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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / When Pastors/Christians Are Not Saved, Then Sinners/Atheists Get More Confused (635 Views)
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When Pastors/Christians Are Not Saved, Then Sinners/Atheists Get More Confused by davidinchrist(m): 9:44pm On Jun 09, 2020 |
When it comes to Salvation in Christ, it's NOT JUST about repenting or turning away from common SINS alone, but actually TURNING AWAY from all SINS and every form WORLDLINESS altogether. In other words, Worldliness is Sinful, and it's of the devil as much as common Sins. Worldliness is simply the LOVE of the World and the things in it. NOT the need or the use of those necessary or useful things of the world, but the LOVE of them (i.e Money and Material things). It's unfortunate that many Christians, even GREAT Pastors/Preachers have got no light on that yet. They use hours to preach and exhort people on common Sins and some outward form of worldliness: adultery, fornication, seductive dressing, wearing of jewelry, etc. But would NOT necessarily major on "GREATER WORLDLINESS": the Love of Money, Love of Popularity/Honour/Glory of Men or People, and every form of Selfishness and Pride in general. They also spend SPECIAL hours on making SERMONS about how to MAKE MONEY for themselves by preaching OLD COVENANT TITHING, First fruits, Sowing of Seeds and Making of Monetary VOWS (some don't even exist in the Old covenant), etc. However, before Jesus declared that SALVATION had come in a Man's house back then, FIRST, here was what the man said: Luke.19.8 - But Zacchaeus stood up and said to the Lord, "Look, Lord! Here and now I GIVE half of my possessions to the poor, and IF I HAVE CHEATED ANYBODY out of anything, I will PAY BACK four times the amount." In other words, Zacchaeus wasn't just turning away from COMMON SINS like sexual sins, fighting, murder, lying, etc. But also from a GREATER PART of Sin and Worldliness which is the LOVE OF MONEY and STINGINESS or lack of CHEERFUL giving. Interesting, in the following verse, Jesus replied him: Luke.19.9 - Jesus responded, "SALVATION HAS COME to this home today, for this man HAS SHOWN HIMSELF to be a son of Abraham. In that case, MANY professing Christians, including Pastors, Church founders and all are NOT CONVERTED YET. Because their VERSION of salvation has not necessarily SAVED them from the Love of Money. But alas, they have EVEN become GREATER LOVER OF MONEY. They tell LIES using Jesus and the Holy Spirit to PROPHESY to make money; and start living luxuriously like CELEBRITIES, using the Poor's money to build MANSIONS and resources that ONLY the Rich can afford. One of the worst things there is MANY believers see them and say something like "Boy, what a GREAT Man of God! No, they're NOT, they are just RELIGIOUS CELEBRITIES: NOT of the Lord Jesus! Moreover, "unlike" Zacchaeus, I THINK Jesus would say to them: "Salvation HAS NOT YET COME to these Houses: they should GET RID of their LOVE OF MONEY, POPULARITY WITH THE WORLD, and Wickedness FIRST": 1John.2.15 - DO NOT LOVE the world or the THINGS in the world. If ANYONE LOVES the world, the LOVE of the Father IS NOT in him. These and others have brought DISHONOUR to the name of Jesus among SINNERS and atheists, making them worse off, without much hope of coming to Jesus to be SAVED from the damnation of Hell. We've got to truly REPENT of all outward and INWARD sins of Worldliness to be SAVED, and TURNING AWAY from Greedy Religious Men of the World. (See 2 Thess. 3:6) But rather follow Godly Men like Paul: Acts 20:33 KJV I have COVETED NO man's silver, or gold, or apparel. 1 Timothy 6:10 KJV For the LOVE of Money is the root of all evil: which while some COVETED after, they have ERRED from the faith, and pierced themselves through with MANY sorrows. FINALLY: Eph.5.5 - For this you know, that NO fornicator, unclean person, nor COVETOUS MAN, WHO is an IDOLATER, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. Eph.5.6 - Let NO ONE DECEIVE you with empty words, for because of these things the WRATH of God comes upon the SONS OF DISOBEDIENCE. May Lord Jesus Give You Light. |
Re: When Pastors/Christians Are Not Saved, Then Sinners/Atheists Get More Confused by Professorcplus(m): 9:59pm On Jun 09, 2020 |
Sadly, this is the backslide of religion from the onset. Any society that has strong movement from religion has the tendency to be exploit with it. @op you have only stated the problem arising so my question to you is what do you think is the solution to curb this menace? |
Re: When Pastors/Christians Are Not Saved, Then Sinners/Atheists Get More Confused by davidinchrist(m): 10:10pm On Jun 09, 2020 |
