The Qur'an said Allah set a seal on disbelievers not to believe, that no matter how you warn them or preach to them they won't believe, Allah even increases their disbelieve so that they will be punished.

This can be found in Sura Baqarah.

My questions are,

- Did Allah really wants people to be saved?

- If Allah sealed someone's heart not to believe, how then can he/she believe?

- Is there freewill here?

tintingz:
The Qur'an said Allah set a seal on disbelievers not to believe, that no matter how you warn them or preach to them they won't believe, Allah even increases their disbelieve so that they will be punished.

This can be found in Sura Baqarah.

My questions are,

- Did Allah really wants people to be saved?

- If Allah sealed someone's heart not to believe, how then can he/she believe?

- Is there freewill here?

Can you quote the verse(s)?

You just pick one verse and pass your judgement on it without even understanding the verse sef!

Just like Boko Haram.

Rashduct4luv:


Can you quote the verse(s)?

don't you know the verse exist. Reference is only important for two reasons
1. For academic purpose
2. For someone that doubt a claim.

If you know the verse exist, just defend it sir instead of asking for a reference

tintingz:
The Qur'an said Allah set a seal on disbelievers not to believe, that no matter how you warn them or preach to them they won't believe, Allah even increases their disbelieve so that they will be punished.

This can be found in Sura Baqarah.

My questions are,

- Did Allah really wants people to be saved?

- If Allah sealed someone's heart not to believe, how then can he/she believe?

- Is there freewill here?

Yes Allah did it. Infact there is an hadith in sahih buhari where Muhammad said this:

After the creation of Adam, Allah remove progeny from the right side and says they will end up in jannah, he remove others from his left and says they will end up in hell fire. I think (not sure) the hadith ended with and this act didn't bother Allah.

Some apologists justify this by saying that Allah already knew what people would do in their life time and thus, he knew those that would be righteous.

My question is, why didn't hadith specify this?. Why are we hearing it from Muslims?. Second question is why did Allah allows those people to commit crime that would end them in hell if he's indeed merciful.

Allah even says he created some people for hell. Wtf. Why is Allah that wicked (not a blasphemy but a fact). Do we look like a toy to him that he just created some of us for fire?

Xmuslim:


Yes Allah did it. Infact there is an hadith in sahih buhari where Muhammad said this:

After the creation of Adam, Allah remove progeny from the right side and says they will end up in jannah, he remove others from his left and says they will end up in hell fire. I think (not sure) the hadith ended with and this act didn't bother Allah.

Some apologists justify this by saying that Allah already knew what people would do in their life time and thus, he knew those that would be righteous.

My question is, why didn't hadith specify this?. Why are we hearing it from Muslims?. Second question is why did Allah allows those people to commit crime that would end them in hell if he's indeed merciful.

Allah even says he created some people for hell. Wtf. Why is Allah that wicked (not a blasphemy but a fact). Do we look like a toy to him that he just created some of us for fire?

If Allah exist, he's malevolent.

Rashduct4luv:


Can you quote the verse(s)?

Sura Baqarah.

1. Alif, Lam, Meem.

2. This is the Book in which there is no doubt, a guide for the righteous.

3. Those who believe in the unseen, and perform the prayers, and give from what We have provided for them.

4. And those who believe in what was revealed to you, and in what was revealed before you, and are certain of the Hereafter.

5. These are upon guidance from their Lord. These are the successful.

6. As for those who disbelieve—it is the same for them, whether you have warned them, or have not warned them—they do not believe.

7. God has set a seal on their hearts and on their hearing, and over their vision is a veil. They will have a severe torment.

8. Among the people are those who say, “We believe in God and in the Last Day,” but they are not believers.

9. They seek to deceive God and those who believe, but they deceive none but themselves, though they are not aware.

10. In their hearts is sickness, and God has increased their sickness. They will have a painful punishment because of their denial.

11. And when it is said to them, “Do not make trouble on earth,” they say, “We are only reformers.”

12. In fact, they are the troublemakers, but they are not aware.

13. And when it is said to them, “Believe as the people have believed,” they say, “Shall we believe as the fools have believed?” In fact, it is they who are the fools, but they do not know.

14. And when they come across those who believe, they say, “We believe”; but when they are alone with their devils, they say, “We are with you; we were only ridiculing.”

