sagenaija:
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On YOUR lie No.2:
Jesus as the Word of God in the Koran.

The Koran has much to say about the Christian faith, speaking at times favourably and at others unfavourably, but perhaps the most interesting verse of all on the whole subject of Christians and their beliefs is this one:

O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: nor say of God aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of God, and His Word, which he bestowed on Mary, and a Spirit proceeding from him: so believe in God and His apostles. Say not "Trinity": desist: it will be better for you: for God is One God: Glory be to Him: (Far exalted is He) above having a son. To him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is God as a Disposer of affairs. Chapter 4.171

AntiChristian, did you see 'Christ Jesus' referring to Jesus' messiahship as saviour and 'His Word' which the OP mentioned?

Do still see Islam speaking from both sides of the mouth in this verse?

danyero:
From fire to frying pan

haekymbahdx:


Islamically the term "Word" means a command from Allah he only says 'Be and it will be".

Qur'an 3:45
(Remember) when the angels said: "O Maryam (Mary)! Verily, Allah gives you the glad tidings of a Word ["Be!" - and he was! i.e. 'Iesa (Jesus) the son of Maryam (Mary)] from Him, his name will be the Messiah 'Iesa (Jesus), the son of Maryam (Mary), held in honour in this world and in the Hereafter, and will be one of those who are near to Allah."

Christians says Jesus is the word of God (literally
voice) when explaining concept of trinity, does that mean God does not have a voice of his own?

Can your God speak without Jesus involved because Allah can or what does word of God mean?

Also who spoke here is it the father, son or Holy Spirit?

Mark 1:11
11And there came a voice [j]out from within heaven, You are My Beloved Son; in You I am well pleased.(D)

Is it that there are more than word of God/Jesus or what do you mean by word of God.

kindly explain concept of trinity?
Is the word of God/Jesus part of creation or creator?

sagenaija:
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I gave you chapter 4:171.
That portion is not agreeing with the explanation you're attempting to conjure.

"Christ Jesus was.....and His Word...."

Give Islamic scholars position on it and not your personal idea.

haekymbahdx:
Now what do you understand by "word of God" how do you think it should be.

urchcoded:
Different toilet same shit. Why you jumped from pit toilet to water cistern.

Samunique:



Yochanan 1:1
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

According to this scripture, that word is a being.

And I don't think it's impossible for God to reproduce himself in Christ Jesus.

Though, I know you're trying to set a trap with this your question.

But there's one thing you muslims cannot change, that thing is the truth.

sagenaija:

For starters the Word of God is ETERNAL.

haekymbahdx:
Now the thing is I am certain Allah is the true God. From the look of things whatever one believes in seems to be working.

Now even if I agree with you that the word of God (voice) is Jesus through which all things are created including in angels and this word is also God. Now was Jesus the who created Satan who is believed by Christians to formerly be an angel and one of the leaders at that.

Since Jesus created Satan why did Satan ask Jesus to worship him for a reward and is there a possibility of Jesus accepting the offer, what was Satan's motive and what will be the repercussion of Jesus accepting Satan's offer?

Mathew 4:8-9
8 Again, the devil took Him up on a very high mountain and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and the glory (the splendor, magnificence, preeminence, and excellence) of them.

9 And he said to Him, These things, all taken together, I will give You, if You will prostrate Yourself before me and do homage and worship me.

Will God now become a servant of Satan whom he created?

How can creation tell creator to worship him.


Who should you rely on Jesus or God?

Matthew 6
9 Pray, therefore, like this: Our Father Who is in heaven, hallowed (kept holy) be Your name.

10 Your kingdom come, Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.

11 Give us this day our daily bread.

12 And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven ([e]left, remitted, and let go of the debts, and have [f]given up resentment against) our debtors.

13 And lead (bring) us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one. For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.

Why is Jesus afraid of falling into temptation of satan, and what is the repercussion is hell fire?

At a time Jesus even questioned God?

