A popular verse in the word of faith movement is Job 22:28 which they use to back their claim that Christians are to decree and declare. The verse reads:

Job 22:28
“Thou shalt also decree a thing, and it shall be established unto thee: and the light shall shine upon thy ways.”

I remember when I shared a thread a few days to December 31st to warn Christians against saying certain prayers and in certain manners, many rebuked me and called me an anti-christ. The thread spoke against the decree and declare doctrine. Majority kicked against the message and backed their point by quoting Job 22:28 as seen above. See thread below

https://www.nairaland.com/5603871/why-should-beware-kind-prayer

To them, they are right and I am wrong, but it only shows that they know nothing about the Bible. Let's prove that.

Check out the passage below.

Isaiah 14:13-14
13 ...I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

Why is it that Christians don't go about reciting the above passage which looks very much like a decree and declare doctrine? They don't because they know that is what Satan said that turned him into a fallen angel.

So, clearly not every verse in the Bible is meant for us to use in certain ways. The Bible says...

2 Timothy 3:16-17
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God , and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

The passage about Satan's fall was not given to us by God for us to go about trying to exalt ourselves to his level. It was given to us to learn not to exalt ourselves or allow provide consume us because that's what led to Satan's fall. That's why the passage above says the scripture was given"for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness".

Why then are people quoting Job 22:28 wrongly and using it to back the decree and declare doctrine? It is because they have been deceived. It is also because they haven't really examined that verse properly. Let's do that.


Job 22:28
“Thou shalt also decree a thing, and it shall be established unto thee: and the light shall shine upon thy ways.”

Now, who was talking in the above verse? What is God or one of his prophets? No, it wasn't God nor any of his prophets. That was Eliphaz the Temanite, one of the three friends of Job who visited him during his predicament.

Eliphaz spoke the entire words in Job chapter 22, not God nor his prophets. Verse one explains that.

Job 22:1
Then Eliphaz the Temanite answered and said,


Eliphaz was not a prophet of God. As a matter of fact, all the things he spoke in that chapter wrongly represented God and got rebuked by God for saying them.

Job 42:7-8
7 And it was so, that after the LORD had spoken these words unto Job, the LORD said to Eliphaz the Temanite, My wrath is kindled against thee, and against thy two friends: for ye have not spoken of me the thing that is right, as my servant Job hath.
8 Therefore take unto you now seven bullocks and seven rams, and go to my servant Job, and offer up for yourselves a burnt offering; and my servant Job shall pray for you: for him will I accept: lest I deal with you after your folly, in that ye have not spoken of me the thing which is right, like my servant Job.

Can we now see that the verse in Job 22:28 which is commonly used to support the decree and declare doctrine is wrongly used?

Don't be deceived, any prayer that has you decreeing and declaring is not acceptable unto God because it doesn't align with his word. Nowhere did he ever tell you to do such. Even when Jesus taught us to pray, he never used the decree and declare method. Every part of the prayer sees us relying on God for everything e.g daily bread, protection from temptation etc.

Sadly, many said their New Year prayer in the decree and declare manner. It's not too late. Now is the time to listen to the word of Job who is God's prophet. Listen to the word of God and not the word of Eliphaz, that false prophet that told you to decree and declare when you don't have the power of the universe in your hands.

Sir, can you help me ask the holy spirit when Jesus will be back?

One more question on prayers!

Why did the father refuse to hear Jesus' prayer below:

[Jesus said,] I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one. . . . I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one—I in them and you in me— so that they may be brought to complete unity. (John 17:20–23)

And why can Christians never heed Paul's advice?

I appeal to you . . . that all of you agree with one another in what you say and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly united in mind and thought.(1 Corinthians 1:10)

what of Matthew 16:19 & Matthew 18:18

Really? Is it wrong if we decree and declare in the name of Jesus Christ? Job 22:28 is not wrongly used. I will show you why

Before you classify Job 22:28 as wrongly used, you should take note of the context, don't just single out a verse and say it is false. Eliphaz was counseling Job with the belief that Job's afflictions were as a result of his wrong standing with God and that God was punishing him but from the story of Job, we know this is not true. As you can see in the scriptures below


Job 22:5-10 (Eliphaz to Job)
Is not thy wickedness great? and thine iniquities infinite?
For thou hast taken a pledge from thy brother for nought, and stripped the naked of their clothing. Thou hast not given water to the weary to drink, and thou hast withholden bread from the hungry.
But as for the mighty man, he had the earth; and the honourable man dwelt in it.
Thou hast sent widows away empty, and the arms of the fatherless have been broken.
Therefore snares are round about thee, and sudden fear troubleth thee;

So Eliphaz was counseling Job to turn from his supposed wicked ways so that the Lord will restore him but the truth is that Job was a perfect and upright man and God allowed the afflictions to prove Job's standing with him.

