In John 3, Jesus said 'except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God'.

Now, there is the incident recounted in Mark 12 where a scribe asked Jesus what was the most important commandment. As we know, Jesus answered him that the Lord God is one, love the Lord with all your heart etc and love your neighbour as yourself. When the man agreed with Jesus he said, "Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he: 33And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices."

Now where I'm going is this: Mark 12:34

Now when Jesus saw that he answered wisely, He said to him, "You are not far from the kingdom of God."

Therefore, anyone who believes the Lord God is one and that it is correct that the greatest law is to love God and to love one's neighbour is "not far from the kingdom of God."

Question: what is left to move beyond just not being far from the kingdom of God and to actually reach/see it?

Edited: it is an indirect question about being "born again" of course ----- because otherwise the question is completely answered by the very first line.

^^To add a similar encounter:

And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth. Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me. [Mark 10:20-21]

Question: what is left to move beyond just not being far from the kingdom of God and to actually reach/see it?

  If belief is the first step, then perhaps all that's left is to actually do it? That is prove your belief by putting it into action?

So MISITER Enigma, are you loving your neighbour, with all these personal attacks and name callings that you guys enjoy to do?

James 3:10-15
10 Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be. 11 Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet[ water] and bitter? 12 Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so[ can] no fountain both yield salt water and fresh. 13 Who[ is] a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom. 14 But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth. 15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but[ is] earthly, sensual, devilish.

^^^Look Joagbaje, you may be able to fool a lot of people but I (and many others) know your game.

Anyway, the people that we call names are the same kind of people that Jesus also called names, that the apostle Peter also called names, that the apostle Paul also called names and that virtually each book of the New Testament teaches us to be vigilant about as they come inside the church with poison to damage the church from inside.

So, tell Jesus, Peter, Paul etc that they did not love their neighbour.

Senor Jo is quoting baby James ke? Is this a sign of homility or what? I thought he'd quote the most rev. Chris. Ph.D, M.Sc, B.Bc, A.It

Back on topic: actually the point that both Jesoul and aletheia made is ultimately the same if with distinguishable shades of emphases and I agree with both.

Firstly, one must not only believe in loving God and neighbour, one must also do it; secondly 'doing it' involves sacrifices especially taking up one's cross to follow Jesus. In Matthew 12:50, Jesus said 'whoever does the will of my father in heaven is my brother, sister and mother'; earlier in Matthew 7:21 he said "Not everyone who says to Me, "Lord, Lord," shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven." To complement that, the apostle James, the Lord's brother, also said in James 1:22 "But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves." And he is of course famous for requiring believers to show their faith through their works.

These kind of passages help us to contextualise "saving faith"; of course the first thing is that Christians believe in the One God through faith in Jesus Christ and His redeeming work; but the point is that it is a faith that is genuine and anchored on obedience and followership of "the word" and the Word, of Jesus Himself and of Jesus' teaching. For us Christians, we have it relatively easy and educated Christians with the right heart and right reasons for believing have it easier still. For then, really if the heart truly understands Jesus' teachings, it will be easier to spot false and misleading doctrine; it also places a big responsibility on the well informed Christian to educate others, in fact it is a clear biblical duty, so as to help them not to be led astray.

The second point, one must take up his cross; Jesus never promised that following Him in the course of our earthly lives would be easy; none of the apostles ever promised that being a Christian would be a bed of roses; Jesus never promised that being a Christian will lead one to material/financial prosperity (indeed it could do the reverse to you; remember the chap told to go and sell all he had before even coming to follow Jesus?); the apostles did not promise financial/material prosperity; Jesus did not promise literal houses etc on earth (and I'm aware of 'no one who has left houses, mother, brother etc')

Now, I touch on a point slightly more controversial: I think even some ostensible non Christians are covered in the foregoing i.e. people who believe in God, love God and neighbour and try to live their lives in accordance with the principles flowing therefrom because they believe in and love God[/i] perhaps not having heard of Christ or perhaps genuinely not knowing that Christ is God. We may borrow a phrase and refer to them as being part of the "invisible church"; in this connection I'm usually reminded of Jesus saying -

And I have other sheep, that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will heed my voice. So there shall be one flock, one shepherd.

