I just remembered an Igbo-language book I read in secondary school. I do not remember the title, but I remember something strange I read in it.

When the old people in the story were saying their traditional prayers (ịgọ ọfọ), instead of the usual Iseee! response, they were responding with Ọfọ ọọọ!

My question now is, are there any Igbo-speaking group that uses a response that isn't Ise in traditional prayers or Ịgọ ọfọ?

By Igbo-speaking, I mean every group within the Igboid family, including Ikwere and Ekpeye.

It seems "ise" as an expression was something that spread around and became more popular in recent years, akin to how "igba nkwu" and "ndeewo" have become more commonplace or otherwise "standard".

From what I could gather, it would seem various groups had their own ways of expressing agreement in an "Amen" soft of fashion. In Ngwa, for instance, it is kpoo. I know Echie has theirs that is not "ise", but I don't remember what they say exactly. Asa and Ndoki also have theirs, but "ise" has become commonplace within their enclaves, so we hear a lot of it within their communities.

Isee and ofor are the same thing.

But Isee is the generalized form of amen

While ofor is strictly for the igbo traditional worshipers because they do things with ofor n'ogu

ChinenyeN:
It seems "ise" as an expression was something that spread around and became more popular in recent years, akin to how "igba nkwu" and "ndeewo" have become more commonplace or otherwise "standard".

From what I could gather, it would seem various groups had their own ways of expressing agreement in an "Amen" soft of fashion. In Ngwa, for instance, it is kpoo. I know Echie has theirs that is not "ise", but I don't remember what they say exactly. Asa and Ndoki also have theirs, but "ise" has become commonplace within their enclaves, so we hear a lot of it within their communities.

Hmm. Interesting. I'm guessing the Kpoo is an imitation of the sound of the staffs and the ofo that the elders hit on the floor to 'punctuate' their prayers and in agreement with the 'prayer points'.

Iseee or Ofoo are the same thing. Anambra say both

RedboneSmith:
Hmm. Interesting. I'm guessing the Kpoo is an imitation of the sound of the staffs and the ofo that the elders hit on the floor to 'punctuate' their prayers and in agreement with the 'prayer points'.

Maybe. Maybe not. Kpoo has a [H]igh [L]ow tone distribution with dotless 'oo' in pronunciation (so, kpooh, instead of kpaaw). Granted, I'm not sure if that speaks towards striking the ofo on the ground or not.

Echie's own is fiham [HLL].

ChinenyeN:
It seems "ise" as an expression was something that spread around and became more popular in recent years, akin to how "igba nkwu" and "ndeewo" have become more commonplace or otherwise "standard".

From what I could gather, it would seem various groups had their own ways of expressing agreement in an "Amen" soft of fashion. In Ngwa, for instance, it is kpoo. I know Echie has theirs that is not "ise", but I don't remember what they say exactly. Asa and Ndoki also have theirs, but "ise" has become commonplace within their enclaves, so we hear a lot of it within their communities.

All thanks to Nnamdi Kalu and the followers of Eri centric school of thought for making Isee popular well in Ngwa eg (Obingwa) goes like this Eeeeeh and that Isee stuff belongs in Anambara,Enugwu and Delta State inwhich Isee is only common among young people withing Imo,Abia and Ebony State cities and not the villages where their elders have their own unique way of saying it based on their custom and they're not ready to give that up for followers of Nnamdi Kalu, followers of Eri centric school of thought and their propaganda Idea which is only Isee that Igbo people say, I'm not fighting with you I'm only saying my own point.

Ị kanụ l'ezi Letu. We also say eee l'ụwala ke m, just as we would kpoo.

Thank you for your responses. They were very helpful.

Isee has been how we say Amen in Imo state. I’m from Isu LGA and we use Isee. Even my grandfathers have always made use of Isee when praying with the Ofo, the only replacement to Isee is still the word Ofoo which is substituted occasionally during prayers.

Achebe took note of this especially as a young boy living in Owerri. His ‘Things Fall Apart’ book was a recollection of the cultural practices in both the northern and southern Igboland. Do not forget that he lived with his elder brother in Owerri as a boy. This was were he saw first hand the Mbari houses and other cultural practices.