Job 1:8-12
And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?
Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?
Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.
But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.
And the Lord said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the Lord.


From the same chapter 22 we can see Eliphaz say things that we cannot just categorize as false simply because it was said by Eliphaz. Can these sayings of Eliphaz be said to be wrong

Job 22:21-23
Acquaint now thyself with him, and be at peace: thereby good shall come unto thee.
Receive, I pray thee, the law from his mouth, and lay up his words in thine heart.
If thou return to the Almighty, thou shalt be built up, thou shalt put away iniquity far from thy tabernacles.

Job 22:27
Thou shalt make thy prayer unto him, and he shall hear thee, and thou shalt pay thy vows.

These verses can not be said to be wrong just as verse 28 because they were said by Eliphaz. As they can be backed up with other scriptures in the bible. Therefore, verse 28 is valid

Job 22:28
Thou shalt also decree a thing, and it shall be established unto thee: and the light shall shine upon thy ways.


So from chapter 22, the one thing that is clearly wrong is Eliphaz's stance on God in the afflictions that Job was facing. Eliphaz was wrong to suppose that Job was a sinner and was being punished by God

emae009:
what of Matthew 16:19 & Matthew 18:18

Verse passage, Jesus was talking to Peter, not you.


Matthew 16:18-19 King James Version (KJV)
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

The passage below speaks of action, not just word of mouth. The action brings immediate result. If the church agrees and says a brother is now an heathen, it becomes so and Heaven agrees too because a certain process is followed prior to that. This doesn't say you should declare that you are great when you are a pauper.

Mathew 18:15-18
Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

GoodBoi1:
Really? Is it wrong if we decree and declare in the name of Jesus Christ? Job 22:28 is not wrongly used. I will show you why

First and foremost, note that decree and declare is not a form of prayer because prayer involves mostly asking and thanking God. Jesus never taught us to decree and declare in his name. He only taught us to ASK in his name. See below for difference

decree and declare= I am great, 2020 is my year of success, double promotion for me, all around good health for me in the new year, no ups and downs will come my way etc.

Asking= God I pray you make the new year a good one for me. Please provide my daily bread. Protect me from evil. Bless my source of livelihood etc.

Can you see the difference? One is acting like he has the authority to make things however he wants. The other believes God is the source of all things and is depending on God for the things he desires.

Yes, both will end their words with "in Jesus name", but which of them sounds like the manner Jesus taught us to pray?

Matthew 6:9-13 (KJV)
9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
11 Give us this day our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

Note the difference between asking and decreeing.


Asking is to beg God for something. Decree and Declare is to speak it to be when God commandeth it not.

Lamentations 3:37
Who is he that saith, and it cometh to pass, when the Lord commandeth it not?

alBHAGDADI:


First and foremost, note that decree and declare is not a form of prayer because prayer involves mostly asking and thanking God. Jesus never taught us to decree and declare in his name. He only taught us to ASK in his name. See below for difference

decree and declare= I am great, 2020 is my year of success, double promotion for me, all around good health for me in the new year, no ups and downs will come my way etc.

Asking= God I pray you make the new year a good one for me. Please provide my daily bread. Protect me from evil. Bless my source of livelihood etc.

Can you see the difference? One is acting like he has the authority to make things however he wants. The other believes God is the source of all things and is depending on God for the things he desires.

Yes, both will end their words with "in Jesus name", but which of them sounds like the manner Jesus taught us to pray?

Matthew 6:9-13 (KJV)
9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
11 Give us this day our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

Note the difference between asking and decreeing.


Asking is to beg God for something. Decree and Declare is to speak it to be when God commandeth it not.

Lamentations 3:37
Who is he that saith, and it cometh to pass, when the Lord commandeth it not?

Whether you decree/declare or pray what matters is your faith in God. Decree and declaring doesn't mean I have not prayed, it is just an expression of the faith that has been built up through spiritual activities like prayer and studying God's word, in general spending time with God. Which results in strong conviction about the truth. You believe, therefore you speak. Faith and bold speaking go together and there are several scriptures to prove that. You can't be full of faith and it won't reflect in your speech. Will you call this asking or declaring the truth according to faith in God?

