please someone should help me here. what is God's mind about middle east islamic extremists, moderate moslems, the suppression of palestinians by israeli policy, their response etc

is the israel of today the same israel we read of in the bible?

doesn't God care about the palestinians whom he also created?

is the response of the palestinians to their suppression justified?

responde sil vous plait

i will wait for responses before deciding to look through ur questions.

darfur:

please someone should help me here. what is God's mind about middle east islamic extremists, moderate moslems, the suppression of palestinians by israeli policy, their response etc

is the israel of today the same israel we read of in the bible?

doesn't God care about the palestinians whom he also created?

is the response of the palestinians to their suppression justified?

responde sil vous plait

Really??

darfur:

please someone should help me here. what is God's mind about middle east islamic extremists, moderate moslems, the suppression of palestinians by israeli policy, their response etc

I'm wondering if those are actually well-framed questions, or just something to make us wonder if God has changed His mind about Israel.

darfur:

is the israel of today the same israel we read of in the bible?

I don't know of another 'Israel'.

darfur:

doesn't God care about the palestinians whom he also created?

He cares for everyone - including the Afghans, Pakistanis, and all Muslims - whether moderate or extremists.

darfur:

is the response of the palestinians to their suppression justified?

Nor is the Palestinian goal of annihilating Israel "justified".

i have never heard of any strong criticism of israeli policy against the palestinians in any church the way they preach against racism and injustice. is that justice?

sometimes when i see what israel does and how the jews behave i try to relate them to the jews i read about in the bible. it is hard. i'm just curious. because when pastors preach about "being in egypt" they emphasise that it is the spiritual egypt and not the one in north-east africa today. so is the israel of the bible the spiritual israel or is it the israel of today?

darfur:

i have never heard of any strong criticism of israeli policy against the palestinians in any church the way they preach against racism and injustice. is that justice?

I wonder what the UN were playing at in they way they handle Israel in deference to the Palestinians.

darfur:

sometimes when i see what israel does and how the jews behave i try to relate them to the jews i read about in the bible. it is hard. i'm just curious. because when pastors preach about "being in egypt" they emphasise that it is the spiritual egypt and not the one in north-east africa today. so is the israel of the bible the spiritual israel or is it the israel of today?

It all depends on context. The Bible speaks of two types of Egypt - the national Egypt like any other nation (Gen. 41:41) and the spiritual Egypt (Rev. 11:8).

There's also national Israel (Ezek 12:19) and spiritual Israel (Hos. 1:10; John 1:47; Rom. 2:28-29). The one thing to note is that God has not replaced national Israel with the Church --

Rom. 11:1 & 2 -- "I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. . ."

@Darfur,

the Israel today is definitely not the Israel of the bible see

Revelation 2 : 9 and I quote " I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan."

Also Revelation 3 : 9 "Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee. "

darfur:

i have never heard of any strong criticism of israeli policy against the palestinians in any church the way they preach against racism and injustice. is that justice?

What Isreali policy? A policy of defending themselves against hordes of murderers whose only goal is to wipe them off the face of the earth? Is it justice to be refered to as apes and pigs? Is it justice to have a spiritual mandate of destruction hanging over your head? Is it justice to have hizbullah and hamas rockets shelling isreali towns daily? Is it justice to have school books that daily refer to Isreal as the satan fit only to be driven into the sea? Is the hamas article 7 all about justice?
Is the iranian president's open statements to destroy isreal justice?

We only cry injustice when it comes to muslims!

darfur:

sometimes when i see what israel does and how the jews behave i try to relate them to the jews i read about in the bible. it is hard. i'm just curious. because when pastors preach about "being in egypt" they emphasise that it is the spiritual egypt and not the one in north-east africa today. so is the israel of the bible the spiritual israel or is it the israel of today?

The isreal of the bible is the very same one in existence today. Many of the ancient biblical towns are still in existence - bethlehem, capernaum, hebron, judea, samaria, nazareth e.t.c. Much of the bible and torah of today were excavated from those lands and other archeological evidence PROVES conclusively that the isreal of the bible remains the same today.

