some are christians but i fear most are not. that's my personal view.

@ Babs87

He is not God and claimed that God is greater than him.

John 14:

28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

30 I and my Father are one

That is what you call role play. Remember He placed aside His equality and divinity that He shared with His Father which He possessed before taking on humanity. Hence, the above-mentioned statements are simply confirming such.

In John 17:5 Jesus refers to that glory that was shared between them before His incarnation.

On the other hand Christ still holds the title God. If that were not so then why would Thomas make the statement "My Lord and my God", and why didn't Christ rebuke him if that were not the case?

Most of the Catholic critics armed themselves with the Bible without knowing or practicing God's words. To see a Christian attacking another Christian (of course they will copy and paste Bible passages for self defense lol) is a very stupid thing to do. Better know what you are talking about before you speaks. Do not judge others for something you don't understand.

By the way, you do have the picture of your loved ones in your house, don't you? When you look at their pictures and saying something about it, does it means you are worshiping the picture? just a thought

Please, can I ask a question without being thought of as an agent provocateur?

Why do some people think that Catholics are not Christians?


_{PS. I've tried to read the thread and get the gist of the arguments for, against, and inbetween. They leave me still wondering about the question above.}

^^^ Probably because of the heavy rituals which are just too fetish that it is difficult to differentiate between her and a traditional native doctor's shrine.

I sympathise with that answer; but even so, it seems that almost every religious movement I've perused have one form of ritual or the other, no matter the arguments to the contrary. Aside from the 'rituals', what disqualifies Catholics from being Christians? I'm just wondering, though.

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bear in mind that the rituals performed in some of those religious movements were a rituals imitated from the catholic church. it only takes the newer generation of members to know that.

[i][/i]To chrisd (ajisafe),
Sorry to say you have NO idea what you're talking about, calling Christians hypocrites (for there are hypocrites inside and outside of the church too), but readily accepting Catholics who are [b][/b]very misguided when it comes to the Word of God. God's Word has [b][/b]proved itself, over and over and over again, but just like it said, mankind does as it pleases. NO where in any 'factual' Biblical translation of God's true and holy Word, did it ever tell those who truly followed the Lord, to bow (Exodus 20:3-6) down to anyone other than God or Jesus Christ. NO idol of any kind can ever save my soul from the hell to come and ultimate doing away with mankind. [b][/b]Jesus Christ Himself said it very 'plainly', "I Am the Way, the Truth and the Life, no one cometh unto the Father but by me" (John 14:6). Might I ask you chrisd (ajisafe) how much more CLEARER could the Lord have made Himself here??

Then again we have the "don't judge this and don't judge that", when the Word of God "gives us the authority" to do so in certain matters, especially when it comes to the Word (John 7:24). You may not understand this 'chrisd' (ajisafe) but Christians really do care about and have a fierce heart for those in Catholicism and other systems, because we KNOW what God/Jesus have done for them, and what's ultimately at stake when it comes to their 'eternal destiny. Should we continue to lie to them and let them go their way and end up 'apart' from the ONLY God and Savior who ever loved them, or should we tell them the 'truth' even if they hate us in order for their 'eyes to be opened' and they finally see what God/Jesus has been trying to tell them all along You as a Muslim say you believe in God, so tell me, would 'you' prefer the lie that will destroy your life in the end, or the truth that will save you and lead you to a LOVE like non other??

Lastly, while I realize there are some Christians that can go overboard when they want to present the message of the Gospel of God/Jesus' love for you and others, PLEASE LOOK TOWARDS God/Jesus and the Word for the ultimate the true Answers that you Need in life. To the Catholics, PLEASE know that we love and care about you more than you'll ever realize (but God/Jesus care about you MORE), and if we didn't we'd leave you alone and let you continue on to the road of 'destruction'. If you don't believe what we're saying to you, then PLEASE check out the Scriptures for yourself, search out God and Jesus for yourself, and remember to "test the spirits" to see whether they truly be of God (who is NOT the author of confusion). Peace to one and all.

viaro: I sympathise with that answer; but even so, it seems that almost every religious movement I've perused have one form of ritual or the other, no matter the arguments to the contrary. Aside from the 'rituals', what disqualifies Catholics from being Christians? I'm just wondering, though.

Viaro, "what disqualifies Catholics from being Christians"? Go through [b][/b]Everything Jesus Christ and the Apostles said, and what they asked folks NOT to do (and the reasons why they told them NOT to do them, humans 'think' they're smarter than God in some way shape or form by rebelling, but we end up messing up and eventually 'killing' ourselves because our delusional mindsets get in the way of right thinking with God/Jesus), then you'll see what disqualifies Catholics, others and even some so-called christians as well? Open the Bible for yourself and see everything that God told us NOT to do, how we did those things anyway, and what's become of us all these 'centuries' later, then let me know how wrong God/Jesus has been thus far?? NOT gonna happen.

afiq: Most of the Catholic critics armed themselves with the Bible without knowing or practicing God's words. To see a Christian attacking another Christian (of course they will copy and paste Bible passages for self defense lol) is a very stupid thing to do. Better know what you are talking about before you speaks. Do not judge others for something you don't understand.