Acts 9:34
And Peter said unto him, Aeneas, Jesus Christ maketh thee whole: arise, and make thy bed. And he arose immediately

As you can see Peter, did not pray

GoodBoi1:

Whether you decree/declare or pray what matters is your faith in God. Decree and declaring doesn't mean I have not prayed, it is just an expression of the faith that has been built up through spiritual activities like prayer and studying God's word, in general spending time with God. Which results in strong conviction about the truth. You believe, therefore you speak. Faith and bold speaking go together and there are several scriptures to prove that. You can't be full of faith and it won't reflect in your speech. Will you call this asking or declaring the truth according to faith in God?

Acts 9:34
And Peter said unto him, Aeneas, Jesus Christ maketh thee whole: arise, and make thy bed. And he arose immediately

As you can see Peter, did not pray

If Peter didn't pray, what then did he mean by "Jesus make thee whole"?

Shouldn't he have just said "Aeneas, arise"?

He simply subjected it all to Jesus who could make Aneneas rise and walk. He never decreed and declared which is to subject it to his own power.

Stop mixing faith and decree/declare. Faith means faith on God, while decree and dear means faith in your ability to speak those things to being.

Below is an Eliphaz the Temanite teaching falsehood to steal money.

alBHAGDADI:


If Peter didn't pray, what then did he mean by "Jesus make thee whole"?

Shouldn't he have just said "Aeneas, arise"?

He simply subjected it all to Jesus who could make Aneneas rise and walk. He never decreed and declared which is to subject it to his own power.

Stop mixing faith and decree/declare. Faith means faith on God, while decree and dear means faith in your ability to speak those things to being.

Below is an Eliphaz the Temanite teaching falsehood to steal money.

If I have faith in God, therefore my speech must align with my faith in God. If I have prayed and recieved from God that 2020 is my year of greatness. Is it wrong if I go about declaring what I have received? You are trying to isolate declaring from faith but the truth is they go together.

1Cor. 4:13
We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;

Rom. 10:10
For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.



Peter had faith just like Jesus. Jesus said that his disciples would do what he did and even greater works.

John 14:12
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.


Do you know that Jesus didn't pray every time before he performs miracles. Why? Jesus Christ was full of great faith and power and he had authority.

John 5:8
Jesus said to him, “Get up, take up your bed, and walk.”

Therefore if Jesus said we would do as he did then that means we can decree and declare. About Peter "subjecting it all to Jesus", what if Peter didin't have much faith, do you think the the healing would take place? Take a look at the sons of sceva, they used the name of Jesus and even Paul yet they did not get the expected result

Acts 19:14-16
Seven sons of a Jewish high priest named Sceva were doing this. 1But the evil spirit answered them, “Jesus I know, and Paul I recognize, but who are you?” And the man in whom was the evil spirit leaped on them, mastered all[a] of them and overpowered them so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded.

Even from the above scriptures, you can see the evil spirit didn't just know Jesus but also Paul the apostle. Paul can also be likened to great men of God like Oyedepo and Adeboye. Just like any true Christian by virtue of their position they can decree things too but it is God that will have the final say.
If you have attended winners or watched any of their services, hardly will you hear Oyedepo make a prophetic declaration without concluding it with "in the name of Jesus Christ" to show faith in God.

GoodBoi1:

If I have faith in God, therefore my speech must align with my faith in God. If I have prayed and recieved from God that 2020 is my year of greatness. Is it wrong if I go about declaring what I have received? You are trying to isolate declaring from faith but the truth is they go together>

1Cor. 4:13
We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;

Rom. 10:10
For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.

@bold

Where did God tell you that 2020 is your year of greatness? Stop saying what God never said. All what God has for mankind are written in his word the Bible. Anyone coming to tell you of a new revelation e.g "God told me" is only fooling you. Examine what he said. If it doesn't go in line with the law and testimony in the Bible, then it is false and there is no light in such a person.

Isaiah 8:20 (KJV)
20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Even the verse in Corinthians which you quoted proves me right and you wrong. It says to have faith according to what is written in the Bible. Now, where is it written in the Bible that 2020 is your year of greatness? Why put faith on such?

The verse you quoted in Romans is talking about salvation, it doesn't support your decree and declare doctrine of fantasies.

Peter had faith just like Jesus. Jesus said that his disciples would do what he did and even greater works.

John 14:12
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.


Do you know that Jesus didn't pray every time before he performs miracles. Why? Jesus Christ was full of great faith and power and he had authority.

