nkemoma:


So Adam and Eve are in Hell Fire...

Note Hell and Hell Fire mean 2 differnt things

There is nothing like he'll fire. There is a lake of fire where all sinners will be sentenced to in the end after judgment. Don't get it twisted.

As at the time Adam and Eve died, the law has not been laid. So it will be wrong to say they are in the lake of fire because the law was what brought sin and eternal death ( lake of fire).

I hope some Bible scholars can help further with this.

Cc: Jiggaz.

pozehnani:
Once saved forever saved. If we could overcome sin on our own, then JESUS didn't need to come and die. So once you've accepted Christ, nothing can make you lose heaven except the sin of blasphemy. Let's try to understand these things.

Cc: Jiggaz.

I think you have it mixed up. Salvation is not unto Heaven. No, according to Jesus Christ Himself, Salvation is from the condemnation of Sin, that is death. So when you are saved, you are saved from the penalty of sin, which is death, and given eternal life. That is what Salvation that Jesus Christ came to give us is about. The eternal life that Jesus Christ gifted us all who believe in Him does not guarantee entry into Heaven, NO. What it guarantees is that you will not die but live.... you have an afterlife unlike those who choose not to believe.

John 3 vs 16-21 (ERV)
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16. “For God so loved the world,[i] that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
17. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
18. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
19. And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil.
20. For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed.
21. But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God.”

Yes, once you are saved from the condemnation of sin i.e. death, you are saved forever. However, salvation does not come with a guarantee of any kind of Heaven. Reading further in the Gospels, you will discover that indeed, to get into Heaven, you have to qualify for it, and this is where obedience of the commandments of Jesus Christ, the New Covenant, comes in.

pozehnani:


There is nothing like he'll fire. There is a lake of fire where all sinners will be sentenced to in the end after judgment. Don't get it twisted.

As at the time Adam and Eve died, the law has not been laid. So it will be wrong to say they are in the lake of fire because the law was what brought sin and eternal death ( lake of fire).

I hope some Bible scholars can help further with this.

Cc: Jiggaz.

Go read Rev 20:14 again.. Lake of fire means the second death. It is symbolic because the Devil goes into the lake, literal fire can't kill a spirit.. Death and the grave also goes into the lake... So all wicked people..... P.s.. Hell simply put is Man's grave..., I repeat... Humans.. Wicked humans won't burn forever in any fiery place of torment.. Being thrown in the lake of fire simply means the person has no hope of living ever again... Dead and gone!

Kobojunkie:
I think you have it mixed up. Salvation is not unto Heaven. No, according to Jesus Christ Himself, Salvation is from the condemnation of Sin, that is death. So when you are saved, you are saved from the penalty of sin, which is death, and given eternal life. That is what Salvation that Jesus Christ came to give us is about. The eternal life that Jesus Christ gifted us all who believe in Him does not guarantee entry into Heaven, NO. What it guarantees is that you will not die but live.... you have an afterlife unlike those who choose not to believe.

Yes, once you are saved from the condemnation of sin i.e. death, you are saved forever. However, salvation does not come with a guarantee of any kind of Heaven. Reading further in the Gospels, you will discover that indeed, to get into Heaven, you have to qualify for it, and this is where obedience of the commandments of Jesus Christ, the New Covenant, comes in.

Hm... My dear, salvation is a total package and has all that you stated above ( eternal life in heaven). Once youve received salvation, you are qualified for heaven. My love.

pozehnani:
Hm... My dear, salvation is a total package and has all that you stated above ( eternal life in heaven). Once youve received salvation, you are qualified for heaven. My love.

Salvation is a total package of what? Jesus Christ never told you that salvation from sin and death guarantees you a place in Heaven. Whoever told you that is not Jesus Christ.

Ask yourself, what exactly did Jesus Christ come to save man from? Obviously, it has to be something that man was already suffering with, and it is the condemnation of sin, which is death. Yes, all sinners were condemned to perish before Jesus Christ, eternal life, showed up. So, to all those who believe in Him, He gave the gift of eternal life, which is salvation from death... meaning those who believe Him will not perish but have everlasting life.

