If Jesus Was Black,... - Religion - Nairaland
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| If Jesus Was Black,... by sonmvayina(m): 5:24pm On Dec 29, 2019 |
If Jesus was a black Nigerian or Ghanaian, would African worship him?.. I know white people won't, so I am not going there... If it was my village people from oshimili North local government area.. That brought a saviour concept to the rest of the world and Nigeria would we worship him as God?.... And our saviour... If his name was ifeanyi Okeke.. Would we?.. 1 Like |
| Re: If Jesus Was Black,... by Daejoyoung: 5:28pm On Dec 29, 2019 |
sonmvayina:ok let's get something straight. For the records, jesus was neither a white man nor a black man. He was from the middle east. Not specifically white or black. lf your village people bring a saviour God that teaches self sacrificial love and the kingdom of God and then dies to give this kingdom a foundation, then l would believe in that saviour. The jesus story in the bible is like the joseph story. Joseph a wise man, was put in the pit by his brothers but rose out of the pit to save the world during the time of famine by giving the world corn from the most powerful kingdom in the world then( the kingdom of Egypt) where Joseph ruled from the throne, subordinate to only Pharaoh. So also jesus is the bread of life that gives the world the word of God to make their spirits come alive. Jesus is seated at the right hand of God, and rules with God. Also in the Jewish myth, when God told Abraham to sacrifice isaac, this made no sense because it would have ended the promise God made to Abraham to bless the world through the progeny of isaac, but Abraham reasoned that death was not a barrier because God is able to raise isaac from the dead, so also when jesus(the promised one) died, this was not a barrier to the promise, because jesus is still fulfilling the promise until this day, jesus through his death has conquered the world and gained more followers from every tribe, nation, and tongue, which he bought with his blood according to the book of Revelations. That is the fulfillment of the promise to Abraham. 2 Likes |
| Re: If Jesus Was Black,... by CAPSLOCKED: 5:35pm On Dec 29, 2019 |
sonmvayina: NO. BECAUSE IN OUR HEADS.. THINGS OF THE FOREIGNERS ARE ALWAYS BETTER. 4 Likes |
| Re: If Jesus Was Black,... by MJBOLT: 5:42pm On Dec 29, 2019 |
jesus only exists in the bible,there are no historical records of his existence anywhere.if you have such records please provide them. [s] Daejoyoung:[/s] 6 Likes |
| Re: If Jesus Was Black,... by Daejoyoung: 5:49pm On Dec 29, 2019 |
MJBOLT:No credible historian denies the existence of jesus. The only one l know who has a PhD in history that does this is Richard Carrier, and he hasn't been taken seriously in academia because his arguments are not convincing. So tell me why you think jesus did not exist, give me points and let's examine the arguments. |
| Re: If Jesus Was Black,... by MJBOLT: 5:53pm On Dec 29, 2019 |
nobody asked you for story,provide proof of jesus existence based on historical facts even the historians that lived during jesus supposed time did not write about him. [s] Daejoyoung:[/s] 3 Likes |
| Re: If Jesus Was Black,... by Daejoyoung: 6:02pm On Dec 29, 2019 |
MJBOLT:The historians that lived in jesus time also did not write about any jew. We know about many jews of the first century today due to the writings of josephus who lived towards the end of the first century. Caiaphas was the most important religous jew in the time of jesus but we have no contemporary writings about him until josephus, infact we have more records about jesus than about any jew from the first century as a whole. |
| Re: If Jesus Was Black,... by MJBOLT: 6:08pm On Dec 29, 2019 |
philo judaeus,justus tibirus,titus livius etc wrote about jews and early religions but they did not mention jesus [s] Daejoyoung:[/s] |
| Re: If Jesus Was Black,... by MJBOLT: 6:10pm On Dec 29, 2019 |
jesus records only exist in the bible,show us his historical records outside the bible. Daejoyoung: 5 Likes
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| Re: If Jesus Was Black,... by Daejoyoung: 6:16pm On Dec 29, 2019 |
MJBOLT:l'm not sure you are familiar with this topic at all, philo was more into philosophy and political matters and we don't get so much information about religous people at the time or even contemporary jews from his writings, we get them mainly from josephus. Your criteria is wrong, we do not have contemporary writings about many historical people we know of today, not even the Ceasars. lt is usually after they are gone, sometimes decades and even hundreds of years. ln the case of jesus, we have paul who narrates his story in Galatians in AD 51, and who knew peter and james ( the brother of jesus), and speaks to his readers about them as though the readers were already familiar with these characters from the Jerusalem church. lt means just few years after the death of jesus, we already have paul who converted and there's evidence of a church and churches. The other characters you mention apart from philo, can you show me evidence those were contemporaries of jesus? |