John 5:8
Jesus said to him, “Get up, take up your bed, and walk.”

Therefore if Jesus said we would do as he did then that means we can decree and declare. About Peter "subjecting it all to Jesus", what if Peter didin't have much faith, do you think the the healing would take place?

Once again, this has to do with what is written. Peter had faith according to what Jesus said. That's why he was able to do what he did. He had faith according to the written word, not fantasies. Why not go and declare that you are president and see if such will be answered by God. It won't because he never promised you that. Even with his promises, you have to depend on him by having faith in them, not going about declaring and decreeing.

Take a look at the sons of sceva, they used the name of Jesus and even Paul yet they did not get the expected result

Acts 19:14-16
Seven sons of a Jewish high priest named Sceva were doing this. 1But the evil spirit answered them, “Jesus I know, and Paul I recognize, but who are you?” And the man in whom was the evil spirit leaped on them, mastered all[a] of them and overpowered them so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded.

The Sons of Sceva didn't have faith in God. If they did, they won't have tried to cast out the demon with statement such as "We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth". It's the same thing with in the name of the God of Baba Adeboye.
It would have been "in the name of Jesus whom we have faith in".

Even from the above scriptures, you can see the evil spirit didn't just know Jesus but also Paul the apostle. Paul can also be likened to great men of God like Oyedepo and Adeboye. Just like any true Christian by virtue of their position they can decree things too but it is God that will have the final say.
If you have attended winners or watched any of their services, hardly will you hear Oyedepo make a prophetic declaration without concluding it with "in the name of Jesus Christ" to show faith in God.

Once again, Paul never taught anyone to cast out demons in his name. His name is powerless, likewise that of Adeboye and Oyedepo whom o consider fraudsters. The name we rely on is Jesus.

Philippians 2:9-11 (KJV)
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

If you like go and cast out demons in the name of Paul, Baba Adeboye or Oyedepo. Sorry na your name

Look at how Elijah prayed during his encounter with the prophets of Baal. Why didn't he just decree and declare fire to come down.

1 Kings 18:36-38
36 And it came to pass at the time of the offering of the evening sacrifice, that Elijah the prophet came near, and said, L ORD God of Abraham, Isaac, and of Israel, let it be known this day that thou art God in Israel, and that I am thy servant, and that I have done all these things at thy word.
37 Hear me, O L ORD , hear me, that this people may know that thou art the L ORD God, and that thou hast turned their heart back again.
38 Then the fire of the L ORD fell, and consumed the burnt sacrifice, and the wood, and the stones, and the dust, and licked up the water that was in the trench.

alBHAGDADI:


@bold

Where did God tell you that 2020 is your year of greatness? Stop saying what God never said. All what God has for mankind are written in his word the Bible. Anyone coming to tell you of a new revelation e.g "God told me" is only fooling you. Examine what he said. If it doesn't go in line with the law and testimony in the Bible, then it is false and there is no light in such a person.

Isaiah 8:20 (KJV)
20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Even the verse in Corinthians which you quoted proves me right and you wrong. It says to have faith according to what is written in the Bible. Now, where is it written in the Bible that 2020 is your year of greatness? Why put faith on such?

The verse you quoted in Romans is talking about salvation, it doesn't support your decree and declare doctrine of fantasies.




Once again, this has to do with what is written. Peter had faith according to what Jesus said. That's why he was able to do what he did. He had faith according to the written word, not fantasies. Why not go and declare that you are president and see if such will be answered by God. It won't because he never promised you that. Even with his promises, you have to depend on him by having faith in them, not going about declaring and decreeing.




The Sons of Sceva didn't have faith in God. If they did, they won't have tried to cast out the demon with statement such as "We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth". It's the same thing with in the name of the God of Baba Adeboye.
It would have been "in the name of Jesus whom we have faith in".



Once again, Paul never taught anyone to cast out demons in his name. His name is powerless, likewise that of Adeboye and Oyedepo whom o consider fraudsters. The name we rely on is Jesus.

