to understand a book very well u need to see the author of the book so to expantiate wath is saying The quranic vaers that was qouted was mis- interpreted quran19v71 wath the quran was saying is that on the day judgement every body will need to pass through a brige which is on fire if u are a belever or non-belever u will pass throgh the brige u and me will also pass through it that day the unbelever will fall in to the fire and dose who have faith will pass through it that is wath d quran is saying WHEN NEXT U READ ANY BOOK AND U DO NOT UNDERSTAND LOOK FOR SOMEONE U THINK THAT UNDERSTAND BETTER

lol georgee, are you still postulating these lies?

[19:72] Then we rescue the righteous, and leave the transgressors in it, humiliated.

I decided to take mustay's advice and read other verses around verse 71 to understand it in context.
How do you RESCUE someone who is merely passing over a bridge? Why did the quran say allah would leave the transgressors in it if they were not already there with some other set of people?

@david

lol georgee, are you still postulating these lies?

Really?

[19:72] Then we rescue the righteous, and leave the transgressors in it, humiliated.

I decided to take mustay's advice and read other verses around verse 71 to understand it in context.

Nobody is forcing you to accept any body's advice. its a free world. You are free to go ahead with your mischief by making mockery of yourself.

How do you RESCUE someone who is merely passing over a bridge? Why did the quran say allah would leave the transgressors in it if they were not already there with some other set of people?

Honestly, I don't want to indulge in roundabout discussion again but learn t that you are having comprehension problem and loves behaving like a kid, so i came onboard to help you out.

Brother, if you are not satisfied with the explanations provided, go to Khan's translation of the Holy Quran, read the chapter from the beginning and when you get to the particular verse that is confusing you, go to the footnote and you would be directed to the footnote of a chapter of another verse, read through it and you will understand what you have not been able to.

But if you are not okay but up to playing pranks, then babs will give you the way you want it.

blabs787, all these long and boring tirade and NOT A SINGLE indication of whether my explanation was right or wrong? what a shame!

This is Khan's translation:

Sura 19: 68. So by your Lord, surely, We shall gather them together, and (also) the Shayâtin (devils) (with them), then We shall bring them round Hell on their knees.
69. Then indeed We shall drag out from every sect all those who were worst in obstinate rebellion against the Most Beneficent (Allâh).
70. Then, verily, We know best those who are most worthy of being burnt therein.
71. There is not one of you but will pass over it (Hell); this is with your Lord; a Decree which must be accomplished[].
72. Then We shall save those who use to fear Allâh and were dutiful to Him. And We shall leave the Zâlimûn (polytheists and wrongdoers, etc.) therein (humbled) to their knees (in Hell)

With the exception of the obvious attempt to "correct" verse 71 by making it "pass over it" instead of the correct "go down into it" there is really no change. If we assume that Khan's translation of verse 71 is correct then how do u explain verse 72?

How do you "save" those who fear allah if they are merely passing over hell and not going down into it?
How do you LEAVE unbelievers in hell if they were not there with some set of people in the first place? Who are those being taken out of hell in order to LEAVE the zalimun therein in hell?

@david

blabs787, all these long and boring tirade and NOT A SINGLE indication of whether my explanation was right or wrong? what a shame!

There is no need telling you if you are right or wrong especially to a guy like you that is neither interested in learning nor putting his thinking faculty to a test


Before going further, I will still implore you to read the footnote of Quran 68 v 42 for further explanation.

This is Khan's translation:

Sura 19: 68. So by your Lord, surely, We shall gather them together, and (also) the Shayâtin (devils) (with them), then We shall bring them round Hell on their knees.
69. Then indeed We shall drag out from every sect all those who were worst in obstinate rebellion against the Most Beneficent (Allâh).
70. Then, verily, We know best those who are most worthy of being burnt therein.

Thanks for that.

71. There is not one of you but will pass over it (Hell); this is with your Lord; a Decree which must be accomplished[].

Everybody will pass over the Hell. A bridge called As-Sirat will be extended over the Hell in which everybody will pass over it.

72. Then We shall save those who use to fear Allâh and were dutiful to Him. And We shall leave the Zâlimûn (polytheists and wrongdoers, etc.) therein (humbled) to their knees (in Hell)

I will explain to you in your question below.

With the exception of the obvious attempt to "correct" verse 71 by making it "pass over it" instead of the correct "go down into it" there is really no change. If we assume that Khan's translation of verse 71 is correct then how do u explain verse 72?