15. It is God who ridicules them, and leaves them bewildered in their transgression.

16. Those are they who have bartered error for guidance; but their trade does not profit them, and they are not guided.

17. Their likeness is that of a person who kindled a fire; when it illuminated all around him, God took away their light, and left them in darkness, unable to see.

18. Deaf, dumb, blind. They will not return.

Xmuslim:
don't you know the verse exist. Reference is only important for two reasons
1. For academic purpose
2. For someone that doubt a claim.

If you know the verse exist, just defend it sir instead of asking for a reference

I have quoted it out for people that want to know.

He demanded for reference then he has to have it.

And it's funny how these statements started in the early beginning of the Qur'an. The writers actually played on people psychology(in case of people that disbelieve).

Xmuslim:
don't you know the verse exist. Reference is only important for two reasons
1. For academic purpose
2. For someone that doubt a claim.

If you know the verse exist, just defend it sir instead of asking for a reference

You obviously have a poor personality.

If Taiwo isn't complaining then what's your P?

It's only logical to state a reference for the claim he made.

tintingz:


Sura Baqarah.

1. Alif, Lam, Meem.

2. This is the Book in which there is no doubt, a guide for the righteous.

3. Those who believe in the unseen, and perform the prayers, and give from what We have provided for them.

4. And those who believe in what was revealed to you, and in what was revealed before you, and are certain of the Hereafter.

5. These are upon guidance from their Lord. These are the successful.

6. As for those who disbelieve—it is the same for them, whether you have warned them, or have not warned them—they do not believe.

7. God has set a seal on their hearts and on their hearing, and over their vision is a veil. They will have a severe torment.

8. Among the people are those who say, “We believe in God and in the Last Day,” but they are not believers.

9. They seek to deceive God and those who believe, but they deceive none but themselves, though they are not aware.

10. In their hearts is sickness, and God has increased their sickness. They will have a painful punishment because of their denial.

11. And when it is said to them, “Do not make trouble on earth,” they say, “We are only reformers.”

12. In fact, they are the troublemakers, but they are not aware.

13. And when it is said to them, “Believe as the people have believed,” they say, “Shall we believe as the fools have believed?” In fact, it is they who are the fools, but they do not know.

14. And when they come across those who believe, they say, “We believe”; but when they are alone with their devils, they say, “We are with you; we were only ridiculing.”

15. It is God who ridicules them, and leaves them bewildered in their transgression.

16. Those are they who have bartered error for guidance; but their trade does not profit them, and they are not guided.

17. Their likeness is that of a person who kindled a fire; when it illuminated all around him, God took away their light, and left them in darkness, unable to see.

18. Deaf, dumb, blind. They will not return.

So they were disbelievers in Allah (just like you) then Allah then set a seal on their heart. So what is the problem here?

“Allaah has set a seal upon their hearts because of their disbelief”
[al-Nisaa’ 4:155]

“So when they turned away (from the path of Allaah), Allaah turned their hearts away (from the Right Path)”
[al-Saff 61:5]

Rashduct4luv:


So they were disbelievers in Allah (just like you) then Allah then set a seal on their heart. So what is the problem here?

“Allaah has set a seal upon their hearts because of their disbelief”
[al-Nisaa’ 4:155]

“So when they turned away (from the path of Allaah), Allaah turned their hearts away (from the Right Path)”
[al-Saff 61:5]

I just asked some questions in the OP, you should have go straight answering that instead of stressing me to quote out the verses. Xmuslim was right but then I've to grant his request. Anyways.

So how can they believe when he has set a seal on their heart, ear, eyes from believing?

If Allah truly want them saved why then he has to seal their heart from believing, a possibility in the future?

Isn't Allah infringing someone's freewill here by sealing/determine his disbelieve?

Rashduct4luv,

What if Allah(if he exist) is the one blocking me from believing since he's the one blocking disbelievers from believing? Who's to be hold responsible?

Rashduct4luv:


You obviously have a poor personality.

If Taiwo isn't complaining then what's your P?

It's only logical to state a reference for the claim he made.

I'm sorry. I did not mean to hurt your feelings

Rashduct4luv:


So they were disbelievers in Allah (just like you) then Allah then set a seal on their heart. So what is the problem here?

“Allaah has set a seal upon their hearts because of their disbelief”
[al-Nisaa’ 4:155]

“So when they turned away (from the path of Allaah), Allaah turned their hearts away (from the Right Path)”
[al-Saff 61:5]

you didn't answer the question sir.