Philippians 2:9-11 (KJV)
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

If you like go and cast out demons in the name of Paul, Baba Adeboye or Oyedepo. Sorry na your name

I never said anything about casting out demons in the names of Pastors. What I meant is that based on your walk with God you can be recognized by the kingdom of darkness just as Jesus is. Also it seems that you doubt the gift of prophecy, God's speaks through various ways. He can speak through his word also God can be SPECIFIC about situations through His servants on earth, He can speak through visions and dreams or anyway He deems fit. He is God and when He speaks then I should believe.
This is an instance of someone that doubted when "God told me" happened

2 Kings 7:1-2
Elisha replied, “Hear the word of the Lord. This is what the Lord says: About this time tomorrow, a seah[a] of the finest flour will sell for a shekel[b] and two seahs[c] of barley for a shekel at the gate of Samaria.”
The officer on whose arm the king was leaning said to the man of God, “Look, even if the Lord should open the floodgates of the heavens, could this happen?”
“You will see it with your own eyes,” answered Elisha, “but you will not eat any of it!”

I am not saying you will die, in case you misinterpret me, I am just giving an example like I gave in my previous post

Was there a Bible when God spoke to Elisha? That was a specific word about the situation. God still speaks today. Shalom.

GoodBoi1:


I never said anything about casting out demons in the names of Pastors. What I meant is that based on your walk with God you can be recognized by the kingdom of darkness just as Jesus is. Also it seems that you doubt the gift of prophecy, God's speaks through various ways. He can speak through his word also God can be SPECIFIC about situations through His servants on earth, He can speak through visions and dreams or anyway He deems fit. He is God and when He speaks then I should believe.
This is an instance of someone that doubted when "God told me" happened

2 Kings 7:1-2
Elisha replied, “Hear the word of the Lord. This is what the Lord says: About this time tomorrow, a seah[a] of the finest flour will sell for a shekel[b] and two seahs[c] of barley for a shekel at the gate of Samaria.”
The officer on whose arm the king was leaning said to the man of God, “Look, even if the Lord should open the floodgates of the heavens, could this happen?”
“You will see it with your own eyes,” answered Elisha, “but you will not eat any of it!”

I am not saying you will die, in case you misinterpret me, I am just giving an example like I gave in my previous post

Was there a Bible when God spoke to Elisha? That was a specific word about the situation. God still speaks today. Shalom.

Why do you like argument?

I repeat, any pastor or person that tells you he heard a NEW REVELATION from God apart from what is on the Bible is lying to you.

Isaiah 8:20 (KJV)
20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.[b]

GoodBoi1:


I never said anything about casting out demons in the names of Pastors. What I meant is that based on your walk with God you can be recognized by the kingdom of darkness just as Jesus is. Also it seems that you doubt the gift of prophecy, God's speaks through various ways. He can speak through his word also God can be SPECIFIC about situations through His servants on earth, He can speak through visions and dreams or anyway He deems fit. He is God and when He speaks then I should believe.
This is an instance of someone that doubted when "God told me" happened

2 Kings 7:1-2
Elisha replied, “Hear the word of the Lord. This is what the Lord says: About this time tomorrow, a seah[a] of the finest flour will sell for a shekel[b] and two seahs[c] of barley for a shekel at the gate of Samaria.”
The officer on whose arm the king was leaning said to the man of God, “Look, even if the Lord should open the floodgates of the heavens, could this happen?”
“You will see it with your own eyes,” answered Elisha, “but you will not eat any of it!”

I am not saying you will die, in case you misinterpret me, I am just giving an example like I gave in my previous post

Was there a Bible when God spoke to Elisha? That was a specific word about the situation. God still speaks today. Shalom.

Why do you like argument?

I repeat, any pastor or person that tells you he heard a NEW REVELATION from God apart from what is in the Bible is lying to you and there is no light in them but darkness. Example is "God told me", "I saw that you will get promoted" etc.

Isaiah 8:20 (KJV)
20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Your reference to Elijah. Are you comparing him to today's fraudsters who call themselves prophets? God spoke to the prophets of Old directly and sometimes through angels. Those things were recorded as the Bible and given to us to use as guide on how we should live today.


2 Timothy 3:16-17
[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God , and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
[17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

That's why we don't hear anything different from what he told his prophets of then. What we hear from God today is from the Bible and is what he told his prophets . No new revelation.

alBHAGDADI:


Why do you like argument?

I repeat, any pastor or person that tells you he heard a NEW REVELATION from God apart from what is on the Bible is lying to you.

Isaiah 8:20 (KJV)
20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.



Why do you like argument?

I repeat, any pastor or person that tells you he heard a NEW REVELATION from God apart from what is in the Bible is lying to you and there is no light in them but darkness. Example is "God told me", "I saw that you will get promoted" etc.

[b]Isaiah 8:20 (KJV)
20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Your reference to Elijah. Are you comparing him to today's fraudsters who call themselves prophets? God spoke to the prophets of Old directly and sometimes through angels. Those things were recorded as the Bible and given to us to use as guide on how we should live today.