How do you "save" those who fear allah if they are merely passing over hell and not going down into it?

Like I said, the Great Bridge called As-Sirat will be extended over the Hell.

The companions asked, 'O Allah's Messenger, what is the Siraat? He said, 'it is a slippery bridge on which there are hooks, tongs and spits (like a thorny seed that is wide at one end and narrow at the other and has thorns with bent end).

The flame of the Jahannam will be rising increasingly, while the thorny plants therein too, will be protruding forthwith. The bridge will be intensely enveloped in darkness but the light of the virtuous ones will guide them.

71. There is not one of you but will pass over it (Hell); this is with your Lord; a Decree which must be accomplished[].

Everybody will pass over it. The first group from the believers will pass over it in a twinkle of an eye like lightning. Those following them would pass over with the speed of the wind and then the speed of flying birds and the speed of horses and camels according to the quality of their deeds.

When the quality of people's deeds decline, the speed will slow down till a man will come who will not be able to walk but will creep along. The last person on the bridge will cross as if being dragged over the bridge. On both sides of the bridge will be hanging hooks which will attach themselves to those they are commanded to seize. He who is merely scratched will be saved, but those who are heaped up will fall into the fire.


72. Then We shall save those who use to fear Allâh and were dutiful to Him. And We shall leave the Zâlimûn (polytheists and wrongdoers, etc.) therein (humbled) to their knees (in Hell)

How do you LEAVE unbelievers in hell if they were not there with some set of people in the first place?

I have provided explanation above.

Who are those being taken out of hell in order to LEAVE the zalimun therein in hell?

Those who will enter hell will be led into it in batches. The last batch of its denizens will be those who will have been heaped up by the hanging hooks on the sides of the Siraat. There are those who will be in the hell forever. There are those who will be there for a while. The latter people will be those who believed in the oneness of Allah but are guilty of one sin or the other which will make them to be adjudged to hell. There are seven stages in Hell which popularly known as doors or gates of the Hell

1. Jahannam (Hell fire)
2. Dhatalahab flaming fire
3. Humatamah crushing disaster
4. Sa'iir Burning
5. Saqar scroching fire
6. Jahiim fierce fire
7. Haawiyah abyss of fire.

At a stage, Allah will allow the prophets, angels, martyrs and the believers to intercede for those in the Hell who testified to His oneness but whose deeds could not merit Al-Jannah. These people believe in Allah but were deficient in their good deeds.

The Hell to them will be like a purgatory or hospital established for the treatment of their painful diseases. Consequent upon their sufferings, there will be cries, shrieks etc that will not ceased till after treatment is achieved.

After their thorough cleaning, Allah will allow request from those in Paradise to intercede for them. Allah will tell them to take out from Hell those in whose heart there is faith equal to the weight of one gold. Then those in whose heart there is faith equal to half a gold (Dinar), then those having faith equal to an atom etc.


Let me stop there, hope you understood?

babs787:

At a stage, Allah will allow the prophets, angels, martyrs and the believers to intercede for those in the Hell who testified to His oneness but whose deeds could not merit Al-Jannah. These people believe in Allah but were deficient in their good deeds.

The Hell to them will be like a purgatory or hospital established for the treatment of their painful diseases. Consequent upon their sufferings, there will be cries, shrieks etc that will not ceased till after treatment is achieved.

After their thorough cleaning, Allah will allow request from those in Paradise to intercede for them. Allah will tell them to take out from Hell those in whose heart there is faith equal to the weight of one gold. Then those in whose heart there is faith equal to half a gold (Dinar), then those having faith equal to an atom etc.

Based on this, there will be believers IN hell right? Who are these "believers" who will be in hell and will require intercession from angels, martyrs and prophets to get them out?
How can the same hell be a place of punishment of ubelievers and a place of wound cleansing for believers? What group of believers will end up in hell and how do u know those who will have to go there or not?

and while you are at it could you please explain the difference between hell fire, flaming fire, scorching fire and fierce fire. Thank you.

@david

Hey dude, I read a post by a brother named Usalawu that really touched me and as a result will not go much into biblical verses but will try explaining things to you as Allah permits me. I will try to be as nice as I can

Based on this, there will be believers IN hell right? Who are these "believers" who will be in hell and will require intercession from angels, martyrs and prophets to get them out?

Na wa o brother. There are some muslims that will be in Hell temporarily as a result of their deeds. When I say 'temporary', I mean that they will be in hell for some time and will be removed after serving their punishment.

