Please I want to pursue a career in Computer programming, how long will I learn to be very good at it and how much will it cost me to learn it....
Programmers in the house, where do I study it here in Asaba and how should I qo about it.. I am a beginner, pls lecture me.....
Thanks and God bless....

Shepherdd:

You have good points. It's an open secret that the education system is broken. But the thing is other countries also produces theoretical CS graduates even though they have better curriculum, teaching materials and better labs(not talking about laboratory here) but they mitigate the issue by one single factor which is quality internship.

Imagine a CS student in US looking for internship, he has companies like Intel, Nvidia e.t.c to apply if he is into cpus, or if he is into CNS Cisco and co are there, if he wants system engineering or programming then Google, Amazon, Microsoft are there e.t.c. All major countries provides quality internship to undergraduates but that's not the case in Nigeria and that's why I think we have self taught computer scientist graduates in Nigeria.

I agree very well with you. How can one learn OS development without having an experience of programming it and testing it?

It the same problem with our research and education system in Nigeria. No purpose, no direction and no destination. Education in Nigeria is just for the aim of having a certificate nothing more!

That's why our engineers are just Installation engineers
Our scientists are just ceremonial scientists.

Unless a person builds himself, he knows nothing!

God help us

Grandlord:
Damn! You just made the whole concept of data structures and algo clearer to me. A thousand thanks.

Do you have more to add? Any learning resources you might recommend?

what kind of learning resource do you think?

olioxx:

.
Very VERY good write up.
Most people fail to realise that the theory you learn during your Computer Science class goes a long way in furnishing your competency. I am still a CS student and I'm proud of that and I know it is not a waste of time.
You can never compare a CS student to someone who went to a bootcamp. They just dont compare. And to those Self taught coders that exaggerate and that think they are far better than CS student, OYO is your case. A lot of master invention are product birthed by CS students themselve. CS student establish the engine/core while self taught developer build on the engine. Your knowledge of some CS stuff along the years will make you a better programmer in any field of your choice.
Rob Pike co-creator of Go, UTF-8 was a CS student.
Dennis Ritchie co-creator C prog lang, co-creator of UNIX OS, co-creator of B prog lang was a CS student.
Ken Thompson creator of B programming lang,co-creator C prog lang, co-creator of Go, co-creator of UTF-8 was a CS student he is known for UNIX OS that is one of the foundation of modern computing.
Sergery Brin co-founder of Google and X was a CS student.
.
To every self-taught developer(that might think CS studying is a waste of time and effort), I want us play to a little game.
* Explain the internal workings of a compiler, and the possible phases a compiler can have.

* Explain briefly the Architecture of the CLR (Common Language Runtime), JIT(Just In Time) Compilation.
* What three core operation does a basic compiler work with.
* Write a simple Fibonacci series algorithm, where it will print out the series to the 20th term and where you can specify the nth term you desire.
* Write a simple algorithm that can give out the ASCII values you inputted
* Find the 2's complement of 11111000, 11001010, 6A3D, E9F
* As related to x86 architecture find the bit and hexadecimal of the following IP address 127.0.0.1, 956.56.0.0(use little endianess) .
* Briefly explain the internal working of cdecl, fastcall, stdcall. And which does Windows use for callng DLLs and APIs
* List out the possible components that enables Win32 API to access the Kernel Mode of a basics Windows NT Operating system, Briefly explain Native API as related to Windows OS.
.
Note this is for FUN.

You are posting test questions, lol. Like you said, you are still a CS student. You will know what's up when you get experience outside of school. I'll advise to do your research about what the industry demands, familiarize yourselves with job adverts both local and foreign on the internet, and learn from other professionals on social media. Evaluate yourself, how ready are you for the market. You can know all that and more but if your skills does not match the job descriptions, you are on your own. Besides coding in school is not the same as coding in real world if that's what you plan to do, it would be waste if time implementing some algorithms from scratch on the job when there are existing solutions, you just have to understand it. Computer science is good but don't limit yourself to what you learnt in school else you will be left behind. This is a field where learning is constant, you have to keep upgrading yourself.

stanliwise:
what kind of learning resource do you think?

Books? Videos? On DSA.