2 Timothy 3:16-17
[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God , and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
[17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

That's why we don't hear anything different from what he told his prophets of then. What we hear from God today is from the Bible and is what he told his prophets . No new revelation.

So because of 2Tim 3:16-17 we should now neglect the gifts of the Spirit. As if the Spirit of the Lord did not come upon the prophets in the Old testament and they prophecies. It all makes sense now. I don't like arguments but I will not sit back and watch seeds of unbelief be sown into the hearts of believers. There were even prophets in the New testaments

Acts 21:10
Several days later a man named Agabus, who also had the gift of prophecy, arrived from Judea.
He came over, took Paul’s belt, and bound his own feet and hands with it. Then he said, “The Holy Spirit declares, ‘So shall the owner of this belt be bound by the Jewish leaders in Jerusalem and turned over to the Gentiles.’”

Like I said before God gives specific word to people concerning situations and I agree with you God's word aligns with the scriptures. What I means is that the word you receive from God does not contradict the scriptures because God is not an author of confusion. He still speaks and when He does, you will know it by the Holy Spirit. Let's not limit God.

So what if an Angel of the Lord appeared to me and told me that I will be great in 2020? Are you saying that something like this is impossible?

alBHAGDADI:


Verse passage, Jesus was talking to Peter, not you.


Matthew 16:18-19 King James Version (KJV)
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

The passage below speaks of action, not just word of mouth. The action brings immediate result. If the church agrees and says a brother is now an heathen, it becomes so and Heaven agrees too because a certain process is followed prior to that. This doesn't say you should declare that you are great when you are a pauper.

Mathew 18:15-18
Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Matthew 17:20

emae009:

Matthew 17:20

Read from verse 14 to 21 and pay attention to verse 21

GoodBoi1:


So because of 2Tim 3:16-17 we should now neglect the gifts of the Spirit. As if the Spirit of the Lord did not come upon the prophets in the Old testament and they prophecies. It all makes sense now. I don't like arguments but I will not sit back and watch seeds of unbelief be sown into the hearts of believers. There were even prophets in the New testaments

Acts 21:10
Several days later a man named Agabus, who also had the gift of prophecy, arrived from Judea.
He came over, took Paul’s belt, and bound his own feet and hands with it. Then he said, “The Holy Spirit declares, ‘So shall the owner of this belt be bound by the Jewish leaders in Jerusalem and turned over to the Gentiles.’”

Like I said before God gives specific word to people concerning situations and I agree with you God's word aligns with the scriptures. What I means is that the word you receive from God does not contradict the scriptures because God is not an author of confusion. He still speaks and when He does, you will know it by the Holy Spirit. Let's not limit God.

So what if an Angel of the Lord appeared to me and told me that I will be great in 2020? Are you saying that something like this is impossible?

Yes, there was gift of prophecies in the New Testament, that's cos everything was getting wrapped up then. God will never say anything new now because that would contradict what he already said in the Bible. Whatever you hear from him today must align with the Bible or else you didn't hear it from him but from demons.

What Agabus told Paul wasn't anything new because Jesus already told his disciples that they would be handed over to be killed. The Holy Spirit only told Agabus according to the words of Jesus. Guess what? That is exactly what Jesus said the Holy Spirit would do.

John 14:26 (KJV)
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

John 16:14 KJV
He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.


If anything should appear to you today and claim he's an angel of God, make sure you test to see if the light is in him. If he says 2020 is your year of greatness, tell him to show you from the word of God where God said so. If you both can't find, then such is a demon.

Isaiah 8:20 (KJV)
20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

alBHAGDADI:


Yes, there was gift of prophecies in the New Testament, that's cos everything was getting wrapped up then. God will never say anything new now because that would contradict what he already said in the Bible. Whatever you hear from him today must align with the Bible or else you didn't hear it from him but from demons.

What Agabus told Paul wasn't anything new because Jesus already told his disciples that they would be handed over to be killed. The Holy Spirit only told Agabus according to the words of Jesus. Guess what? That is exactly what Jesus said the Holy Spirit would do.

John 14:26 (KJV)
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

John 16:14 KJV
He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.


If anything should appear to you today and claim he's an angel of God, make sure you test to see if the light is in him. If he says 2020 is your year of greatness, tell him to show you from the word of God where God said so. If you both can't find, then such is a demon.