Ofo na Ogu is a unique Igbo cultural practice from Nsukka in the northern fringe to Opobo in the coastal region. Ofo na Ogu was institutionalized by Ala/Ana/Ani the earth goddess. Isee on the other hand have always been the way our fathers say Amen to prayers in reference to Ala. Isee which means Amen is different from Kpoo as postulated by Chinenye.

letu:
All thanks to Nnamdi Kalu and the followers of Eri centric school of thought for making Isee popular well in Ngwa eg (Obingwa) goes like this Eeeeeh and that Isee stuff belongs in Anambara,Enugwu and Delta State inwhich Isee is only common among young people withing Imo,Abia and Ebony State cities and not the villages where their elders have their own unique way of saying it based on their custom and they're not ready to give that up for followers of Nnamdi Kalu, followers of Eri centric school of thought and their propaganda Idea which is only Isee that Igbo people say, I'm not fighting with you I'm only saying my own point.

It’s an insult to attribute an age long Igbo cultural practices to Eri of yesterday or even Kanu a small boy.
Isee is an age long Igbo practice. Older than many recent words. Do not forget that Igbo, Yoruba, Nupe, Bini Igala etc are from the same language group.
The Yoruba’s say Asee
Bini say Isee with the ee down
The Igbos say Isee with the ee continuous.

I can see Chinenye and even you Letu denounce Isee. Both of you are from Ngwa and your dialect isn’t pure in real sense, it is a bastardized language in same form as Ikwerre and Aro.

Let’s face it, etymologically and linguistically, which will you take as authentic between the Igbo spoken in Ngwa which has overtime been bastardized from the Cross River area to that spoken in Isu down
to Awka that still retain it’s uniqueness?

For the sake of your gods, SHUT UP already. You Igbo people are annoying.

UdechiHD, this sort of arrogant (and even ignorant) rant is not the reason I opened this thread.

I had a simple question: Are there Igbo communites that use another response to prayers apart from Ise? Simple.

Your community uses ise. You should have walked by. Chinenye and Letu's community have other responses. They supplied them.

The additional commentary on how ise probably spread from more central communities within the Igbo space is one I can understand. Igbo communities are losing their individuality to standardization. That's a fact, everyone knows that. No offence to anyone in stating it.


Can you explain the rationale for attacking people from communites that have other responses? Please explain it to me, explain this your irrational and incoherent attack on Ngwa people.

ChinenyeN:
For the sake of your gods, SHUT UP already. You Igbo people are annoying.

We are annoying when those with a faint idea of Igbo origin, language and migrations want to tell a different history. Why didn’t the historians who compiled the Igbo language pick Ngwa, because it isn’t pure. Why did they pick from the Isu/Awka belt. I’m not against what you call Isee in your dialect, but please you and Letu should mind how you castigate Isee. Your Kpoo is not aboriginal but Isee is pure Igbo word for Amen.

The major Igbo groups that can claim authochtonous across the Niger remains those within the Awka/Isu heartland. Historians can attest to this fact with archeological findings. Igbo Ukwu is a proof of this. In Awka they exist an Isuaniocha and in as far as Arochukwu they is still an Isu that didn’t fold to the Aro.

Your Ngwa migrated with Mbaise from Isu to their current location. And no matter how you want to disprove this fact, you should know that the evidence are available.
So when we are talking about Igbo ancestral dialect don’t come and tell us a bastardized form.

It is quite unfortunate that certain groups emerge from non-Igbo areas to claim superiority over the aborigines. The same way the Aro groups emerge to usurp Isu in the south was similar way Eri came to usurped Awka up north.

RedboneSmith:
UdechiHD, this sort of arrogant (and even ignorant) rant is not the reason I opened this thread.

Mine was a response to Letu’s arrogance that tried to ascribe Isee to Eri and he even went on to belittle it as an IPOB innovation. I only blasted that Ngwa orientation in his head. Isee is an aboriginal Igbo word.

I had a simple question: Are there Igbo communites that use another response to prayers apart from Ise? Simple.

Yes, they are and we can easily tell where they are limited to.

Your community uses ise. You should have walked by. Chinenye and Letu's community have other responses. They supplied them.

I only added my opinion to the thread.

The additional commentary on how ise probably spread from more central communities within the Igbo space is one I can understand. Igbo communities are losing their individuality to standardization. That's a fact, everyone knows that. No offence to anyone in stating it.

False, Igbo communities are not losing their individuality. Every clan still speak their dialect. Where there seems to be a change to a more centralized Igbo is usually in Urban areas such as Onitsha, Owerri, Umuahia, Aba, Enugu etc and we know why?
Secondly, these overhyped losing of individuality is over blown by those who want to destroy the fabrics of Igbo Izugbe and they’ll fail in that mission. The central Igbo is only reverting all Igbo groups to the ancestral or let me say purest form of Igbo language.