| Re: If Jesus Was Black,... by MJBOLT: 6:20pm On Dec 29, 2019 |
dont ask me for proof when you cannot even provide historical records of jesus outside of the bible,mentioning fictional characters like paul and peter is not proof of jesus existence [s] Daejoyoung:[/s] 3 Likes |
| Re: If Jesus Was Black,... by MJBOLT: 6:24pm On Dec 29, 2019 |
like i said before,philo wrote about jews and early religions but not jesus https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philo 1 Like |
| Re: If Jesus Was Black,... by Daejoyoung: 6:25pm On Dec 29, 2019 |
MJBOLT:lol, so Galatians is fictional? ok. |
| Re: If Jesus Was Black,... by MJBOLT: 6:27pm On Dec 29, 2019 |
| Re: If Jesus Was Black,... by MJBOLT: 6:30pm On Dec 29, 2019 |
| Re: If Jesus Was Black,... by MJBOLT: 6:31pm On Dec 29, 2019 |
the bible is a work of fiction no different from a stephen king or edgar allen poe novel Daejoyoung: 5 Likes |
| Re: If Jesus Was Black,... by Daejoyoung: 6:32pm On Dec 29, 2019 |
MJBOLT: let me give you criticism of historians on your view that there was no contemporary account of the life of jesus. Mainstream biblical scholars point out that much of the writings of antiquity have been lost[143] and that there was little written about any Jew or Christian in this period.[144][145] Ehrman points out that we do not have archaeological or textual evidence for the existence of most people in the ancient world, even famous people like Pontius Pilate, whom the myth theorists agree to have existed.[144] Robert Hutchinson notes that this is also true of Josephus, despite the fact that he was "a personal favorite of the Roman Emperor Vespasian".[146] Hutchinson quotes Ehrman, who notes that Josephus is never mentioned in 1st century Greek and Roman sources, despite being "a personal friend of the emperor".[146] According to Classical historian and popular author Michael Grant, if the same criterion is applied to others: "We can reject the existence of a mass of pagan personages whose reality as historical figures is never questioned."[147] |
| Re: If Jesus Was Black,... by Daejoyoung: 6:37pm On Dec 29, 2019 |
MJBOLT it seems you think writing was a popular thing in the ancient world. Now give me contemporary popular figures of his time you say philo wrote about. Philo's writings were mainly arguments on philosophy and interpretation of the jewish law, why should he write about an insignificant Gallilean rabbi from a backwater town like Nazareth? this is not a good argument from you at all in my opinion, sorry to say. |
| Re: If Jesus Was Black,... by MJBOLT: 6:41pm On Dec 29, 2019 |
there are no records of a man that performed miracles and had multitudes from different places come see him,this same man fed 5 thousand people at once like it was nothing but we have proof of ancient egyptian kings who existed years before jesus and were not even as popular as jesus was. The only proof of jesus existence is in the bible. [s] Daejoyoung:[/s] 1 Like |
| Re: If Jesus Was Black,... by MJBOLT: 6:44pm On Dec 29, 2019 |
so a man that had multitudes follow him was insignificant. [s] Daejoyoung:[/s] 1 Like
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| Re: If Jesus Was Black,... by Daejoyoung: 6:47pm On Dec 29, 2019 |
MJBOLT:Yeah he was still from Nazareth, insignificant to the Roman's and Greeks as well as the jews generally who looked down on Nazareth. lf you read josephus you would see that there were many healers during the time of jesus, but we didn't have much about them until josephus wrote his history. This was an oral culture and writing was only for the literate. |
| Re: If Jesus Was Black,... by xproducer: 7:03pm On Dec 29, 2019 |
sonmvayina: ---- OP, I see your point. However, it would be irrelevant because however many people the Lord GOD - to Whom power belongs (Psalm 62:11) - purposes to come to Him and be saved, shall come to Him... regardless of what country the Lord JESUS CHRIST could come from. "So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth; It shall not return to Me void, But it shall accomplish what I please, And it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it." - Isaiah 55:11 "So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." - Romans 10:17 1 Like |
| Re: If Jesus Was Black,... by 1Sharon(f): 8:24pm On Dec 29, 2019 |
Daejoyoung: The josephus writings were proven to be fraudulent. 1 Like |
| Re: If Jesus Was Black,... by Daejoyoung: 8:54pm On Dec 29, 2019 |