It is necessary to mention here that a day in the hereafter is like 50,000 years of our earthly existence. hence if somebody is sentenced to a month's stay in hell, that means he will be there for one million and five hundred thousand years. A year therein will be about 18 million!.

Some will be in hell as a result of their bad deeds but will be removed later after serving their terms as a result of the faith they are having.

How can the same hell be a place of punishment of ubelievers and a place of wound cleansing for believers? What group of believers will end up in hell and how do u know those who will have to go there or not?

I have answered you. It will be a place of wound cleasing in the sense that someone that has faith will be removed after serving his punishment. I want you to know that belivers will not be in hell for ever but will be there according to the weight of their sins and will be removed as a result of the faith they will be having.

Hell is not an abode for all but for the proud and the haughty ones, the sinners, criminaqs, polytheists, unbelievers, hypocrites, transgressors, rejecters of truth, tyrants, murderers, opposers of Allah and His Messenger, the unjust, concealer of His revelation, persecutor of believers, those who commit suicide, those who prefer this world to the Hereafter, the cruel, those who devour orphan's property, women who dress nakedly etc

and while you are at it could you please explain the difference between hell fire, flaming fire, scorching fire and fierce fire. Thank you.

Each gate of hell is meant for specific class of sinners. Every sin has its own punishment. The difference lies in the fact that every sinner will serve its punishment according to the weight of the sins and will be in the one that fits his sins.

For example, a person that steals 100will not receive the same punishment as someone that steals millions. Every sinner will receive punishment according to the weight of his sins.


Have I explained myself?

@babs787,

babs787:

Everybody will pass over it. The first group from the believers will pass over it in a twinkle of an eye like lightning. Those following them would pass over with the speed of the wind and then the speed of flying birds and the speed of horses and camels according to the quality of their deeds

I just want to know this: Is Muhammad's word more superior to Allah's Qur'an?

The Qur'an does not mention any bridge over which everyone will pass over hell. Those who have translated the Qur'an without the usual political adjustments of the mullahs know very well that the Qur'an says Muslims will enter into Hell fire. Your explanations are only trying to water down the Qur'an.

That is why in another thread I asked the question: "The Qur'an and the Hadith - Which One?" Muslims should be careful to tell us if Muhammad's words are superior to Allah's Qur'an, then I will provide what exactly Allah's said in the Qur'an and how this idea of a bridge is a direct contradiction of that which is in the Qur'an.

@pilgrim

I just want to know this: Is Muhammad's word more superior to Allah's Qur'an?

No, just like Jesus' words not superior to his creator.

The Qur'an does not mention any bridge over which everyone will pass over hell. Those who have translated the Qur'an without the usual political adjustments of the mullahs know very well that the Qur'an says Muslims will enter into Hell fire. Your explanations are only trying to water down the Qur'an.

You know what. I laugh at times when I read your post. You are confused cos the Quran didnt put bridge. Let me ask you, does the Good News Bible has the same English as that of KJV and do all the versions give the same meaning to some verses in the bible. Please let me have your response to that and I will you verse from different bibles telling different things.

what is your understanding of this verse:

71. There is not one of you but will pass over it (Hell); this is with your Lord; a Decree which must be accomplished

What is your understanding of 'passing over it'?

That is why in another thread I asked the question: "The Qur'an and the Hadith - Which One?" Muslims should be careful to tell us if Muhammad's words are superior to Allah's Qur'an, then I will provide what exactly Allah's said in the Qur'an and how this idea of a bridge is a direct contradiction of that which is in the Qur'an.

Sister, honestly, I keep saying telling you as a christian to always be careful when dealing with muslims because as we proceed, I will be giving your verses that contradict each other. i.e saying of Jesus and that of God.

Now to the issue raised, I want you to provide me what Allah said in that verse, the idea of the bridge and the contradiction therein.


Thanks

@babs787,

babs787:

No, just like Jesus' words not superior to his creator.

The Qur'an does not accurately present who Jesus is.

babs787:

You know what. I laugh at times when I read your post. You are confused because the Quran didnt put bridge. Let me ask you, does the Good News Bible has the same English as that of KJV and do all the versions give the same meaning to some verses in the bible. Please let me have your response to that and I will you verse from different bibles telling different things.

I'd like to remain on the subject being discussed here. I won't oblige your deflection; and the subject here is about Sura 19:71. Use any version or translation you prefer, and the bottomline is that there is no mention of such bridge in the Qur'an.

babs787:

what is your understanding of this verse:

71. There is not one of you but will pass over it (Hell); this is with your Lord; a Decree which must be accomplished

What is your understanding of 'passing over it'?