By the way, you do have the picture of your loved ones in your house, don't you? When you look at their pictures and saying something about it, does it means you are worshiping the picture? just a thought

afig, While I sorta understand where you're coming from, I most certainly DO NOT kneel down to or pray to photos of my dear departed (or living) loved ones though, as there's NOTHING they can do to help me at this point in time. I've been to Catholic Churches, see on t.v. time and again, etc. 'Catholics' (mainly) bowing down (standing, etc.) to and "praying" to 'statues, pics' what have you of Mary, ALL THE TIME. I didn't say that ALL Catholics did it, because I don't know all Caths, but I have seen what I mentioned above done just about every other day. Jesus NEVER told me to bow down to anyone but the Father, but we bow to Him as our Savior as well. Mary, the Pope, Saints, etc. can do NOTHING to help me, and until or unless God or Jesus Christ tells me otherwise, I won't be bowing to them either.

dgreatrock: some are christians but i fear most are not. that's my personal view.

"some are christians", YES, those who've saw the True Light of the Word and acknowledged Him for who He really is, and NOT let man-made doctrines tell them otherwise. Others who still follow the misleading of what we see now going on, not so much.

catholic are guilty for war crimes,

in the 2nd world war, hitler receives blessing and support from catholics,
american catholics brothers and france catholic brothers killed each other,
this raised some question about 'where is Gods position'if God through pope approves shedding of ones blood under religious guise,
see pics below;

Sometimes when I take a close look at the Penticostal churches I wonder. Almost everything about them contravene the new testament that they cling to so much! They have very little regard for the old testament but would not hesitate to quote from it when it supports their selfish arguments, like when it supports tithing. Their pastors take huge millions in the form of tithe like the Livitical priests, even when it was written no where in the new testament where Christ or his apostles received tithes, and even paul made it clear that he requires no body's money as the works of his hands can provide for him. When Christ was sending his disciples out on evangelism, the order he gave to them was 'eat whatever is set before you.' and not demand one tenth of your converts' incomes.
Again, the main massage Pentecostalism tend to carry or atleast flaunts is prosperity. It was clear in the Bible that Jesus never said a Christian life must be that of affluence. Himself and the apostles made it clear that a Christian is not of this world, and that life on earth would be filled with tribulations and that they should be endured for our rewards are great in heaven. He however did not rule out wages by hard work. Alot of pastor even go up to the point of defrauding people so as to live an outward life of their perceived Christianity.
Again, they don't believe in doing good works, or, they don't see it as an essential part of our heavenly race they stick to Saint Paul's philosophy of justification by faith alone and even criticise those that labour in this direction. They over Christ analogy in the Gospel when he said that on the last day, the whole humanity would be divided into two groups, and to one he would say; When I was hungry you gave me to eat, when I was thirsty you gave me to drink, when I was unclothed you clothed me etc, now enter into the kingdom of my father and then the other half who never did anything like, he turned away, making it clear that good works is highly essential to get a man into heaven. Also, they ignore saint James epistle where he said faith without work is dead and clung to the one they saw easier.
Again, when they pray, they pray like the Pharisees, shouting out loud above their voices and very verbose, repeating the same phrases over and over again, ignoring the Biblical directive that Christians should keep their prayers simple and without vain repetitions and raising of voices but quietly, so that the Father who everything in secret would give his reward in secret.
It was at the advent of penticostalism that things like harlot-like dressing to Church, covering of hair, Voodoo in the Church for the sake of miracles, Pastors frying their hairs becoming a sign of reverence and alot of things that were not hitherto associated with the Church atleast became the order of the day.
There are a lot of things I observed I began to wander if they are actually Christians or a bunch if money making, public show, easy speaking, social organizations! Because based on the teachings of the new testament which they claim to uphold so much, they are not Christian! Based on the old testament which they denounce but embrace when it buttresses their arguments, they are not Christians! And based on the doctrines of the Apostles passed down, they are far from Christians! What are Pentecostals actually? I feel they are part of the devil's end time agenda, aimed at corrupting the very foundation of the Christian faith and her doctrines so that at the end, Christian would not even know what the standard is or supposed to be anymore. For example, most of them claim to have no teachings at all, calling it doctrines and making the word itself sound abhorrent. That is to say, no standard anymore, anything goes!

HYPOCRITES! JUST ONE POST AND THE THREAD IS CLOSED. PHARISEES OF OUR TIME.

Maybe