^^^^
As usual uncle Joe is bragging again, typical CEC  unchristlike attribute.

The indisputable point remains that people went to the Temple to worship a-priori but now WE are the Temple of God. Whosoever would follow Christ should thus build the Temple (people) and not churches. Bring your gold into the Temple! Bring joy/peace/satisfaction into the Temple. Then you have served God. But the Temple is the believer beside you, not concrete and paint.

How can I watch the saints (Temples of God) be wretched/needy/poor and decide that my own priority is a building that can later be sold for profit? And then I paint it yearly whist the real Temples are suffering.

Why do I require executive chairs? Or air-conditioned spaces? Especially when the Temples of God in our midst and all about are suffering?

If you need a large space because of your large congregation, a simple large building ought suffice anyone. Reasonable plastic chairs will suffice. All the extras are a sign of pride/self-glorifying, a waste of resources and a travesty of judgment. They indicate misplaced priorities.

Lol @ all,
See, there are lots of things going on in the Christianity which can be constructively criticised/adviced.

Anyone here claiming that the churches should not be beautified, air-conditioned etc because the poor are suffering would be the biggest hypocrite if he drives air-ocnditioned cars, lives in well-furnished or well-built houses with airconditioning and other comforts since he is also a member of the 'church'. Infact the time you spend online would have been spent caring for the poor.
No one ever said the poor will not be helped but the way you guys are going about it is so hypocritical.

@nuclearboy,
If you have decided to live in penury or lack all the comforts of life, and you criticise the church based on this then I will listen to you but anything other than that, I will take your words with less than a pinch of salt.

How do we know who is living in penury or not. This is an internet forum and we don't know the personal lives of each other. I think it is best that we just address the words that people post up rather than wasting time speculating about what they are like in their personal lives.

^^

It is alright , Pastor! Such language actually shows the mindset of its users. Interestingly, some of the same team have regaled us with tales of their okada using prowess so we know not to bother with boasts.

The poster actually also displays a disproportionate amount of pride imagining that he was alluded to in my post above. Truth remains that I (we) am not speaking to these children of darkness feigning as light but to those who seek truth and whom light matters to

@Pastor AIO ,
Note the 'if'. I never said I knew, so look at my words well before makeing conclusions.

@nuclearboy ,
I throw back your criticism to you once again, if you are enjoying the comforts of life and the poor are suffering and you come forward to criticise the church because of this, then you are hypocrite. Simple!
Let your conscience (if you have one) respond to you.

Snowwy:

@Pastor AIO ,
Note the 'if'. I never said I knew, so look at my words well before makeing conclusions.

@nuclearboy ,
I throw back your criticism to you once again, if you are enjoying the comforts of life and the poor are suffering and you come forward to criticise the church because of this, then you are hypocrite. Simple!
Let your conscience (if you have one) respond to you.

While it was prompted by your post, I wasn't addressing just you but a general trend that I've noticed here on NL. You've stated quite explicitly . . .

Snowwy:


@nuclearboy,
If you have decided to live in penury or lack all the comforts of life, and you criticise the church based on this then I will listen to you but anything other than that, I will take your words with less than a pinch of salt.

. . . that your criteria for listening to what he has to say depends on the manner in which he lives his personal life. You can never know his personal life unless he invites you to his house which I doubt will ever happen, so you're basically saying that you won't listen to him - full stop. In fact you cannot listen to what most of the people here on this forum have to say, cos you do not know their personal lives. Which begs the question - What exactly is it that you are doing here since you are unwilling to listen to the co-forumites?

Pastor AIO:

While it was prompted by your post, I wasn't addressing just you but a general trend that I've noticed here on NL. You've stated quite explicitly . . .

. . . that your criteria for listening to what he has to say depends on the manner in which he lives his personal life. You can never know his personal life unless he invites you to his house which I doubt will ever happen, so you're basically saying that you won't listen to him - full stop. In fact you cannot listen to what most of the people here on this forum have to say, cos you do not know their personal lives. Which begs the question - What exactly is it that you are doing here since you are unwilling to listen to the co-forumites?

Pasor AIO,
In your haste to defend you must have glossed over the fact that I said I would 'listen' IF he was helping the poor (at least his posts before now would have shown one or two) and I will 'take his words with less than a pinch of salt' IF HE WAS not. Don't you get it?
Is it all the words of the forumites that you respond to or accept? Stop majoring on the minor here and nitpicking,
Let Nuclearboy speak for himself.

Anyway, from the abundance of the heart the 'mouth speaks' and posts will give a semblance of the personal life of the poster.