Grandlord:
Books? Videos? On DSA.

let start from here what is your prospect.
Are you a computing scientist or you just wanna learn how to code?

Anyone with common sense can learn programming. But one thing is certain Be you a Self taught programmer or not. You cannot be a good/great programmer without having a sound "Computational Thinking". That there is the foundation of CS my friend.


Outside of your classroom; Two things count in the real-world, knowledge and experience. That’s it.
How you acquire your knowledge is up to you.

shadeyinka:

I agree very well with you. How can one learn OS development without having an experience of programming it and testing it?

It the same problem with our research and education system in Nigeria. No purpose, no direction and no destination. Education in Nigeria is just for the aim of having a certificate nothing more!

That's why our engineers are just Installation engineers
Our scientists are just ceremonial scientists.

Unless a person builds himself, he knows nothing!

God help us

I think you guys are sometimes too harsh on Nigeria. The Nigerian educational curriculum was copied from the West, and so it is almost thesame. Schools abroad also teach more theory generally as they prepare you for research than anything else.
The only difference I see is that Nigeria lacks the infrastructure generally or major IT companies for internship as indicated by someone earlier.

manuelreports:
Why won't they say such when they know Computer science students are sudying outdated course with Lecturers who only knows Theory not practical. Imagne Computer science student still studying cobol in 21st century or Fortran. Now tell me will udemy or cousera teach people these outdated languages. NUC should review the curriculum to meet up with the current demand and also streamline the courses so that students can specialise and master a particular field.

COBOL is still being used oh. Ah even fortran is still being used.

Asour:


True.

But you are an exception. The reality is that the Nigerian educational system hardly allows for in-depth perfection of the craft while balancing theories (and succeeding academically). Matter of fact, most Lecturers are theory heads(Not bad, but limiting).

Again in the industry in Nigeria, there's little funding/encouragement for long term thinking and investment in advanced Compute technologies.

I am totally against pride & Prestige (from the self taught Community) but for those underestimating the self taught, The question to them is, Were the individual(s) who drew up the First Engineering Syllabus Engineers?

Education and Standardization of Certification is to establish base level knowledge. Those who are extremely talented in aptitude don't have to "go to school" beyond a certain level. They make their path.

Exactly what I was trying to tell that Mr man. He was calling socket programming like it is a PhD, something I am doing on a dead Tecno w2, most CS students are the ones that boast, let's face the facts.

Daejoyoung:

I think you guys are sometimes too harsh on Nigeria. The Nigerian educational curriculum was copied from the West, and so it is almost thesame. Schools abroad also teach more theory generally as they prepare you for research than anything else.
The only difference I see is that Nigeria lacks the infrastructure generally or major IT companies for internship as indicated by someone earlier.

It's not about being harsh on Nigeria but seeing the obvious while those who pilot us seem completely oblivious of the simple things that bugg us down.

Let me ask you some basic questions that our leaders don't seem to want to know
1. How many physicists do we need in Nigeria AND for what purpose do we need them?
2. How many chemists do we need in Nigeria AND for what purpose do we need them?
3. How many biologists do we need in Nigeria AND for what purpose do we need them?
4. How many computer scientists do we need in Nigeria AND for what purpose do we need them?
5. How many civil engineers do we need in Nigeria AND for what purpose do we need them?

The truth of the matter is that even Buhari nor the Minister of Education nor Minister of Labour knows the answer.

We copy the whites with respect of education without knowing why they do what they do.

Apart from Teaching, where are our science graduates working? Part of the purpose of governance is the harnessing of human resources of the nation for productivity. But government has grossly failed in this regard.

Isn't that the reason why Ajaokuta steal industry is formed out to the Russians, Indians and Chinese with the number of professor of mechanical engineering specialising in metalogy in Nigeria

I actually think it is the other way round.

GoodBoi1:

You are posting test questions, lol. Like you said, you are still a CS student. You will know what's up when you get experience outside of school. I'll advise to do your research about what the industry demands, familiarize yourselves with job adverts both local and foreign on the internet, and learn from other professionals on social media. Evaluate yourself, how ready are you for the market. You can know all that and more but if your skills does not match the job descriptions, you are on your own. Besides coding in school is not the same as coding in real world if that's what you plan to do, it would be waste if time implementing some algorithms from scratch on the job when there are existing solutions, you just have to understand it. Computer science is good but don't limit yourself to what you learnt in school else you will be left behind. This is a field where learning is constant, you have to keep upgrading yourself.