Isaiah 8:20 (KJV)
20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Funny enough I felt you would say something like this "there was gift of prophecies in the New Testament, that's cos everything was getting wrapped up then". Said who? God? I already know the scripture you will use to back up your claim, I'll wait. So should we say a gift that should serve in the body of Christ is "getting wrapped up"

[b] 1 Corinthians 12:12-27
Just as a body, though one, has many parts, but all its many parts form one body, so it is with Christ. 13 For we were all baptized by one Spirit so as to form one body—whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink. 14 Even so the body is not made up of one part but of many. 15 Now if the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body,” it would not for that reason stop being part of the body. 16 And if the ear should say, “Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body,” it would not for that reason stop being part of the body. 17 If the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing be? If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be? 18 But in fact God has placed the parts in the body, every one of them, just as he wanted them to be. 19 If they were all one part, where would the body be? 20 As it is, there are many parts, but one body. 21 The eye cannot say to the hand, “I don’t need you!” And the head cannot say to the feet, “I don’t need you!” 22 On the contrary, those parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, 23 and the parts that we think are less honorable we treat with special honor. And the parts that are unpresentable are treated with special modesty, 24 while our presentable parts need no special treatment. But God has put the body together, giving greater honor to the parts that lacked it, 25 so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other. 26 If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it. 27 Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it. 28 And God has placed in the church first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, of helping, of guidance, and of different kinds of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? 30 Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret? 31 Now eagerly desire the greater gifts. [/b]

No place did it say it would get "wrapped up". Please read the above scripture carefully because by saying it is getting wrapped up you are removing an eye or a leg any other body part from the body of Christ.

Let us not limit God.

GoodBoi1:

Funny enough I felt you would say something like this "there was gift of prophecies in the New Testament, that's cos everything was getting wrapped up then". Said who? God? I already know the scripture you will use to back up your claim, I'll wait. So should we say a gift that should serve in the body of Christ is "getting wrapped up"

[b] 1 Corinthians 12:12-27
Just as a body, though one, has many parts, but all its many parts form one body, so it is with Christ. 13 For we were all baptized by one Spirit so as to form one body—whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink. 14 Even so the body is not made up of one part but of many. 15 Now if the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body,” it would not for that reason stop being part of the body. 16 And if the ear should say, “Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body,” it would not for that reason stop being part of the body. 17 If the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing be? If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be? 18 But in fact God has placed the parts in the body, every one of them, just as he wanted them to be. 19 If they were all one part, where would the body be? 20 As it is, there are many parts, but one body. 21 The eye cannot say to the hand, “I don’t need you!” And the head cannot say to the feet, “I don’t need you!” 22 On the contrary, those parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, 23 and the parts that we think are less honorable we treat with special honor. And the parts that are unpresentable are treated with special modesty, 24 while our presentable parts need no special treatment. But God has put the body together, giving greater honor to the parts that lacked it, 25 so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other. 26 If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it. 27 Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it. 28 And God has placed in the church first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, of helping, of guidance, and of different kinds of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? 30 Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret? 31 Now eagerly desire the greater gifts. [/b]

No place did it say it would get "wrapped up". Please read the above scripture carefully because by saying it is getting wrapped up you are removing an eye or a leg any other body part from the body of Christ.

Let us not limit God.

You like argument. Didn't I just show you that prophecy has to align with the word of God? Did Agabus say something contrary to what Jesus said will happen? It means his prophecy aligned with the word of Jesus.

Clearly, any prophecy today have to be in line with God's word in the Bible because God is not giving any new revelation. So, the prophecies in the church today are still same as of old because they must never contradict the Bible.

Isaiah 8:20 (KJV)
20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

That's why all these 2020 prophecies are all lies, which explains why they are never accurately and precisely stated and never happen.

If you tell me the reign of the wicked in the world will end one day, I will be believe because it goes in line with the Bible. This is Church prophecy.

But if you tell me it will end on February 18, then you have lied because God never recorded such in his word. This is the basis of the lies we hear today where a white garment church priest of suit-wearing pastor will say "God told me that danger is coming your way from your mother's family".

I understand your point but you seem to be misinterpreting me or other believers. If God tells me that 2020 is my year of greatness, it is not because of 2020 or February 18th or any other date even though God works with times and seasons as seen in the bible , but it is because He is God and He can do what He wants, anytime He wants. Not that the bible says anything about 2020 being a special year but God just wants to bless me abundantly and it is going to be this year. So what is wrong if I go about saying 2020 is my year of greatness if the Lord told me so. He said He will have mercy on whom He will have mercy . Our faith is not in the year 2020 or any time or date but it is in God. It is well. I have more to say but I will stop here and I believe any believer reading this will be able to discern the truth and not lose faith in God or limit Him despite proving Himself time and time again. Shalom.