Let's assume my student fail because he did not study well. Is it fair if I make the course very difficult for him in the subsequent semesters so that he won't graduate.

I disbelief because the message does not make sense to me. Not that I'm very sure that the message is truth and it's from God.

Let's learn to say 'I DON'T KNOW WHY ALLAH DID IT' instead of trying to defend Qur'an always.

tintingz:
Rashduct4luv,

What if Allah(if he exist) is the one blocking me from believing since he's the one blocking disbelievers from believing? Who's to be hold responsible?

There is an hadith (reference on request) that says whoever Allah wish well, he made the understanding of Islam easy for him.

Does this mean that Allah does not wish some people well

Thousands of things is wrong with Islam wallai. I was very foolish to defend this religion for years

Xmuslim:


There is an hadith (reference on request) that says whoever Allah wish well, he made the understanding of Islam easy for him.

Does this mean that Allah does not wish some people well

Thousands of things is wrong with Islam wallai. I was very foolish to defend this religion for years

Not only you brother.

Rashduct4luv:


So they were disbelievers in Allah (just like you) then Allah then set a seal on their heart. So what is the problem here?

“Allaah has set a seal upon their hearts because of their disbelief”
[al-Nisaa’ 4:155]

“So when they turned away (from the path of Allaah), Allaah turned their hearts away (from the Right Path)”
[al-Saff 61:5]

But the same Allah is the one that he sends some people astray, so how can you beat a child and get angry that the child is crying. Allah sends them astray and still gets angry that they've gone astray


"Whoever Allah guides - he is the [rightly] guided; and whoever He sends astray - it is those who are the losers."
(QS. Al-A'raaf 7: Verse 178)

Xmuslim:


There is an hadith (reference on request) that says whoever Allah wish well, he made the understanding of Islam easy for him.

Does this mean that Allah does not wish some people well

Thousands of things is wrong with Islam wallai. I was very foolish to defend this religion for years

Spot on.

Someone has quoted out a similar verse from the Qur'an.

Allah is the one guiding people and making people go astray.

Allah is the one making people not to believe and even increase their disbelieve just to punish them eternally.

This all shows that Allah is just malevolent, he's the one planning everything, there's no freewill.

But then Muslims will find some ridiculous excuse for this.

O ga o, after you guys have left Islam and disbelieved in God, you all still find a way to blame Islam and God that according to you doesn't exist, for all your disbeliefs?! Incredible!

You all will quote and quote to suit your confirmation bias...

When Muslims quote other verses that shows Allah's Mercy, and how eager to accept repentance of those who sincerely do, regardless of their atrocities, you would ignore, because you guys aren't ready for any useful discussion, but rather prove your disbeliefs!

You guys aren't being ingenious with all these your lamentations and rants about religion and God, same old stuff, it's so boring!

sino:
O ga o, after you guys have left Islam and disbelieved in God, you all still find a way to blame Islam and God that according to you doesn't exist, for all your disbeliefs?! Incredible!

You all will quote and quote to suit your confirmation bias...

When Muslims quote other verses that shows Allah's Mercy, and how eager to accept repentance of those who sincerely do, regardless of their atrocities, you would ignore, because you guys aren't ready for any useful discussion, but rather prove your disbeliefs!

You guys aren't being ingenious with all these your lamentations and rants about religion and God, same old stuff, it's so boring!

Allah guide those that seek for repentance and keep making others disbelieve just to punish them.

sino:
O ga o, after you guys have left Islam and disbelieved in God, you all still find a way to blame Islam and God that according to you doesn't exist, for all your disbeliefs?! Incredible!

You all will quote and quote to suit your confirmation bias...

When Muslims quote other verses that shows Allah's Mercy, and how eager to accept repentance of those who sincerely do, regardless of their atrocities, you would ignore, because you guys aren't ready for any useful discussion, but rather prove your disbeliefs!

You guys aren't being ingenious with all these your lamentations and rants about religion and God, same old stuff, it's so boring!

Look at you, you think that all ex muslims are atheist right? Is that what Allah has deceived you to believe?

Anyways I'm not surprised, Allah has exposed himself as the chief deceiver, the same title of Satan, the father of lies.

Quran 8:30
wa-idh yamkuru bika alladhīna kafarū liyuth'bitūka aw yaqtulūka aw yukh'rijūka wayamkurūna wayamkuru l-lahu wal-lahu khayru l-mākirīna

And when those who disbelieved deceive/scheme at you to affix/affirm you, or kill you, or bring you out, and they scheme/deceive , and Allah deceives/schemes and Allah (is) best (of) the deceivers/schemers .