It is muslim appologists, CCCA members and arabs who deny the very truth staring them in the face by whipping up theories of ashkenazi or European jews that do not exist. The same muslims cannot point to anything beyond the al aksa mosque (built during the ottoman empire lesss than 1000 years ago on the very same ground that once bore the majestic Jewish temple in Jerusalem!) that are screaming the loudest of having their roots in isreal.

i appreciate ur sentiments david, but that is one side of the story. if you take an objective look at the situation in the middle east you'll discover that contrary to general opinion, israel is not just a victim, but to be honest, on many occassions they look like the oppressor.
the battle of lebanon last summer was one big exposure of some grave deviation of justice and morality all in the name of security.

truth is, the policy on ground in israel now is enough reason for peace never to exist there forever. how can the palestinians willingly elect hamas and you deny them that and yet the world is talking of democracy? go into recent history of palestine. from 1948 to date. the situation is overwhelmingly lopsided. how can justice reign there?

@ darfur, you have done nothing but parrot the same palestinian propaganda we have heard for yrs.

darfur:

i appreciate your sentiments david, but that is one side of the story. if you take an objective look at the situation in the middle east you'll discover that contrary to general opinion, israel is not just a victim, but to be honest, on many occassions they look like the oppressor.
the battle of lebanon last summer was one big exposure of some grave deviation of justice and morality all in the name of security.

If you bothered to look at the Lebanon crisis "objectivel" it should be obvious to you who the aggressor was. There is the muslim tendency to only look at Isreal's RESPONSE while conveniently ignoring WHY the conflict started in the first place. Isreal quit Lebanon in 2000 YET for 6 yrs Hezbollah continued to use southern Lebanon border with Isreal to launch rocket attacks and missiles on defenceless Isreali citizens. Where was your "outrage" then?
Hezbollah launched a daring raid into Isreal killing 4 soldiers, capturing 1 and wounding others - yet NO outrage from the muslim hypocrites. Only to turn around and scream "grave deviation of justice and morality" after the Jews decided to fight back IN SELF DEFENCE! there is only so long as you can sit back and watch quassam rockets and katyusha missiles with ball bearings landing on your citizens without doing nothing!

darfur:

truth is, the policy on ground in israel now is enough reason for peace never to exist there forever.

what is this mysterious "policy" you all use as a convenient excuse?
the same policy that forced residents of Gaza to take refuge in Isreal?
the same policy that has seen millions of Isreali arabs take up Isreali citizenship with full rights, a right that is DENIED every Isreali citizen in palestine and several other muslim countries?
Have you looked up Hamas article 7? Does their own policy sound like enough reason to hope that peace will return to palestine one day?

darfur:

how can the palestinians willingly elect hamas and you deny them that and yet the world is talking of democracy?

How did Isreal deny the citizens of palestine their right to be governed under Hamas? By refusing to donate THEIR OWN money to fund a government that;
a. does not recognize its right to exist and
b. Has at its foremost goal the destruction of Isreal?

Was it Isreal that went on rampage in Gaza killing innocent citizens? If indeed Isreal is an enemy to the palestinians why is Gaza still getting all its electricity, water and gas supplies from Isreal? Why are they not demanding that from Hamas?
Why did citizens of Gaza prefer to rush to the Eretz border with Isreal seeking refuge from the onslaught of Hamas?

What did the islamic community do to help Hamas rather than cry foul after US, the EU and Isreal withheld their own tax payers funds?

darfur:

go into recent history of palestine. from 1948 to date. the situation is overwhelmingly lopsided. how can justice reign there?

What situation? What is the history of the "palestinians" before 1948?
The present land of Jordan today is more than 75% of the former land of Palestine prior to 1922 and yet you accuse the Isrealis of injustice for agreeing to a mere 15% of a land that had been historically theirs?
What else do you want Isreal to do? Vacate their land for a bunch of belligerent murderers?