Can you explain the rationale for attacking people from communites that have other responses? Please explain it to me, explain this your irrational and incoherent attack on Ngwa people.

Who attacked first? Check up Letu and Chinenye’s response and tell me if it’s different from the Eri groups with myopic intentions. They should have told us what they call Isee in their dialects and not denigrate the Isee that is a general word for Amen in Igbo language.

There's no denigration in Chinenye's comment.

I agree Letu came across as too excited. But the first real insult I see here was you referring to their language as bastardised.

RedboneSmith:
There's no denigration in Chinenye's comment.

I agree Letu came across as too excited. But the first real insult I see here was you referring to their language as bastardised.

Below is my first contribution to the thread. The second comment was when I realized that Letu had already made a denigrating post earlier. Yes, I wrote them in quick succession but it was as a result of the rash antagonism to those earlier posted.
However, you as the Op failed in your duty to caution Letu earlier.

Isee has been how we say Amen in Imo state. I’m from Isu LGA and we use Isee. Even my grandfathers have always made use of Isee when praying with the Ofo, the only replacement to Isee is still the word Ofoo which is substituted occasionally during prayers.

Achebe took note of this especially as a young boy living in Owerri. His ‘Things Fall Apart’ book was a recollection of the cultural practices in both the northern and southern Igboland. Do not forget that he lived with his elder brother in Owerri as a boy. This was were he saw first hand the Mbari houses and other cultural practices.

Ofo na Ogu is a unique Igbo cultural practice from Nsukka in the northern fringe to Opobo in the coastal region. Ofo na Ogu was institutionalized by Ala/Ana/Ani the earth goddess. Isee on the other hand have always been the way our fathers say Amen to prayers in reference to Ala. Isee which means Amen is different from Kpoo as postulated by Chinenye.

Ignorance. There isn't a single surviving community that speaks anything close to proto-Igbo, so how can you think you're any less "bastard" than we are? The height of hubris.

We even showed on this platform that it is "bastard" lects like ours that actually contribute the most towards reconstructing proto-Igbo. So does that not show that our lects are more authentic than yours? Foolishness. I personally don't believe that, but I'm using it as an example to paint a picture of how dumb your words sound.

Igbo people are so annoying when it comes to accepting the diversity of the region.

See yourself. In your arrogance, you came and regurgitated us migrating from Isu. Igbo historical research shows that Ngwa was settled way before the 15th century, which predates the Isuama migrations that you are even referencing. That aside, the actual oral tradition in the Ngwa-Mbaise area is nfulala, and we considered the Isu to be strangers. Honestly, just shut up now and stop talking about what you don’t know.

ChinenyeN:
Ignorance. There isn't a single surviving community that speaks anything close to proto-Igbo, so how can you think you're any less "bastard" than we are? The height of hubris.

Define what you mean by proto-Igbo
Historians both foreign and local (Dike, Ischei, Afigbo etc) will tell you that the Igbo language form same cluster with the YEAI group of Niger-Congo languages. The Igbo language that is closest to the proto-Igbo remains those spoken in the Igbo heartland. The languages spoken in the frontiers or boundary communities have been bastardized by neighboring ethnic groups.

We even showed on this platform that it is "bastard" lects like ours that actually contribute the most towards reconstructing proto-Igbo. So does that not show that our lects are more authentic than yours? Foolishness. I personally don't believe that, but I'm using it as an example to paint a picture of how dumb your words sound.[/b]What your dialect did was to add to the lexicon of the wider Igbo dictionary. As much as we appreciate it, which has helped in diversifying our language similar to the English language, we will still elevate the Igbo Izugbe generally spoken.

[quote]Igbo people are so annoying when it comes to accepting the diversity of the region.

Yes we are Igbo people and that name has been our identity for centuries. My ancestors have always called themselves and those who speak mutually intelligible language as themselves Igbos. The names of our towns such as Ama-Igbo, Igbo Ukwu etc are evidence of our ethnicity, and we alone know the meaning. Those south of us in the riverine areas where called the Oru or Olu. However, consistent raids in those areas by the Igala/Benin forced them into the hinterlands while a few joined the incoming Ijaws to found riverine communities such as Nembe etc.

See yourself. In your arrogance, you came and regurgitated us migrating from Isu. Igbo historical research shows that Ngwa was settled way before the 15th century, which predates the Isuama migrations that you are even referencing. That aside, the actual oral tradition in the Ngwa-Mbaise area is nfulala, and we considered the Isu to be strangers. Honestly, just shut up now and stop talking about what you don’t know.