Makrina is from (مَكْر [makr] ) which means cunning, deceptive, guile.

sino:
O ga o, after you guys have left Islam and disbelieved in God, you all still find a way to blame Islam and God that according to you doesn't exist, for all your disbeliefs?! Incredible!

You all will quote and quote to suit your confirmation bias...

When Muslims quote other verses that shows Allah's Mercy, and how eager to accept repentance of those who sincerely do, regardless of their atrocities, you would ignore, because you guys aren't ready for any useful discussion, but rather prove your disbeliefs!

You guys aren't being ingenious with all these your lamentations and rants about religion and God, same old stuff, it's so boring!

You may look at it from another perspective sir.

You preach to non Muslim because you are trying to save them from eternal hell. Likewise, we are preaching to you, because we are trying to save you from lies and dogma of religion.

We are all doing jihad but in different ways

Xmuslim:


There is an hadith (reference on request) that says whoever Allah wish well, he made the understanding of Islam easy for him.

Does this mean that Allah does not wish some people well

Thousands of things is wrong with Islam wallai. I was very foolish to defend this religion for years

I am happy you are out of Islam. You took a bold and rational decision.

Xmuslim:


You may look at it from another perspective sir.

You preach to non Muslim because you are trying to save them from eternal hell. Likewise, we are preaching to you, because we are trying to save you from lies and dogma of religion.

We are all doing jihad but in different ways

Lol, save us from lies and dogma of religion cos we would regret such at what point?! Abeg educate us, is it when we die?!

When you were a Muslim, you called to believe in Allah and worship, now you call to the believe in nothing. Well, believe in nothing apparently doesn't have anything, and thus you have nothing to promote your unbelief with, you are stuck with bashing faith and those who believe. At the end of the day, your unbelief leads to nothing, pure emptiness! No value, totally nothing! The fact is, if you really have found something special (beneficial), you all would have moved on, you would rather be engaged in discussing this special thing, but you guys can't!

Wouldn't it be strange if a supposed wealthy individual keeps talking about poverty and when asked to give alternatives/solutions, he keeps bashing poverty (poverty na bastard) rather than talking about wealth creation?! If you are wise, you would know such a supposed wealthy person is a fraud! "Awon eyan hushpuppy!"


"It is He who has made you successors upon the earth. And whoever disbelieves - upon him will be [the consequence of] his disbelief. And the disbelief of the disbelievers does not increase them in the sight of their Lord except in hatred; and the disbelief of the disbelievers does not increase them except in loss." (Qur'an 35:39)

" Say, "Shall we invoke instead of Allah that which neither benefits us nor harms us and be turned back on our heels after Allah has guided us? [We would then be] like one whom the devils enticed [to wander] upon the earth confused, [while] he has companions inviting him to guidance, [calling], 'Come to us.' " Say, "Indeed, the guidance of Allah is the [only] guidance; and we have been commanded to submit to the Lord of the worlds." (Qur'an 6:71)

sino:


Lol, save us from lies and dogma of religion cos we would regret such at what point?! Abeg educate us, is it when we die?!

When you were a Muslim, you called to believe in Allah and worship, now you call to the believe in nothing. Well, believe in nothing apparently doesn't have anything, and thus you have nothing to promote your unbelief with, you are stuck with bashing faith and those who believe. At the end of the day, your unbelief leads to nothing, pure emptiness! No value, totally nothing! The fact is, if you really have found something special (beneficial), you all would have moved on, you would rather be engaged in discussing this special thing, but you guys can't!

Wouldn't it be strange if a supposed wealthy individual keeps talking about poverty and when asked to give alternatives/solutions, he keeps bashing poverty (poverty na bastard) rather than talking about wealth creation?! If you are wise, you would know such a supposed wealthy person is a fraud! "Awon eyan hushpuppy!"

What or where does your beliefs leads to?

