For me I don't think it's necessary, it gives the preacher away as having complex issues needing validation from people. I think he should be able to pick that up from the reactions and responses from the people.

seyi360:
For me I don't think it's necessary, it gives the preacher away as having complex issues needing validation from people. I think he should be able to pick that up from the reactions and responses from the people.

E be like say u dey read my mind .

Interestingly enough, I encountered a situation (in the past) where this happened.
The pastor wanted encouragement, but didn't realize (I guess) that doing so borders on narcissism....pride.....vanity....worldliness...ego...competition...false sense of security etc.
He wanted to know how he was doing practically each week after his sermons.

He even went so far as to wanting to practice his sermon (via me listening) earlier in the week before actual service later that week.
I think he wanted "feed-back" because I have, in times past, told a few preachers that a particular sermon really spoke to my soul--and that God had used him). I am careful to say "that God used him" even when the message cut me in half.
Cause it is none other than Holy Spirit speaking through willing and "called" vessels....
It's not about a person.....rather God speaking through the person.
However there is a thin line between encouragement, contructive and destructive criticism..which can become a temptation for the preacher.
He could become "man-dependent" instead of "God-dependent".

Anyhow, I respectfully declined the sermon "practice" offer before service that week, and told him that he needed to pray to the Holy Spirit & prayerfully study about what exactly to preach about that week.


What God may tell a prayerful, humble and sincere pastor should not affect "how" the congregation receives or receives "not" the message.
The affirmation, honestly, should come from the spouse...if anyone.
When a pastor repeatedly experience ts that from the congregation, he borders on a "performance" rather than a sacred calling. It no longer is about God, and becomes about him performing.
That's why many pastors should not be in the pulpits.
The pastoral ministry call is for very few men....
Remember how the prophets of old had to give some really tough messages to the people....God ordained messages that spoke to folks' souls....
We, as the congregation, don't help the situation when we idolize and place pastors on pedestals...flatter and pet their ego's. We ALL are human...and have battles against sin in our lives.
I am sure that when a surrendered pastor has spent time in prayer before standing before a congregation to give a divinely inspired message--understanding the sacred role of being a mouthpiece for God regardless of how the message is received--he can rest assured that God is pleased...

Eviana:

Interestingly enough, I encountered a situation (in the past) where this happened.
The pastor wanted encouragement, but didn't realize (I guess) that doing so borders on narcissism....pride.....vanity....worldliness...ego...competition...false sense of security etc.
He wanted to know how he was doing practically each week after his sermons.

He even went so far as to wanting to practice his sermon (via me listening) earlier in the week before actual service later that week.
I think he wanted "feed-back" because I have, in times past, told a few preachers that a particular sermon really spoke to my soul--and that God had used him). I am careful to say "that God used him" even when the message cut me in half.
Cause it is none other than Holy Spirit speaking through willing and "called" vessels....
It's not about a person.....rather God speaking through the person.
However there is a thin line between encouragement, contructive and destructive criticism..which can become a temptation for the preacher.
He could become "man-dependent" instead of "God-dependent".

Anyhow, I respectfully declined the sermon "practice" offer before service that week, and told him that he needed to pray to the Holy Spirit & prayerfully study about what exactly to preach about that week.


What God may tell a prayerful, humble and sincere pastor should not affect "how" the congregation receives or receives "not" the message.
The affirmation, honestly, should come from the spouse...if anyone.
When a pastor repeatedly experience ts that from the congregation, he borders on a "performance" rather than a sacred calling. It no longer is about God, and becomes about him performing.
That's why many pastors should not be in the pulpits.
The pastoral ministry call is for very few men....
Remember how the prophets of old had to give some really tough messages to the people....God ordained messages that spoke to folks' souls....
We, as the congregation, don't help the situation when we idolize and place pastors on pedestals...flatter and pet their ego's. We ALL are human...and have battles against sin in our lives.
I am sure that when a surrendered pastor has spent time in prayer before standing before a congregation to give a divinely inspired message--understanding the sacred role of being a mouthpiece for God regardless of how the message is received--he can rest assured that God is pleased...

Couldn't have been said better, the main reason for all the validation sought after is the disconnection with the Holy Spirit.

