationalities. |
Re: Definition Of Middle Belt by DapoBear(m): 9:35pm On Nov 27, 2010 |
Onlytruth: Not sure that the common sentiment of the the middle belt man should be make to coincide with that of elites. Atiku sef is a Fulani from Adamawa, but from what I read the predominant ethnic group there is the predominantly Christian Bachama, who have a Yoruba female senator. As a result, I'm not sure it is fair to lump them in with the North, especially for such a weak reason as speaking Hausa as their 2nd or 3rd language. Any crookedness of Atiku clearly doesn't reflect on the people of Adamawa. Birom in Plateau for example obviously do not see themselves as "North." |
Re: Definition Of Middle Belt by Onlytruth(m): 10:38pm On Nov 27, 2010 |
DapoBear: My argument is that in terms of political power in Nigeria, there is no middlebelt. There is the north. With the exception of Murtala Muhammed, Sani Abacha and Tafawa Balewa, the rest of Nigeria's leaders from the north are middle belters. The so called middlebelt would not have tasted power if not for the support of the so called core north. Murtala Muhammed led the counter coup of July 1966 and chose Gowon to lead Nigeria, and he did so for 9 years. Ibrahim Babangida - a so called middlebelter took part in Muhammeds' coup that toppled Gowon in 1975. If you follow the history of northern dominance in Nigeria, you would see that the core and middlenorth worked as ONE to dominate and rule Nigeria for 38 years. That is all I am saying. |
Re: Definition Of Middle Belt by Abagworo(m): 11:32pm On Nov 27, 2010 |
Onlytruth: I wonder why they killed Igbos mercilessly during the 1966 pogrom.Infact the first recorded massive killing of Igbos occured at Jos in 1945. |
Re: Definition Of Middle Belt by hedoyad(m): 11:39pm On Nov 27, 2010 |
My argument is that in terms of political power in Nigeria, there is no middlebelt. There is the north. With the exception of Murtala Muhammed, Sani Abacha and Tafawa Balewa, the rest of Nigeria's leaders from the north are middle belters. The so called middlebelt would not have tasted power if not for the support of the so called core north. Murtala Muhammed led the counter coup of July 1966 and chose Gowon to lead Nigeria, and he did so for 9 years. Ibrahim Babangida - a so called middlebelter took part in Muhammeds' coup that toppled Gowon in 1975. If you follow the history of northern dominance in Nigeria, you would see that the core and middlenorth worked as ONE to dominate and rule Nigeria for 38 years. That is all I am saying. Using your curious yard stick we could as well say there's no south-south since Augustus Aikhomu was in power with IBB and Mike in power Abacha ? And looking at the history of coup d'etats , where were Gideon Orkar and Dimka from and who were their bitter, bloody Coups directed at ? You're not even making any sense with what you're saying. |
Re: Definition Of Middle Belt by hedoyad(m): 11:47pm On Nov 27, 2010 |
I wonder why they killed Igbos mercilessly during the 1966 pogrom.Infact the first recorded massive killing of Igbos occured at Jos in 1945. And can you give an instance of this case with evidence and give us a proven case of igbos being slain by the category of people you identified as middle belt earlier on. By the way i could give you incidences of christian middle belt persons slain on igbo soil(not yoruba or south-south) in retaliation to riots up north were middlebelt christians made up majority of the victims. |
Re: Definition Of Middle Belt by Onlytruth(m): 11:57pm On Nov 27, 2010 |
hedoyad: In PRACTICAL AND REALISTIC terms, not in lies and schemings, YES there is no South south. What we have is really East and Midwest. Notice that Jonathan returned to his true base -East, when he decided to contest next year's elections. The East remains his true base (because I have seen folks from Edo and even part of Delta mounting serious challenge to his candidacy ). The PDP primaries will show this more clearly. As for Gideon Orka and Dimka, they were northerners who felt that the northern elite was cheating them. They belong to the same radical school of the Abubakar Umar and co. They wanted to rattle that northern ruling class and force them to change for the good of the nation as a whole. They were actually trying to complete the Kaduna Nzeogwu coup which was bungled. It has nothing to do with being from "middlebelt". |
Re: Definition Of Middle Belt by hedoyad(m): 12:32am On Nov 28, 2010 |