One more slightly controversial point, I believe that anyone who takes time to understand what Jesus taught would be wary of the prosperity gospel, would be wary of "easy believism", would be wary of "decisionism", would be wary of the pop gospel" which is all around us. It is the duty of the better informed Christians to keep educating others and to keep challenging the doctrine of the false teachers. However, we need to learn to be far far more wary regarding strategy for combatting false doctrine; we need to heed the extremely astute words "be gentle like doves and wise as serpents". My realisation is that we need to choose more carefully when to go on the offensive in defending the gospel; perhaps we should do it less but without fear or mincing words when we need to do it; but more importantly perhaps the gentle as doves bit requires us to be more patient when explaining to genuine seekers (mockers don't necessarily command that patience),

@enigma.

Enigma:

Anyway, the people that we call names are the same kind of people that Jesus also called names, that the apostle Peter also called names, that the apostle Paul also called names and that virtually each book of the New Testament teaches us to be vigilant about as they come inside the church with poison to damage the church from inside.
So, tell Jesus, Peter, Paul etc that they did not love their neighbour.

That is just hypocritical, you can't be preaching love and walking in hatred and condemnation. It takes an anointed man to rebuke or correct an anointed man. Jesus was an apostle , Peter was an apostle, Paul was an apostle. Who are you? Even demons recognise the difference.

Did Jesus give you such assignment?  To do verbal attacks against ministers. Where is it in your bible?

Romans 14:4
4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

Joagbaje:

@enigma.

That is just hypocritical, you can't be preaching love and walking in hatred and condemnation. It takes an anointed man to rebuke or correct an anointed man. Jesus was an apostle , Peter was an apostle, Paul was an apostle. Who are you? Even demons recognise the difference.

Did Jesus give you such assignment? To do verbal attacks against ministers. Where is it in your bible?

Joagbaje as far as I can tell, no one here hates you. They may not like the things you say, and your obfuscation of the gospel but no one hates you. Even Jesus said, 'as many as I love, I rebuke and chasten'. Criticism is not hatred. It is often an expression of love.

And furthermore, every christian is an anointed man.

Joagbaje:

@enigma.
. . .   To do verbal attacks against ministers. Where is it in your bible?

The same place where you find your authorisation to call 'ministers' "spiritual vagabonds".  

Pastor AIO:

Joagbaje as far as I can tell, no one here hates you.

I'm not talking about attacks against me, you must not see things my way. that's ok.

They may not like the things you say, and your obfuscation of the gospel but no one hates you. Even Jesus said, 'as many as I love, I rebuke and chasten'. Criticism is not hatred. It is often an expression of love.
And furthermore, every christian is an anointed man.

Explain my obfuscation of the gospel pls. Because to many people ,I bring the gospel to light in my posts. So if there are issues you're not clear with , simply bring it up. If I'm wrong I will accept.

Enigma:

The same place where you find your authorisation to call 'ministers' "spiritual vagabonds".  

A spiritual vagabond is a man who doesn't have a church. I never called any minister a vagabond.

this thread is the best i have ever seen here then joabagaje had to come and spoil it

Joagbaje:

A spiritual vagabond is a man who doesn't have a church. I never called any minister a vagabond.

Several times, you called Christians "spiritual vagabonds"; Christians are ministers; therefore you called ministers "spiritual vagabonds"!

cogicero:

this thread is the best i have ever seen here then joabagaje had to come and spoil it

Indeed, it is a pity.

cogicero:

this thread is the best i have ever seen here then joabagaje had to come and spoil it

Nothing is spoil , we are only trashing some inconsistencies. If you preach love, you should walk in love. That's my point.

Image123

Image123:

Senor Jo is quoting baby James ke? Is this a sign of homility or what? I thought he'd quote the most rev. Chris. Ph.D, M.Sc, B.Bc, A.It

James is a man of God, I never denied that, I only Pointed areas where his teachings had not been consistent with other body of truth that's all. And each time I emphasised that James had great spiritual principles. He was renowned for high moral teaching among the early apostles , they even gave him a Nick name .

^^^ 

Joagbaje:

Image123
James is a man of God, I never denied that, I only Pointed areas where his teachings had not been consistent with other body of truth that's all. And each time I emphasised that James had great spiritual principles. He was renowned for high moral teaching among the early apostles , they even gave him a Nick name .