I can understand and patiently let a young minister outgrow that phase of his pulpit ministry.
However, he is not expected to remain there. Nevertheless, there is nothing wrong in seeking an improvement in your pulpit skills.
The preferred way to get that feed back is to record the preachings and listen to it afterwards to make necessary corrections and improvements.
Perhaps, a Bible reference was made wrongly or an irrelevant illustration or story that was shared spontaneously. All of that can be honestly reviewed by the preacher towards a better presentation subsequently.

For him to ask, it tells you that "he does not know what he (say) do"

seyi360:


Couldn't have been said better, the main reason for all the validation sought after is the disconnection with the Holy Spirit.

I can understand and patiently let a young minister outgrow that phase of his pulpit ministry.
However, he is not expected to remain there. Nevertheless, there is nothing wrong in seeking an improvement in your pulpit skills.
The preferred way to get that feed back is to record the preachings and listen to it afterwards to make necessary corrections and improvements.
Perhaps, a Bible reference was made wrongly or an irrelevant illustration or story that was shared spontaneously. All of that can be honestly reviewed by the preacher towards a better presentation subsequently.

Oh ok...you were talking moreso about a young pastor....although temptation will be great for him too newly starting out.
I can, however, understand the bolded totally. You are right. That's a good suggestion too...makes sense. Or have a "seasoned" or "godly" elder or two offer some suggestions.
You know what I've learned?
After sermons, while exiting the church & shaking the pastor's hands, or even at a later time, some members will individually let the pastor know "how" they felt about the message....be it "good", "bad", or "ugly"..without even him having to ask!


Thanks for your reply.

seyi360:
For me I don't think it's necessary, it gives the preacher away as having complex issues needing validation from people. I think he should be able to pick that up from the reactions and responses from the people.

Why not? He is running a business there in his church and it behooves him to make sure his audience is effectively entertained or he will lose business.

Asking is not bad especially for young Sunday school teachers like us. To me it's a sign of humility and willingness to improve and grow.

Sometimes you need to know that your congregation heard you well and understand.

If a young minister is not getting feedback when he is sliding into heresy, how would he know?

We are still human afterall. Even Jesus Christ sometimes ask his disciples questions about himself and what he teaches them

FreelanceRebel:
Asking is not bad especially for young Sunday school teachers like us. To me it's a sign of humility and willingness to improve and grow.
Sometimes you need to know that your congregation heard you well and understand.
If a young minister is not getting feedback when he is sliding into heresy, how would he know?
We are still human afterall. Even Jesus Christ sometimes ask his disciples questions about himself and what he teaches them

Interesting you put it way. You mention that asking for feedback is a sign of humility and willingness to improve and grow. But here's a thought, aren't teachings of this sort, if truly linked to the truth of Jesus Christ, meant to come directly from the Spirit of Truth Himself?
Isn't humility and growth solely the purview of the Spirit of Truth since He is given us as the only Teacher, Counselor, Guide, Lead to those who are followers of Jesus Christ?

If yes, then what is the essence of asking the audience for their feedback? Is it meant to help convince the Spirit of God of a possible need to change direction or improve His delivery?

Kobojunkie:
Interesting you put it way. You mention that asking for feedback is a sign of humility and willingness to improve and grow. But here's a thought, aren't teachings of this sort, if truly linked to the truth of Jesus Christ, meant to come directly from the Spirit of Truth Himself?
Isn't humility and growth solely the purview of the Spirit of Truth since He is given us as the only Teacher, Counselor, Guide, Lead to those who are followers of Jesus Christ?

If yes, then what is the essence of asking the audience for their feedback? Is it meant to help convince the Spirit of God of a possible need to change direction or improve His delivery?

While the spirit of God is working, human being still remains human and is still subject to the flesh. With this in view, human beings can make utterances or actions not inspired by God. Moses, Elijah, David, Peter, even Judas are biblical example of Spiritual person who missed it

FreelanceRebel:
While the spirit of God is working, human being still remains human and is still subject to the flesh. With this in view, human beings can make utterances or actions not inspired by God. Moses, Elijah, David, Peter, even Judas are biblical example of Spiritual person who missed it

When such happens, is the right thing then to do to ask the audience for reviews or to ask God for forgiveness for your flesh get in the way of His teaching His Truth?

seyi360:
For me I don't think it's necessary, it gives the preacher away as having complex issues needing validation from people. I think he should be able to pick that up from the reactions and responses from the people.

A minister of God who preached from the heart as inspired of God does not need human endorsement . However .There is a place for feedback from people’s perception of you

Matthew 16:13 (KJV)
13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?