There is nothing wrong about building large luxurious churches where people can worship. However a church is part of the body of Christ and must function as such in fulfilling His commandments.

Christ Himself told us what was expected of us as individuals and as a congregation in Matthew 25:31-46.
The problem comes when a church (whose sole aim is to fulfil the commandments of Christ) allocates a disproportionate amount of resources on things that are not part of these commandments.

In other words, if a church is spending the majority of it's time and money aiding the poor, the sick and the imprisoned then it can justify a luxurious church with the remaining resources.

But a hash judgement awaits those churches that spend most of their time and money on themselves and only fulfil Gods commandments with the leftovers. A hash judgement indeed.

@grey beard
Flesh and blood did not reveal the above to you, you are truly in the spirit.

nuclearboy:

The indisputable point remains that people went to the Temple to worship a-priori but now WE are the Temple of God. Whosoever would follow Christ should thus build the Temple (people) and not churches. Bring your gold into the Temple! Bring joy/peace/satisfaction into the Temple. Then you have served God. But the Temple is the believer beside you, not concrete and paint.

How can I watch the saints (Temples of God) be wretched/needy/poor and decide that my own priority is a building that can later be sold for profit? And then I paint it yearly whist the real Temples are suffering.

Why do I require executive chairs? Or air-conditioned spaces? Especially when the Temples of God in our midst and all about are suffering?

If you need a large space because of your large congregation, a simple large building ought suffice anyone. Reasonable plastic chairs will suffice. All the extras are a sign of pride/self-glorifying, a waste of resources and a travesty of judgment. They indicate misplaced priorities.

Question: Yes we are now the temple of God (2 Corinthians 6:19), but do you believe in the Assembling and fallowshiping of the saints as we are clearly admonished not to sake in Hebrews 10:25
"Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching" (Kjv)

Perhaps the New Living Translation would help a little in the synthesis
"And LET US not NEGLECT OUR MEETING TOGETHER, as some people do, but encourage one another, especially now that the day of his return is drawing near"

1. So do you believe in this scripture?
2. What church do you fulfil this scripture (l mean where you fellowship)?
3. is it an inclusive abstract venue or a structure built to Accommodate "God-lovers". like "you"?
4. was it built by the blood of Jesus Christ or money or the contractors or building material vendors simply accepted a structure "Holy Ghost God bless you" and smiled away?

^^

I recall Christ's Words about teachers who made converts twice the children of evil that they themselves are. Here, bait as thrown before Christ is again being thrown

Our friend above will listen to me ONLY if I become a Pharisee boasting of what I do for the poor? Ridicule & rubbish! Don't we have enough of loud mouthed people here detailing how great and mighty and godly they are? Yet the Bible says not to let one hand know what they other is doing. Basically then, I'm to disobey God to please Oga snow above? But let me throw a poser -

Rochas Okorocha once sought presidency of Nigeria. Subsequently, he has built first class schools all over the federation. But his schools do NOT charge a dime. Criteria for entry is intellect/hardwork AND poverty - in effect, if you can afford it, you won't get it so the schools are for the poor and he pays for ALL - teaching, uniforms, meals, transportation.

But he is a very wealthy man. Extremely wealthy. Is the church-worshiping dude above then saying this gentleman who spends over a hundred million monthly empowering children of the poor, is not to be listened to simply because he rides an air-conditioned car?

Reasonable people compare like with like i.e. How do you compare a business minded successful individual with a family to a church? Businessman works for himself but lives fairly frugally spending a lot on the poor. Church is "supposed" to work for God but pastor lives like the Caesars and advertises the little they throw to the dogs (poor). This is more so reprehensible when you realise pastor is spending money "held" in trust whist businessman spends his own sweat.

But for the unreasoning, whatever pastor says is right while God & truth can go jump

nuclearboy:

The indisputable point remains that people went to the Temple to worship a-priori but now WE are the Temple of God. Whosoever would follow Christ should thus build the Temple (people) and not churches. Bring your gold into the Temple! Bring joy/peace/satisfaction into the Temple. Then you have served God. But the Temple is the believer beside you, not concrete and paint.

How can I watch the saints (Temples of God) be wretched/needy/poor and decide that my own priority is a building that can later be sold for profit? And then I paint it yearly whist the real Temples are suffering.

Why do I require executive chairs? Or air-conditioned spaces? Especially when the Temples of God in our midst and all about are suffering?