"palestinians" are refugees in Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt e.t.c. and yet you all cry injustice at Isreal ONLY!

Lol. . . my dear davidylan, easy on darfur. The questions he offered are sincere, and I can bet that many people have the same concerns. At least, we used to think that the Jews were more troublesome. . . until I found out about issues yo've mentioned that hardly anyone in the Middle East cares to honestly examine.

The State of Israel was formed in the year 1948 A.D and therefore is not the same as the bibical Israel as some people would have us be[b]lie[/b]ve.

Also there we are further thrown in confusion with statement like this "

It all depends on context. The Bible speaks of two types of Egypt - the national Egypt like any other nation (Gen. 41:41) and the spiritual Egypt (Rev. 11:.

"

Let's set the record straight, you have the original Tamareans (falsely called Egypt by the Alexander the Greek) and you have the Hyksos (cauasian settlers) who also called themselves Egypt from the Greek word Eyptos meaning those whose faces are burnt by the SUN. Just ask your greek friends what Eyptos means.

The original Tamareans (Egiptians) were Negroid, Nuwbun who became Nubian (New beings) from mixing with Cauasians. The whole of Africa was called Egypt by the Greeks and not just one small part of it as it is known today.

The Book of Revelation was written in the year 98 A.D by Yashua El Massiah (Revelation 1 : 1) and it was revealed by John. It purpose was to set the recoed straight, in regards the lies that were told in the Gospels of Matthew, Luke, Mark and John which was written in 41 A.D concerning the death of Yashua in Jerusalem, because Yashua (so -called Jesus) never died in Jerusalem but in Egypt.

Revelation 11 : 8 and I quote " And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. "

The bible writers re-revised and re-edited the book of Revelation and added this phrase "where also our Lord was crucified".

It was Judas who was cruxified and not Yashua according to the Koran and the Gospel (book) of Barnabas, and Barnabas was more reliable that Saul (Paul) as he kept the commandment of Moses which Paul sought to destroy.

This is why the Book of Revelation was revealed to undo the lies that Paul had told in his letters (Epistles).
Paul admitted lying in Romans 3 : 7 "For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?"

You will find his lies in the book of Acts written by Luke a gentile who never saw Yashua. Moreover, Yashua commanded his disciples not to go in the way of the Gentile. Yet the Whole New testament was written by Gentiles. That's why you have the book of Revelation to warn us of this plot of the devils in flesh.

Spiritual Egypt, yeah right. So where is that then. You are later going to try and tell us there is a spiritual England or a spiritual Nigeria or a spiritual USA. C'mom Stop that pilgrim.1.

Darfur, the promise land is Africa, that is where the oil, Gold, Uranium, Platium and 50% of the world's resources are.
The devil has led us into believing the promised land is in Israel.

Why do you think the pale arabs are killing our brothers in Darfur, Sudan. This is the same thing they (pale cauasians) did during the 7 and 8 th Century A.D Invasion. When many tribes (Yorubas, Ashanti etc, etc) had to flee to the jungles of west africa.

the promised land is Africa? ride on mr comedian!

@davidylan,
there is no excuse for the excessive use of force in the lebanon violence last year. that some dissidents attacked israel from southern lebanon was not enough reason to invade a nation. lebanon is a weak nation. the govt is struggling with hezbollah for control. and then hezbollah commits as usual against israel. then israel decends on hezbollah lebanon with the maximum possible fire. is it fair?
if so then the british govt should decend on nigeria should in any event those miscreants in the niger-delta kill any briton. yes, that's it. an american has been shot in port-harcourt, if he dies, the US should decend on nigeria with the maximum possible fire.
answer me david, is it right?
let's be objective, we may love israel b/c of the bible etc, i understand. i admire israel too, but one thing i've come to understand in the UK is how unfair the world is. God also loves those lebanese. there are christains in lebanon too. isael also decended on those xtain neighbourhoods. lives were lost. innocent lives david. those guys are innocent people just like you.