In PRACTICAL AND REALISTIC terms, not in lies and schemings, YES there is no South south. What we have is really East and Midwest. Notice that Jonathan returned to his true base -East, when he decided to contest next year's elections. The East remains his true base (because I have seen folks from Edo and even part of Delta mounting serious challenge to his candidacy ).Ofcourse you mean folks like Raymon Dokpesi which is not suprising considering his gripe with obj. And btw do you mean the same south east which was courting IBB's idea and is still dealing cards with Atiku ? and PDP primaries will show this more clearly .As for Gideon Orka and Dimka, they were northerners who felt that the northern elite was cheating them. They belong to the same radical school of the Abubakar Umar and co. They wanted to rattle that northern ruling class and force them to change for the good of the nation as a whole. They were actually trying to complete the Kaduna Nzeogwu coup which was bungled. It has nothing to do with being from " middlebelt". Haha, you make me laugh. Do you know anything about those coups ? Look at the ethnic make up of the officers who executed the Dimka coup and get back to me. The Orkar coup wasn't much different save for the inclusion of officers from the south south region of the country. I'd also like u to understand that, like i said earlier on page one, that the divisions are a not only based on ethnicity but also religious affiliations(ethno-religous). As a result predominantly christian middle belt tribes like the beroms or jaba would naturally align with Jonathan, though it's more complex than that. |
Re: Definition Of Middle Belt by Obiagu1(m): 1:03am On Nov 28, 2010 |
Onlytruth: I really don't think that there is Midwest as well. My guess is that the Midwest was created because of the error of given Delta Igbo to the West. As a result, the remaining smaller groups in the west together with Delta Igbo were grouped together as Midwest. Ideally, Edo, Urhobo, Itsekiri are West leaning. This is the main reason the South South is fake - amalgamation of West and East leaning groups. In the same vein, there is nothing like Middlebelt, Amingafar is an example. |
Re: Definition Of Middle Belt by Onlytruth(m): 2:48am On Nov 28, 2010 |
Obiagu1: Exactly! I forgot the first bolded. |
Re: Definition Of Middle Belt by PhysicsQED(m): 2:53am On Nov 28, 2010 |
Obiagu1: The part in bold is pure nonsense. That had little to do with anything. I don't think you have any familiarity with how the Midwest came about and are just throwing around conjectures based on your own ethnocentric, biased perspective . And the "the remaining smaller groups in the west" were not "grouped" with "Delta Igbo." "Delta Igbo" were considered to Midwesterners just as much those other groups, some of which, I should point out had cultural ties or longstanding relationships with those smaller groups. In 1963 nobody decided to just arbitrarily separate the Delta Igbo from the other non-Yoruba groups in the West simply because they were Igbo. This is why you had Osadebay as premier, for example. Nobody saw them as some "other" group, until 1967. And nobody would have created a state just to free Delta Igbo from the West, be sensible. Politics worked against the weakened Action Group (mostly Yoruba) opposition to creation of minority states in the West, while politics worked for the NCNC (mostly Igbo) opposition to the creation of the Calabar-Ogoja-Rivers state in the East and for the NPC (controlled by Hausa-Fulani) opposition to creation of Middle Belt states. As for the South South being fake, that's completely true. Are the political interests of the Ibibios the same as the Ijaws? Occasionally, but not usually. Are the political interests of the Urhobos the same as that of the Ijaws? Occasionally, but not usually. Are the political interests of the Ogoni the same as the Edo? Of course not. Are the political interests of the Ibibio, Efik, Itsekiri, Edo, and Delta Igbo the same? Of course not. South South is a regrettable political concoction which fuses geography and politics to distort the already unbalanced political landscape of Nigeria to weaken the South as whole by using the minorities in the South for the political interest of the North. The reason those regions came about is because of the lack of unity in the amalgamation (Nigeria) which made ethnic politics on the part of both the minorities and the majorities in the three regions result in discomfort and antagonism on both sides. 1 Like |
Re: Definition Of Middle Belt by Onlytruth(m): 2:59am On Nov 28, 2010 |