Please don't quote me

Good morning

alBHAGDADI:


Verse passage, Jesus was talking to Peter, not you.


Matthew 16:18-19 King James Version (KJV)
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

The passage below speaks of action, not just word of mouth. The action brings immediate result. If the church agrees and says a brother is now an heathen, it becomes so and Heaven agrees too because a certain process is followed prior to that. This doesn't say you should declare that you are great when you are a pauper.

Mathew 18:15-18
Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

How about the binding and loosing part of this scripture you just quoted

-Mathew 15:18

alBHAGDADI:


If Peter didn't pray, what then did he mean by "Jesus make thee whole"?

Shouldn't he have just said "Aeneas, arise"?

He simply subjected it all to Jesus who could make Aneneas rise and walk. He never decreed and declared which is to subject it to his own power.

Stop mixing faith and decree/declare. Faith means faith on God, while decree and dear means faith in your ability to speak those things to being.

Below is an Eliphaz the Temanite teaching falsehood to steal money.

How about " Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk." - Acts 3:6? Isn't this declarative enough?

AntiChristian:
Sir, can you help me ask the holy spirit when Jesus will be back?

One more question on prayers!

Why did the father refuse to hear Jesus' prayer below:

[Jesus said,] I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one. . . . I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one—I in them and you in me— so that they may be brought to complete unity. (John 17:20–23)

And why can Christians never heed Paul's advice?

I appeal to you . . . that all of you agree with one another in what you say and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly united in mind and thought.(1 Corinthians 1:10)

Do you know why Paul had to write many letter to different churches in his epistles?
The had different level of maturity and with that can varying understanding and therefore doctrines.

Standing5:
Do you know why Paul had to write many letter to different churches in his epistles?
The had different level of maturity and with that can varying understanding and therefore doctrines.

Jesus during his life time forgot to create a church. It was after he left that he had to send a 13th disciple on Paul.

Did the 12 or (11) main disciples failed?

Or did Jesus made a mistake in the selection of his disciples?

alBHAGDADI:


Verse passage, Jesus was talking to Peter, not you.


Matthew 16:18-19 King James Version (KJV)
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

The passage below speaks of action, not just word of mouth. The action brings immediate result. If the church agrees and says a brother is now an heathen, it becomes so and Heaven agrees too because a certain process is followed prior to that. This doesn't say you should declare that you are great when you are a pauper.

Mathew 18:15-18
Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

If I should interpret the bible the way you have done then all scriptures isn't for me because they were given in the context of talking to someone I am not or groups I wasn't part of.

AntiChristian:


Jesus during his life time forgot to create a church. It was after he left that he had to send a 13th disciple on Paul.

Did the 12 or (11) main disciples failed?

Or did Jesus made a mistake in the selection of his disciples?

It is funny how you guys try to discredit scripture given by the Holy Spirit in a bid to win arguments at all cost. Did Jesus tell you he is interested in names of churches and denominations?
What I know Jesus wants is love above all, then followed by uniformity in doctrines as a result of love.

Standing5:

It is funny how you guys try to discredit scripture given by the Holy Spirit in a bid to win arguments at all cost. Did Jesus tell you he is interested in names of churches and denominations?
What I know Jesus wants is love above all, then followed by uniformity in doctrines as a result of love.

So you still believe your scriptures was given by the holy spirit?



Which scriptures?

And that uniformity you claim Jesus wants is only a wish that will never come to pass!

Catholics will keep on genuflecting and bowing to graven images!

All other denominations will keep on with their own doctrines!

And the debate will continue whether tithes, etc is biblical!

Even the name "Jesus" is debatable!

seriously?
yea

AntiChristian:


So you still believe your scriptures was given by the holy spirit?



Which scriptures?

And that uniformity you claim Jesus wants is only a wish that will never come to pass!

Catholics will keep on genuflecting and bowing to graven images!

All other denominations will keep on with their own doctrines!

And the debate will continue whether tithes, etc is biblical!

Even the name "Jesus" is debatable!

One thing for sure is that the truth will definitely show up one day

Keep blasphemy the Holyspirit..

I pray it will not be too late..

Because most people will later realized the truth after death..

God never said that in Job 22... man made that up