Professorcplus: Friend, it's right there, towards the end; quoted down below: "We've got to truly REPENT of all outward and INWARD sins of Worldliness to be SAVED, and TURNING AWAY from Greedy Religious Men of the World. (See 2 Thess. 3:6) But rather follow Godly Men like Paul: Acts 20:33 KJV I have COVETED NO man's silver, or gold, or apparel. 1 Timothy 6:10 KJV For the LOVE of Money is the root of all evil: which while some COVETED after, they have ERRED from the faith, and pierced themselves through with MANY sorrows. FINALLY: Eph.5.5 - For this you know, that NO fornicator, unclean person, nor COVETOUS MAN, WHO is an IDOLATER, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. Eph.5.6 - Let NO ONE DECEIVE you with empty words, for because of these things the WRATH of God comes upon the SONS OF DISOBEDIENCE. May Lord Jesus Give You Light." |
Re: When Pastors/Christians Are Not Saved, Then Sinners/Atheists Get More Confused by petra1(m): 2:52am On Jun 10, 2020 |
davidinchrist: The Bible never said anything about common sins . We are only hearing it from you. sins are sins except apostacy 1 John 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin. . Worldliness is simply the LOVE of the World and the things in it. NOT the need or the use of those necessary or useful things of the world, but the LOVE of them (i.e Money and Material things). True It's unfortunate that many Christians, even GREAT Pastors/Preachers have got no light on that yet. Why would they have to major on anything . The pastors are simply to teach the whole counsel of God. Prayer ,evangelism , spiritual growth , intake of the Bible , fruit of the spirit , gift of the Spirit etc but not major on anything They also spend SPECIAL hours on making SERMONS about how to MAKE MONEY for themselves by preaching OLD COVENANT TITHING, First fruits, Sowing of Seedsand Making of Monetary VOWS (some don't even exist in the Old covenant), etc.. Giving of tithes and offerings are principles in the kingdom of God. They are based on the Bible. And that’s not what a whole 1hour sermon is about . The pastors teach on @love your Neighbour , fasting, honoring parents , helping the poor . Walking in love , forgiveness . Etc . It’s only on Nairaland that critics focus the church sermon on money . A christian shouldn’t be a church attacker |
Re: When Pastors/Christians Are Not Saved, Then Sinners/Atheists Get More Confused by Kobojunkie: 3:21am On Jun 10, 2020 |
And here we go again... ![]() davidinchrist:Was it not the following of "godly" men that have brought much of Christianity to its knees in the first place... ![]() ![]() ![]() When will Christians begin to pay attention again to Jesus Christ and His commandments, including the commandments that warn severely against the following of so-called "godly" men, particularly your idea of who they are? ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Re: When Pastors/Christians Are Not Saved, Then Sinners/Atheists Get More Confused by davidinchrist(m): 4:29am On Jun 10, 2020 |
@petra1 Friend, don't worry if you don't seem to need that message. Those that do will surely understand and give God glory. Remember, Jesus didn't condemn repentant sinners, but was always rebuking and exposing the Pharisees, Sadducees, Scribes, Money changers and other Religious Hypocrites of his time. Exposing those same things I mentioned in the post. You should know that by common sins I meant outward sins, while greater sins should mean inward or secret sins of the heart which is far worse. Again, if you don't think it's yours, never mind. There are many other posts else where. Thanks. |
Re: When Pastors/Christians Are Not Saved, Then Sinners/Atheists Get More Confused by davidinchrist(m): 4:43am On Jun 10, 2020 |
Kobojunkie: Friend, I'm afraid, you don't know very much about Paul, much less Jesus himself. This he told people several times: 1 Corinthians 11:1 KJV Be ye FOLLOWERS of me, even as I also am of CHRIST. Philippians 3:17 KJV Brethren, be FOLLOWERS together of me, and MARK them which "walk" so as ye have us for an ENSAMPLE. 1 Corinthians 4:16 KJV Wherefore I beseech you, be ye FOLLOWERS of me. And I've seen very few Men, great or small, who can HONESTLY say that TODAY. What I want is to always be part of those FEW men. However, kindly ignore this if you don't seem to still agree. You might as well try other people. Thanks. |
Re: When Pastors/Christians Are Not Saved, Then Sinners/Atheists Get More Confused by Kobojunkie: 4:55am On Jun 10, 2020 |
davidinchrist: ![]() ![]() ![]() Did Jesus Christ, the New Covenant, approve of you having a go-between between Himself, Jesus Christ, and your person, in the person of a "godly" man, in this case Paul? So you are not even a follower of Jesus Christ, but of Paul then? ![]() ![]() How is what you are doing any different from the Jews who followed every word of their Pharisees, Sadducees, and teachers of the law? Why did Jesus even bother with the many warnings against if He would only have people like as stand-in for Himself in the end? Ever wondered about such things? ![]() ![]() ![]() davidinchrist: ![]() ![]() ![]() davidinchrist:You practically chuck aside the commandments of Jesus Christ whom you claim a your savior so you can continue to blindly follow the lead of your so-called "men of god"/ "godly" men? ![]() ![]() |
