The comment below was one of the responses from the 2019/2020 NNPC thread and it appeared to have initiated a debate that could possibly derail the thread, so I am responding to it here. The entire premise of the poster's argument is based on that a divine being known by most to be God exists and so I think it would be most appropriate to first of all address the validity of the premise before engaging the comment properly.

1. Is there any objective proof that a being created the universe? What is it?

2. Every proponent of the "God exists theory" believes so based on what they heard or read. Never based on real proof. Why should I believe that the events about God in the bible or koran is true?

3. Why is there no objective proof of miracles in this era of civilisation as it were in the era of Jesus christ and Moses?

4. There is a very great conflict between all the gods of all the religion with each claiming their God is superior. Given that the conflict in all religion is caused by "uncertainity", wouldn't it be more efficient for God to reveal himself (or atleast with objective proof like how he established himself through elijah) physically as the true God?

5. Anyone that does not serve God will go to hell. How can we reconcile this with the concept of "free will"?

6. Allah, Jehovah, Zeus, Santa etc are gods of some of the most popular religions but one thing that they all have in common is the ability to hide themselves from their subjects, leaving them confused and at the mercy of trial by error. Why is this so? It looks like the gods or God enjoy the misery men face in trying to find which of them is the authentic god.

7. Let's assume that God exists. What makes him sure that there is no other God existing in another dimension and hiding as he (current God) is doing from humanity? If God does not believe thet there is no other God besides him, does that not ultimately make God an athiest?

8. Why is God very good at "healing" diseases and anomalies that are mostly internal and not physically obvious like barreness, stomach pain, blood diseases etc. but is very bad at external ones like cuts, wounds, amputations, burns etc.? Hospitals have documented evidences of medical procedures that solved people's health problems. Is there any documented evidence of any of Gods miracles for us to watch? There are atleast a million purported cases of miracles from God but zero verifiable and documented evidence. Why? Why don't pastors or christians heal the sick found in hospitals and on the streets like Jesus did?

9. The wages of sin is death. Death according to christianity means eternal torment in hell fire. My question is does 1 billion years of torture in fire for stealing, killing etc. resonate with the concept of God being just, merciful and loving?

10. Why is there no clear pathway in approaching the things of God? Why are there more unanswered prayers than "answered" ones? For instance, is Boko Haram stronger than the prayers made by all the christians in Nigeria and the world at large?

GeniusOla:


Good point, however it is what we have reduced Christianity into, the Ethiopean eunuch who was in charge of all the treasure of the candace queen of ethiopia at that time, still needed a philip's explanation of scriptures. It is a big error to reduce Christianity to getting things. Jesus' birth in itself is a lesson, born in a manger, son of a carpenter, his goal wasn't to overthrow the jewish government at that time, the rich and noble was in his audience but he never gave them preference, he came solely for the problem of sin ( this has singular application to the rich or poor, elite or ignorant, civilised or uncivilized). If you like, live in atlanta Georgia for 40 years, you won't outgrow sin, you won't outgrow the supernatural. After the draugth peter caught, jesus told him "follow me" (theres something more important than catching fishes i want to show you), catching men! (the sin problem). Christainity is "man focused" not "things focused" (you don't need, love, patience, gentleness, temperance, meekness for things but men). God's will for you is not to become the Richest man alive(an atheist can become that) but that you grow selfless enough to lay down your life for the salvation of another (the sin problem). Its good to have money and the good things of life, but it shouldn't be priority, "the things of earth stood next to him, like a candle to the sun" (hillsong). Don't reduce Christianity to solely getting things men can get by alternatives. Its far far beyond... I will stop here. (Forgive my long post)

Caveat:
This is purely an intellectual exercise. There is no intent to mock anyone. It would be greatly appreciated if this thread is treated as such with minimum religious or ethnic sentiments.

Cc: Seun, OAM4J, mynd44

Jj

Front seat booked.

Good move Nuisancepolice. I'm atheist and I like this discussion.

hopefulLandlord
johnydon22
CAPSLOCKED
HardMirror
Hakeem
Martinez

Lol.. this conversation again... Lemme coman be going

I am waiting...