Matthew 16:15 (AMP)
15 He said to them, But who do you [yourselves] say that I am?

But that feedback is to know the state of the people and the level of comprehension .

But a preacher who has issues with speech may need to ask from time to time feed back so as to improve his communication . That’s only on technical level .

Kobojunkie:
When such happens, is the right thing then to do to ask the audience for reviews or to ask God for forgiveness for your flesh get in the way of His teaching His Truth?

Certainly you won't go about asking everyone, you either ask your equals or superior. Feedback is very important and i think you are getting my opinion about it wrongly

When Jesus was asking his disciples "what do people say the son of man is" and later asked "who do you think i am" was he looking for validation or feedback? - Q1

If a clergymen preached or taught error, he can only ask for forgiveness only when he is aware of his errors. What will happen if he does not realize that? - Q2

FreelanceRebel:
Certainly you won't go about asking everyone, you either ask your equals or superior. Feedback is very important and i think you are getting my opinion about it wrongly

I believe we are clear at this point how "feedback" of the sort described has nothing to do with God or the teachings of God.

FreelanceRebel:
When Jesus was asking his disciples "what do people say the son of man is" and later asked "who do you think i am" was he looking for validation or feedback? - Q1

Let's take a close look at Jesus Christ supposedly soliciting feedback from His audience. In the passage below, Jesus asks His disciples who the people think Him to be and then who they think Him to be.

Matthew 16 vs 13-20(ESV)
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13. Now when Jesus came into the district of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say that the Son of Man is?” 14. And they said, “Some say John the Baptist, others say Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”
15. He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”[/b]
[b] 16. Simon Peter replied, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
17. And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven.
18. And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock[b] I will build my church, and the gates of hell[c] shall not prevail against it.
19. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed[d] in heaven.”
20. Then he strictly charged the disciples to tell no one that he was the Christ.

Peter answered the question correctly, and what followed is Jesus Christ revealing even more Truth to him, Peter, in response.

Now, would you say in this case, that Jesus Christ solicited feedback from His disciples in order to know how well He was doing, or was it so He could use the opportunity to teach them even more of the Truth that is He?

FreelanceRebel:
If a clergymen preached or taught error, he can only ask for forgiveness only when he is aware of his errors. What will happen if he does not realize that? - Q2

Such a person is not fit to teach anyone of the Kingdom of God, because such a person obviously does not have the Spirit of God in Him. It would be a case of the blind leading the blind... at the end, the man and all those who learn from him will fall in the same ditch.

seyi360:
For me I don't think it's necessary, it gives the preacher away as having complex issues needing validation from people. I think he should be able to pick that up from the reactions and responses from the people.

He may have his reasons...........
Now certain christian believers claim to understand what is being preached till when you ask question and you'll be surprised.


In where I worship what we do is to ask what each and everyone understands or derived from the preaching. This is done mostly on the week day programs.

There's a big difference between having a head knowledge and actually understanding it.

Kobojunkie:

Such a person is not fit to teach anyone of the Kingdom of God, because such a person obviously does not have the Spirit of God in Him. It would be a case of the blind leading the blind... at the end, the man and all those who learn from him will fall in the same ditch.

Hmmmm
Do you know how many erroneous preaching out there been taught in churches since the era of the establishment of the othordox, roman catholic and protestant churches....


Would you also say such preachers don't have the Spirit of God in them?

bixton:
Hmmmm
Do you know how many erroneous preaching out there been taught in churches since the era of the establishment of the othordox, roman catholic and protestant churches....

I am well aware that all of your so-called men and women of God have absolutely nothing to do with God and the teachings of Jesus Christ Himself.
Jesus Christ warned His followers of all those who would come to them preaching doctrines and traditions of men, which are lies that have so far confirmed what Jesus Christ said, nullified the power of God in the lives of those teachers and their followers.

bixton:
Would you also say such preachers don't have the Spirit of God in them?

Anyone who submits to the leading of the Spirit of God, as Jesus Christ commanded, would not teach lies... the Spirit of Truth cannot teach lies.

Kobojunkie:
I am well aware that all of your so-called men and women of God have absolutely nothing to do with God and the teachings of Jesus Christ Himself.
Jesus Christ warned His followers of all those who would come to them preaching doctrines and traditions of men, which are lies that have so far confirmed what Jesus Christ said, nullified the power of God in the lives of those teachers and their followers.
Anyone who submits to the leading of the Spirit of God, as Jesus Christ commanded, would not teach lies... the Spirit of Truth cannot teach lies.

