Kobojunkie:
Paul made a suggestion. But ask yourself, what did the Christians gather together for in the beginning?
For praise and worship?
For Bible study?
For Prayer Time?
If you answer yes to any of the last 3 questions, then you have been fed so many lies that you know no truth of your own.

You can enlighten me why they gathered together from the beginning, give me a scripture I can read. thanks

Kobojunkie:
Actually, I was that sinner who was touched by God, not too long ago. And yes, I thought maybe I needed to head to your churches to learn about Him.
I found out after spending over a year there that those in your churches are clueless as far as God, and the things of God, is concerned. Basically, it was like a clash of ideas for me... God was telling me one thing, your church people were telling me another.
It wasn't until I made the decision to trust God over man that He, God, began to carefully reveal to me the truth of Himself and how He was never a part of man's church-world from the beginning and never will be, because what you have as your church-world today was never what God commanded of you or any of His followers.

Nope, that's wrong. You don't run when you've not learnt to crawl. As a new believer, you need counsel from Christians who have started the race before you.

Read these Bible verses and get back to me

Acts 9:1-6
Acts 9: 17-20

And tell me your thoughts

Nooil:
Did you see the part of "these you ought to have done, without neglecting the others."

How does that change the explanation I gave you?

Kobojunkie:
How does that change the explanation I gave you?

Did you see this you ought to have done?

THUNDER4real:
First of all, you have to know this is under Judaism. The word Christian has not emerged. Paying of tithe here is under mosaic law, to the levites( who has no inheritance), they are not suppose to work, they are set aside for God. They pay these tithes based on what Moses said, also remember they will still have a feast in which the levites eat from the tithe and give to the needy among them.( Deu 26 : 12)

Therefore Jesus is saying here that paying of tithe is good base on the Mosaic law(which benefits to both needy/ levites). However, since the death and resurrection of Jesus, These laws don't really apply to Christiandom, that's why we have pastors instead of levites. Jesus even know, that's the reason he made a parable/ narration on how people don't give to the needy, didn't visit them in prison etc and even cursed people that didn't show care.

I have not seen in the bible where Jesus cursed people that didn't pay tithe. we have more better things to worry about, like how to enter God's kingdom, not tithe. Tithe will never never give you access to God's kingdom.

You can also study Abraham tithing, it was done once to Melchizedek, it wasn't an every month or day thing. Also study how the apostles and early church started. They gave willingly to the gospel not by percentage calculation. The apostles never cursed or threatened those that didn't give, God loves a cheerful giver and that's where the blessing lies.

What exactly are you against? Tithing itself or how many times it is done?

Note: I don't subscribe to some pastor's way of demanding tithes. I don't support threats.

Nooil:
Nope, that's wrong. You don't run when you've not learnt to crawl. As a new believer, you need counsel from Christians who have started the race before you.
Read these Bible verses and get back to me

Acts 9:1-6
Acts 9: 17-20
And tell me your thoughts

The Only counsel I ever needed was from God Himself. He and He alone was and is my teacher and remains my only teacher.
Just as God Himself declared it would be in His New Covenant, is how it was for me.

Jeremiah 31 vs 31-34 (ERV)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
31. “Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, 32. not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the Lord.
33. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34. And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”

Just as Jesus Christ said it should be is the way it is for me. And I am glad I did not succumb to the lies that were shoveled at me by people who suppose that there is another way to gain this New Covenant.

Matthew 23 vs 8-12
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
8. But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brothers.[c]
9. And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven.
10. Neither be called instructors, for you have one instructor, the Christ.
11. The greatest among you shall be your servant.
12. Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

And exactly what John the Apostle said happened in my case.

1 John 3 vs 20-27 (ERV)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
20. You have the gift[a] that the Holy One[b] gave you. So you all know the truth.
21. Do you think I am writing this letter because you don’t know the truth? No, I am writing because you do know the truth. And you know that no lie comes from the truth.
22. So who is the liar? It is the one who says Jesus is not the Messiah. Whoever says that is the enemy of Christ—the one who does not believe in the Father or in his Son.
23. Whoever does not believe in the Son does not have the Father, but whoever accepts the Son has the Father too.

24. Be sure that you continue to follow the teaching you heard from the beginning. If you do that, you will always be in the Son and in the Father.
25. And this is what the Son promised us—eternal life.