Perhaps lalasticlala would like to chip in

The proponents of a particular religion find it very easy to dismiss the religions of others as made up(and they are correct) but it is very difficult for them to see that theirs is made up. It's an irony caused by indoctrination.

Most Christians in Nigeria today, if they were born somewhere in the middle east, there is a high chance that they'll be muslims. It is as simple as that.

The origin and fate of the universe(and its content, earth inclusive) as contained in various religions book should be discarded as the horizon of reasoning of early men and can not stand in the light of modern knowledge.

Also the miracles contained in the various religious book, eg. Those purportedly executed by Jesus in the bible have not been replicated in a controlled and monitored environment. All efforts to do so have either being based on tricky or resulted in failure.

Stories abound of steadfast believers attempting to handle deadline snakes and animals according to the bible have only resulted in them being injured or redering them dead.

Miracles of the dead being raised have ALL being observed to be made up using clever implementations to trick unsuspecting followers. The same goes for healing the sick. The list goes on.

Mitocyan:
The proponents of a particular religion find it very easy to dismiss the religions of others as made up(and they are correct) but it is very difficult for them to see that theirs is made up. It's an irony caused by indoctrination.

Most Christians in Nigeria today, if they were born somewhere in the middle east, there is a high chance that they'll be muslims. It is as simple as that.

The origin and fate of the universe(and its content, earth inclusive) as contained in various religions book should be discarded as the horizon of reasoning of early men and can not stand in the light of modern knowledge.

Also the miracles contained in the various religious book, eg. Those purportedly executed by Jesus in the bible have not been replicated in a controlled and monitored environment. All efforts to do so have either being based on tricky or resulted in failure.

Stories abound of steadfast believers attempting to handle deadline snakes and animals according to the bible have only resulted in them being injured or redering them dead.

Miracles of the dead being raised have ALL being observed to be made up using clever implementations to trick unsuspecting followers. The same goes for healing the sick. The list goes on.

The bolded is a fact. And God would have thrown them in hell should at the end of days, christianity is discovered to be the correct religion.

If one doesn't believe in God, what belief does such have.
One must believe in sth, I want to know what it is?

I think there should be a disclaimer in this thread that this is just a purely Intellectual exercise. Nothing here is meant as 'hate', to hurt, or infringe on anyone's belief. Everyone is entitled to what they believe. Please we should make sure to use 'appropriate' words and cosider the other ('person's) when we make comments.

pes2019:
If one doesn't believe in God, what belief does such have.
One must believe in sth, I want to know what it is?

I believe in the big bang, evolution, quantum mechanics and relativity.

I believe in things that are real. God is not real.

Mikhail1:
I think there should be a disclaimer in this thread that this is just a purely Intellectual exercise. Nothing here is meant as 'hate', to hurt, or infringe on anyone's belief. Everyone is entitled to what they believe. Please we should make sure to use 'appropriate' words and cosider the other ('person's) when we make comments.

I agree. I will update accordingly.

NuissancePolice:


I believe in the big bang, evolution, quantum mechanics and relativity.

I believe in things that are real. God is not real.

It is as simple as that. I don't understand why someone will come and belive in something I have not experienced ever. Nothing more than an hypothesis that has no logical basis. All because someone told someone that told someone to tell him. Smh

pes2019:
If one doesn't believe in God, what belief does such have.
One must believe in sth, I want to know what it is?

Why must one believe in something. What if someone came to you today and tells you to believe in superman, won't you ask him "on what basis?" Like why must you belive in superman or any super hero at all for that matter since they are just stories that have no real life basis. That is essentially how we see being forced to belive in God or any religion for that matter.

NuissancePolice:


I believe in the big bang, evolution, quantum mechanics and relativity.

I believe in things that are real. God is not real.

Sir let the discussion be on common real things.

Is water real
Is air real

Note: we are conversant with d above

Another thing Christians and people of all other religion need to realize today is that there are so many concepts in their holy books that are borrowed from ancient religions that were in existence before theirs. Even crucial as the birth of Jesus. There was the sun god whose birth story is in close resemblance to the birth of Jesus. And these manuscripts date back before the birth of Jesus. It shouldn't come to you as a surprise that your long held believes were all made up from past stories and white wash to foster wide acceptance.

pes2019:


Sir let the discussion be on common real things.