What does Jo know about being 'consistent with other body of truth'? Na you give James nickname na? Are you not the same person that was saying here last week that there's no space/place for your pastor in Heaven? At least, James get space for there na. Don't worry, don't let us 'spoil this thread' ehn Joagbaje, forget it.

Image123:

Are you not the same person that was saying here last week that there's no space/place for your pastor in Heaven? At least, James get space for there na.

Where did I say such nonsense?

Joagbaje:

A spiritual vagabond is a man who doesn't have a church. I never called any minister a vagabond.

You've called me that several times Jo, but no sweat Chris Oyakhilome shares the same status with me' at least you confirmed that

SirJohn:

You've called me that several times Jo, but no sweat Chris Oyakhilome shares the same status with me' at least you confirmed that

I'm not aware you're minister, I would offer open apology if you are.

Joagbaje:

I'm not aware you're minister, I would offer open apology if you are.

Keep your apologies Jo, like I said Oyaks belongs to the same league so I'm not alone

The very message of the Gospel itself, it's keyphrase used by the disciples, by Jesus himself, and by John is . . .

Repent, for the Kingdom of Heaven is at Hand.

ie. it is very accessible to us now. we are not far from it. So what is it that stops us from entering into the kingdom? What exactly is the Kingdom and what does it mean to be a part of the kingdom?

Jesus explains it at great length through a number of parables. Check out Matthew from around the 13th chapter.

In the first parable of the sower Jesus describes some key things that block us from cultivating the Logos within us. The Logos is described as a seed.

18Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower. 19When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it no[/b]t, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side. 20But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it; 21Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while:[b] for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended. 22He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful. 23But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

MATT 13


Jesus here articulates 3 things that block us from entering into the kingdom. Or letting the seed of the kingdom blossom in us.

1) Lack of understanding

2)Trials and persecutions, which will come inevitably.

3) The deceitfulness of Riches. Care for material things.

@pastorAIO
Thanx for the above post. Futher evidence that prosperity gospel is from the darkest pits of hell and those preaching it are actually agents of the devil using "deceitfulness of riches" to lead souls to eternal damnation.

Question:

In places like John 3, Mark 4, Jesus referred to the 'kingdom of God' while in places like Matt 13, 20 there is reference to the 'kingdom of heaven'.

Is there a difference between the two or are they one and the same?

[

b]Jesus was an apostle [/b]

Pastor Joe!!! where did you read this ?That our almighty God and Saviour is an ordinary apostle? Apostle of what if I may ask

eyzhvntsn:

Question:

In places like John 3, Mark 4, Jesus referred to the 'kingdom of God' while in places like Matt 13, 20 there is reference to the 'kingdom of heaven'.

Is there a difference between the two or are they one and the same?

The Kingdom of God (Greek: βασιλεία τοῦ θεοῦ, Basileia tou Theou[1]) or Kingdom of Heaven (Hebrew: מלכות השמים‎, Malkuth haShamayim; Greek: Βασιλεία τῶν Ουρανῶν, Basileia tōn Ouranōn) is a foundational concept in the Abrahamic religions: Judaism, Christianity and Islam. According to Jesus, the Kingdom of God is within (or among) people,[Lk 17:20-21] is approached through understanding[Mk 12:34] and entered through acceptance like a child,[Mk 10:15] spiritual rebirth,[Jn 3:5] and doing the will of God.[Mt 7:21] It is a kingdom that will be inherited by the righteous[1Cor 6:9] and is not the only kingdom.[Lk. 11:18]
The phrase, "Kingdom of God," is found in the Gospel of Mark, the Gospel of Luke, and the Gospel of John, with "echoes in Paul, despite the fact that the "Kingdom of God" is not Paul's preferred way of speaking." The phrase is also found in various writing styles such as parable, beatitude, prayer, miracle story and aphorism.[2] The Gospel of Matthew usually does not use the phrase "Kingdom of God," but uses "kingdom of heaven," perhaps because the author of the Gospel of Matthew did not wish to offend Jewish people in the Jesus Movement of the early church.[3]