If you need a large space because of your large congregation, a simple large building ought suffice anyone. Reasonable plastic chairs will suffice. All the extras are a sign of pride/self-glorifying, a waste of resources and a travesty of judgment. They indicate misplaced priorities.

Question: Yes we are now the temple of God (2 Corinthians 6:19), but do you believe in the Assembling and fallowshiping of the saints as we are clearly admonished not to sake in Hebrews 10:25
"Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching" (Kjv)

Perhaps the New Living Translation would help a little in the synthesis
"And LET US not NEGLECT OUR MEETING TOGETHER, as some people do, but encourage one another, especially now that the day of his return is drawing near"

1. So do you believe in this scripture?
2. What church do you fulfil this scripture (l mean where you fellowship)?
3. is it an inclusive abstract venue or a structure built to Accommodate "God-lovers". like "you"?
4. was it built by the blood of Jesus Christ or money or the contractors or building material vendors simply accepted a structure "Holy Ghost God bless you" and smiled away?

@nuclearboy
You made sense with the temple talk because l supplied you a reference which you omitted but could kindly answer my question in simple words and avoid begging it, lets talk and make sense. Thank you

A few points to consider.

BIBLICAL BACKING

There is no example of big churches in the NT while it is obvious that house churches were the norm in the early church.

      And when he realized this, he went to the house of Mary, the mother of John who was also called Mark, where many were gathered together and were praying (Acts 12:12).

      …how I did not shrink from declaring to you anything that was profitable, and teaching you publicly [but not in church buildings, obviously] and from house to house…(Acts 20:20)

      Greet Prisca and Aquila….Also greet the church that is in their house (Rom. 16:3-5; see also Romans 16:14-15 for mention of two other probable house churches in Rome).

      The churches of Asia greet you. Aquila and Prisca greet you heartily in the Lord, with the church that is in their house (1 Cor. 16:19).

      Greet the brethren who are in Laodicea and also Nympha and the church that is in her house (Col. 4:15).

      And to Apphia our sister, and to Archippus our fellow soldier, and to the church in your house… (Philemon 1:2).

Recorded NT extends over 200 years so it was not infancy that kept the size of churches small. In effect, if building big churches is a sign of success or maturity, that means the Apostles never succeeded or matured. Also, Jesus left no such example or instruction. He made disciples without special buildings, and He told His disciples to make disciples. They would have not seen any need for special buildings. It is just that simple. When Jesus told His disciples to go into all the world and make disciples, His disciples did not think to themselves, “What Jesus wants us to do is to build buildings and give sermons to people there once a week.”

Additionally, building special buildings may even have been considered a direct violation of Christ’s commandment to not lay up treasures on the earth, wasting money on something that was entirely unnecessary, and robbing God’s kingdom of resources that could be used for transformational ministry in the lives of individuals and the society.

BIBLICAL STEWARDSHIP

Small (House) churches promote godly use of members’ resources, which is an important aspect of discipleship. No money is wasted on church buildings, owning, renting, repairing, expanding, remodeling, heating or cooling them. Consequently, what would have been wasted on buildings can be used to feed and clothe the poor, spread the gospel, and make disciples, just like it did in the book of Acts. What if the billions spent on church buildings had been used for spreading the gospel and serving the poor? It is almost unimaginable the benefits to society.

Moreover, house churches that consist of no more than twenty people could actually be overseen by “tent-making” (that is, “non-paid”) elders/pastors/overseers, a real possibility when there are a number of mature believers in a house church. Such churches would require virtually no money at all to operate. Anyway, with following the house church model, money that would be used on buildings is freed to support pastors, and so "professional" pastors should not think house churches threatens their job security. Rather, it could mean that many other men and women could realize the desire God has placed in their hearts to serve Him in vocational ministry. Does anyone wonder why there are no “youth pastors” or “children pastors” mentioned in the New Testament? Such ministries didn’t exist for the first 1900 years of Christianity. Why are they suddenly essential now?

END OF FRAGMENTED FAMILIES

Another advantage that house churches have is this: they excel at disciplining children and teens. One of the great falsehoods perpetrated by large churches today is that they provide wonderful ministries to children and youth. Yet they hide the fact that the large majority of the children who experience years of fun attending their exciting children and youth ministries never return to church again upon “leaving the nest.” Sincere "youth" pastors will acknowledge this.

The success of youth groups is today measured by attendance numbers. Youth pastors find themselves doing whatever it takes to pack them in, and that often means compromising genuine spirituality. It is a sad youth pastor who hears reports that parents are murmuring to the senior pastor that their kids are complaining about his boring or condemning messages. In effect, his sermons/practices are meant to serve Senior Pastor, large numbers and membership numbers, not God.

