Lakenaira:
but according to the Bible God's plan was for us to inhabit the garden of eden which was on Earth.

Not just the garden of Eden, but the entire earth.

Genesis 1 v 28
28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”

Also bear in mind the same instruction was passed down to Noah and his sons after the flood;

Genesis 9 v 1;
Then God blessed Noah and his sons, saying to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the earth.

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Lol, we did not have the kind of population explosion that we have had in the last century ALWAYS. World population in 1000AD was around 310million, 1900 around 1.6billion and in 1960 over 3billion. Another 60years later and we are around 8billion. So population growth has being more of exponential recently. And BTW, we are not too many oh. It is just that we do not know how to manage resources.
Area of land is about 150 billion meter square. If you do the Maths, it fits us all, not to now mention working with storey buildings and skyscrappers. If you know the amount of food, water, energy etc that is being wasted, you would probably blow the trumpet immediately. Nonetheless, the plan was never for us to remain here on earth alone or forever. The initial inhabitants were not confined here.




Man was made to choose between the tree of life and the other tree. Earlier, man lived very long despite not eating the tree of life. They would die at some point though, so it was not automatic eternal life. Eternal life was lost by Adam not eating the tree of life, not by Adam eating the other tree. Remember he was sent out of Eden before he could eat the tree of life.
Let's pick it up from there i suppose.


Edited

I love this your theology. It is an eye opener

Casham:
Then what did he mean by "be fruitful, multiply, fill the earth." That command came even before Eve. The intention was to turn the whole earth into a global Eden before replicating it in other planets and satelites. Imagine what even just you would've done if you could live for just 30 000 years. Our brain was obviously designed for much more than making AIs and moon landings. Imagine what humanity would've achieved if we are not limited by hate, fear, lies, wars, anger, arrogance, greed, indiscipline or any other form of weakness. Even after the fall, humanity attempted to reach the 'heavens'. We are obviously designed for more

true

Redomi:
Oyinbos will still be enslaving us
Idi-Amin will be Uganda president till eternity
Abacha will rule Nigeria forever.
Tinubu will rule Lagos forever
People will not serve God
There will be law that forbid couples to have more than 1 child.

They'd be saintly and there would be justice and fairness.

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They'd be saintly and there would be justice and fairness.

That’s if another person asides Adam or Eve isn’t beguiled by the Serpent to eat the forbidden fruit.

OkCornel:


That’s if another person asides Adam or Eve isn’t beguiled by the Serpent to eat the forbidden fruit.

All were in the first Adam as saints are in the last Adam. The bulk rested on Adam

Hanibbal:


Exactly. Overcrowding and the rest. Earth's resources would be depleted I can't imagine the suffering. Anyway I believe God's word but my curiosity at times.

There is too much food and water available for man. Though man was not made to live by bread alone or on earth alone. Adam fumbled much of that.

Hanibbal:


This goes against the book of Genesis. We were taught that Adam and Eve were created in God's image which represents Immortality and eternal radiance but sin cut that off. It destroyed the eternal nature of God in them and God pronounced that from dust they were made and to dust they shall return.

The tree of life was for what you call immortality. Man was not made immortal in the sense. Man's body was cursed though and cannot inherit immortality. But we shall be changed.

Workch:
If humans dont die, we will deplete the resources very fast and it will collapse the system.
A lot of organisms including humans will be extinct and by now. This is because the resources is finite and a growing population will deplete it and the ecosystem will collapse.
And by the way, the Adam and Eve story is a lie. It never happened

Which resources are you depleting fast. The resources are too vast and too much, one who is truly knowledgeable would imagine that God wasted so much on us.

josh123:
I wonder why God created the forbidden fruit the first place if he doesn't want them to eat it. Even if Adam and eve didnt eat the fruit, their children would have eaten it. What was the purpose of the forbidden fruit in the garden self. If God had not placed it there, everything would have been fine

Man is supposed to reach potential. It's an open secret that man was made to replace satan and the fallen angels. Every physical thing God has made needs some form of refinement and process for greater use. From sunlight to crude oil to man. The test was for promotion, Adam flunked it, deliberately for that matter.

OkCornel:
Perhaps the plan was for humans to evolve and transit to other realms of existence without dying. That way, they’re not fixed on the physical earth, and earth’s resources won’t deplete.

Caveat: I started with the word PERHAPS.

You are not far from the truth. Satan who was in charge of earth before, was known to transit.

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Which resources are you depleting fast. The resources are too vast and too much, one who is truly knowledgeable would imagine that God wasted so much on us.

You lack basic understanding of how it works.

Resources are finite

Workch:
You lack basic understanding of how it works.

Resources are finite

Give a basic example seeing you have basic understanding.