.
You dont know me, you dont know about my life or my career, so please dont jump into conclusion.
.
I have writing code that went to production, so I know what's up.
.
Cheers

olioxx:

.
You dont know me, you dont know about my life or my career, so please dont jump into conclusion.
.
I have writing code that went to production, so I know what's up.
.
Cheers

Hey olioox I sent your a PM. Let's connect.

SegFault:

You did not even list the others.

This is my new handle.
The task below which I posted before is what is relevant to this thread and it is a real world business requirement.

 [Write a program that will allow me from the program you write to execute another program on a remote computer and when the program has completed on the remote computer the program you write should be able to accept a return code from the program on the remote computer. Which language and tools will you use for this] 

I was not listing anything, "Phases of Compiler | Lexical Analysis | Part -1/3" is just the name of the video link in my post, it is part of 58 series on Compiler Design and this is an educational video on youtube. I don't see the need to answer course exercises on compilers as this was something I did nearly a decade ago and I will have to revise and do some research on this which is pointless as I have never had the need to work on any project that involves me developing a compiler.

You mentioned Introduction to Networking that was why I made you aware of Network/Socket Programming which involves the advanced aspect of writing the code that is used in networking software. I cannot make you change your views but the truth is that a CS grad that has a good CS degree covering all the relevant models/courses have the skills needed to research and can come up with the right solutions to complex real world business challenges.

olioxx:

.
Very VERY good write up.
Most people fail to realise that the theory you learn during your Computer Science class goes a long way in furnishing your competency. I am still a CS student and I'm proud of that and I know it is not a waste of time.
You can never compare a CS student to someone who went to a bootcamp. They just dont compare. And to those Self taught coders that exaggerate and that think they are far better than CS student, OYO is your case. A lot of master invention are product birthed by CS students themselve. CS student establish the engine/core while self taught developer build on the engine. Your knowledge of some CS stuff along the years will make you a better programmer in any field of your choice.
Rob Pike co-creator of Go, UTF-8 was a CS student.
Dennis Ritchie co-creator C prog lang, co-creator of UNIX OS, co-creator of B prog lang was a CS student.
Ken Thompson creator of B programming lang,co-creator C prog lang, co-creator of Go, co-creator of UTF-8 was a CS student he is known for UNIX OS that is one of the foundation of modern computing.
Sergery Brin co-founder of Google and X was a CS student.
.
To every self-taught developer(that might think CS studying is a waste of time and effort), I want us play to a little game.
* Explain the internal workings of a compiler, and the possible phases a compiler can have.

* Explain briefly the Architecture of the CLR (Common Language Runtime), JIT(Just In Time) Compilation.
* What three core operation does a basic compiler work with.
* Write a simple Fibonacci series algorithm, where it will print out the series to the 20th term and where you can specify the nth term you desire.
* Write a simple algorithm that can give out the ASCII values you inputted
* Find the 2's complement of 11111000, 11001010, 6A3D, E9F
* As related to x86 architecture find the bit and hexadecimal of the following IP address 127.0.0.1, 956.56.0.0(use little endianess) .
* Briefly explain the internal working of cdecl, fastcall, stdcall. And which does Windows use for callng DLLs and APIs
* List out the possible components that enables Win32 API to access the Kernel Mode of a basics Windows NT Operating system, Briefly explain Native API as related to Windows OS.
.
Note this is for FUN.

956.5.0 which kind IP address be that one? Each number in an IP address notation is not more than 256. As for 127.0.0.1 = 7f000001.
Explain CLR kor what's our business with Windows. JIT works by interpreting byte code at run to me, by the way byte code is just a portable code that can be run by a virtual machine.
A compiler has the lexical analysis phase (dividing the code into tokens), syntax analysis (accepting the tokens and making a syntax tree out of it), Intermediate code generation (making a kind of code which closely resembles Assembly) then Optimisation (it attempts to reduce the size of the code and make it faster), then Code generation (generating Assembly code), Assembling the assembly code into an object format, Linking the object files to form an executable (could be an ELF, COFF or whatever) then voila you have your own software.
Twos complement of 11111000 is 00001000(no need to swap a single byte).
11001010=00110110(no need to swap it's just a byte)
6A3D=C395(little endian)
0E9F=61F1(little enfian)
Note that twos complement depends on the size of whatever value you want to find.
Can't answer the rest because I don't care about windows and I'm too lazy. I'm so bored.