The verse actually does not read to "pass over it". You're holding on the the translations that introduced the concept of the bridge; and as far as I'm aware in the more than 15 English translations in our library, only two of them use the phrase "pass over" -- (a) Muhsin-Khan; and (b) Yusuf Ali.

Other translations that are less politically adjusted render that verse as follows:

Pickthal:
"There is not one of you but shall approach it. That is a fixed ordinance of thy Lord."

Shakir:
"And there is not one of you but shall come to it; this is an unavoidable decree of your Lord."

Muhammad Sarwar:
"It is the inevitable decree of your Lord that every one of you will be taken to hell."

Sale:
"There shall be none of you but shall descend into the same [hell]: [This] is an established decree upon thy Lord."

Other translations more or less are even more direct, and they're not as politically adjusted as the two ealier referred to.

So there - would you like to comment on which "bridge" is mentioned in Sura 19:71 when people (Muslims) are "taken to", or "descend into", or "go (herded) down to"* Hell? (* from Dr. Ghali's translation)

babs787:

Sister, honestly, I keep saying telling you as a christian to always be careful when dealing with muslims because as we proceed, I will be giving your verses that contradict each other. i.e saying of Jesus and that of God.

If you bring any such deflections here, let me state upfront that you will receive no answers to them from me. You're always fond of distracting the topic of threads when you have no answers; and sorry, I shall be remaining on the present topic -- and please be reminded: it deals with the meaning of Sura 19:71!!!

babs787:

Now to the issue raised, I want you to provide me what Allah said in that verse, the idea of the bridge and the contradiction therein.

Like I said, when you produce the verse where Allah mentioned a "bridge" in sura 19:71, then I'll gladly show you what is wrong with your interpretation.

Regards.

babs787:

what is your understanding of this verse:

71. There is not one of you but will pass over it (Hell); this is with your Lord; a Decree which must be accomplished

What is your understanding of 'passing over it'?

thanks pilgrim1, you spared me the trouble of having to go look for all those several versions.

Over to you oga blabs787, where is the bridge mentioned in all those versions?

davidylan

I think you now have enough of what you want to know. just try and adjust if you really want to learn because the Q'uran is the only book that's telling you how your eternal life would be or did you find any of these things in your bible. by now, i think you should know that the Q'uran is the word with God that Jesus told you about.

you've learnt so much from those nlanders Scholars. Dont be confused about translations because it's was made by humans and humans are not a perfect maker. English is not capable of presenting correctly what the Q'uran explains. this is why Arabic is said to be the best language and the Q'uran testifies to this that it was reveal in the bet language.

You met your people practising christians does not mean you should do the same coz you can have a change now that you've seen prove.

@doyenn,

doyenn:

I think you now have enough of what you want to know. just try and adjust if you really want to learn because the Q'uran is the only book that's telling you how your eternal life would be or did you find any of these things in your bible. by now, i think you should know that the Q'uran is the word with God that Jesus told you about.

Sorry, I didn't get to know HOW my eternity would be spent by reading the Qur'an. It was the Bible that helped me appreciate the love of God more than what you might be assuming here. Besides, can we keep to the topic?

doyenn:

you've learnt so much from those nlanders Scholars. Dont be confused about translations because it's was made by humans and humans are not a perfect maker. English is not capable of presenting correctly what the Q'uran explains. this is why Arabic is said to be the best language and the Q'uran testifies to this that it was reveal in the bet language.

Please don't assume anything you can't defend. Arabic is not the best language. If it is, maybe suited to Arab-speaking folks who are told that they cannot understand the Qur'an once it is translated into another language.

But if that won't help, then in what terms is Arabic the "best language"?

doyenn:

You met your people practising christians does not mean you should do the same because you can have a change now that you've seen prove.

What "prove" (proof)??

Please, can we remain on the present topic of this thread? No deflections, please.

@davidylan,

davidylan:

thanks pilgrim1, you spared me the trouble of having to go look for all those several versions.

Nothing to worry actually. I'm just waiting to see how he attempts to defend this issue of interjecting words and ideas that are not in the Qur'an.

@ Doyenn,

you are obviously confused beyond belief! No comments until you all answer pilgrim1's questions.

davidylan:

@ Doyenn,

you are obviously confused beyond belief! No comments until you all answer pilgrim1's questions.

I was waiting for a follow up on this thread. . . I see doyenn has taken forever to answer! No wahala!