Nowhere in the gospels does Jesus Christ then state that all those who have eternal life will end up in Heaven. Not a single place, since Heaven is itself a promise made only to those who obey Jesus Christ, the Truth of God, and the Way to God.

nkemoma:
Go read Rev 20:14 again.. Lake of fire means the second death. It is symbolic because the Devil goes into the lake, literal fire can't kill a spirit.. Death and the grave also goes into the lake... So all wicked people..... P.s.. Hell simply put is Man's grave..., I repeat... Humans.. Wicked humans won't burn forever in any fiery place of torment.. Being thrown in the lake of fire simply means the person has no hope of living ever again... Dead and gone!

Hell is not the grave! Hell is for those who have eternal life. The grave is the end for those who do not believe and so do not have eternal life.

Those condemned to the grave were condemned to perish upon death. On the other hand, those condemned to Hell are not condemned to perish at all, as their suffering is set to last for all eternity.

Kobojunkie:
Salvation is a total package of what? Jesus Christ never told you that salvation from sin and death guarantees you a place in Heaven. Whoever told you that is not Jesus Christ.

Ask yourself, what exactly did Jesus Christ come to save man from? Obviously, it has to be something that man was already suffering with, and it is the condemnation of sin, which is death. Yes, all sinners were condemned to perish before Jesus Christ, eternal life, showed up. So, to all those who believe in Him, He gave the gift of eternal life, which is salvation from death... meaning those who believe Him will not perish but have everlasting life.

Nowhere in the gospels does Jesus Christ then state that all those who have eternal life will end up in Heaven. Not a single place, since Heaven is itself a promise made only to those who obey Jesus Christ, the Truth of God, and the Way to God.

So where will the saved souls reign in the end?

pozehnani:
So where will the saved souls reign in the end?

Saved souls reign? To be saved simply means to gain eternal life. The next step is to determine where the said soul will spend that eternity and that is where Heaven or Hell comes in --- will the soul spend eternity in Heaven or in Hell.. that depends on whether the soul chooses to obey the commandments of Jesus Christ or refuses to obey the commandments of Jesus Christ. Either way, the only guarantee that eternity offers is that the soul will not perish in the grave.

Kobojunkie:
Saved souls reign? To be saved simply means to gain eternal life. The next step is to determine where the said soul will spend that eternity and that is where Heaven or Hell comes in --- will the soul spend eternity in Heaven or in Hell.. that depends on whether the soul chooses to obey the commandments of Jesus Christ or refuses to obey the commandments of Jesus Christ. Either way, the only guarantee that eternity offers is that the soul will not perish in the grave.

I disagree with you on this your take.
Go and study the Bible very well. You got it all twisted.

Shalom.

pozehnani:
I disagree with you on this your take.
Go and study the Bible very well. You got it all twisted.Shalom.

Did you not read it?

John 3 vs 16-21 (ERV)
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16. “For God so loved the world,[i] that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
17. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. 18. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
19. And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil.
20. For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed.
21. But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God.”

Eternal life does not come with a guarantee of Heaven at all, but a guarantee that you are free from the condemnation of sin which is death and the grave. That is what John 3 tells you right there.

Kobojunkie:

Did you not read it?

Eternal life does not come with a guarantee of Heaven at all, but a guarantee that you are free from the condemnation of sin which is death and the grave. That is what John 3 tells you right there.

Na so!

Once you're saved, You'll sit at the right hand of God in heaven. Stop separating salvation (eternal life )from heaven.

pozehnani:
Na so!
Once you're saved, You'll sit at the right hand of God in heaven. Stop separating salvation (eternal life )from heaven.

Where in the gospels did Jesus Christ tell you what you claim above?

Kobojunkie:
Where in the gospels did Jesus Christ tell you what you claim above?

Don't worry. Will send it later. Busy now.

pozehnani:
Don't worry. Will send it later. Busy now.

Jesus Christ is meant to be our one and only Teacher as followers of His, so in essence, we are not even supposed to believe in anything that He did not teach us to believe at all. Sadly, with so many doctrines and traditions floating around in the name of God, what has amounted is so much confusion that many don't even know what Jesus Christ actually taught from the lies that they continue to hear from so-called pastors and men of god who seem to pop up everywhere you look these days.