ThePlainTruth:

This is my new handle.
The task below which I posted before is what is relevant to this thread and it is a real world business requirement.

 [Write a program that will allow me from the program you write to execute another program on a remote computer and when the program has completed on the remote computer the program you write should be able to accept a return code from the program on the remote computer. Which language and tool will you use for this] 

I was not listing anything, "Phases of Compiler | Lexical Analysis | Part -1/3" is just the name of the video link in my post, it is part of 58 series on Compiler Design and this is an educational video on youtube. I don't see the need to answer course exercises on compilers as this was something I did nearly a decade ago and I will have to revise and do some research on this which is pointless as I have never had the need to work on any project that involves me developing a compiler.

You mentioned Introduction to Networking that was why I made you aware of Network/Socket Programming which involves the advanced aspect of writing the code that is used in networking software. I cannot make you change your views but the truth is that a CS grad that has a good CS degree covering all the relevant models/courses have the skills needed to research and can come up with the right solutions to complex real world business challenges.

As for your question I'll use C(since it's the only language im a guru in plus I know hotel to handle Linux sockets), thanks for the task self I'll try it. By the way you might need to use compiler designing skills in case you just want to write a short scripting language for some purposes.

SegFault:

956.5.0 which kind IP address be that one? Each number in an IP address notation is not more than 256. As for 127.0.0.1 = 7f000001.
Explain CLR kor what's our business with Windows. JIT works by interpreting byte code at run to me, by the way byte code is just a portable code that can be run by a virtual machine.
A compiler has the lexical analysis phase (dividing the code into tokens), syntax analysis (accepting the tokens and making a syntax tree out of it), Intermediate code generation (making a kind of code which closely resembles Assembly) then Optimisation (it attempts to reduce the size of the code and make it faster), then Code generation (generating Assembly code), Assembling the assembly code into an object format, Linking the object files to form an executable (could be an ELF, COFF or whatever) then voila you have your own software.
Twos complement of 11111000 is 00001000(no need to swap a single byte).
11001010=00110110(no need to swap it's just a byte)
6A3D=C395(little endian)
0E9F=61F1(little enfian)
Note that twos complement depends on the size of whatever value you want to find.
Can't answer the rest because I don't care about windows and I'm too lazy. I'm so bored.

.
.
Lol ..
First: I gave you that IP address to test your knowledge. Which you pass I must commend you.
Second: I ask for the IP in little endianess.
Third: If you don't know the architecture of CLR, then how on earth did you know that of JIT?
Fourth: I am not satisfied with your answer on compiler, but sha manage 6/10.
Fifth: You got the 2's compliment of the bits.
But that of you hex value are both wrong. Try again.
.
If you want me to ask basic questions on general Architecture I would do so. You not knowing the internals of Windows does not justify you.
But anyway sha you try, clap for yourself sir.

SegFault:

As for your question I'll use C(since it's the only language im a guru in plus I know hotel to handle Linux sockets), thanks for the task self I'll try it. By the way you might need to use compiler designing skills in case you just want to write a short scripting language for some purposes.

Will be nice for you to have a go at the task if you have the time, for a heads up, write two simple programs in C as your chosen language is C and have each one on one computer each, try and use one of the C programs from one computer to execute the C program on the second computer and make the calling C program to accept a return code from the C program on the second computer.

I have only had to use Batch and PowerShell scripting language on one project in nearly a decade now. It's ok learning about compilers now but after learning, if there is no demand for it in the real world, it's better to concentrate on the areas where the demand is.