In the synoptic Gospels, Mark and Luke use the Greek term "Basileia tou Theou", commonly translated in English as "Kingdom of God." Matthew, on the other hand, employs the Greek term "Basileia tōn Ouranōn" (Βασιλεία τῶν Ουρανῶν),[Mt 13:45] which is translated as "Kingdom of Heaven" 31 times and "Kingdom of God" only 6 times, with "the Kingdom" with no qualifier appearing a further ten, and "in my Father's kingdom" once. Some Biblical scholars[who?] speculate that the Matthean text adopted the Greek word for "heaven" instead of the Greek word for "God" because, unlike Mark and Luke, it was written by a Jew for a Jewish audience. It was the Jewish practice to avoid using God's name as an act of piety. In Matthew, "heaven" stands for "God."[5][6]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_God

The basic idea is that Matthew being Jewish is hesitant to call the name of God in vain. So he prefers to use heaven instead.

Enigma:

Back on topic: actually the point that both Jesoul and aletheia made is ultimately the same if with distinguishable shades of emphases and I agree with both.

Firstly, one must not only believe in loving God and neighbour, one must also do it; secondly 'doing it' involves sacrifices especially taking up one's cross to follow Jesus. In Matthew 12:50, Jesus said 'whoever does the will of my father in heaven is my brother, sister and mother'; earlier in Matthew 7:21 he said "Not everyone who says to Me, "Lord, Lord," shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven." To complement that, the apostle James, the Lord's brother, also said in James 1:22 "But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves." And he is of course famous for requiring believers to show their faith through their works.

These kind of passages help us to contextualise "saving faith"; of course the first thing is that Christians believe in the One God through faith in Jesus Christ and His redeeming work; but the point is that it is a faith that is genuine and anchored on obedience and followership of "the word" and the Word, of Jesus Himself and of Jesus' teaching. For us Christians, we have it relatively easy and educated Christians with the right heart and right reasons for believing have it easier still. For then, really if the heart truly understands Jesus' teachings, it will be easier to spot false and misleading doctrine; it also places a big responsibility on the well informed Christian to educate others, in fact it is a clear biblical duty, so as to help them not to be led astray.

The second point, one must take up his cross; Jesus never promised that following Him in the course of our earthly lives would be easy; none of the apostles ever promised that being a Christian would be a bed of roses; Jesus never promised that being a Christian will lead one to material/financial prosperity (indeed it could do the reverse to you; remember the chap told to go and sell all he had before even coming to follow Jesus?); the apostles did not promise financial/material prosperity; Jesus did not promise literal houses etc on earth (and I'm aware of 'no one who has left houses, mother, brother etc')

Now, I touch on a point slightly more controversial: I think even some ostensible non Christians are covered in the foregoing i.e. people who believe in God, love God and neighbour and try to live their lives in accordance with the principles flowing therefrom because they believe in and love God[/i] perhaps not having heard of Christ or perhaps genuinely not knowing that Christ is God. We may borrow a phrase and refer to them as being part of the "invisible church"; in this connection I'm usually reminded of Jesus saying -
One more slightly controversial point, I believe that anyone who takes time to understand what Jesus taught would be wary of the prosperity gospel, would be wary of "easy believism", would be wary of "decisionism", would be wary of the pop gospel" which is all around us. It is the duty of the better informed Christians to keep educating others and to keep challenging the doctrine of the false teachers. However, we need to learn to be far far more wary regarding strategy for combatting false doctrine; we need to heed the extremely astute words "be gentle like doves and wise as serpents". My realisation is that we need to choose more carefully when to go on the offensive in defending the gospel; perhaps we should do it less but without fear or mincing words when we need to do it; but more importantly perhaps the gentle as doves bit requires us to be more patient when explaining to genuine seekers (mockers don't necessarily command that patience),

I just wanted to say a very firm and loud Amen to all of the above in its entirety.

Pastor AIO:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_God

The basic idea is that Matthew being Jewish is hesitant to call the name of God in vain. So he prefers to use heaven instead.

Tx Pastor AIO

JeSoul:

I just wanted to say a very firm and loud Amen to all of the above in its entirety.

I couldnt have said it better (except that the spambot banned me so I had to chill until I was released). LOL.

God bless you, people!

InesQor:

I couldnt have said it better (except that the spambot banned me so I had to chill until I was released). LOL.

God bless you, people!

Oh , not again!. . .