He said "father why have forsaken me". Didnt he know he was sent to die for the sins of the world.

Now if on the cross Jesus didn't know he was going to die who brought the doctrine of Jesus dieing for sins of the world?

sagenaija:
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On YOUR lie No.2:
Jesus as the Word of God in the Koran.

The Koran has much to say about the Christian faith, speaking at times favourably and at others unfavourably, but perhaps the most interesting verse of all on the whole subject of Christians and their beliefs is this one:

O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: nor say of God aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of God, and His Word, which he bestowed on Mary, and a Spirit proceeding from him: so believe in God and His apostles. Say not "Trinity": desist: it will be better for you: for God is One God: Glory be to Him: (Far exalted is He) above having a son. To him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is God as a Disposer of affairs. Chapter 4.171

AntiChristian, did you see 'Christ Jesus' referring to Jesus' messiahship as saviour and 'His Word' which the OP mentioned?

Do still see Islam speaking from both sides of the mouth in this verse?

sagenaija:
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On YOUR lie No.1:
According to the Koran, Mohamed was not sure whether Allah would save him:

Or do they say, 'He has forged it'? Say: 'If I have forged it, you have no power to help me against Allah.

He knows very well what you are pressing upon; He suffices as a witness between me and you; He is the All-forgiving, the All-compassionate.' Say: 'I am not an innovation among the Messengers, and I know not what shall be done with me or with you. I only follow what is revealed to me; I am only a clear warner.' S. 46:8-9

The so-called authentic narrations make it clear that Mohamed was speaking in respect to his eternal fate:

Narrated 'Um al-'Ala:
An Ansari woman who gave the pledge of allegiance to the Prophet that the Ansar drew lots concerning the dwelling of the Emigrants. 'Uthman bin Maz'un was decided to dwell with them (i.e. Um al-'Ala's family), 'Uthman fell ill and I nursed him till he died, and we covered him with his clothes. Then the Prophet came to us and I (addressing the dead body) said, "O Abu As-Sa'ib, may Allah's Mercy be on you! I bear witness that Allah has honored you." On that the Prophet said, "How do you know that Allah has honored him?" I replied, "I do not know. May my father and my mother be sacrificed for you, O Allah's Apostle! But who else is worthy of it (if not 'Uthman)?" He said, "As to him, by Allah, death has overtaken him, and I hope the best for him. By Allah, though I am the Apostle of Allah, yet I do not know what Allah will do to me," By Allah, I will never assert the piety of anyone after him. That made me sad, and when I slept I saw in a dream a flowing stream for 'Uthman bin Maz'un. I went to Allah's Apostle and told him of it. He remarked, "That symbolizes his (good) deeds." (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 58, Number 266)

AntiChristian, do you still doubt me that Islam speaks from both sides of the mouth?

AntiChristian:


Lie Number one says there is no means of Salvation in Islam so what is all this you pasted?

Samunique:
Good morning !

First of all you believe the word is also God, God the Son / God's Son / the Son of God ?

Let's continue....


John 1:14
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

According to this scripture, the Word was made flesh, in other word, a human with flesh and blood, he became another Adam ( man-kind ) for the purpose of redeeming the mankind back to YAHWEH His father.

Having been in form of a human, he was subject to trials and temptations just like every other man, and that also for a purpose. Now compare these scriptures....

Hebrews 2:14-18
Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

15. And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

16. For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

17. Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

18. For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour ( help ) them that are tempted.

Now, I quoted these scriptures and did some highlightings to show you that, Jesus being tempted by the devil was not an error but a part of redemptive plan for the salvation of man kind.

If you go back to Genesis 3, you'll see that the first Adam/Man was also subjected to that kind of trial but he failed, that's why he could not continue as the very crown of God's creation, or a small God to rule this terrestrial realm forever. He (Adam) fell for the tricks of Satan and consequently, handed over the rulership of this realm to Satan, and received the wage of death for his sin, Romans 6:23, hence the need for redemption.

