TAO11:
Sorry I already began replying your comment prior to when you modified for this part of your comment. I have addressed this already, but it seems you mistakenly missed it again. I’d use this opportunity to address it again with some more details.

Firstly: Muhammad died in 632AD, I’m not sure then how he could have fought anyone in 684 AD.

Secondly: like I noted earlier the kisra legend is simply one of the backdrops of the actual story originally made up by Sultan Bello for proselytization purposes.

Thirdly: like I also noted earlier Oduduwa flourished in circa 1000 AD.

In other words, he is centuries away from the legends you’re trying hard to pin him to.

Yorubas have no such name as Lamurudu, et al. in their account of Oduduwa’s roots.

As is to be expected, Lamurudu (Nimrod) first appeared in Sultan Bello’s story of Oduduwa’s roots.

Lol. This is a contradictory statement actually. Arabs are by necessity non-indigenous to Nigeria region.

This is like claiming that you’re a married bachelor.

However, even if this was to have made any sense, how could that possibly override the fact that Yorubas originally say something else about Oduduwa?

How could that possibly override the present-day conclusion of historical scholarship which states that Oduduwa is indigenous to Yorubaland?

Oranmiyan wasn’t trying to go to no Middle-East. There is nothing of such in the original traditions of the Yorubas.

This story emerged from Johnson’s interpretation of Oranmiyans sourjourn to establish his own Kingdoms in the frontier region of the Oyo, Nupe, and a Arabia countries.

What about you consider putting speculation aside and ask a simple questions:

(1) Who started this Mecca and Middle East Oduduwa migration thingy?

(2) Did the Yorubas themselves originally say such thing about Oduduwa?

And the straightforward answered are:

(1) A non-Yoruba — Fulani.

(2) No, the original Yoruba account maintain that Oduduwa’s origin is from within the Ife country.

I have addressed this above. The most that the Yoruba account says is that Oranmiyan is a brave warrior who goes about on expedition.

This particular episode relates simply to his quest to found his own kingdom which he eventually founded in near the banks of the River Niger.

The idea that he was trying to go to Mecca but was stopped with the offer of a wife (as you’ve put it above) is S. Johnson’s interpretation of Oranmiyan’s sourjourn based on his (Johnson’s) usage of Bello’s initial Meccan origin story.

TAO I agree that Sultan Bello and the Fulani Jihad are Champions of reverse Education and brain Washing but I don't think that they could have influenced the Angas, Jukuns and Nupe to believe their tribes Migrated out of Kanuri land after it was invaded by Sefyawa Jihadists in the 10th Century when the pagan Duguwas were deposed

christistruth01:
TAO I agree that Sultan Bello and the Fulani Jihad are Champions of reverse Education and brain Washing but I don't think that they could have influenced the Angas, Jukuns and Nupe to believe their tribes Migrated out of Kanuri land after it was invaded by Sefyawa Jihadists in the 10th Century when the pagan Duguwas were deposed

That was precisely what he did. [See pages 5-6 of S. Johnson].

Bello didn’t simply attempt his own version of Yoruba origin, he did the same for all the people of the Western Sudan (aka most part of West Africa) including Nupe, Yo-ory, et al.

He noted that virtually all of them were descended from the Yorubas, and that the Yorubas are descended from Mecca.

He simply made proselytization easy by presenting a common ground. Paul seems to have set the precedent for a similar strategy in Acts 17:23. Proselytization 101.

In fact, not only did Bello and his dad (Dan Fodio) influence Hausaland’s history since the 1800s, they also influenced its religious understanding and politics, and this influence has remained till this very moment as I type.

What must always be at the back of your mind is as follows:

Why don’t the Yorubas make such statement about their origin ab-initio?

Why did professional historians reject the middle-east story as unhistorical?

Do laypersons now know more than experts in the experts own professional field?

Do laypersons use this same energy to challenge medical doctors in their field?

Would you dare attempt a surgical procedure (such as C-S) on a beloved member of your family even when the professional surgeons are available?

If not, why then would professional historians reach a conclusion and you think they are stupid, and you know better?

TAO11:
That was precisely what he did. [See page 5-6 of S. Johnson].

Bello didn’t simply attempt his own version of Yoruba origin, he did the same for all the people of the Wester Sudan (Nupe, Yo-ory, et al.).

He noted that virtually all of them were descended from the Yorubas, and that the Yorubas are descended from Mecca. Islamic proselytization 101 without sword.

In fact, not only did S. Bello and his dad influence Hausaland’s history since the 1800s. They also influenced its religion and the influence remains till this very moment as In typing.

