In recent times on the property section, there has been a lot of misunderstanding, accusations and counter accusations among clients, contractors and suppliers etc. I discovered that some of this misunderstanding and claim of fraud or actual fraud are a result of minor misunderstanding, lack of communication or simply because certain construction laws or guiding rules were not followed. Eg failure of contractor to get written approvals before delivering goods, or paying too much advance than should be paid etc.


Let's discuss this by sharing VARIOUS EXPERIENCES from dealing with Clients, Contractors and Suppliers in the building industry so others can learn from it and avoid same mistakes.

Thanks.

SaydFact

saydfact:
In recent times on the property section, there has been a lot of misunderstanding, accusations and counter accusations among clients, contractors and suppliers etc. I discovered that some of this misunderstanding and claim of fraud or actual fraud are a result of minor misunderstanding, lack of communication or simply because certain construction laws or guiding rules were not followed. Eg failure of contractor to get written approvals before delivering goods, or paying too much advance than should be paid etc.


Let's discuss this by sharing VARIOUS EXPERIENCES from dealing with Clients, Contractors and Suppliers in the building industry so others can learn from it and avoid same mistakes.

Thanks.

SaydFact

It is important that client and contractors reach an agreement before the work is started. This will go a long way in resovojg any form of differences.

Following

This should be a very good and interesting thread for both clients, contractors and suppliers.
Please people come out with your past experience weither solved or unsolved. Let's try to help each other.
Thanks.

Hajji M.

mufutau55:
This should be a very good and interesting thread for both clients, contractors and suppliers.
Please people come out with your past experience weither solved or unsolved. Let's try to help each other.
Thanks.

Hajji M.

Thanks boss... The truth is, there are a lot to gain from what others have experienced.... It's a better way to avoid future problems, which is better than curing it..

Thanks....

Following...... your excellent contribution is highly appreciated my able Architect��

Following the thread.

I'll share an experience with one of my clients.

He decided to source for ceiling pop workmen online and offcourse did few research including checking their online pages for previous works.

He got this very good guys (so it seems) and some other guys. He gave the one he considered better the most difficult parts eg living room etc and the other the bedrooms etc (Yes, he divided the work into two between them)

At the end of the job, the ones he assumed better did a bad job, and the other one did a quality job. HIS DECISION WAS BASED ON WHAT HE SAW ON THEIR ONLINE PAGES, they had good branding, their workers came in company overalls and they had good site pictures that suggest they were great... The other guys just had a normal online profile.

Few days after chasing them out of his site, he visited their IG page again and to his surprise THEY DIDN'T UPLOAD ANY OF THE JOBS THEY DID FOR HIM INSTEAD THEY TOOK PICTURES OF WHAT THE OTHER GUYS DID AND UPLOADED IT AS THEIRS.

The lesson here is to clients - Don't give a contractor job based on pictures you see them present (alone) - get someone to reference them and guarantee that indeed, they're as good as they claim.

A lot of contractors are picture thieves.
Thanks

Great thread this should be.
Most times trust issues are major concern in projects.
We have done a job that we told the client we will bring materials to site in 5 days and we were able to drop the materials in 3 days, then we concluded installation will be a day after the materials were dropped which was on a Sunday and that workers will get to site by 12 p.m .
The installer for whatever reason phone was ringing few minutes after 12 but he wasn't picking up because he said he was waiting for the person they will go together and also charging at a charging station in the street.
Around 2 p.m the client called and started abusing that we kept him and his engineer on site and that we were not competent and how will he know we don't want to scam him that is why he doesn't like dealing with people online.
We said if we want to scam you we will not bring materials to site and that we haven't collected money for installation but we are installing as our agreement is that 2nd payment is when we start installation. Baba no gree was calling us all sort of names that he doesn't even understand the materials we dropped in his compound. Luckily the installer got there past 3 p.m and by next morning he has done like have of the job. Neighbors started hailing Baba whao they have not seen this kind of parapet before and it is so fast, Baba was happy.
Since the installer got to site baba didn't call us again, so when the job was completed and I asked the installer if baba has since the job, he said yes and even gave them 2k for transportation.
I now called Baba if he has since the job and he was laughing and said My Enginee yes oooh that he will send the balance like next day but it wasn't sent till like 3 days later and didn't ask him until he sent it to prove that we are not scam.