Re: When Pastors/Christians Are Not Saved, Then Sinners/Atheists Get More Confused by davidinchrist(m): 5:04am On Jun 10, 2020 |
Kobojunkie: Alright friend, if you were hungry you would believe scriptures "inspired" by the same Holy spirit which is ONE with Jesus. If you don't believe the holy spirit, how can you even believe in Jesus who sent Him? For they are different persons but ONE. But did you even read the post carefully in the first place? Okay. Anyway, thanks for your time friend, ***Goodbye*** |
Re: When Pastors/Christians Are Not Saved, Then Sinners/Atheists Get More Confused by Kobojunkie: 5:17am On Jun 10, 2020 |
davidinchrist: Did you know that every knowledge, both of Good and of Evil belongs to God? Did you know that there is only one Spirit of Inspiration, and He inspires ALL knowledge? The bible is inspired, just as every knowledge on this planet is. The book however is written by men, just as fallible as you and I are. Yes, they are not holy men but ordinary men who penned down the stories you read in that book. So what is good about the book? Well, the book contains the written word of God... not everything in it is true, but the Word of God, that is truth. Jesus is the truth.. God is true... The bible is a book that contains truth, but not in its entirety. Jesus Christ made it clear what it should mean to say you love Him. John 14 vs 15 (ERV)He called on you to become His own follower, not the follower of others, who He denied from the get-go. John took a less subtle approach by calling those who say they love Jesus with their lips but do not even obey Jesus's commandments LIARS. Notice that John said if you love Jesus, you MUST live the way Jesus Christ lived, not the way Paul or your other godly men lived. So, before you think it is your place to try me, at least let us all know who it is you serve. Do you belong to Paul or of Do you belong to Jesus Christ? ![]() ![]() ![]() NB: You cannot serve two masters |
Re: When Pastors/Christians Are Not Saved, Then Sinners/Atheists Get More Confused by davidinchrist(m): 11:09am On Jun 10, 2020 |
Luke 19:10 KJV For the Son of man is come to SEEK and to SAVE that which was LOST. |
Re: When Pastors/Christians Are Not Saved, Then Sinners/Atheists Get More Confused by petra1(m): 11:43am On Jun 10, 2020 |
davidinchrist: I thought the post was open to response. Sorry |
Re: When Pastors/Christians Are Not Saved, Then Sinners/Atheists Get More Confused by Kobojunkie: 7:33pm On Jun 10, 2020 |
davidinchrist:But are your godly men, Paul included, substitutes for the Son of Man? ![]() |
Re: When Pastors/Christians Are Not Saved, Then Sinners/Atheists Get More Confused by davidinchrist(m): 9:00pm On Jun 10, 2020 |
Kobojunkie: Friend, you don't have to agree with me if you don't want to. I'm only willing to get into discussion with anyone who needs me to teach him, or for me to learn from them myself. Since you've tried to water down verses I gave you by Paul, inspired by the Holy Spirit. What you quoted were true, but you shouldn't believe a part and decide that some parts are of none effect. As if the Holy Spirit made a mistake: ALL were inspired, remember. I quoted 3 verses: but think about these particular one, I'm using another translation now, if you so wish: 1Cor.11.1 - And you should FOLLOW MY EXAMPLE, just as I follow Christ's. The lesson is, if you as a Christian can't tell believers younger to you to follow your example, then you're NOT fit. That's why I've CUT myself from many big Pastors/Churches: cos no fruit of Jesus in them: Matthew 15:14 KJV Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch. (Hell) Finally friend, if you or anyone else still disagrees, no problem. Just ignore me and move on. Thanks. |
Re: When Pastors/Christians Are Not Saved, Then Sinners/Atheists Get More Confused by Kobojunkie: 9:24pm On Jun 10, 2020 |
The reason Christianity is the jumbled-up mess that it is today is that so many so-called followers have made themselves teachers in the name of Christ (note: Christ never called anyone to be teachers), creating doctrines, traditions, and rules which have served only to nullify the very power of God as far as the movement is concerned. These so-called men of God have taught Christianity into a ball of confusion that it is hard to separate the truth from all the lies that have been pummeled into the throats of those who follow after these so-called men of God. Why would a solution come from that? davidinchrist:This is not about your person but about what you "teach". First, you condemn pastors who out of ignorance teach falsehoods, then you turn around and endorse the actions of said pastors. Does that not even strike you as inane? davidinchrist:What verses did I water down? davidinchrist:So, you are saying that even though Jesus commanded that He be the only