Sorry the date of the Mohammed's battle of Badr was 624AD

christistruth01:
Sorry the date of the battle of Bade was 624AD

You seem to be reading my comments too fast because I have addressed this, but I will address it again:

Oduduwa flourished circa 1000 AD.

In other words, Oduduwa is about four hundred years away from the events (Badr, etc.) you’re trying hard to pin him to.

Modified:
The world of historical scholarship as it stands today reject this fanciful Middle-East migration story as unhistorical.

Is there any reason why you think historians the world over are incredibly stupid?

Would you maintain the same energy to ignore the judgement and advice of your medical doctor on matters related to his field of medicine?

Nwabufo, I can say without an iota of doubt that you are mad!
Enough of this nonsense.

TAO11:
You seem to be reading my comments too fast because I have addressed this, but I will address it again:

Oduduwa flourished circa 1000 AD.

In other words, Oduduwa is about four hundred years away from the events (Badr, etc.) you’re trying hard to pin him to.

Modified:
The world of historical scholarship as it stands today reject this fanciful Middle-East migration story as unhistorical.

Is there any reason why you think historians the world over are incredibly stupid?

Would you maintain the same energy to ignore the judgement and advice of your medical doctor on matters related to his field of medicine?

So what you are saying is that the Idea that Oduduwa came from Arabia is a Historical fabrication of the Fulani Jihad Scholars that is as bad as the Ekhaledehan Story that Benin has been unsuccessfully trying to shove down everyone's throat. For the Past 2 decades

I have wandered why it was that before the Fulani Jihad the Hausa women like Queen Amina and the Queens of Daura were the strong Kingdom builders defeating Armies and winning new Territories Everywhere they went and all of a sudden that ability just seemed to Vanish

Brain Washing is Wicked

Hausaland was the Nation that Queen Amina of Zaria and also the Queen of Daura built

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amina

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daurama

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kabara_(title)

christistruth01:
So what you are saying is that the Idea that Oduduwa came from Arabia is a Historical fabrication of the Fulani Jihad Scholars that is as bad as the Ekhaledehan Story that Benin has been unsuccessfully trying to shove down everyone's throat. For the Past 2 decades

Your realization here is the precise conclusion of present-day historical scholarship on the roots of Oduduwa. [And no one ever took the Binis’s Ekaladerhan-Izoduwa fraud serious. Their own classical received accounts debunks it as fraudulent. Also, historians have always regarded it as an interesting nonsense].

This conclusion is based (not on the popular but unsubstantiated story of Sultan Bello which had held sway for long, but) on a different direction which developed deep in the 1900s in the course of the study of Yoruba history, as part of a more scientific study of African history in general, which focuses primarily on the indigenous evidence, as well as other relevant source material, for the reconstruction of early Yoruba history.

And the original Yoruba account of the historical roots of Oduduwa is that his ancestral homeland is at Oke-Ora — one of the hilly settlements surrounding the Ife bowl in the Ife country.

In fact, Professor S. A. Akintoye didn’t stop at merely citing this indigenous account of Oduduwa’s roots; as a historian, he proceeded to subject the indigenous account to further historical and logical analysis (vis-a-vis some other widely reported events in the traditional narrative), and he came to the following conclusion:

“In the light of this [analysis], it is reasonably certain that the group which became popularly known as the Oduduwa group in the traditions was led to the Ife [bowl] area not by Oduduwa [himself] but by his parents or grandparents.” ~ p. 62.

He concluded on the basis of these analysis that: “Oduduwa [himself] was born [right] in the strangers’ area of [the] Ife [bowl] to leaders of a small group that had relocated from one of the hills beyond the elu at Ife, that he grew up in the tradition of resentment in the strangers’ area, and that his youth and Obatala’s youth (both of them “sons of the soil” ) were spent in the tradition of growing conflicts in Ife.” ~ Ibid, p. 62.

I have wandered why it was that before the Fulani Jihad the Hausa women like Queen Amina and the Queen of Daura were the strong Kingdom builders defeating Armies and winning new Territories Everywhere they went and all of a sudden that ability just seemed to Vanish

Brain Washing

The Fulani ‘reformist’ movement of Dan Fodio had a very strong influence on the history, politics, and religious interpretation of Hausaland since the late 1700/early 1800s.

Cheers!

theTranslator:

Lol
I'm Egba
A full Yoruba
Everything you said --Balderdash!

Oga commot for road jor...
You go just dey scream ' balderdash!', 'rubbish!', for another person account, say your own na - for where! Abeg shift jor...