15 century? Lol! Do you know how old is Igbo Ukwu artifacts. If your origin is 15 century, then it means the Isuikwuano’s are far older than you. You guys are simply lost children who forget their way back home after leaving the homeland. Same with the Aros only that they went further to conquer the Ibibios and return back to claim dominance over their brothers they left behind. First destroying the Igwekala shrine just to enthrone their Ibini-Ukpabi and went further to create Aro settlements in Isu. Ironically, the same Aro still left the Isu village in their backyard protected because they are same people. They still exist an Isu village in Arochukwu LGA till today, what does that tell you. The Aros are like the Oyo people of Yorubaland who left Ife to Nupeland where they created an empire only to return back to add Ife to their empire.

What do you know about Isuama migration? Who knows if it was the last migration into your area in the 16 century that makes you think the Isu began migrating yesterday. As I earlier said, you lost your way back home and totally forgot your origin. Even the Isuikwuano’s your northern neighbor are older than 15 century.

No. I won't do this nonsense back and forth with you. I don’t know why people like you, who don't know anything about Ngwa oral traditions, always feel entitled to debate the subject, but I’m not entertaining this foolishness.

ChinenyeN:
No. I won't do this nonsense back and forth with you. I don’t know why people like you, who don't know anything about Ngwa oral traditions, always feel entitled to debate the subject, but I’m not entertaining this foolishness.

Ngwaland of yesterday. Even the Ngwa is a conglomerate of southern Isu communities with same brotherhood with Mbaise. How did your Ngwa tag came about. Can you educate us? Was it not as a result of Aro/Isuikwuano’s aggression that you grouped yourself under one name to resist them.

Wow. You actually do not know anything about Ngwa oral traditions. Your response now has just shown that.

You know what. So long as this is how you want to behave, you will get no answers from me. After all, I’ve been on NL long enough to have done this dance with your predecessors. In all that time, I was never arrogant to argue their own oral traditions with them, because I know the limitations of my own knowledge. I’ve afforded you idiots that much respect. Yet, you won’t reciprocate. Enough is enough.

This is who I’m supposed to be in unity with? Nonsense. I want no part.

ChinenyeN:
Wow. You actually do not know anything about Ngwa oral traditions. Your response now has just shown that.

You know what. So long as this is how you want to behave, you will get no answers from me. After all, I’ve been on NL long enough to have done this dance with your predecessors. In all that time, I was never arrogant to argue their own oral traditions with them, because I know the limitations of my own knowledge. I’ve afforded you idiots that much respect. Yet, you won’t reciprocate. Enough is enough.

This is who I’m supposed to be in unity with? Nonsense. I want no part.

Nonsense! There is no Ngwa oral history that doesn’t make mention of Ndi Mbaise or the Isuikwuano’s.
I’m only putting you in your place to cure that headache in your head.
Igbo unity is non-negotiable and Igbo Izugbe is here to stay. Whoever that doesn’t like it should jump into the river.

I didn't even say what it mentioned and what it didn't. See yourself. You're the only one here talking, which means you are arguing with yourself. Yet you've shown the limits of your own knowledge, meaning that you don't even know what it is you are arguing about with your own self. Just keep your stupid, squandered and fragile unity. I will not partake so long as it is with people like you. End of discussion.

ChinenyeN:
I didn't even say what it mentioned and what it didn't. See yourself. You're the only one here talking, which means you are arguing with yourself. Yet you've shown the limits of your own knowledge, meaning that you don't even know what it is you are arguing about with your own self. Just keep your stupid, squandered and fragile unity. I will not partake so long as it is with people like you. End of discussion.

Please Chinenye forget that 15 year old Schizophrenia boy that just finished secondary School, I only explain that it's not all Igbo people that says Isee but have their own unique way of saying it as years go by do to the idea of creating a stronger Igbo unity the Isee type was choose as a central like Igbo Izugbe for Igbo unity . This was all I was trying to explain only for this boy to misunderstand me and go out Schizophrenia on Ngwa people/land.

letu:
Please Chinenye forget that 15 year old Schizophrenia boy that just finished secondary School, I only explain that it's not all Igbo people that says Isee but have their own unique way of saying it as years go by do to the idea of creating a stronger Igbo unity the Isee type was choose as a central like Igbo Izugbe for Igbo unity . This was all I was trying to explain only for this boy to misunderstand me and go out Schizophrenia on Ngwa people/land.