let me ask you a question david. i dont know your tribe in nigeria (ibo, hausa , etc i dont know) but let's assume you are hausa, gentle, law abiding and industrious. living in owerri. and there is a riot in kaduna where ibos are killed (something that happens regularly) will you like it if the ibos decend on you in the name of retaliation? will you david?

many of those guys in lebanon who died had nothing, absolutley nothing to do with hezbollah. nothing to do with the kidnapping of israeli soldiers. they were just going their bizness and they were killed and yet you find it hard to criticise their execution b/c they are lebanese. under heavy violence that even chinese UN workers were killed.

I hate injustice, injustice can never be corrected by injustice. israel may be acting like a victim, but the statistics coming from the middle east shows that the palestinians may well be the real victims

please we are all God's children o

davidylan:

the promised land is Africa? ride on mr comedian!

hey, whats wrong with africa being the promised land? hey there's milk and honey back in africa you know

Aproko:

hey, whats wrong with africa being the promised land? hey there's milk and honey back in africa you know

Finland has milk and honey as much as Denmark. Ask those in Copenhagen where they get the dairy products for their popular chocolates.

@darfur,

darfur:

there is no excuse for the excessive use of force in the lebanon violence last year. that some dissidents attacked israel from southern lebanon was not enough reason to invade a nation. lebanon is a weak nation. the govt is struggling with hezbollah for control. and then hezbollah commits as usual against israel. then israel decends on hezbollah lebanon with the maximum possible fire. is it fair?

There's actually no excuse for either parties, so asking if it was fair with regards to Israel's response is simply outa the question. You should as well ask just what exactly Lebanon did that was "fair".

darfur:

if so then the british govt should decend on nigeria should in any event those miscreants in the niger-delta kill any briton. yes, that's it. an american has been shot in port-harcourt, if he dies, the US should decend on nigeria with the maximum possible fire.

If your analogy has any substance in it, it sounds like you're making a case of Lebanon killing only one Israeli to have merited the "unfair" response of the latter. Do you care to edit your misconception?

darfur:

let's be objective, we may love israel b/c of the bible etc, i understand. i admire israel too, but one thing i've come to understand in the UK is how unfair the world is. God also loves those lebanese. there are christains in lebanon too. isael also decended on those xtain neighbourhoods. lives were lost. innocent lives david. those guys are innocent people just like you.

Wait, wait. Should we then be reading that the lives lost from Lebanon's playing happy fingers were not innocent lives - and so they could be dispensed with? I'm wondering here that you tend to be looking at issues from only one side.

darfur:

many of those guys in lebanon who died had nothing, absolutley nothing to do with hezbollah. nothing to do with the kidnapping of israeli soldiers. they were just going their bizness and they were killed and yet you find it hard to criticise their execution b/c they are lebanese. under heavy violence that even chinese UN workers were killed.

May I repeat as above: "There's actually no excuse for either parties, so asking if it was fair with regards to Israel's response is simply outa the question."

darfur:

I hate injustice, injustice can never be corrected by injustice. israel may be acting like a victim, but the statistics coming from the middle east shows that the palestinians may well be the real victims

please we are all God's children o

Lol, perhaps the 6-day war of 1967 would be a good place to start before making a sweeping remark that the Palestinians are the "real" victims. Don't act it, darfur.

Kuns:

It was Judas who was cruxified and not Yashua according to the Koran

You're such a joker, that's why nobody takes you seriously. Please show where in the Qur'an it is so written that it was Judas who was crucified.