When Jesus came to the world, Satan had to try him as well just as he did the first Adam, but this time he, failed. And this makes Jesus the worthy Savour, Redeemer and the Restorer of the mankind. So all these happened according to divine plan. If Jesus was not tried as a man and passed, he would not have qualified for the Redeemer's office to redeem the mankind.

First, he had to be made like the people he wanted to help, that's why he became a man, and subjected to all that every man passes through, but yet without sin !!!

Hebrews 4:15
For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

Lastly, for your last question, Jesus said that not bcs he didn't know he was going to die, after all, he had predicted this many times before his crucifixion. He made that statement ( Father, why have you forsaken me ) under excruciating pains. Remember he was a man under these circumstances.

sagenaija:

I just confirmed that Islam says there is NO ASSURANCE of salvation.
Mohamed wasn't sure where he'll end up and so are you guys.

sagenaija:
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So, you ran off all this while only to come up with this piece of ... .... what do I even call it?

Go back and read FROM YOUR BOOKS how Adam was created. Did Allah just say "Be" and Adam appeared suddenly? Or did he first form him from clay?

Did Allah say "Be" and Jesus appeared or did Mary carry him in the womb for nine months?
Was it "Be" that the Koran say Jesus came through when Mary conceived him?

Please, please, please, go back and reconcile your books and tradition. I told you, and I'm repeating it again, Islam speaks from both sides of the mouth.

So, show us from the Koran where Allah said "Be!" and Adam appeared and he again said "Be!"and Jesus appeared.

sagenaija:
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On your first post above:
Really? Can a person say the shahada without mentioning Mohamed? Can I become a Moslem by choosing not to mention the name of Mohamed in the shahada? Is Mohamed no more and example to be followed?

sagenaija:
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I quoted the Koran- Chapter 46: 8-9. I added the Islamic explanation for it from an authentic hadith, not my words; and you still come up with this?
Smh!

sagenaija:
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On your second post:
When a person wants to run away from the unsettling truth of Islam they suddenly have "better things running outside nairaland". I've seen it over and over again.

You wanted to burst lies. Now that you are confronted with FACTS that show your position to be faulty you have better things to do elsewhere.

Do you know that Allah first argued with the angels on the creation of Adam, according to the Koran? He didn't just say "Be" and he was. There was a back and forth argument between them before the creation of Adam.

The details are in Islam's books.

sagenaija:
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The issue is not about whether Allah wanted to create Adam. The issue is that the details of his creation does not agree with your assertion.

The portion of the Koran you quoted reads:
"When He decrees a matter, He ONLY says to it, 'Be,' and it is." Did you notice the highlighted? It says "He ONLY SAYS". But neither in the case of Adam nor that of Jesus did Allah ONLY SAY "Be!" and it was. There was a PROCESS.

Not to lose sight of your lies no. 2, note that the Koran DID NOT say Jesus was created by or through the Word of Allah. It says HE IS THE WORD of Allah. There is a difference in the two.

So again your argument does not stand.

While you may run off to "better things" than nairaland - whatever that means, others are being enlightened here.

AntiChristian:


Muhammad .... ......

sagenaija:

One finds it difficult at times to discuss with you guys because all you do is regurgitate Koran without being able to explain yourselves.

You said Mohamed is different from Islam. I asked if a person can say the shahada without mentioning Mohamed. Readers will confirm if you answered my very simple question.

I quoted the Koran- Chapter 46: 8-9. I added the Islamic explanation for it from an authentic hadith. You still ended up contradicting your hadith. You guys can deny even your prophet and Allah just to appear to win an argument.

You now want to tell us that Allah saying "Be" to create means something order than saying it. You want to use the magic of Islamic reinterpretation to give us your desired answer. The end justifies the means for you: As long as you can present what you think is going to get you to your desired goal how you do it doesn’t matter.

Can you show us where Allah said "Be" in creating anything?