26. I am writing this letter about those who are trying to lead you into the wrong way.
27. Christ gave you a special gift. You still have this gift in you. So you don’t need anyone to teach you. The gift he gave you teaches you about everything. It is a true gift, not a false one. So continue to live in Christ, as his gift taught you.

So, if I have that which is according to that which God said should be, and you instead got your counsel from men, are you certain what you have is what God said you should?

Kobojunkie:
you are paying tithe according to whose formula? The formula that God almighty put down in israel law does not even allow you pay tithe because you are not a descendant of Israel.
Did you even know that? The foreigners who lived in the land of Israel at the time were not included in the tithing-formulae. Even Moses's own son did not make God's list.

So what makes you think your tithe is according to God when you dont even do it how God stipulated, and He never included you in His list of those to pay tithe from even before you were born?

otematum

Nooil:



What exactly are you against? Tithing itself or how many times it is done?

Note: I don't subscribe to some pastor's way of demanding tithes. I don't support threats.

You said you needed an explanation, that last part, I believe it should be done as led by the Spirit of God. Also there's no curse attached to tithing. If there is, we won't have Bill gates etc. Bill gates etc are even doing what Jesus mentioned on giving. You will be surprise God recognize these people than people that pay monthly tithe. If not philanthropist, Africa would have been hell. Malaria, Hiv etc drugs will go for the rich only.

THUNDER4real:
First of all, you have to know this is under Judaism. The word Christian has not emerged. Paying of tithe here is under mosaic law, to the levites( who has no inheritance), they are not suppose to work, they are set aside for God. They pay these tithes based on what Moses said, also remember they will still have a feast in which the levites eat from the tithe and give to the needy among them.( Deu 26 : 12)

Therefore Jesus is saying here that paying of tithe is good base on the Mosaic law(which benefits to both needy/ levites). However, since the death and resurrection of Jesus, These laws don't really apply to Christiandom, that's why we have pastors instead of levites. Jesus even know, that's the reason he made a parable/ narration on how people don't give to the needy, didn't visit them in prison etc and even cursed people that didn't show care.

I have not seen in the bible where Jesus cursed people that didn't pay tithe. we have more better things to worry about, like how to enter God's kingdom, not tithe. Tithe will never never give you access to God's kingdom.

You can also study Abraham tithing, it was done once to Melchizedek, it wasn't an every month or day thing. Also study how the apostles and early church started. They gave willingly to the gospel not by percentage calculation. The apostles never cursed or threatened those that didn't give, God loves a cheerful giver and that's where the blessing lies.

otematum

Kobojunkie:
The Only counsel I ever needed was from God Himself. He and He alone was and is my teacher and remains my only teacher.
Just as God Himself declared it would be in His New Covenant, is how it was for me.


Just as Jesus Christ said it should be is the way it is for me. And I am glad I did not succumb to the lies that were shoveled at me by people who suppose that there is another way to gain this New Covenant.

And exactly what John the Apostle said happened in my case.

So, if I have that which is according to that which God said should be, and you instead got your counsel from men, are you certain what you have is what God said you should?

Did you read the verse or you just want to argue? And what do you understand by counsel?

...

Nooil:
Did you read the verse or you just want to argue? And what do you understand by counsel?

I told you, I didn't seek the counsel of men at all, because God Himself taught me of His person. Does the verse in Acts trump the very Word of God?
The apostle John in His letter to all believers tells you right there that the only teacher you ever need, the only counselor, comforter, guide... is the Spirit of God.

Here comes a generation that fears not the Lord, criticizing Pastors that are above them in everything.If you like make Daddy Freezer your Pastor,you will later know that he'll is not coldroom

Kobojunkie:
I told you, I didn't seek the counsel of men at all, because God Himself taught me of His person. Does the verse in Acts trump the very Word of God?

Should I start references various parts of the Bible for you to understand? Nah, I'm busy here. But I pray God opens your understanding.

Nooil:
Hope you know Bill Gate is a Jew doing things according to the Jewish law?

Bill Gates is not a Jew!

Nooil:
Of course, if you're led by the spirit, you'll have no arguments about tithing. You'll even give more than 10 percent. Heck, people were selling their hands and bringing all the money to the foot of the disciples.