HAPPIER PASTORS

The expectations that most pastors encounter naturally create incredible stresses that sometimes even ruin their relationships within their own families. Pastors are discouraged for many reasons. They must be at the same time - politicians, judges, employers, psychologists, activity directors, building contractors, marriage counselors, public speakers, managers, mind readers and administrators. They often find themselves in fierce competition with other pastors to gain a larger slice of the body of Christ. They have little time for personal spiritual disciplines. Many eventually feel trapped in their vocation. Their congregations become their customers and their employers who can make life very difficult.

By comparison, the house church pastor has it easy. First, if he leads an exemplary life of a true disciple and teaches uncompromising obedience to Jesus’ commandments, few goats will have an interest in being part of his group. In fact, just meeting in houses is probably enough to keep many goats away. So he’ll mostly have sheep to pastor.

Second, he can love and disciple all his sheep on a personal basis, because he only has twelve to twenty adults to oversee. He can enjoy real closeness with them, as he is like the father of a family. He can give them the time they deserve. In the close-knit family of a house church, the members naturally help keep the pastor accountable, as he is their close friend, not an actor on a stage. They help his personal life too, as he cannot preach lies (they see his true life)

The house church pastor can spend time developing leaders of future house churches, so when the time comes to multiply, leaders are ready. He doesn’t have to watch his most promising future leaders take their gifts from the church to a Bible school in another place or break away to form ministries at cost to his congregation.

He may well have time to develop other ministry outside his local congregation. Perhaps he could minister in prisons, personal care homes or be involved in one-on-one evangelism to refugees or businesspeople. Depending on his experience, he could conceivably devote some of his time to planting other house churches, or mentoring younger house church pastors who have been raised up under his ministry.

He feels no pressure to be a Sunday-morning performer. He never needs to prepare a three-point sermon on a Saturday night, wondering how he can possibly satisfy so many people who are at so many different levels of spiritual growth. He can delight in watching the Holy Spirit use everyone at the gatherings and encourage them to use their gifts. He can be absent from meetings and everything works well even without him.

He has no building to distract him and no employees to manage.

He has no reason to compete with other pastors for clients.

There is no “church board” that exists to make his life miserable or through which political infighting becomes common. There are also no groups.

In short, he can be what he is called to be by God, and not what is imposed on him by cultural Christianity. He is not the lead actor, the president of a company, or the center of the hub. He is a disciple maker, and equips the saints.

HAPPIER (less pretentious) CONGREGATION

All true believers long for genuine relationships with other believers, because God’s love has been shed abroad in their hearts. It is what the Bible refers to as fellowship, genuine sharing of one’s life with other brothers and sisters. House churches create an environment where believers can do what believers are supposed to do, which is found in the many New Testament “one another” passages. In the house church setting, believers can exhort, encourage, edify, comfort, teach, serve and pray for one another.They know themselves.  They can provoke each other to love and good works, confess their sins to each other, bear each others burdens, and admonish one another. They can weep with those who weep and rejoice with those who rejoice. Such things don’t occur very often during the Sunday morning meetings of institutional churches where believers sit and watch. As one house church member told me, “When someone is sick within our body, I don’t take a meal to a stranger’s house because I signed up for the ‘meal ministry.’ I naturally take a meal to someone I know and love.”

True believers enjoy interaction and involvement with each other. Passively sitting and listening to irrelevant or redundant sermons year after year insults their intelligence and spirituality. Rather, they prefer having an opportunity to share the personal insights they gain concerning God and His Word, and house churches provide that opportunity. Following a biblical model rather than a cultural one, each person ”has a psalm, has a teaching, has a revelation, has a tongue, has an interpretation” (1 Cor. 14:26). In house churches, no one is lost in the crowd or excluded by a church clique.

True believers desire to be used by God in service. In a house church, there is opportunity for everyone to be used to bless others, and responsibilities are shared among all, so that no one experiences the burnout that is common among committed members of institutional churches. At the minimum, everyone can bring food to share for the common meal, what Scripture seems to refer to as the “love feast” (Jude 1:12). For many house churches, that meal follows the example of the original Lord’s Supper, which was part of an actual Passover meal. The Lord’s Supper is not “God’s holy snack.” The idea of eating a small wafer and drinking a little juice among strangers during a few seconds of a church service is utterly foreign to the Bible and to biblical house churches. The sacramental meaning of Communion is enhanced manifold during a shared meal among disciples who know & love each other.