Kobojunkie:
Jesus Christ is meant to be our one and only Teacher as followers of His, so in essence, we are not even supposed to believe in anything that He did not teach us to believe at all. Sadly, with so many doctrines and traditions floating around in the name of God, what has amounted is so much confusion that many don't even know what Jesus Christ actually taught from the lies that they continue to hear from so-called pastors and men of god who seem to pop up everywhere you look these days.

Calm down my love. Will send it now

1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

There!

Kobojunkie.

pozehnani:

1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

There!

First of all, those are not the words of Jesus Christ, who is our Lord and Master, and only Teacher
Secondly, if you read the first chapter of the letter to the Thessalonians, you would note that it was written to those who were followers of Jesus Christ, not those who are saved. Followers of Jesus Christ are those who have the Spirit of God as a result of obeying Jesus Christ's commandments.

Now, can we please get back to the gospels where the actual gospel of the Kingdom can be extracted? There Jesus Christ tells us, in Matthew 5, that the ones who enter the Kingdom of God are those who are broken-spirited and those who do works of righteousness. He even goes as far as to pronounce that only those who become like children in their thinking will indeed enter into the Kingdom of Heaven at the end of the day.

Nowhere does Jesus Christ suggest that eternal life is the ticket into the Kingdom of Heaven, not a single place.

Kobojunkie:

First of all, those are not the words of Jesus Christ, who is our Lord and Master, and only Teacher
Secondly, if you read the first chapter of the letter to the Thessalonians, you would note that it was written to those who were followers of Jesus Christ, not those who are saved. Followers of Jesus Christ are those who have the Spirit of God as a result of obeying Jesus Christ's commandments.

Now, can we please get back to the gospels where the actual gospel of the Kingdom can be extracted? There Jesus Christ tells us, in Matthew 5, that the ones who enter the Kingdom of God are those who are broken-spirited and those who do works of righteousness. He even goes as far as to pronounce that only those who become like children in their thinking will indeed enter into the Kingdom of Heaven at the end of the day.

Nowhere does Jesus Christ suggest that eternal life is the ticket into the Kingdom of Heaven, not a single place.

Hm...

FarmTech:

.
Don't allow anyone to deceive u. Some people here are out to misled. They are instruments in Satan's hand. If u don't accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and personal saviour, u will end up in hell fire. And when u truly accept Him, it will show in the way u live ur life - in holiness and righteousness.
.
And as for all these deceivers, I am warning u now. The bible is a 2 edge sword. God will destroy u if u don't repent. You have been warned.

thank you, but your own God is not nice.

pozehnani:


Hm...

the more you look, the less you see my love. That's religion for you . Just go with what you're convinced with. Last last we'll all die.

Xmuslim:
the more you look, the less you see my love. That's religion for you . Just go with what you're convinced with. Last last we'll all die.

That is not what this is at all! Where religion is concerned, there is a tendency for people to listen to the popular narrative, instead of adopting that which is indeed written.
The story in the Bible is clear on where Hell comes in as far as Jesus Christ is concerned. Unfortunately, many so-called Christians feed instead off the tits of their so-called men of god, that they refuse the read the book for themselves, in order to learn the truth of what is really written.

Kobojunkie:
That is a lie that your pastors tell you in the name of God. If it was not humanly possible, then Jesus Christ wasted His time and life teaching ordinary humans that they would.

Matthew 19:26 KJV
But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.
Matthew 19:26

Betterperson001:

Matthew 19:26 KJV
But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.
Matthew 19:26

Pulling a verse out of context to make it seem it says what it does not... the tactic Satan tried to play on Jesus Christ when He was on His way out of the wilderness...! If Satan were a man, he would be proud that you are following in his footsteps

Anyways, the passage below presents the very same verse you pulled there, back in the context it was present it. Read it carefully to understand the real message behind the words as spoken to us by Jesus Christ Himself.