Teewhy2:
Great thread this should be.
Most times trust issues are major concern in projects.
We have done a job that we told the client we will bring materials to site in 5 days and we were able to drop the materials in 3 days, then we concluded installation will be a day after the materials were dropped which was on a Sunday and that workers will get to site by 12 p.m .
The installer for whatever reason phone was ringing few minutes after 12 but he wasn't picking up because he said he was waiting for the person they will go together and also charging at a charging station in the street.
Around 2 p.m the client called and started abusing that we kept him and his engineer on site and that we were not competent and how will he know we don't want to scam him that is why he doesn't like dealing with people online.
We said if we want to scam you we will not bring materials to site and that we haven't collected money for installation but we are installing as our agreement is that 2nd payment is when we start installation. Baba no gree was calling us all sort of names that he doesn't even understand the materials we dropped in his compound. Luckily the installer got there past 3 p.m and by next morning he has done like have of the job. Neighbors started hailing Baba whao they have not seen this kind of parapet before and it is so fast, Baba was happy.
Since the installer got to site baba didn't call us again, so when the job was completed and I asked the installer if baba has since the job, he said yes and even gave them 2k for transportation.
I now called Baba if he has since the job and he was laughing and said My Enginee yes oooh that he will send the balance like next day but it wasn't sent till like 3 days later and didn't ask him until he sent it to prove that we are not scam.

Thanks Teewhy2, a lot of people just label others as fraudster on the least possible chance..

The lesson here is to at least have a level of trust b4 dealing with anyone.. So that you don't end up accusing them unnecessarily, imagine if baba had come to NL immediately to label you as scam, many people 2 years later would search your name and see scammer post from baba WITHOUT knowing how it ended..

Keep it up and please share some more....

Yes oooh, Thank GOD it end well.
There is hardly no way not to have differences in course of carrying out a job especially a long time project that is why documentation is necessary, you can't keep all agreement off hand.
The contractor needs to also understand that it is not about what the contractor wants in a project but what the client's want. You can sell your idea and if the client buys it fine but if not just do what the client want.

From Experience,
Most clients don't keep to the rules.
That's basically the summary of it all.
Some of them are cunning and deceitful.

Some are good and have remained good till date.

Property section is basically a place where members side mostly the client which is very bad and it's loosing is value since someone that is good will all of a sudden become bad over night. What happens to his previous ratings.

Just because he/she had a hitch with a client. Abuses and abusive words would be rein on such person.

Not justifying anything but the truth is. Clients who show good sense of humor to contractors. God bless you all and the people that work for you. To the ones that keep dragging people to the mud. Well, I have nothing to say to you.

Its a faceless forum. People type what they like at their will without concern about how the recipient feels. It's a high time client respects contractors and it's high time contractors respect clients too and do what they are asked to do.

This will everyly remain an ongoing discussion because it has a lot of dimensions to it. Depending on where you are looking at it from.

If you bring out all contractual terms and conditions for na individual or private client for a residential property, he will term you overly expensive. You decide to go by the norms, he will still find something to say.

I will always go by this. No one is Saint. Develop a good working relationship between you as a client and the contractor working for you and get the best out of each other and everyone should be happy. Once there is mutual understanding between the parties. Everything should be fine.

As for property session. With the rate it's going. People who genuinely would need help are and may not find it anymore because people who ought to assist are gradually loosing interest in it and the way things are going there.

Dennis3D:
From Experience,
Most clients don't keep to the rules.
That's basically the summary of it all.
Some of them are cunning and deceitful.

Some are good and have remained good till date.

Property section is basically a place where members side mostly the client which is very bad and it's loosing is value since someone that is good will all of a sudden become bad over night. What happens to his previous ratings.