Is water real
Is air real

Note: we are conversant with d above

Water is real because if we don't drink water for a month, we would die. Air, though we can't see it is very much real same with infrared Ray's but they are very much testable in the laboratory and their properties determined. The person that first hypothesized their existence came up with testable facts unlike the person that first introduced us to our various religions. He stated the concepts of the religion with no testable facts to support but expects us to "just believe" so there is a huge difference.

Mitocyan:
Good move Nuisancepolice. I'm atheist and I like this discussion.

Shake hand

Eagleboney:
Shake hand

I shake you too bro. Confirm

Mitocyan:

Water is real because if we don't drink water for a month, we would die. Air, though we can't see it is very much real same with infrared Ray's but they are very much testable in the laboratory and their properties determined. The person that first hypothesized their existence came up with testable facts unlike the person that first introduced us to our various religions. He stated the concepts of the religion with no testable facts to support but expects us to "just believe" so there is a huge difference.

Don't be offended

Between man and water, which one exist first also
Between man and air


Have this in mind while answering those questions.
equipments were created to carry those test of reality

NuissancePolice:


I believe in the big bang, evolution, quantum mechanics and relativity.

I believe in things that are real. God is not real.

U don't believe that there is God,one of the Greatest scientist Charles Darwin believed God existing

NuissancePolice:


I believe in the big bang, evolution, quantum mechanics and relativity.

I believe in things that are real. God is not real.

U don't believe that there is God,one of the Greatest scientist Charles Darwin believed God exist

pes2019:



Don't be offended

Between man and water, which one exist first also
Between man and air


Have this in mind while answering those questions.
equipments were created to carry those test of reality

Lol it is commonsenical to note that water existed before man. No, I am not offended. Intellectual discussions like this give me cerebral orgasm coupled with the paucity of people available to discuss them with in my day to day.

Eagleboney:
U don't believe that there is God,one of the Greatest scientist Charles Darwin believed God existing

Lol it doesn't matter. Even Isaac Newton Belived there was God. But it is on records today that over 90% of members of academy of science are atheists. And we are both sure that they are more knowledgeable than Charles Darwin and Isaac Newton because knowledge evolves. Admittedly they haven't had as much impact as these two.

I have an astronomy video, the astronaut was videoing how angels were flying across the surface of the earth with the speed of light. I tried looking for the video on YouTube but it has been deleted. Seeing those angels flying gives me that much believe that God exists.

Mitocyan:

Lol it doesn't matter. Even Isaac Newton Belived there was God. But it is on records today that over 90% of members of academy of science are atheists. And we are both sure that they are more knowledgeable than Charles Darwin and Isaac Newton because knowledge evolves. Admittedly they haven't had as much impact as these two.

Bro ,probably God exists ,people are just anxious to see him one on one before they believe

Mitocyan:

Lol it is commonsenical to note that water existed before man. No, I am not offended. Intellectual discussions like this give me cerebral orgasm coupled with the paucity of people available to discuss them with in my day to day.

You are carrying out test of existence, without knowing it source or origin.

Death is a reality, have you tested it.


Note: Try to find out the source, that's the difference

Eagleboney:
Bro ,probably God exists ,people are just anxious to see him one on one before they believe

Lol why do you use probably? What if I told you "probably superman exists" won't you ask me, "on what basis?", "have you seen superman before?" and so many other questions.

pes2019:


You are carrying out test of existence, without knowing it source or origin.

Death is a reality, have you tested it.


Note: Try to find out the source, that's the difference

I see people die everyday and you still ask me if I have tested it? Does one need to fall in front of a moving vehicle before he understands that it capable of causing grievous harm?

OKOATA:
I have an astronomy video, the astronaut was videoing how angels were flying across the surface of the earth with the speed of light. I tried looking for the video on YouTube but it has been deleted. Seeing those angels flying gives me that much believe that God exists.

Hahaha, this is sarcasm right? Even 5 year old kids around here would feel this is a scene from a movie and not real life.

Eagleboney:
U don't believe that there is God,one of the Greatest scientist Charles Darwin believed God exist

The bolded is a classic example of the Fallacy of Relevance. Appealing to authority to support your argument won't change the position of the fact.