@pilgrim
you'll notice the 2nd to the last paragraph where i said injustice cant be corrected with injustice. so i acknowledge that killing or kidnapping israeli soldiers is wrong and there is no excuse whatsoever for it. but as a UK resident, we are bombarded by BBC/CNN mafia and what we see is one side of the story most of the time.
i have had to meet people of middle eastern origin face to face and i've also met israeli citizens face to face and i've spoken to both. things dont seem to be right. the palestinians i've spoken to look like victims to me. not that the isrealis look like predators though, but it's like israel over reacts.

there is no justification for hamas either for wanting to destroy israel. (thank God they cant) but truth is, israel is far stronger than all those guys and we should put that into consideration and so israel should show constraint.

leaving gaza was an expensive but admirable stuff from sharon. (peace can never be too expensive) that kind of stuff may be attempted to give peace a chance

i'm very much concerned about those innocent lives lost on both sides

@darfur,

darfur:

you'll notice the 2nd to the last paragraph where i said injustice can't be corrected with injustice. so i acknowledge that killing or kidnapping israeli soldiers is wrong and there is no excuse whatsoever for it. but as a UK resident, we are bombarded by BBC/CNN mafia and what we see is one side of the story most of the time.
i have had to meet people of middle eastern origin face to face and i've also met israeli citizens face to face and i've spoken to both. things don't seem to be right. the palestinians i've spoken to look like victims to me. not that the isrealis look like predators though, but it's like israel over reacts.

Talk of over-reactions, it might interest you to look a bit closer at the Palestinians themselves and see what they think of Israel - especially long before the recent case that seems to be the seed of your worries. I've not met that many honest people of middle eastern origin who are willing to speak candidly on such issues; but the few I've met, while admitting that the Palestinians have their own problems to contend with, are yet not happy with Israel for any reason at all!

So, this has very little to do with how you or I feel about this situation. It has more to do with what actually is happening on either side.

darfur:

there is no justification for hamas either for wanting to destroy israel. (thank God they can't) but truth is, israel is far stronger than all those guys and we should put that into consideration and so israel should show constraint.

Do you realize that Israel started from scratch and built themselves to where they are today - with very little (if any at all) help from outside? It was not until recently when I tried studying the historical antecedents to the 6-day war and the stake holders, that I came round understanding why many see Israel as over-reactive.

darfur:

leaving gaza was an expensive but admirable stuff from sharon. (peace can never be too expensive) that kind of stuff may be attempted to give peace a chance

Lol, darfur. Ask yourself why Sharon actually compromised on Gaza and called upon Israel to give grounds. That was an experiment - a failed one at that which the media are very quick to sweep under the carpet. It was supposed to be one of the few things designed to orchestrate the so-called peace in the middle east and make everyone happy. However, as is now obvious to honest minds, the Muslim Arabs are not looking for the sort of peace that lives Israel breathing - they would rather Israel was annihilated!

darfur:

i'm very much concerned about those innocent lives lost on both sides

Everyone, I'm sure, is concerned about any casualties in any such episodes.

israel built themselves from the scratch, but not entirely without outside help. israel has always had outside help since it was formed. anyway, it is a great nation. Thank God
what history did you read of the 6 day war? - from western point of view. innit?
all i'm saying is israel should be more gentle with those guys.
look at the UK, with all the terror threats the asian british are still free to live happily in the UK and are not harrassed as much as it is done in israel, yet the asians in the UK feel very embittered, how much more those in israel. they will always feel like tearing israel apart (thank God they cant) peace cant grow in that kind of environment

Why do you suppose that the Asians in Britain are angst against Israel, if I may ask?

Second, yep - I read not just the Western flavoured history about Israel (which for the most part is not sympathetic); but I also read a few middle eastern and Asian thinkers as well. At least, European authors cannot deny the one question of why they exposed Israel to their enemy allies in that 1967 war. At such a critical moment, for Israel to have emerged victorious should also make you think outside the box.

Anyway, How can you be in the middle and be in the same at the same time?

Relegion has confused you people into think the promised land in somewhere where it is not.

50% of the world natural resources comes from Nigeria alone.

Why people from every continent struggling for investment in Africa, you will find the China, India, Americans, English, Germany Lebanese, Iranians everyone is in Africa (Nigeria). Except the Nigerians themselves who think the promised land is in America.