Just because he/she had a hitch with a client. Abuses and abusive words would be rein on such person.

Not justifying anything but the truth is. Clients who show good sense of humor to contractors. God bless you all and the people that work for you. To the ones that keep dragging people to the mud. Well, I have nothing to say to you.

Its a faceless forum. People type what they like at their will without concern about how the recipient feels. It's a high time client respects contractors and it's high time contractors respect clients too and do what they are asked to do.

This will everyly remain an ongoing discussion because it has a lot of dimensions to it. Depending on where you are looking at it from.

If you bring out all contractual terms and conditions for na individual or private client for a residential property, he will term you overly expensive. You decide to go by the norms, he will still find something to say.

I will always go by this. No one is Saint. Develop a good working relationship between you as a client and the contractor working for you and get the best out of each other and everyone should be happy. Once there is mutual understanding between the parties. Everything should be fine.

As for property session. With the rate it's going. People who genuinely would need help are and may not find it anymore because people who ought to assist are gradually loosing interest in it and the way things are going there.

We have had really good experience with clients here on NL and really very very bad ones too with same NL Members.

Its simply annoying that members of the thread always side the client at all times.

Most contractors swallow how badly they are been treated just because they don't want any issues or name tagging and derailing of thread posts. That doesn't mean they ain't hurt badly by clients here.

My simple advise would be. Do what works for you between you a client and a contractor to avoid all this back and forth stories here and there.

@Dennis3D
Develop a good working relationship between you as a client and the contractor working for you and get the best out of each other and everyone should be happy. Once there is mutual understanding between the parties. Everything should be fine.

For me that's the summary of it all.. The 1st thing is to develop a good working relationship, then you can discuss business after that relationship.... And hopefully every one should be fine...

Very recently (last year) - I discontinued a working relationship with a client from NL property thread.

The summary is, he contacted me 3 years back and we've been having a talking relationship about me designing his building.

In fact, I had done 3 different designs for him as he changed his choices within those years.

I have NEVER charged him or collected a penny for all those 2 years of consultation or 3 designs I did. Finally, last year when he was ready to proceed and pay me to produce his approval drawings, he asked me what is a simple question.... CAN I PRODUCE AN APPROVAL DRAWING, because he read somewhere that only registered Architectures can, he wanted to know if I was.

I immediately told him I would not be proceeding with the work, I also told him he was free to use the last design I sent to him by giving to any Architect to develop it.

My reason is simple... In those 3 years of totally free consultation, I told him about the different types of drawings (approval or construction), I told him about survey and approval etc HE NEVER ASKED ME THIS DOUBTING QUESTIONS... but in my opinion when he was finally going to pay me for something, he started doubting (in my opinion)

I told him for him to ask me that question means he doesn't trust me yet (after 3 years) and I don't work if I have the slightest hint of mistrust.

So... Build a good relationship, trust then talk about business - if people have a good relationship with you outside of business, there won't be an issue and if there ever is, it won't land on NL labeling you as scam cos they know you're not... Mess ups happen, but 1 mess up should not define you.

Thanks

saydfact:


For me that's the summary of it all.. The 1st thing is to develop a good working relationship, then you can discuss business after that relationship.... And hopefully every one should be fine...

Correct. That works fine.

Like my current clients, two from diaspora whose work are currently ongoing. The way we communicate and execute work is superb. Even though some times requests not initially captured on plan are made and by communication with mutual understanding, we are able to still execute them without going to sign any other change of plan agreements and stuff.

The simple point am making is this. Everyone can draft out a detailed agreement or contract for work but in practice or real construction things can tend to change. When they do. You communicate with your client and the client in turn has the responsibility to understand the situation and apply the principle of common sense of responsibility to take appropriate decision. So as the contractor.

Following the contract agreement to the later sometimes especially for private builds, may make one look stiff and from experience over time. Some clients don't want that. They will tell you that you ain't flexible. But that's ought to be the way to go. So in such case you have to device a means of creating a balance between both parties to reach a consensus.