Ofodirinwa:
Nna, Eri is the founder of 6 Igbo villages, not Igbo people. And when he arrived his on earth in the same story, their neighboring Awka people were even there before them.

Eri has nothing to do with Igbo origins. If you're from Oduduwa, be that but don't impose yourself on other people's identity. Yes their are commonalities but try not to draw conclusions with limited understanding.

An average Imo man wet himself at the mention of Eri/Nri/Nri Awka. Your mission here is to distort Eri/Nri history and antagonize us. This is not about who founded what community but the impact they made. What impact did Aro and Isu made other than selling slaves ?

THE IGBOS CALL ODUDUWA "OSABURUWA" SPEAKING IN TONGUES TO CHRIST JESUS.

IDENNAA:


An average Imo man wet himself at the mention of Eri/Nri/Nri Awka. Your mission here is to distort Eri/Nri history and antagonize us. This is not about who founded what community but the impact they made. What impact did Aro and Isu made other than selling slaves ?

calm down

Givaxy:
shut up oloripelebe. benins are yoruba

no need to argue the attach by force syndrome of you people

go tell the oba of Benin palace and tell him that Benin are Yoruba
who nor dey respect himself I wonder how e go take respect others
keep insulting urself

Etrusen:


no need to argue the attach by force syndrome of you people

go tell the oba of Benin palace and tell him that Benin are Yoruba
who nor dey respect himself I wonder how e go take respect others
keep insulting urself

shut up. oba of Benin hinself knows that benins are Yoruba

Givaxy:
shut up. oba of Benin hinself knows that benins are Yoruba

I don't know about that but they have a very strong link to Yoruba

theTranslator:
I don't know about that but they have a very strong link to Yoruba

The Obas of Benin kingdom, Nigeria are of Ife-Yoruba direct uninterrupted patrilineal descent till date.

The aboriginal Binis themselves (whom the Oba rules over) are of a different ethnic group, just as the Igbos (for example) are a distinct ethnic group.

However, scientific evidence indicates that these ‘Nigerian’ ethnic groups, especially the Yoruba, the Igala, the Edo, the Idoma, the Ebira, the Nupe, the Kakanda, the Gbagyi, and the Igbo all naturally differentiated (slowly over thousands of years) from one singular initial proto-Ethnic group; spoke one and the same proto-language; and had one and the same initial culture.

Moreover, archaeological evidence specifically indicates that the original homeland — from where this singular proto-Ethnic group began to differentiate into the present-day ethnic groups, and gradually spread out (over thousand of years) to occupy their present respective locations — is the regions around the confluence of the Rivers Niger & Benue and a little further up the Niger.

This ethno-linguistic differentiation from the singular initial proto-Ethnic group is scientifically estimated to have begun in circa 4,000 BCE (that is, about 6,000 years ago) at that homeland. In fact, linguistic evidence suggests that the last groups to separate from each other are the Igala group and the Yoruba group.

Cheers!

Cc: Givaxy, Christistruth00

TAO11:
The Kings of Benin are of Ife-Yoruba direct uninterrupted patrilineal descent till date.

The aboriginal Binis themselves are a different ethnic group, just as Igbos are a different ethnic group.

However, scientific evidence from indicates these Nigerian ethnic groups, especially the Yoruba, the Igala, the Edo, the Idoma, the Ebira, the Nupe, the Kakanda, Gbagyi, and the Igbo all separated slowly over thousands of years from one original proto-Ethnic group speaking the same proto-language, and having the same proto-culture.

Moreover, archaeological evidence specifically indicate that the original homeland from where this singular proto-Ethnic group differentiated, developed distinctive characteristics, and gradually spread out (over thousand of years) to occupy their present locations is the regions around the confluence of the Rivers Niger & Benue and a little further up the Niger.

This ethnic-linguistic differentiation from the singular original proto-Ethnic is estimated from a scientific standpoint to have begun circa 4,000 BCE (that is about 6,000 years ago). In fact, linguistic evidence suggests that the last groups to separate from each other are the Igala group and the Yoruba group.

Cheers!

Cc: Givaxy, Christistruth00

chai
Where do you get your information?
Are you a historian?

flokii:
It's only an Igbo that you'll see concocting such lies all in the bid to beg for Southern unity that can never happen.. which 'sky-god' is the f00lish poster even talking about?

It's the Binis we have ties with historically not Igbos. What rubbish!