"It is He who has made you successors upon the earth. And whoever disbelieves - upon him will be [the consequence of] his disbelief. And the disbelief of the disbelievers does not increase them in the sight of their Lord except in hatred; and the disbelief of the disbelievers does not increase them except in loss." (Qur'an 35:39)

" Say, "Shall we invoke instead of Allah that which neither benefits us nor harms us and be turned back on our heels after Allah has guided us? [We would then be] like one whom the devils enticed [to wander] upon the earth confused, [while] he has companions inviting him to guidance, [calling], 'Come to us.' " Say, "Indeed, the guidance of Allah is the [only] guidance; and we have been commanded to submit to the Lord of the worlds." (Qur'an 6:71)

And Allah seal disbelievers from believing and so increases in their disbelieve just to punish them.

tintingz:
I just asked some questions in the OP, you should have go straight answering that instead of stressing me to quote out the verses. Xmuslim was right but then I've to grant his request. Anyways.

So how can they believe when he has set a seal on their heart, ear, eyes from believing?

If Allah truly want them saved why then he has to seal their heart from believing, a possibility in the future?

Isn't Allah infringing someone's freewill here by sealing/determine his disbelieve?

I think i have answered you before and there's no need stressing this further.
When the Prophet of Allah started calling his people to Islam, those that rejected him consistently will have such seals placed on them as a suitable recompense for their previous kufr and for their disbelieving in the Messengers by choice.

So they are being punished for their kufr which they choose themselves. They had the choice of believing in the messengers!

Rashduct4luv:


I think i have answered you before and there's no need stressing this further.
When the Prophet of Allah started calling his people to Islam, those that rejected him consistently will have such seals placed on them as a suitable recompense for their previous kufr and for their disbelieving in the Messengers by choice.

So they are being punished for their kufr which they choose themselves. They had the choice of believing in the messengers!

So there's no possible chance for them to believe?

tintingz:


So there's no possible chance for them to believe?

This is the question you should ask yourself.

Can you still come back to Islam?

Rashduct4luv:


This is the question you should ask yourself.

Can you still come back to Islam?

I don't know since Allah(if he exist) may have sealed my heart, hears, eyes from believing.

sino:


Lol, save us from lies and dogma of religion cos we would regret such at what point?! Abeg educate us, is it when we die?!

Actually you are not likely to regret anything after you die if there is no God or if there is no religion.
However, knowing that religions are man made is a blessing to human race.

1.You will think freely

2.you will be more productive

3.your actions will be less harmful to other fellow human because you will not judge people using any supposedly God sent message

4. You will be more good to your children. You will not force them to adopt a religion and you will allow them to pursue their passion (e.g music, art, culture etc)

5. You will not believe in stupid things (e.g prohibition of playing dice and permissibility of raping slave girl)

6. You will not be cracking your brain trying to defend a obviously wrong concept in a religion

7. You will not have assassination mission (as practiced by Muhammad against blasphemers)

8. You will think more positive of God (if he exist). You will not see him as a monster that derive pleasure in punishing people

There are many benefits my brother.

Note: religion can't be eradicated (at least for now). But the more free minded people, the better for our specie.

Rashduct4luv:


This is the question you should ask yourself.

Can you still come back to Islam?

I don't want to sound extreme. But it's practically impossible for someone that has open his mind to close it again.

Being a Muslim mean closing your mind against any logic because you can't trust your brain. "Wama utitum mina-l-ilm ila qalil" concept.

I have already placed myself outside dogma and ready to verify any claims made by any religion. For one to be a Muslim, you must first submit your intellect to the will of supposedly God of Muhammad.

If I'm very sure the God that create the universe is the one that sent Muhammad. And I know he has the ultimate power to punish me, I will submit because of the fear of punishment. But I will hate him in my mind because he did a poor job.

1. He gave Muhammad a book that is not true for all centuries. It only applies to the ignorant 7th century people. Many errors

2. He didn't create a fair environment for all human. Place of birth and parents are largely responsible for the children religion. So why punishing Nigeria Christians for example since majority of Nigerians adopt their parents religion

3. He asked us to kill apostate and blasphemous. I think he can do better

4. He caused enmity between human via religion. He could have preserved scripture of all religions. Even the Qur'an you people claim was preserved has many holes in it.

I can go on but let me stop here

Rashduct4luv:



So they are being punished for their kufr which they choose themselves. They had the choice of believing in the messengers!

Think about this.

When Muhammad wanted to enter makkah and was rejected which lead to agreement that he would be allowed the second year.
The letter drafted contains a phrase "Muhammad the prophet of God"

The kufar representative made a very intelligent remark "remove the prophet of God because if we believed you were sent by God, there won't be a need for this agreement"

Do you think these people rejected him because of arrogance and love of hell fire?

Be very sincere pls