In Acts, when the followers were selling their property and bringing it, do you know who asked them to do it that one time we know of? And do you know what that money was used for? The people who did it were infected by the Spirit of God Himself to do what they did. He, not the disciples, but the Spirit of God who lived inside each of those people commanded them to sell what they had and bring it to the Apostles.

That money was used to set up the world's first Pantry and Welfare system in the world. Remember the command that Jesus Christ gave Peter (Feed my Sheep/Take Care of my sheep)? Through the lead of the Spirit of God, the first Christians came together to accomplish it, and they all served that very mission for that is the same work of righteousness that Jesus Christ commanded all His sheep to be involved in ( Matthew 25 vs 31 -40). Daily, the same people came together to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, shelter the homeless, care for the sick and visit those in prison. They knew it was their individual duty and service to Jesus Christ and they did it for Jesus Christ.

The first Christians did not tithe and did not need to. They each knew through the Spirit of God what was required of them, and those who obeyed were guided all the way by the Spirit of God Himself

Nooil:
Should I start references various parts of the Bible for you to understand? Nah, I'm busy here. But I pray God opens your understanding.

You claimed I required church, I told you that never happened.

Then you claimed I needed the counsel of men, but I told you again that no hand of man was involved, and even showed you where God Himself declared that that was not necessary. Jesus Christ also said the only teacher necessary was Him, and Him alone. The Apostle John also informed you that you should stick to the counsel and teaching of the one and only teacher as Jesus Christ Himself taught.

Are you suggesting that God lied in His promise of the New Covenant?
Are you suggesting that Jesus Christ never commanded that He be the only teachers for His followers?
Are you suggesting that John the apostle lied when He told believers all over the world to trust only the counsel of the one and only teacher, Jesus Christ ?

Nooil:


Hope you know Bill Gate is a Jew doing things according to the Jewish law?

Of course, if you're led by the spirit, you'll have no arguments about tithing. You'll even give more than 10 percent. Heck, people were selling their hands and bringing all the money to the foot of the disciples.

That happened in the new testament, the believers were told to give anything they can give and not tithes.
Ananias and Saphira sold their land and laid the money at feet of the apostle, when asked if that was all,they lied it is and died instantly.

Stop mixing up the Bible because you want to support your thiefing pastor

Kobojunkie:
Bill Gates is not a Jew!

Oh, my bad. I mixed that up with Mark

Gpapa77:
Here comes a generation that fears not the Lord, criticizing Pastors that are above them in everything.If you like make Daddy Freezer your Pastor,you will later know that he'll is not coldroom

You may as well worship your pastor but he should stop twisting the word of God and making God a liar. Pay 100% of your earnings to your pastor if you feel so and not just 10%.

Nooil:


Hope you know Bill Gate is a Jew doing things according to the Jewish law?

Of course, if you're led by the spirit, you'll have no arguments about tithing. You'll even give more than 10 percent. Heck, people were selling their hands and bringing all the money to the foot of the disciples.

Why are you using the word "argument" we can't argue. you said you needed an explanation of a scripture, that I explained. if I am led by the Spirit, the following are involved:

1) if I will tithe I will give to a ministry that is just coming up, not on monthly basis.
2) I can give any % be it 50, 100 etc to support God's work.
3) if I am to choose between a needy and church, I will go for the needy.

Also if I decide not tithe, I am not under any financial curse. There's a difference between a Levite and a pastor. Just follow and do what works for you. The apostles you mentioned never threatened or forced any body to bring money.

Kobojunkie:
You claimed I required church, I told you that never happened.

Then you claimed I needed the counsel of men, but I told you again that no hand of man was involved, and even showed you where God Himself declared that that was not necessary. Jesus Christ also said the only teacher necessary was Him, and Him alone. The Apostle John also informed you that you should stick to the counsel and teaching of the one and only teacher as Jesus Christ Himself taught.

Are you suggesting that God lied in His promise of the New Covenant?
Are you suggesting that Jesus Christ never commanded that He be the only teachers for His followers?
Are you suggesting that John the apostle lied when He told believers all over the world to trust only the counsel of the one and only teacher, Jesus Christ ?

You want me to write a long text but I don't have that time. Read that Bible verse. Also understand why it was important for the apostles to be in one accord.

Kobojunkie:
Bill Gates is not a Jew!

.