hedoyad: I don't think Jonathan will get more votes from any other part of Nigeria than he will get from the East. FACT. As for the Dimka and Orka coups, I believe they were simply rebelling against the old ruling feudal class in Northern Nigeria, nothing more. It is also important to point out that the idea is not an exclusive preserve of officers from Benue/Plateau axis. Far northern elements like Abubakar Umar also support it. It originated with Chukwuma Kaduna Nzeogwu (an Igbo boy who was born and raised in the north) who failed in his first attempt at the same goal in January 1966. That Igbo officers didn't take part in Dimka and Orkar coups in full swing is a product of the Nzeogwu coup and the civil war. The minority tribes felt safe to try. They would not be ganged up against as in the case of Igbo officers. The idea has survived even till today -kill all northern feudal class and save the nation. I don't think Nigeria's problem is that simple though. You get to know Nigeria more when it comes to peaceful national politics. |
Re: Definition Of Middle Belt by Obiagu1(m): 5:05am On Nov 28, 2010 |
PhysicsQED: You completely misunderstood me. There’s no problem between Delta Igbo and non-Yoruba West so Osadebe becoming premier when Midwest was created should not be a line of argument you should use. In the beginning there was South. East and West was created to separate the two major groups, the Igbo and Yoruba only to cut Igboland in two with one going west and the other east. I remember former governor of Anambra State, C.C. Onoh telling my dad how he and his group protested vehemently against Delta Igbo going West all to no avail. Except you tell me why Midwest was created in a democratic government out of the then West, I can’t seem to find a reason for its creation while the other regions, East and North remained intact. |
Re: Definition Of Middle Belt by Onlytruth(m): 5:47am On Nov 28, 2010 |
Obiagu1: Interesting stuff. I have also wondered why that happened, especially since NCNC had so much influence nationally then. Waiting for Mr. PhysicsQED . . . |
Re: Definition Of Middle Belt by Faeb: 7:51am On Nov 28, 2010 |
Obiagu1: How about visting places like waado.org to educate yourself on such issues, that is the sort of place you should head for? It is annoying when people launch into ethnocentric guesswork. The reason Midwest was created is because the minorities didn't want to be lorded over by any majority group, we battled hard for our independence, we won it and we will preserve it. |
Re: Definition Of Middle Belt by Abagworo(m): 8:13am On Nov 28, 2010 |
Faeb: The reason is because our grandfathers did not realise the importance of southern unity.The north remained intact while the South was divided into three just because of ethnic sentiments.The inclusion of Igbos in Western region was as a result of the natural boundary created by River Niger.It is thesame as what we have today in Rivers and Abia states where a family could be from both states just because Imo river was used as a convenient boundary. |
Re: Definition Of Middle Belt by Onlytruth(m): 8:37am On Nov 28, 2010 |
Abagworo: Africans have demonstrated unparalleled laziness in dealing with very important matters. To simply split a nation almost straight down the middle for whatever reason is very irresponsible. One of Nigeria's biggest failures is the fact that we never improved much on what the white man left for us. We had to bring in the UN experts to demarcate the boundary between Nigeria and Cameroun. That boundary has been there since the plebiscite of early 60s. |
Re: Definition Of Middle Belt by Onlytruth(m): 8:46am On Nov 28, 2010 |
Faeb: You may be right to some extent, but your response never explained why the Igbos ended up in the midwest in the first place. As for the creation of midwest, I would not rule out strong agitation on the part of midwestern Igbos against being thrown into western Nigeria, and midwest being a kind of compromise. That may be part of why they were suspected by fellow midwesterners during the 1966 crisis, and why they were brutally massacred by the advancing Nigerian army. |
Re: Definition Of Middle Belt by DapoBear(m): 10:13am On Nov 28, 2010 |
Onlytruth: This isn't true at all, though. The middle belt has had a distinct identity for a long time, and their relative power was strengthened as a result of the killing of the Saradauna and the civil war. Just because they've allied with the core North as a junior partner doesn't make them the same as the core North. For example, as I'm reading in this book The Nigerian Civil War state creation was supported by the middle belt, opposed by the core North, but eventually occurred in part due to pressure from the middle belt. |
Re: Definition Of Middle Belt by marcus1234: 10:13am On Nov 28, 2010 |
Re: Definition Of Middle Belt by DapoBear(m): 10:23am On Nov 28, 2010 |
Regarding the Western Region, it appears that is was established in the 1930s by the British. Perhaps for them they thought the River Niger would be a more convenient border for administration than ethnicity. I've also wondered why Kwara and western Kogi for example were not incorporated into the Western region, if ethnicity was supposed to be the main determininant of each boundary. But I imagine that for similar reasons of convenience, inertia, etc, it just didn't happen. |