When i started programming, i began with HTML & CSS, over time i progressed to php, java and c#.
While hanging out with some CS guys some of them barely knew beyond hello world, but knew CS theory.
My then short sightedness made me brag how they were inferior to me.
I dropped out of my biochem course and faced programming full time.
Later on, i realized i was more interested in compiler/driver stuff{basically system dev}.
I had to learn the math and theory on my own.
In all, i think we exaggerate out of ignorance.

olioxx:
.
.
Lol ..
First: I gave you that IP address to test your knowledge. Which you pass I must commend you.
Second: I ask for the IP in little endianess.
Third: If you don't know the architecture of CLR, then how on earth did you know that of JIT?
Fourth: I am not satisfied with your answer on compiler, but sha manage 6/10.
Fifth: You got the 2's compliment of the bits.
But that of you hex value are both wrong. Try again.
.
If you want me to ask basic questions on general Architecture I would do so. You not knowing the internals of Windows does not justify you.
But anyway sha you try, clap for yourself sir.

Apart from knowing CLR is a VM I don't know much about it, JVM uses JIT too. Unfortunately I don't really do much on windows (I'm a UNIX distro guy). Two's complement of 6A3D=95C3, E9F=161(if it is on a computer the answer will be F161 because it must be byte aligned that is up to a byte)

ThePlainTruth:

This is my new handle.
The task below which I posted before is what is relevant to this thread and it is a real world business requirement.

 [Write a program that will allow me from the program you write to execute another program on a remote computer and when the program has completed on the remote computer the program you write should be able to accept a return code from the program on the remote computer.

Love this question. As a lazy programmer am going to use Python as there is a lot of abstraction with subprocess handling, and handling SSH2 on Python too is less painful.

Assuming both systems have their cryptographic keys, the script/program will be executed on the remote through the ssh driven terminal, and this will always return predefined return codes upon task completion.

SegFault:

Apart from knowing CLR is a VM I don't know much about it, JVM uses JIT too. Unfortunately I don't really do much on windows (I'm a UNIX distro guy). Two's complement of 6A3D=95C3, E9F=161(if it is on a computer the answer will be F161 because it must be byte aligned that is up to a byte)

.
At the bolded, an x86 architecture based machine will (EFLAGS)bring up SF. (UNIX follows x86 ISA)
.
E9F = 0x00000160(in base 16)(2's complement)
0x00000160 = 352(base 10)
Therefore E9F = -352(base 10)
.
When finding 2's compliment you first subtract from 15(hex boundary)(or we call reversing), then add the result by 1. If you have an F at the MSB or LSB after reversing(subtracting 15), you don't need to add 1, as the processor will flag an SF, which might give you wrong result.
.

In the original x86 architecture as stipulate by Intel themselves, any hex number above 8 is negative, 7 below is positive. I hope you get the logic brotherly.
.
I appreciate your time. Thanks.

GrantCashel:
When i started programming, i began with HTML & CSS, over time i progressed to php, java and c#.
While hanging out with some CS guys some of them barely knew beyond hello world, but knew CS theory.
My then short sightedness made me brag how they were inferior to me.
I dropped out of my biochem course and faced programming full time.
Later on, i realized i was more interested in compiler/driver stuff{basically system dev}.
I had to learn the math( algorithm and theory on my own.
In all, i think we exaggerate out of ignorance.

.
What language(s) do you use?
ALGORITHMS for compiler development
* Greedy Algorithms - Parsers and Scanners
* Graph Algorithm
* Dynamic Programming
* DFA and NFAs
* Fixed Points Algorithms
THEORY
* Heuristic Techniques * Synchronization and locality * Allocation and Naming * Pipeline Management * Try learning assembly so you can figure out if you your compiler is actually mapping IRs correctly. Your knowledge of assembly will also you figure out if after Instruction Scheduling your compiler can help reduce clock cycle. The truth is if your compiler is consuming more cycle and memory, nobody, even you will not want to use your compiler.
.
I don't do compiler development, it hard like DIE, but not impossible.
.
For Drivers, Linux na the bomb, learn about Kernel, Process, Thread, Service, File Systems, Registry, APIs etc Learn ANSI C and/or GNU C.
(Note I'm not specialized in any of the 2, but have some knowledge about them), I love low-level programming, if you've any tips for me please do share.
.
You na boss o, compiler dev dey fear me like DIE.

Shepherdd:

Love this question. As a lazy programmer am going to use Python as there is a lot of abstraction with subprocess handling, and handling SSH2 on Python too is less painful.