Hanibbal:


This goes against the book of Genesis. We were taught that Adam and Eve were created in God's image which represents Immortality and eternal radiance but sin cut that off. It destroyed the eternal nature of God in them and God pronounced that from dust they were made and to dust they shall return.

The DEATH IN THEIR BLESSING WAS TRANSITION TO ETERNITY, THE TYPE JESUS CHRIST DIED WHEN HE WAS CRUCIFIED. THE DEATH IN THE DISOBEDIENCE OF ADAM AND EVE WAS A DEATH TO ETERNAL DAMNATION AND TO SHEOL.

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Give a basic example seeing you have basic understanding.

Crude oil is finite because the rate of deposition of fossils to form the crude oil is lot slower than rate of exhaustion. Estimate suggest that the global crude oil reserve will last less then 100years and will take millions of years again to replenish.

Resources like forest is also at danger of human population keep growing. Plants are the reservoir for co2 and producers of oxygen. Human growth means more and more deforestation. We will deplete the resources and various environmental hazard like global warming and climate change will set in. The ecosystem will be distablized.

The need for energy also requires mining of different metal reserve to serve the growing population.

It’s common sense na, don’t allow religion stop you from thinking

Workch:
Crude oil is finite because the rate of deposition of fossils to form the crude oil is lot slower than rate of exhaustion. Estimate suggest that the global crude oil reserve will last less then 100years and will take millions of years again to replenish.

Resources like forest is also at danger of human population keep growing. Plants are the reservoir for co2 and producers of oxygen. Human growth means more and more deforestation. We will deplete the resources and various environmental hazard like global warming and climate change will set in. The ecosystem will be distablized.

The need for energy also requires mining of different metal reserve to serve the growing population.

It’s common sense na, don’t allow religion stop you from thinking

Lol, i find it funny that the wannabe atheists usually resort to feeling superior intelligence on Social Media. Meanwhile, reality is otherwise. We the ones that "can't think" top you and flog you blue black from kindergaten to Ph.D and in the various industries and institutions. i'm certain your bosses, supervisors, employers, teachers and parents are in this category of so called people that are in religion that don't think.

That aside, you were not able to give a BASIC example of a finite resource. All you are talking about are things never seen before. Go and learn about waste, just maybe you may be shown mercies to see.

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Lol, i find it funny that the wannabe atheists usually resort to feeling superior intelligence on Social Media. Meanwhile, reality is otherwise. We the ones that "can't think" top you and flog you blue black from kindergaten to Ph.D and in the various industries and institutions. i'm certain your bosses, supervisors, employers, teachers and parents are in this category of so called people that are in religion that don't think.

That aside, you were not able to give a BASIC example of a finite resource. All you are talking about are things never seen before. Go and learn about waste, just maybe you may be shown mercies to see.

Just to add, recycling. And renewable resources…

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Lol, i find it funny that the wannabe atheists usually resort to feeling superior intelligence on Social Media. Meanwhile, reality is otherwise. We the ones that "can't think" top you and flog you blue black from kindergaten to Ph.D and in the various industries and institutions. i'm certain your bosses, supervisors, employers, teachers and parents are in this category of so called people that are in religion that don't think.

That aside, you were not able to give a BASIC example of a finite resource. All you are talking about are things never seen before. Go and learn about waste, just maybe you may be shown mercies to see.

I am sorry if I can not communicate in Moronic language for you to understand.
This is the least I can do

Hanibbal:
I am a Christian and when ever I think about the plan of God for man from the beginning, the garden of eden, Adam and Eve. We were made to understand that the plan of God was to make man in his own image and make him eternal like him but the disobedience of Adam and Eve destroyed that plan and brought death.

Now my question is if Adam and eve did not disobey death won't have entered from the beginning. That means if people don't die the population of this world would keep increasing. Is overcrowding not the effect of this? What about earth's resources can it cater for like hundreds of billions of people living on earth?

Only God knows how old this earth is let's say people who have lived on this earth at a time are still here plus our present generation what would have happened. I can't imagine the overcrowding.

At times I would start doubting that God wanted us to live forever from the beginning. Nairalander's please what's your take on this.
Mods please help me push this to FP I need answers. Help a curious soul.

Cc: lalasticlala OAM4J

God who created the man to multiply would certainly know how to sustain him and his offspring.

So many unanswered questions

OkCornel:


Just to add, recycling. And renewable resources…

Don't mind his royal foolery. Asides the fact that not one single resource has finished but we keep either discovering more or alternative and better ways. Like someone mentioned from coal to oil to gas to renewable. Recycling is a much viable option. They also fail to consider the fact that if there was no fall in Eden, there would be no colossal waste and curse as we have had. There would be more brilliance as seen in Eden. The untapped would be tapped and the sustainable would be in the front. i repeat again that it is asides their foolery of faith in what has NEVER HAPPENED.