Keep your ties, we the Benins reject it.
Nor be by force to be Oduduwa

Givaxy:

shut up. oba of Benin hinself knows that benins are Yoruba

Con carry us na, brothership beggers

christistruth01:



Ekhaledehan Story that Benin has been unsuccessfully trying to shove down everyone's throat. For the Past 2 decades

Who's shoving what? We have our story you have yours. We can't change yours, you can't change ours as simple as that

All I know through personal research over many years in my massive families of about 5 kingships of Omo Owa and also of Agboniregun are that:

The present place we now occupied once belonged to the Uraure (the Pygmies), Ulesun people.

There were more than one Oduduwa and Oranmiyan (other great personalities were named after the first great ones).

The ancient Ife is not located in present Ife (people migrated with their history; there're other Ifes even in Igalaland).

The linguistics & Divinity connection to the North East Africa/Middle East are strong.

There's intermixing of the indigenous people and the migrated people who came in many expeditions/migrations.

There are lots to be unearthed to determine the earliest people of West Africa.

theTranslator:
chai
Where do you get your information?
Are you a historian?

Lol. I am not a historian by training, it’s simply a pastime. However, I invest my resources into up-to-date professional findings, information, and conclusions of actual historians in academia — especially the up-to-date conclusions of historical scholarship on Yoruba history.

It is very unfortunate that there still seem, in this age & time, to be a huge barrier/divide/gap between the expert findings and conclusions of professional historians in academia on one hand; and the popular sensational but absurd rumors being peddled around by laypersons on the other hand — especially those laypersons who mask as historians on and off the internet just to prey on other unsuspecting laypersons.

————————
For literatures and references to those information in my foregoing comment, you may consult one or more of the following sources. The last reference should serve as a comprehensive summary of the preceding ones.

(1) Robin Horton: “Ancient Ife: A Reassessment,” Journal of the Historical Society of Nigeria, Vol. 9, No. 4 (JUNE 1979), pp. 69-149.

(2) Thurstan Shaw: “Prehistory,” in Obaro Ikime, ed., “Groundwork of Nigerian History,” Ibadan, Historical Society of Nigeria, (1980), pp. 30-35.

(3) Thurstan Shaw: “Prehistory of West Africa,” in J. K. Zerbo, ed., “General History of Africa: Methodology and Prehistory,” Paris, UNESCO, (1981), pp. 611-633.

(4) Ade Obayemi: “The Yoruba and Edo-speaking Peoples and their Neighbours before 1600,” in J. F. Ade Ajayi and Michael Crowder, eds., “History of West Africa,” Vol. 1, Third Edition, London, Longman, (1985), pp. 196-263.

(5) Bassey W. Andah: “Agriculture Beginnings and Early Farming Communities in West and Central Africa,” West African Journal of Archaeology, 17, (1987), pp. 171-204.

(6) Raphael A. Alabi: “Late Stone Age Technologies and Agricultural Beginnings,” in Akinwunmi Ogundiran, ed., “Precolonial Nigeria: Essays in Honour of Toyin Falola,” Trenton Africa World Press, (2005), pp. 87-104.

(7) S. Adebanji Akintoye: “A History of the Yoruba People,” Amalion Publishing, (2010), pp. 4-10.

Cheers!

valirex:


Keep your ties, we the Benins reject it.
Nor be by force to be Oduduwa

A son can not give birth to or reject the Grandfather he descended from..


Yoruba have a Proverb

“ The River that forgets it’s Source shall definitely dry out”

Christistruth00:
A son can not give birth to or reject the *Grandfather he descended from..

Yoruba have a Proverb

“The River that forgets it’s Source shall definitely dry out”

*Great-grand father actually. LMAO.

Or perhaps even great-great grand father Lol.

valirex:


Who's shoving what? We have our story you have yours. We can't change yours, you can't change ours as simple as that

With all Humility, the British are very thorough History researchers.

Christistruth00:



With all Humility the British are very thorough History researchers.

Like I said We have our story you have yours. We can't change yours, you can't change ours as simple as that

Christistruth00:


A son can not give birth to or reject the Grandfather he descended from..


Yoruba have a Proverb

“ The River that forgets it’s Source shall definitely dry out”

Con carry us, brothership beggers

valirex:

Con carry us na, brothership beggers

whether you like it or not. benins are Yoruba

Givaxy:

whether you like it or not. benins are Yoruba

Con carry us brothership beggers

theTranslator:
I don't know about that but they have a very strong link to Yoruba

they are Yoruba

valirex:

Con carry us brothership beggers

whether you like it or not. benins are Yoruba

Givaxy:

whether you like it or not. benins are Yoruba

Damn I get it, when you're born with the DNA of begging, so wail on