- Communication is Key
- Change is Constant
- Client most times if you ask me should be considerate when making requests and managing the cycle of their protect too.
- Contractor must have the ability to manage a client as well as their requests effectively.
- Let it always be a WIN WIN Situation for both parties for smooth operations to take place.

saydfact:
Very recently (last year) - I discontinued a working relationship with a client from NL property thread.

The summary is, he contacted me 3 years back and we've been having a talking relationship about me designing his building.

In fact, I had done 3 different designs for him as he changed his choices within those years.

I have NEVER charged him or collected a penny for all those 2 years of consultation or 3 designs I did. Finally, last year when he was ready to proceed and pay me to produce his approval drawings, he asked me what is a simple question.... CAN I PRODUCE AN APPROVAL DRAWING, because he read somewhere that only registered Architectures can, he wanted to know if I was.

I immediately told him I would not be proceeding with the work, I also told him he was free to use the last design I sent to him by giving to any Architect to develop it.

My reason is simple... In those 3 years of totally free consultation, I told him about the different types of drawings (approval or construction), I told him about survey and approval etc HE NEVER ASKED ME THIS DOUBTING QUESTIONS... but in my opinion when he was finally going to pay me for something, he started doubting (in my opinion)

I told him for him to ask me that question means he doesn't trust me yet (after 3 years) and I don't work if I have the slightest hint of mistrust.

So... Build a good relationship, trust then talk about business - if people have a good relationship with you outside of business, there won't be an issue and if there ever is, it won't land on NL labeling you as scam cos they know you're not... Mess ups happen, but 1 mess up should not define you.

Thanks

Very well, now you hit it well.

Let's not voice out on NL Members who makes one do designs upon designs for them without paying for those designs.

Its experience and maturity that made you not to come to the property section to voice this. Oh Yeah. This is very common. Very very common. I have taken my time to visit a client's site, took physical measurements, produced 3 different drawings, went as far as doing 3D interior model of the designs, he liked it and all. When it's time to pay for the design so that a more detailed construction document comes out story changes. A few other members would make a request, do a design first and all...

Over time, I will be the last to start a design for a client who doesn't mobilize a percentage for his job to commence. Yes. This statement remains valid as they say experience is the best teacher and since I applied this, clients who needs Jon's to be actually done for them, I mean clients who are ready to build. None of them has any issue with mobilization before design commences.

But say it in property section, they will crucify you there like you don't have a right to demand such. Forgetting that the moment someone's gets on his system to start up a design, that's his time, brain energy, thinking process, etc automatically work has started. Some members understands this, many don't. They want you to do a complete drawing before they mobilize you. Well, I wish never to meet such people anymore. Thanks to the ones we have designed for and still designing for.

That doesn't in any way mean that we can't do free works. Oh yeah, I have done many too as a kind of assistance to clients and just members too. But those that come in disguise to use and dump Architect and contractors here are the ones am referring to. They are many on property section. I don't need to mention them. They know themselves when they read this post.

So it's a whole lot of experiences that we all have faced here in this years. We are not discouraged however because every life processes has its own challenges and I personally see such members are one of those things you meet in the course of life. Did their attitude change one from being nice to people. No. Did their deceitful acts make someone become hard to find. No. Experiences with such members only teach you lessons to learn from and better yourself.

I chose to comfortably write here because I believe this place is still new and people are easily watching and reading facts. Not busy arguing and tagging someone scam without proof like its been done in property session. Yeah, I said this because I was surprised at the way people call out people on property section and say things boldly without facts. I was shocked the day someone said on Property section that someone like me would take a client's material. Lol it sounded funny to me, in fact she said "No wonder people say, I do it". I was as shocked as you reading this. How on earth will a contractor move a client's material on site just like that. Well, like the saying goes. A thief will always call every single person thief.

The lesson that people should learn is always learn to weed out who is saying the truth and who is busy crying foul at all times. Properly section has been very very unfair to Architects, building contractors and with the way its going. Soon, those members would and should be ready to proffer the solutions that needs professional assistance on by themselves because it's getting out of hand.

Sorry for the long write up though.

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