Workch:
I am sorry if I can not communicate in Moronic language for you to understand.
This is the least I can do

You should be sorry for the waste you are turning out to be to the world at large. No one needs the level of folly you've tried to spread here, find something tangible to achieve with life. It's bad enough not to have Christ, but to still have no BASIC knowledge and feel so full, it's unfortunate.

Hanibbal:


This goes against the book of Genesis. We were taught that Adam and Eve were created in God's image which represents Immortality and eternal radiance but sin cut that off. It destroyed the eternal nature of God in them and God pronounced that from dust they were made and to dust they shall return.

Immortality for Adam & Eve was dependent on their obedience to God, Genesis 2:17, God says so.
"Created in God's image" doesn't mean or represent immortality.
God is good, God is love etc.
"Created in God's image" represents Adam and Eve's reflection of God's attributes in a perfect way.

Hanibbal:
I am a Christian and when ever I think about the plan of God for man from the beginning, the garden of eden, Adam and Eve. We were made to understand that the plan of God was to make man in his own image and make him eternal like him but the disobedience of Adam and Eve destroyed that plan and brought death.

Now my question is if Adam and eve did not disobey death won't have entered from the beginning. That means if people don't die the population of this world would keep increasing. Is overcrowding not the effect of this? What about earth's resources can it cater for like hundreds of billions of people living on earth?

Only God knows how old this earth is let's say people who have lived on this earth at a time are still here plus our present generation what would have happened. I can't imagine the overcrowding.

At times I would start doubting that God wanted us to live forever from the beginning. Nairalander's please what's your take on this.
Mods please help me push this to FP I need answers. Help a curious soul.

We know that Death existed from before Adam and Eve fell and this because of what God said in Genesis 2 vs 15-17. The punishment doled out to Adam was that he would die that same day that very day that he sinned Genesis 3 vs 17 - 18

If Adam had not failed that test, maybe He would have been transformed into a Spirit being,this after his term on earth ended, instead of Death..and I doubt that overpopulation is a probably in the Spirit world.

Hanibbal:

Exactly. Overcrowding and the rest. Earth's resources would be depleted I can't imagine the suffering. Anyway I believe God's word but my curiosity at times.

You assume that had Death not come to man by way of the punishment for his sin, man would have had to live forever on earth but the story never tells you this nor does it hint at that.

Hanibbal:

This goes against the book of Genesis. We were taught that Adam and Eve were created in God's image which represents Immortality and eternal radiance but sin cut that off. It destroyed the eternal nature of God in them and God pronounced that from dust they were made and to dust they shall return.

Adam and Eve were created in God's image but nowhere in the book are you told that they were created as immortal/eternal beings.

And no where inthe book are you told that sin cut their supposed eternity off, not even what you claim there of a destruction of an eternal nature of God in them - there was no such to begin with.

Man was created a physical being into which God then breathed life. The same God then placed the Tree of Eternal Life in the same Garden that He placed man. Why?
When man fell, God kicked them out of the garden to stop man from accessing and eating from the tree of Eternal life.

Hanibbal:
I am a Christian and when ever I think about the plan of God for man from the beginning, the garden of eden, Adam and Eve. We were made to understand that the plan of God was to make man in his own image and make him eternal like him but the disobedience of Adam and Eve destroyed that plan and brought death.

Now my question is if Adam and eve did not disobey death won't have entered from the beginning. That means if people don't die the population of this world would keep increasing. Is overcrowding not the effect of this? What about earth's resources can it cater for like hundreds of billions of people living on earth?

Only God knows how old this earth is let's say people who have lived on this earth at a time are still here plus our present generation what would have happened. I can't imagine the overcrowding.

At times I would start doubting that God wanted us to live forever from the beginning. Nairalander's please what's your take on this.
Mods please help me push this to FP I need answers. Help a curious soul.

Cc: lalasticlala OAM4J

Hi there.

First of all, I know no part of the bible that says that Adam and Eve were created to be eternal like God. In fact, there is this passage:

22 Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”— 23 therefore the LORD God sent him out of the garden of Eden to till the ground from which he was taken.
Genesis 3:22-23 (NKJV)

That seems to me to make clear that God did not make the couple with an innate "immortality." It was the fruit of the tree of life that would have sustained their life indefinitely if they were not driven out of the Garden of Eden.

But maybe that is what you mean. Maybe you mean that God's plan was for them to stay in the Garden of Eden with unfettered access to the Tree of Life, thus sustaining their earthly existence indefinitely. Or maybe you mean that they were intended to eventually become immortal if they never disobeyed God. Either of these is plausible, but we can only say what the Bible actually affirms to be true: namely, that God made Adam and Eve with a mortality that was sustained by the tree of life until they sinned and He drove them out of the Garden of Eden.