From teaching in error to lies.
What exactly are you?

bixton:
From teaching in error to lies.
What exactly are you?

What do you mean by teaching "in error"?

Jesus Christ, the Truth of God taught us exactly what we need to teach others... His teachings are what He called the Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven -the Truth of God. When we go off, spinning our own teachings which we eventually attempt to append to the teachings of the New Covenant, Jesus Christ, what we teach then are lies, according to Jesus Christ Himself. Read Mark 7 to find where Jesus Christ warns against this teaching of doctrines and traditions/rules of men, which are in fact lies, as if we are teachings belong to God.

Kobojunkie:
What do you mean by teaching "in error"?

Jesus Christ, the Truth of God taught us exactly what we need to teach others... His teachings are what He called the Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven -the Truth of God. When we go off, spinning our own teachings which we eventually attempt to append to the teachings of the New Covenant, Jesus Christ, what we teach then are lies, according to Jesus Christ Himself. Read Mark 7 to find where Jesus Christ warns against this teaching of doctrines and traditions/rules of men, which are in fact lies, as if we are teachings belong to God.

I asked again.......what are you?

Now there's a difference between erroneous teachings and telling lies.

Erroneous teachings comes where the preacher does not clearly understand that which he is quoting and trying to explain. Those who fall in this category will correct themselves sometime in future as they continue in the work.

Lies is 2 ways. Those who deliberately twist God's word to outright gullible listeners while the order is preaching the doctrine of men as the word of God.

bixton:
I asked again.......what are you?

A human being?

bixton:
Now there's a difference between erroneous teachings and telling lies.
Erroneous teachings comes where the preacher does not clearly understand that which he is quoting and trying to explain. Those who fall in this category will correct themselves sometime in future as they continue in the work.

I understand what you are attempting to say but isn't a lie still just that... a lie... i.e. not the Truth?

bixton:
Lies is 2 ways. Those who deliberately twist God's word to outright gullible listeners while the order is preaching the doctrine of men as the word of God.

Do you know why Jesus Christ had His disciples train under Him for at least 3 and a half years?
I believe it is so they are truly grounded in the truth of His teaching. That way, His teaching is written clearly on the tablets of their hearts, even though He also provided for His Spirit to remind them of all the same Truths.

When a preacher goes out, teachings in error, what he does is introduce lies(even if done in error) in the minds of those whom he encounters -instead of the Truth of God. If upon realizing his error, he is not able to go back to the very same to correct his mistake, or those lies have already been transmitted to others, those are souls that may never have a chance to learn the Truth because what was planted instead was a lie.

That is why Jesus Christ warned, not just against false teachers and prophets who will come in His name to teach lies, but also against blind teachers who will also end up

Matthew 12 vs 13-14 (ESV)
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12. Then the followers came to Jesus and asked, “Do you know that the Pharisees are upset about what you said?”
13. Jesus answered, “Every plant that my Father in heaven has not planted will be pulled up by the roots.
14. Stay away from the Pharisees. They lead the people, but they are like blind men leading other blind men. And if a blind man leads another blind man, both of them will fall into a ditch.”

There are so many of your mega-church pastors out there, even there in Nigeria, whose mouths are filled with nothing but lies. Many of them don't even know the Truth of Jesus Christ but have been preaching those lies for many decades and so many millions have grown and raised their children on those lies. Now, someone might argue that those Pastors tell those "lies" in error, but they are lies nonetheless, and many of those who have been "nurtured" by those lies for most of their lives have become addicted to the lies, so blind that it is hard to get them to consider the possibility of the Truth of God.

Now, God is not going to change His Truth in order to accommodate those who were misled by these blind teachers and their followers who run in the 10's of millions. The Truth has been available for each and everyone to glean for the past 2000 years, so there are no excuses for these blind leaders and their blind followers. Now, consider what their end will be for those the Truth does not reach before it is too late?

It would be better for one to shut his mouth completely than to spread a lie in the name of God, even if done in error, don't you think?