Re: Definition Of Middle Belt by Abagworo(m): 10:55am On Nov 28, 2010 |
If Nigeria was well governed ,ethnicity would not have been an issue. |
Re: Definition Of Middle Belt by DapoBear(m): 10:57am On Nov 28, 2010 |
Abagworo: Ethnicity I think makes Nigeria harder to govern. Too many interests to balance. It is hard for me to think of a country quite as complicated ethnically as Nigeria. A bit unique in this respect, I think? |
Re: Definition Of Middle Belt by Abagworo(m): 11:10am On Nov 28, 2010 |
DapoBear: Our early politicians are guilty of starting the ethnic politics that has made Nigeria complex.The ethnic groups in Nigeria were artificial creations.I am not denying there earlier existence but they never identified themselves as one and only noticed that they spoke similar language.If things were left this way,there would not have been mega-ethnic groups like Igbo and Yoruba. |
Re: Definition Of Middle Belt by DapoBear(m): 11:14am On Nov 28, 2010 |
Abagworo: Same thing happened to the Germanic tribes and Italian city states. I think it is somewhat inevitable. |
Re: Definition Of Middle Belt by gadogado(m): 11:50am On Nov 28, 2010 |
@dapobear you're seriously trying to divide and conquer. North and Middle Belt. Well no matter what you do, you're never going to be able to divide the north and dish out separate identities to the "middle belt" its just not going to happen, to assume so means you know very little about the history and sociology of the north. You certainly dont know about the politics. You have a large chunk of the so called middle belt that speak hausa as a lingua franca. Only benue and kwara dont speak hausa to the extent I'm talking about, even kogi speaks hausa to some extent, the religion is too strong in Kogi anyway. Hausa people dominate the north, its as simple as that. Im not even hausa but I recognize the socio cultural influence they have on the whole region. You cant change it coz it took several hundred years to be imprinted in the psyche!!! So no amount of divide and conquer tactics will work. Hausa's are the masters of divide and conquer tactics. The Hausa Fulani are just a politically gifted people. Watch and see them remove Jonathan from that position. Just Watch! Mark my words!!! They put obasanjo there and when he got greedy with third term, they prevented it!!! Just Watch them work their magi that'll leave you flabbergasted!!!AS long as the Hausa fulani want, Nigeria wont break up coz politically, they control the country. |
Re: Definition Of Middle Belt by Obiagu1(m): 12:02pm On Nov 28, 2010 |
Faeb: It wasn't only Western minorities that wanted their own region, Southern Cameroun wanted, Ijaws wanted, and others but why was only Midwest created before the military balkanised every region? Can’t you sense an air of compromise as a result of Igbo agitation? If there was a large Yoruba population in the East, don’t you think that another region would have been created from the East? Having listened to some old Igbo politicians, they were angered by the split of Igboland in two. You don’t have to send me to an Urhobo website, if the Urhobos were influential in the early 60s, why was Urhobo not the 4th language recognised in the constitution? |
Re: Definition Of Middle Belt by DapoBear(m): 12:08pm On Nov 28, 2010 |
^-- How on earth could Igbo agitation have been the primary cause of the creation of the Midwest region? Think about how unrealistic that sounds. |
Re: Definition Of Middle Belt by DapoBear(m): 12:11pm On Nov 28, 2010 |
gadogado: You need to be a bit more realistic. This middle belt identity/agitation is not a new phenomenon, it appears to be at least around since the 50s. I think that unless there is a strong figure in the North to suppress it, it will continue to grow naturally and organically. |
Re: Definition Of Middle Belt by Obiagu1(m): 12:11pm On Nov 28, 2010 |
DapoBear: Why was similar region not created from the East despite the demand for it from Eastern minorities? It's about influence, the Hausa/Fulani, Igbo and Yoruba had enormous influence then. |
Re: Definition Of Middle Belt by DapoBear(m): 12:15pm On Nov 28, 2010 |
Obiagu1:But is isn't the Igbo influence which caused the midwest region to come about. What were they, 20% or so of the population of that region? How will that 20% cause a region to come about if the remaining 80% are against it? My point is that the creation of the midwest region likely happened because it was the popular will of the populace of that region, not the Igbo minority and the Eastern region. |
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