Second, nothing about God's Plan can be destroyed (Isaiah 55:11; Matthew 24:35; Numbers 23:19). Everything that happens in this creation is part of God's Plan. He may only have accommodated certain things so that His creatures can exercise their free will (which is what God's image is), but there is nothing that happens that surprises Him or makes Him change His mind. His plan is the same since before He created the world.

To your question, however, I believe that you are right that there would have been no death if Adam and Eve and their children never sinned against God. Death is a result of sin (Romans 5:12-14). I should point out still that while it is true that it was Adam's sin that brought death on us all, if Adam had not sinned and any of his children then did in their own turn, they would have experienced death. Because of God's Plan, however, Adam sinned so that it would be a 'once for all' thing for all humanity (Romans 11:32, for illustration).

As for overcrowding, obviously, there is nothing that God cannot do. Jesus Christ fed five thousand men and an undisclosed number of women and children with five loaves and two fishes on one occasion, after all. On another, He fed four thousand men and an undisclosed number of women and children with seven loaves of bread and a few fishes too.

What is more, the Glorious Millennium is going to have the largest population of human beings ever to live here on earth. Death will be so uncommon then that anyone who dies at 100 years old at that time will be a sinner under a curse (Isaiah 65:20). Many of those who make it into the Millennium unresurrected will live through the whole thousand years then with their children, grandchildren, even great-grandchildren, and on and on down the line. This will particularly be the case with believers, the majority of whom at that time will be ethnic Jews.

Should this worry us? As we have just said, no, it should not. Where sin is restrained and God is ruling over the world as He was doing through Adam before he sinned and as He will be doing in Jesus Christ in the Millennium, the world explodes with blessing and productivity. Consider this promise below, which is one of a staggering number:

7 When I returned, there, along the bank of the river, were very many trees on one side and the other. 8 Then he said to me: “This water flows toward the eastern region, goes down into the valley, and enters the sea. When it reaches the sea, its waters are healed. 9 And it shall be that every living thing that moves, wherever the rivers go, will live. There will be a very great multitude of fish, because these waters go there; for they will be healed, and everything will live wherever the river goes. 10 It shall be that fishermen will stand by it from En Gedi to En Eglaim; they will be places for spreading their nets. Their fish will be of the same kinds as the fish of the Great Sea, exceedingly many. 11 But its swamps and marshes will not be healed; they will be given over to salt. 12 Along the bank of the river, on this side and that, will grow all kinds of trees used for food; their leaves will not wither, and their fruit will not fail. They will bear fruit every month, because their water flows from the sanctuary. Their fruit will be for food, and their leaves for medicine.”
Ezekiel 47:7-12 (NKJV)

Understand that this promise above is concerning this very planet that we live on, not about Heaven or about the New Earth that God will make after the Judgment of the Great White Throne (Revelation 20:11-15) in Revelation 21:1.

It is good to remember that death is not what God wants for us. It is in His plan only because our free will was always going to lead us to sin in very many cases. A third of the angels sinned too just because they had free will, how much more human beings in our weakness. Death was invented by God to control sin and give us an incentive to repent and lay hold of His mercy. Eternal fellowship with God is actually what He wants for us. But He was never going to force it on anybody. Each of us must choose it freely if we will have it.

Cheers.

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You should be sorry for the waste you are turning out to be to the world at large. No one needs the level of folly you've tried to spread here, find something tangible to achieve with life. It's bad enough not to have Christ, but to still have no BASIC knowledge and feel so full, it's unfortunate.

Whats your frustration all about?

Workch:
Whats your frustration all about?

That you are too dull and losr and yet don't know it.

Hanibbal:


This goes against the book of Genesis. We were taught that Adam and Eve were created in God's image which represents Immortality and eternal radiance but sin cut that off. It destroyed the eternal nature of God in them and God pronounced that from dust they were made and to dust they shall return.

You were not taught that in Genesis, rather you are the one interpreting the book of Genesis. The book of Genesis never stated the bolded.

GeneralDae:

You were not taught that in Genesis, rather you are the one interpreting the book of Genesis. The book of Genesis never stated the bolded.

So what you are saying is God didn't create them to live forever at the outset? Told you I needed answers in my heading.

While growing up I was taught there won't be death had Adam and his wife adhered to that instruction and many preachers still lay emphasis on that today.

Hanibbal:


So what you are saying is God didn't create them to live forever at the outset? Told you I needed answers in my heading.

While growing up I was taught there won't be death had Adam and his wife adhered to that instruction and many preachers still lay emphasis on that today.

Perhaps…

Read what God (the Elohim) said in Genesis 3 v 22;
And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.”