In a house church, worship is simple, sincere and participatory, not a performance. True believers love to worship God in spirit and truth rather than dance and sing whist back-biting.

DOCTRINAL BALANCE AND TOLERATION

In the casual and open forums of small church gatherings, all teaching can be scrutinized by anyone who can read. Brothers and sisters who know and love each other are inclined to respectfully consider viewpoints that differ from theirs, and even if the group doesn’t reach a consensus, love, not doctrine, still binds them together. Any teaching by any person in the group, including elders/pastors/overseers, is subject to loving examination by anyone else, because the Real Teacher indwells every member (see 1 John 2:27). The built-in checks and balances of a biblical model help prevent it from becoming doctrinally derailed.

This is quite a contrast from the norm in modern institutional churches, where church doctrine is established from the start and not to be challenged. Consequently, bad doctrines endure indefinitely, and doctrine becomes the litmus test of acceptance. For this same reason, one point in a single sermon can result in the immediate exodus of dissenters, who all jump ship to temporarily find some “like-minded believers.” They know there is no sense in even talking to the pastor about their doctrinal disagreement. Even if he was persuaded to change his viewpoint, he would have to keep it hidden from many in the church as well as from those of higher rank within his denomination. Doctrinal differences within institutional churches produce pastors who are some of the most skilled politicians in the world, orators who speak in vague generalities and avoid anything that could result in controversy, leading everyone to think he is in their camp.

GIFTS

Each believer is able to use their Gift(s) without pressure from crowds.

@nuclearboy
Stop all this delusional strategic escapism and answer my questions, just to learn remind you again
1. So do you believe in this scripture ?
2. What church do you fulfil this scripture (l mean where you fellowship )?
3. is it an inclusive abstract venue or a structure built to Accommodate "God -lovers ". like "you "?
4. was it built by the blood of Jesus Christ or money or the contractors or building material vendors simply accepted a
structure " Holy Ghost God bless you " and smiled away ?

and just a few additions:
1. do you believe and convinced that Jesus Christ is the ONLY TRUE WAY TO GOD? if your answer is "yes" (because l won't be surprise in any case if you come up with a no), then next question
2. do you agree that it is God's will that all men should be saved and come to the knowledge of the glorious gospel of Jesus Christ thus the need to tell them?
3. what happens when they believe and accept, where and how do we accommodate and nurture them respectively in the things of God?

please the earlier you start answering this questions the better for the both of us because their is no head way for you even if you run l will come after you with these questions and for your information l still gat more for yah brodo. Thank you

Go see your fellow 'brother' Chukwudi deny the bible on the thread of beautification of the pope.
See how your follies are finding you out one by one?
Most of your fellow church critics hate the bible, are atheist and all and they are the ones that are your 'friends'.
May God have mercy.

Ol boy for the umpteenth time I would tell you that I never said I don't beleive in the bible.I only said I don't beleive in the dogma of sola bible as promulgated by martin luther i the sixteenth century.

Every tom ,d-i-c-k and harry knows that the bible did not exist until the fourth century when it was canonised by the RCC.Before then what existed was seperate scriptures

Where 2 or 3 are gathered in Christ's name, there He is.

^^ Very True, very succinct.

Even if it is 2 or 3 of you, as long as you are true believers and you gather in Christ's Name, you have become/formed a church. The Bible says all the first churches were located in existing people's homes and open spaces, not in specially constructed "palaces". Christ preached to thousands and so did Peter. We see the truth.

Conversely, if 1000 demons (who we know believe in Christ and tremble But DO NOT OBEY HIM) are gathered to do their own counsel about Jesus (i.e. to find their own solutions), do they form a church? What if it is a beautiful building that they gather inside? What if the signboard reads "Christ Point"? Has it become a church?

What if it is people controlled by the spirits of pride, lust, uncleanness, deceit and fraud? Do they constitute a "church" simply by naming it so? Jim Jones (Guyana tragedy) and the Waco man - were their congregations part of Christ's Church? If Muslims fill a building with the signboard "Church" outside, is it a church?

A church is a gathering (from 2 - whatever) of true believers WHEREVER they gather, not a signboard outside or a gathering of people who come for a mental fix or entertainment galore (no matter what they call themselves). Your fruit shows who you are, not your claims

@nuclearboy
i agree with u.
Where 2 or 3 are gathered in the genuine name of Jesus Christ, there He is. It mustn't be in one of the most expensive buildings in the world. It could be in my house, in your house, or in an open space.
I frown at some churches that spend billions of naira to erect structures that do not speak well of them. Those churches have poor members they can empower with the money they spend on acquiring material things - private jets, billion naira church structures, frivolous lifestyle etc
Most of the institutionalised church structures are entertainment centres where people enjoy themselves, listen to what they like to hear and go home fully motivated to go extra miles in achieving their worldly desires.