Afịrị ngwụ la nnine. I for don tiya for this useless back and forth with these people. At this rate, in the next few years, we'll again hear more and more of this "bastardized", "not pure", "non-Igbo" talk. People will start arguing that our dialect is wrong. I’m tired. They want us to sit back and say “yes yes” while they insult us and our language and culture.

ChinenyeN:
Ignorance. There isn't a single surviving community that speaks anything close to proto-Igbo, so how can you think you're any less "bastard" than we are? The height of hubris.

We even showed on this platform that it is "bastard" lects like ours that actually contribute the most towards reconstructing proto-Igbo. So does that not show that our lects are more authentic than yours? Foolishness. I personally don't believe that, but I'm using it as an example to paint a picture of how dumb your words sound.

Igbo people are so annoying when it comes to accepting the diversity of the region.

See yourself. In your arrogance, you came and regurgitated us migrating from Isu. Igbo historical research shows that Ngwa was settled way before the 15th century, which predates the Isuama migrations that you are even referencing. That aside, the actual oral tradition in the Ngwa-Mbaise area is nfulala, and we considered the Isu to be strangers. Honestly, just shut up now and stop talking about what you don’t know.

It is high time you guys take this your Ngwa nonsense to Atlantic ocean.

What rubbish.

ChinenyeN:
[s]No. I won't do this nonsense back and forth with you. I don’t know why people like you, who don't know anything about Ngwa oral traditions, always feel entitled to debate the subject, but I’m not entertaining this foolishness[/s].

Which oral history.

ChinenyeN:
Wow. You actually do not know anything about Ngwa oral traditions. Your response now has just shown that.

You know what. So long as this is how you want to behave, you will get no answers from me. After all, I’ve been on NL long enough to have done this dance with your predecessors. In all that time, I was never arrogant to argue their own oral traditions with them, because I know the limitations of my own knowledge. I’ve afforded you idiots that much respect. Yet, you won’t reciprocate. Enough is enough.

This is who I’m supposed to be in unity with? Nonsense. I want no part.

Take your Ngwa and move out.. Nonsense.

Get out with whatever useless entity that is remaining if the said Ngwa.

letu:
Please Chinenye forget that 15 year old Schizophrenia boy that just finished secondary School, I only explain that it's not all Igbo people that says Isee but have their own unique way of saying it as years go by do to the idea of creating a stronger Igbo unity the Isee type was choose as a central like Igbo Izugbe for Igbo unity . This was all I was trying to explain only for this boy to misunderstand me and go out Schizophrenia on Ngwa people/land.

Your aim is simply to Insult ndigbo and elevate Ngwa.

chineke kpokwa gi oku.

ChinenyeN:


Afịrị ngwụ la nnine. I for don tiya for this useless back and forth with these people. At this rate, in the next few years, we'll again hear more and more of this "bastardized", "not pure", "non-Igbo" talk. People will start arguing that our dialect is wrong. I’m tired. They want us to sit back and say “yes yes” while they insult us and our language and culture.

You have to accept the sound history the way it is.

UdechiHD:
We are annoying when those with a faint idea of Igbo origin, language and migrations want to tell a different history. Why didn’t the historians who compiled the Igbo language pick Ngwa, because it isn’t pure. Why did they pick from the Isu/Awka belt. I’m not against what you call Isee in your dialect, but please you and Letu should mind how you castigate Isee. Your Kpoo is not aboriginal but Isee is pure Igbo word for Amen.

The major Igbo groups that can claim authochtonous across the Niger remains those within the Awka/Isu heartland. Historians can attest to this fact with archeological findings. Igbo Ukwu is a proof of this. In Awka they exist an Isuaniocha and in as far as Arochukwu they is still an Isu that didn’t fold to the Aro.

Your Ngwa migrated with Mbaise from Isu to their current location. And no matter how you want to disprove this fact, you should know that the evidence are available.
So when we are talking about Igbo ancestral dialect don’t come and tell us a bastardized form.

It is quite unfortunate that certain groups emerge from non-Igbo areas to claim superiority over the aborigines. The same way the Aro groups emerge to usurp Isu in the south was similar way Eri came to usurped Awka up north.

You are obsessed with Nri and because of this you are making conjectures with information that doesn't align. You want to attack Nri and Eri but since you are bereft of any reasonable information you just grasping at straws....nonsense

Cc. UdechiHD