Kobojunkie:
A human being?
I understand what you are attempting to say but isn't a lie still just that... a lie... i.e. not the Truth?
Do you know why Jesus Christ had His disciples train under Him for at least 3 and a half years?
I believe it is so they are truly grounded in the truth of His teaching. That way, His teaching is written clearly on the tablets of their hearts, even though He also provided for His Spirit to remind them of all the same Truths.

When a preacher goes out, teachings in error, what he does is introduce lies(even if done in error) in the minds of those whom he encounters -instead of the Truth of God. If upon realizing his error, he is not able to go back to the very same to correct his mistake, or those lies have already been transmitted to others, those are souls that may never have a chance to learn the Truth because what was planted instead was a lie.

That is why Jesus Christ warned, not just against false teachers and prophets who will come in His name to teach lies, but also against blind teachers who will also end up

There are so many of your mega-church pastors out there, even there in Nigeria, whose mouths are filled with nothing but lies. Many of them don't even know the Truth of Jesus Christ but have been preaching those lies for many decades and so many millions have grown and raised their children on those lies. Now, someone might argue that those Pastors tell those "lies" in error, but they are lies nonetheless, and many of those who have been "nurtured" by those lies for most of their lives have become addicted to the lies, so blind that it is hard to get them to consider the possibility of the Truth of God.

Now, God is not going to change His Truth in order to accommodate those who were misled by these blind teachers and their followers who run in the 10's of millions. The Truth has been available for each and everyone to glean for the past 2000 years, so there are no excuses for these blind leaders and their blind followers. Now, consider what their end will be for those the Truth does not reach before it is too late?

It would be better for one to shut his mouth completely than to spread a lie in the name of God, even if done in error, don't you think?

Those who teach lies have their reward already prepared for them before they were born.

I'm sure you understand the verse below.

Jas.3.1 - My brethren, let not many of you become teachers, knowing that we shall receive a stricter judgment.
Jas.3.2 - For we all stumble in many things. If anyone does not stumble in word, he is a perfect man, able also to bridle the whole body.



If the Bereans could go back to study their Bible to seek the truth even when the early disciples/apostles were preaching to them,
then nothing stops anyone from doing same in this present age.

bixton:
Those who teach lies have their reward already prepared for them before they were born.
I'm sure you understand the verse below.

Jas.3.1 - My brethren, let not many of you become teachers, knowing that we shall receive a stricter judgment.
Jas.3.2 - For we all stumble in many things. If anyone does not stumble in word, he is a perfect man, able also to bridle the whole body.

If the Bereans could go back to study their Bible to seek the truth even when the early disciples/apostles were preaching to them,
then nothing stops anyone from doing same in this present age.

True, unfortunately, even though those lies seem to carry their own power, cause many of those who hear them seem to interprete everything they read through the same filters the lies were served them.

I know so many so-called Christians who no longer believe the teachings of Jesus Christ mean anything today. To them, the meaning disappeared when Jesus Christ went to the cross, and so they do not obey His teaching because according to them, they are covered by what they call faith and righteousness and hence no longer necessary for them to heed and obey the teachings of the one who they suppose as their Master.
It boggles my mind just thinking about how it is they came to such a conclusion of Jesus Christ and His teachings(the very New Covenant agreement between each one who believes and God).

Kobojunkie:
True, unfortunately, even though those lies seem to carry their own power, cause many of those who hear them seem to interprete everything they read through the same filters the lies were served them.

I know so many so-called Christians who no longer believe the teachings of Jesus Christ mean anything today. To them, the meaning disappeared when Jesus Christ went to the cross, and so they do not obey His teaching because according to them, they are covered by what they call faith and righteousness and hence no longer necessary for them to heed and obey the teachings of the one who they suppose as their Master.
It boggles my mind just thinking about how it is they came to such a conclusion of Jesus Christ and His teachings(the very New Covenant agreement between each one who believes and God).

The TRUTH does not compromise HIMSELF no matter what men make of HIM in their own thinking.

I can't say what manner of christians they are.....
But......I don't see how a Christian can have faith and righteousness and not abide by the teachings of Jesus.....,except that one is not a Christian and practices something else.

bixton:
The TRUTH does not compromise HIMSELF no matter what men make of HIM in their own thinking.

I can't say what manner of christians they are.....
But......I don't see how a Christian can have faith and righteousness and not abide by the teachings of Jesus.....,except that one is not a Christian and practices something else.

That part of the statement in bold is impossible or we make God a liar and Jesus Christ a fraud!