CEC plc recently built a three billiom maira structure which they labelled "studio" for the transmission of their filthy programmes. The place is also available for commercial use as the profit motive is paramount in cec. Isn't it foolish to spend that amount on building such a structure when the true church they ought to serve is starving spiritually, physically and morally.

KunleOshob:

CEC plc recently built a three billiom maira structure which they labelled "studio"

It's not called studio, it's called L.C.A Loveworld Convocation Arena. If the building is giving you headache , theres a yet far bigger one coming up soon . You have to get ready to collapse!

Isn't it foolish to spend that amount on building such a structure when the true church they ought to serve is starving spiritually, physically and morally.

That is the perception of your deluded mind. Cec brethren are just too wonderful . You should leave this busybody of yours . They said worst thing about Jesus . You peoples lies don't hold water.

Yet the Bible says - "work out your salvation". Seems the Bible doesn't know what it is saying. Those books like to get drunk too often and forget the real truth that salvation was got at the beginning and does not belong to those who "endure to the end"

And Paul said "I have run the good race". Maybe he was a baby Christian with milk teeth who didn't know the race was instantaneously won with confession!

No wonder Christ said "I will say to them 'away with you, workers of iniquity! I never knew you".

mabell, u are the liar in this case

nuclearboy:

Yet the Bible says - "work out your salvation". Seems the Bible doesn't know what it is saying. Those books like to get drunk too often and forget the real truth that salvation was got at the beginning and does not belong to those who "endure to the end"

And Paul said "I have run the good race". Maybe he was a baby Christian with milk teeth who didn't know the race was instantaneously won with confession!

No wonder Christ said "I will say to them 'away with you, workers of iniquity! I never knew you".

This seems to be your best of late. You only pick scriptures that suit your state of mind.

free123:

mabell, u are the liar in this case

state your case

^^^ And you only pick those that suit your jeri curled fraudster. "Bingo"!

@ nuclearboy

The values of smaller congregations cannot be denied. However, those elements can still be obtained within larger congregations, through the use of cells, home fellowships and other smaller groups.

While there are dangers in overly focusing on winning souls as an 'achievement', we need to be clear that this is important and it is the manner and motive in which this is carried out that is of importance.

We need to move away from depending on a corporate body for salvation and focus on the personal relationship with God.

^^ Your post makes sense & I on the surface, acquiesce.

The comments I made that I believe you respond to, were an offshoot of the original focus of this thread which is the trend towards seeing success as larger congregations and more palatial buildings. Jesus did preach to thousands and so did his apostles (at least we know of Peter). So it is not as though I state having a large congregation is a crime.

However, a Billion spent on a church building in this country is a travesty of good judgment. I have often wondered what would happen if a church as wealthy as that, were to open up say, a trade learning center in Kaduna, take in 100 Muslim youth monthly, feed them, house them, clothe them and empower them to return to society (with a 50K gift at end of training) as bricklayers, plumbers, carpenters etc after a year of decent life and disciplined craft study? Or would you say the hundreds of youths who butcher 4 day old children became monsters overnight? I personally think their hopelessness (I was born up north and returned there as a teenager and believe me, those guys suffer) dehumanized them. So if they die, its paradise (?) and if they live, they did something about their frustration and "have" points before Allah.

Given a reason to live, a pride in self, a future to consider, many will turn their backs on violence and you might even have won a convert aside helping avoid/reduce what Jos is today, a poster child of. Not by preaching but by giving to society & showing love to someone who may think you foolish to give him so much. The Jesus kind of love - to people who may not even appreciate your gift.

Put that against a 3 billion Naira building in Lagos and MY belief is the 3 billion building is another Babel.

On the same results being gotten from large congregations, please take a look at the "egbes" around you who attend small prayer ministries. They are mainly "egbes" because they are not exposed and battle-hardened by life and ego. We all have such small churches around us and whist they may not be on tv, we see their youth. Sadly, they (removed from the arrogance of life and the city-slicker) today seem to us "backward". They have what it is we have missed.

Basically then, I agree and state - in every gathering, there will be originals just as counterfeits. Problem is the proportion in giant ministries is ridiculous compared to the small holiness congregations.