Teacher we have, it is not true what He said because Paul equally made a statement that sort of contradicts what Jesus said? davidinchrist: Here is what John, another disciple of Jesus Christ said to all those who claim to be followers of Jesus Christ Now, here is what Jesus said... ... Did Jesus lie? If you make Paul your teacher/Rabbi in that you follow after his Paul's example and not after Jesus who John tells you that you have to live as don't you see that you are invariably living in disobedience to Christ? Now, I am not against consulting Paul's letters, what I am wary of is the interpretation that many of you have given to the words of Paul. I have seen Christians who have absolutely no clue what Jesus Christ really is, or why He said any of what He said, and commanded any of what He commanded. To many of them, Jesus might as well have been a figurehead who went and died on the cross for their sins and that is all. The very same Christians believe it is OK to quote Paul's words (mostly misconstrued) as a counter to almost every command that Jesus Christ laid down for His followers to attend to. davidinchrist:You as a Christian have no right, according to Jesus Christ, to tell believers who you think younger than yourself to follow your example. By doing so you make yourself a teacher/Rabbi/Master/an authority of sorts to them, and this stands in contradiction to the very will of God Himself. davidinchrist:You expect me to see you "teaching" people the wrong thing in the name of God and to do nothing? |
Re: When Pastors/Christians Are Not Saved, Then Sinners/Atheists Get More Confused by davidinchrist(m): 9:55pm On Jun 10, 2020 |
@Kobojunkie Do you believe what Jesus said here too: Matthew 28:20 KJV TEACHING them to observe ALL things whatsoever I have COMMANDED you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. NOT SURE YOU WILL BELIEVE THIS, THOUGH: Ephesians 4:11 KJV And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and TEACHERS; Where you quoted about Rabbi, Jesus was condemning the use of Titles, like Pastor/Prophet/Bishop Paul, and not respecting Religious Men above Him like many of us do today. Friend, do you have the Holy Spirit? You need to seek for light cos this is not very difficult. |
Re: When Pastors/Christians Are Not Saved, Then Sinners/Atheists Get More Confused by Kobojunkie: 10:20pm On Jun 10, 2020 |
davidinchrist:Consider my person as an example! I am not a teacher, but I teach what Christ commanded, and nothing more. Am I living in disobedience to the words of my Master? NO, I am simply echoing that which my Master thought. I have no followers/students and I am not a go-between between my master and those who want to follow Him. Now consider your average Pastor/Preacher/GO/Rabbi/Pharisee/Sadducee out there today. Jesus Christ's commands and words have taken a back seat because many of these "men of God" were themselves suckled at the tits of other "men of god" before them, who were also n-degrees removed from the master, Jesus Christ. What is to be expected? What we now have are "men of God" teaching doctrines, and rules (all man-made), and traditions of men (also created in the minds of men), and seeking for themselves followers to pass on these doctrines and rules onto. What did Jesus say about the doctrines and rules of men? He did scold the Pharisees on this as well. Your "men of god" today have inserted themselves between God and His people, just like the Pharisees and the Sadducees did during Jesus's time, and that is why Jesus scolded them much and often. davidinchrist:Like I said, I am not against Paul's letters. Only against the use of them against Jesus Christ. davidinchrist:LOL... Really? So, when Jesus, in the very next verse, says to call no man your father on earth, was He also just referring to the use of the title "Father"? ![]() Do you really believe that Christ would be so inane as to suggest that God has a problem with mere titles? Come on! I know deep down you know that does not even make any sense at all. ![]() davidinchrist:Don't worry about me... you should be worried about you! |
Re: When Pastors/Christians Are Not Saved, Then Sinners/Atheists Get More Confused by davidinchrist(m): 10:37pm On Jun 10, 2020 |
Kobojunkie: Alright friend. Goodbye. |
Re: When Pastors/Christians Are Not Saved, Then Sinners/Atheists Get More Confused by Kobojunkie: 10:41pm On Jun 10, 2020 |
davidinchrist:At least answer the question about what Jesus meant about calling a man on earth Father. That verse is right between the verses stating that under no circumstances are we to install ourselves as teachers/instructors/rabbi. Was that also just about titles? ![]() ![]() |
Re: When Pastors/Christians Are Not Saved, Then Sinners/Atheists Get More Confused by JourneytoEL(f): 11:21pm On Jun 10, 2020 |
davidinchrist:so true..mammon is a real god that is been worshipped by many Christians globally 1 Like |
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