Assuming both systems have their cryptographic keys, the script/program will be executed on the remote through the ssh driven terminal, and this will always return predefined return codes upon task completion.

You approach sounds right as you have mentioned SSH and script/program . I have only done this task in a Windows environment. If you do implement this with Pyhon, it will be nice to share how it went.

olioxx:

.
At the bolded, an x86 architecture based machine will (EFLAGS)bring up SF. (UNIX follows x86 ISA)
.
E9F = 0x00000160(in base 16)(2's complement)
0x00000160 = 352(base 10)
Therefore E9F = -352(base 10)
.
When finding 2's compliment you first subtract from 15(hex boundary)(or we call reversing), then add the result by 1. If you have an F at the MSB or LSB after reversing(subtracting 15), you don't need to add 1, as the processor will flag an SF, which might give you wrong result.
.

In the original x86 architecture as stipulate by Intel themselves, any hex number above 8 is negative, 7 below is positive. I hope you get the logic brotherly.
.
I appreciate your time. Thanks.

I used a test code to find the answer and I found out I was right.

SegFault:
I used a test code to find the answer and I found out I was right.

. Let me not argue with you. But please try working -352(base10) to hex.

olioxx:

.
Let me not argue with you. But please try working -352(base10) to hex.

I got 0xfea0(the 0x means hex in case)

olioxx:

.
What language(s) do you use?
ALGORITHMS for compiler development
* Greedy Algorithms - Parsers and Scanners
* Graph Algorithm
* Dynamic Programming
* DFA and NFAs
* Fixed Points Algorithms
THEORY
* Heuristic Techniques * Synchronization and locality * Allocation and Naming * Pipeline Management * Try learning assembly so you can figure out if you your compiler is actually mapping IRs correctly. Your knowledge of assembly will also you figure out if after Instruction Scheduling your compiler can help reduce clock cycle. The truth is if your compiler is consuming more cycle and memory, nobody, even you will not want to use your compiler.
.
I don't do compiler development, it hard like DIE, but not impossible.
.
For Drivers, Linux na the bomb, learn about Kernel, Process, Thread, Service, File Systems, Registry, APIs etc Learn ANSI C and/or GNU C.
(Note I'm not specialized in any of the 2, but have some knowledge about them), I love low-level programming, if you've any tips for me please do share.
.
You na boss o, compiler dev dey fear me like DIE.

All these una algorithms self. Me I just dey read am for reading sake if you see the way I parse operators laff go kill you. Worst I did not add precedence self.

Daejoyoung:

I think you guys are sometimes too harsh on Nigeria. The Nigerian educational curriculum was copied from the West, and so it is almost thesame. Schools abroad also teach more theory generally as they prepare you for research than anything else.
The only difference I see is that Nigeria lacks the infrastructure generally or major IT companies for internship as indicated by someone earlier.

you have spoken well, to many they think in America the curriculum is a 5G curriculum and on mere sight one becomes immediately learned and experienced person. what they don't know is that the little theory we have here, we have little or no infrastructure for execution. Not to talk more if some advance topics are added, that will lead to even more theory and less work.

GrantCashel:
When i started programming, i began with HTML & CSS, over time i progressed to php, java and c#.
While hanging out with some CS guys some of them barely knew beyond hello world, but knew CS theory.
My then short sightedness made me brag how they were inferior to me.
I dropped out of my biochem course and faced programming full time.
Later on, i realized i was more interested in compiler/driver stuff{basically system dev}.
I had to learn the math and theory on my own.
In all, i think we exaggerate out of ignorance.

This what I have been basically trying to say in this group since that a CS person may not really know how to program but they have knowledge of human they can work around data efficiently.
A CS guy + a programmer can do practically anything in the computer world. A CS person is more incline to data efficiency why a programmer is more incline to communicating to computer. This two people can be one person. also it could be two different persons.

stanliwise:
This what I have been basically trying to say in this group since that a CS person may not really know how to program but they have knowledge of human they can work around data efficiently.
A CS guy + a programmer can do practically anything in the computer world. A CS person is more incline to data efficiency why a programmer is more incline to communicating to computer. This two people can be one person. also it could be two different persons.

My confusion is how does the CS person practically carry out data efficiency? isn't programming also the practical way of doing so?