THUNDER4real:
Why are you using the word "argument" we can't argue. you said you needed an explanation of a scripture, that I explained. if I am led by the Spirit, the following are involved:

1) if I will tithe I will give to a ministry that is just coming up, not on monthly basis.
2) I can give any % be it 50, 100 etc to support God's work.
3) if I am to choose between a needy and church, I will go for the needy.

Also if I decide not tithe, I am not under any financial curse. There's a difference between a Levite and a pastor. Just follow and do what works for you. The apostles you mentioned never threatened or forced any body to bring money.

I used the word explanation, because I wanted to see if the person I mentioned (not you by the way except you're using two monikers) saw things from my perspective. Or even in the least understood what the verse was saying.

Area4Area:
That happened in the new testament, the believers were told to give anything they can give and not tithes.
Ananias and Saphira sold their land and laid the money at feet of the apostle, when asked if that was all,they lied it is and died instantly.

Stop mixing up the Bible because you want to support your thiefing pastor

Maybe if you followed my quotes from the beginning, you won't jump in like thieves are known to do

Nooil:


Maybe if you followed my quotes from the beginning, you won't jump in like thieves are not to do

Can you rephrase your post because because I don't understand this

Nooil:
You want me to write a long text but I don't have that time. Read that Bible verse. Also understand why it was important for the apostles to be in one accord.

Again,

Kobojunkie:
You claimed I required church, I told you that never happened.

Then you claimed I needed the counsel of men, but I told you again that no hand of man was involved, and even showed you where God Himself declared that that was not necessary. Jesus Christ also said the only teacher necessary was Him, and Him alone. The Apostle John also informed you that you should stick to the counsel and teaching of the one and only teacher as Jesus Christ Himself taught.

Are you suggesting that God lied in His promise of the New Covenant?
Are you suggesting that Jesus Christ never commanded that He be the only teachers for His followers?
Are you suggesting that John the apostle lied when He told believers all over the world to trust only the counsel of the one and only teacher, Jesus Christ ?

And by the way, the reason Ananias and Saphira died had nothing to do with tithing, absolutely nothing.

If you had been knowledgable of what Jesus Christ said, their LYING against the Spirit of God would have popped the word "Blasphemy" to your head. Yes, Jesus Christ warned against those who believe lying against the Spirit of God. Ananias and Saphira were among the Christian converts who the Spirit convinced about selling their property and giving their all. But instead of going through with it, or even backing away, they instead chose to lie against the SPirit of God. resulting in them dying and being quickly disposed of.

Area4Area:
You may as well worship your pastor but he should stop twisting the word of God and making God a liar. Pay 100% of your earnings to your pastor if you feel so and not just 10%.

Nooil:


I used the word explanation, because I wanted to see if the person I mentioned (not you by the way except you're using two monikers) saw things from my perspective. Or even in the least understood what the verse was saying.

I am not using two monikers. I saw you needed clarification. Jesus paid tax, I am searching my bible to see where he tithed. I believe that you believe that the life of Jesus is what we should emulate. This is the reason for the word " CHRISTIANITY". case close.

God no need money, na our soul Him need. This man own don too much, he is building his heaven here on earth and asking members to wait till they die to get to heaven.. Lol

Kobojunkie:
Again,



And by the way, the reason Ananias and Saphira died had nothing to do with tithing, absolutely nothing.

If you had been knowledgable of what Jesus Christ said, their LYING against the Spirit of God would have popped the word "Blasphemy" to your head. Yes, Jesus Christ warned against those who believe lying against the Spirit of God. Ananias and Saphira were among the Christian converts who the Spirit convinced about selling their property and giving their all. But instead of going through with it, or even backing away, they instead chose to lie against the SPirit of God. resulting in them dying and being quickly disposed of.

Uncle, did you see Ananias and Saphira in my post?

THUNDER4real:
I am not using two monikers. I saw you needed clarification. Jesus paid tax, I am searching my bible to see where he tithed. I believe that you believe that the life of Jesus is what we should emulate. This is the reason for the word " CHRISTIANITY". case close.

No, I never needed clarification. I saw where Jesus said you ought to do those things, but don't neglect the others. And so I go through life doing those things I ought to do while not neglecting the others.

Nooil:
Uncle, did you see Ananias and Saphira in my post?

I felt the need to add that too since you pointed to the selling of their property earlier suggesting it was related to tithing which is defined in the Old Covenant.