Matthew 19 vs 25 (ERV)
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16. A man came to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to have eternal life?”
17. Jesus answered, “Why do you ask me about what is good? Only God is good. But if you want to have eternal life, obey the law’s commands.”
18. The man asked, “Which ones?”Jesus answered, “‘You must not murder anyone, you must not commit adultery, you must not steal, you must not tell lies about others,
18. you must respect your father and mother,’[e] and ‘love your neighbor[f] the same as you love yourself.’[g]”
19. The young man said, “I have obeyed all these commands. What else do I need?”
20. Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, then go and sell all that you own. Give the money to the poor, and you will have riches in heaven. Then come and follow me!”
21. But when the young man heard Jesus tell him to give away his money, he was sad. He didn’t want to do this, because he was very rich. So he left.
22. Then Jesus said to his followers, “The truth is, it will be very hard for a rich person to enter God’s kingdom.
23. Yes, I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter God’s kingdom.”
24. The followers were amazed to hear this. They asked, “Then who can be saved?”
25. Jesus looked at them and said, “This is something that people cannot do. But God can do anything.”

Kobojunkie:
Pulling a verse out of context to make it seem it says what it does not... the tactic Satan tried to play on Jesus Christ when He was on His way out of the wilderness...! If Satan were a man, he would be proud that you are following in his footsteps

Anyways, the passage below presents the very same verse you pulled there, back in the context it was present it. Read it carefully to understand the real message behind the words as spoken to us by Jesus Christ Himself.

Kobojunkie:
Pulling a verse out of context to make it seem it says what it does not... the tactic Satan tried to play on Jesus Christ when He was on His way out of the wilderness...! If Satan were a man, he would be proud that you are following in his footsteps

Anyways, the passage below presents the very same verse you pulled there, back in the context it was present it. Read it carefully to understand the real message behind the words as spoken to us by Jesus Christ Himself.

Kobojunkie:
Pulling a verse out of context to make it seem it says what it does not... the tactic Satan tried to play on Jesus Christ when He was on His way out of the wilderness...! If Satan were a man, he would be proud that you are following in his footsteps

Anyways, the passage below presents the very same verse you pulled there, back in the context it was present it. Read it carefully to understand the real message behind the words as spoken to us by Jesus Christ Himself.

That last verse clearly stated that we as humans need the grace of God to obey all those commandments..... Jesus even stated there that "only God is good"

Betterperson001:
That last verse clearly stated that we as humans need the grace of God to obey all those commandments.....

There you go again trying to insert into what is written, rather than taken what is written as it is written

Matthew 19 vs 25 (ERV)
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16. A man came to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to have eternal life?”
17. Jesus answered, “Why do you ask me about what is good? Only God is good. But if you want to have eternal life, obey the law’s commands.”
18. The man asked, “Which ones?”Jesus answered, “‘You must not murder anyone, you must not commit adultery, you must not steal, you must not tell lies about others,
18. you must respect your father and mother,’[e] and ‘love your neighbor[f] the same as you love yourself.’[g]”
19. The young man said, “I have obeyed all these commands. What else do I need?”
20. Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, then go and sell all that you own. Give the money to the poor, and you will have riches in heaven. Then come and follow me!”
21. But when the young man heard Jesus tell him to give away his money, he was sad. He didn’t want to do this, because he was very rich. So he left.
22. Then Jesus said to his followers, “The truth is, it will be very hard for a rich person to enter God’s kingdom.
23. Yes, I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter God’s kingdom.”
24. The followers were amazed to hear this. They asked, “Then who can be saved?”
25. Jesus looked at them and said, “This is something that people cannot do. But God can do anything.”

In the last verse, what is the "This" Jesus Christ was referring to?

Obviously, the "This" referred to in the last verse has nothing to do with ones ability to obey the simple commandments that make up the New Covenant that is Jesus Christ. And in verse 19, we learn that indeed, the rich young man had no particular problems obeying the weightier commandments that are part of the Old Covenant.

Betterperson001:
Jesus even stated there that "only God is good"

Sure, only God is good, but what has that to do with obedience as commanded, even here by Jesus Christ?

Betterperson001:

Matthew 19:26 KJV
But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.
Matthew 19:26

Stop pulling verses out of context to pretend you can make them say what you want them to. God never said it is impossible for you to obey His commandments.
If the Rich young man could obey the commandments of the Old covenants which were heavy and hard, surely you should be able to obey Jesus Christ's commandments which are light and easy.