1Sharon:l don't know what you mean by the josephus writing were proven to be fraudulent? are you saying all of josephus writing or only the part about jesus? josephus writing as a whole cannot be fraudulent, because only from his writings do we know so much about events in judea in the first century. lf rather you mean the parts relating to jesus then: Not all parts of it are fraudulent because we are able to gather all the manuscripts from josephus and scholars have shown the parts that were added and the ones belonging to the original. Also josephus mentions jesus twice, only in one of that was there an interpolation, the other one is genuine. 1 Like |
| Re: If Jesus Was Black,... by Daejoyoung: 9:03pm On Dec 29, 2019 |
1Sharon, l guess when you say fraudulent you are referring to this writing by josephus. lt is not fraudulent, only some added parts like Christ are considered fraudulent. But even if you reject this reference to jesus, the second reference to jesus is widely considered as authentic. So it doesn't change anything. This is the reference to jesus from josephus l believe you are talking about: About this time there lived Jesus, a wise man, if indeed one ought to call him a man. For he was one who performed surprising deeds and was a teacher of such people as accept the truth gladly. He won over many Jews and many of the Greeks. He was the Christ. And when, upon the accusation of the principal men among us, Pilate had condemned him to a cross, those who had first come to love him did not cease. He appeared to them spending a third day restored to life, for the prophets of God had foretold these things and a thousand other marvels about him. And the tribe of the Christians, so called after him, has still to this day not disappeared. Flavius Josephus: Antiquities of the Jews, Book 18, Chapter 3, 3[43] For Greek text see [2] This is the more authentic version agreed on by majority of scholars: At this time there appeared Jesus, a wise man. For he was a doer of startling deeds, a teacher of people who receive the truth with pleasure. And he gained a following among many Jews and among many of Gentile origin. And when Pilate, because of an accusation made by the leading men among us, condemned him to the cross, those who had loved him previously did not cease to do so. And up until this very day the tribe of Christians (named after him) had not died out. (per Meier, op. cit., page 61). The quote above is the authentic quote from josephus after removing the added parts and considering all the manuscript evidence. Also a couple of notes here: 1) The term wise man is a common language of josephus in his writing style. Christian's hardly used that term for jesus. 2)He blamed pilate and the Roman's for the crucifixion, Christians usually blamed jews for the crucifixion. 3) He referred to the Christians as "tribe of Christians ". Definitely this is a strange way for Christians to refer to themselves and is consistent with josephus who was a jew and not a Christian. And many other things like he saying that jesus preached to gentiles is contradictory to the new testament. Also phrases like "receive the truth with pleasure " are part of Josephine writing style 2 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: If Jesus Was Black,... by Daejoyoung: 9:26pm On Dec 29, 2019 |
1Sharon finally this is the second reference to jesus by josephus considered by all to be authentic: Having such a character ["rash and daring" in the context], Ananus thought that with Festus dead and Albinus still on the way, he would have the proper opportunity. Convening the judges of the Sanhedrin, he brought before them the brother of Jesus who was called the Christ, whose name was James, and certain others. He accused them of having transgressed the law and delivered them up to be stoned. 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: If Jesus Was Black,... by budaatum: 9:49pm On Dec 29, 2019 |
sonmvayina:Yes, some would. Oyakhilome, Adeboye, Olumba, Fela and Tacha are all black and some do worship them! 4 Likes |
| Re: If Jesus Was Black,... by budaatum: 9:52pm On Dec 29, 2019 |
1Sharon:Are you asking us to believe you or you just being lazy? Abeg work harder and provide evidence for this instead of treating us like lazy believers! 3 Likes |
| Re: If Jesus Was Black,... by MrPresident1: 10:28pm On Dec 29, 2019 |
budaatum: Evidence for what? Do your own research, and leave the lady alone 2 Likes |
| Re: If Jesus Was Black,... by budaatum: 10:38pm On Dec 29, 2019 |
MrPresident1:Why should I leave "the lady" alone? Did she complain to you that I should or are you just poking your nose in someone else's business? I have done my own research and it does not agree with that of whom I asked it of. Unlike you, I do believe "the lady" might have come across something I might have missed and don't mind being educated. 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: If Jesus Was Black,... by MrPresident1: 10:45pm On Dec 29, 2019 |
budaatum: Blah blah blah buda for eartum |
| Re: If Jesus Was Black,... by budaatum: 10:48pm On Dec 29, 2019 |
MrPresident1: |
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