So I made a post on a thread and this guy decided to reply my quote by quoting a passage from the bible that made mention of a certain valley called Baca and then tried to relate it together with the present day mecca by saying that the Baca in the old testament which was written thousands of years before the quran is the same place with the present day mecca, so I made some research and here's is my conclusion...


Mr BnQoyyim, The bible have been concluded hundreds of years b4 the Quran,

BACA (a valley in Jerusalem) in the bible is not the same thing as mecca (a city in Saudi Arabia)

Next time make researches before quoting someone so as not to display lack of maturity...

Una no go comment or defend una fellow Moslem abi? E be like say d guy don fall una hand!

RisenJoe:
So I made a post on a thread and this guy decided to reply my quote by quoting a passage from the bible that made mention of a certain valley called Baca and then tried to relate it together with the present day mecca by saying that the Baca in the old testament which was written thousands of years before the quran is the same place with the present day mecca, so I made some research and here's is my conclusion...
Nu

Mr BnQoyyim, The bible have been concluded hundreds of years b4 the Quran,

BACA (a valley in Jerusalem) in the bible is not the same thing as mecca (a city in Saudi Arabia)

Next time make researches before quoting someone so as not to display lack of maturity...

The past prophets are all Muslims, infact, they practise Isalm. Here are my scriputaral points:
Abraham father of Faith prayed as Muslim:
Genesis 17:3
Prophet from Arabia is mentioned in
Ezekiel 27:21
A prophet like Moses is mentioned in
Deuteronomy 18:18
No original sin:
Ezekiel 18:20
Purification for prayer was done by Moses:
Exodus 40:31-32
Lastly, Baka mentioned in Qur'an 3:96.

RisenJoe:
So I made a post on a thread and this guy decided to reply my quote by quoting a passage from the bible that made mention of a certain valley called Baca and then tried to relate it together with the present day mecca by saying that the Baca in the old testament which was written thousands of years before the quran is the same place with the present day mecca, so I made some research and here's is my conclusion...


Mr BnQoyyim, The bible have been concluded hundreds of years b4 the Quran,

BACA (a valley in Jerusalem) in the bible is not the same thing as mecca (a city in Saudi Arabia)

Next time make researches before quoting someone so as not to display lack of maturity...

You based all your argument on a "likely" opinion in your research.
Why not research the word "Bakkah" and see the other side of the discussion which is not "likely"?

AntiChristian:


You based all your argument on a "likely" opinion in your research.
Why not research the word "Bakkah" and see the other side of the discussion which is not "likely"?

Your fellow Moslem didn't mention it that way and it wasn't written bakkah in the bible from where he quoted from instead what the bible wrote was BACA

AntiChristian:


You based all your argument on a "likely" opinion in your research.
Why not research the word "Bakkah" and see the other side of the discussion which is not "likely"?

There's nothing like christian pilgrimage until 4th Century. Where was Jesus around this very time?
Pilgrimage in the valley of Baka (Mekka) has been established since the time of Prophet Abraham- father of faith.
Up till now, Ibrahim' stand is nowhere but in Mekka.

BnQoyyim:


The past prophets are all Muslims, infact, they practise Isalm. Here are my scriputaral points:
Abraham father of Faith prayed as Muslim:
Genesis 17:3
Prophet from Arabia is mentioned in
Ezekiel 27:21
A prophet like Moses is mentioned in
Deuteronomy 18:18
No original sin:
Ezekiel 18:20
Purification for prayer was done by Moses:
Exodus 40:31-32
Lastly, Baka mentioned in Qur'an 3:96.

Lol, guy I like you ooo cos you argument are reasonable albeit easily disprovable with superior fact based argument.

Fact no 1= Islam started with Mohammed, so saying that Abraham is a muslim simply because he bowed his head to pray is wrong and secondly moslems always face Mecca while praying and there wasn't anywhere like Mecca that time because those that would later found and occupy mecca are the children of Abraham.

2= With the exception of Abraham, all those other people you mentioned there are prophets in Israel and you know that Israel practice Judaism, so they aren't moslems.


Let's argue with facts and I've presented the facts to you without insulting you or your religion.

[quote author=AntiChristian post=103536280]

You based all your argument on a "likely" opinion in your research.
Why not research the word "Bakkah" and see the other side of the discussion which is not "likely"?[/quotIf

If Christianity is not practiced in Jesus' lifetime, then, which pilgrimage was he embarked on.
The word 'Baka' has different meaning, meanwhile, tailored with the pilgrimage, then, it has to do with the religion.

BnQoyyim:


There's nothing like christian pilgrimage until 4th Century. Where was Jesus around this very time?
Pilgrimage in the valley of Baka (Mekka) has been established since the time of Prophet Abraham- father of faith.
Up till now, Ibrahim' stand is nowhere but in Mekka.

Come on bro, the people spoken of in that verse where Baca was mentioned were the Israelites,and that Baca is located somewhere around Jerusalem.

Secondly Abraham stands cannot be in mecca cos there was nothing like Mecca when he walked on earth.

And by the way who's making mention of pilgrimage here sef?

RisenJoe:


Come on bro, the people spoken of in that verse where Baca was mentioned were the Israelites,and that Baca is located somewhere around Jerusalem.

Secondly Abraham stands cannot be in mecca cos there was nothing like Mecca when he walked on earth.

Moses is a Muslim with additional following points of mine. Thus, Isrealite- the people of Moses in His lifetime practiced nothing but Islam.
Ok, here is another verses:
Exodus 34:8
Number 20:6 Moses and Haron prostrate in worship
Deuteronomy 9:18-20 and 25-27

BnQoyyim:


[s]Moses is a Muslim with additional following points of mine. Thus, Isrealite- the people of Moses in His lifetime practiced nothing but Islam.[/s]
Ok, here is another verses:
Exodus 34:8
Number 20:6 Moses and Haron prostrate in worship
Deuteronomy 9:18-20 and 25-27

Bro,pls take back what you wrote, even your Alfas and Imams knows that Moses and the Israelites practice Judaism and they worship Elohim or YHW.
How can Moses be a Moslem when he was the prophet who laid out the principles of worship in Judaism and mind you that Judaism is older than Islam by thousands of years

RisenJoe:


Bro,pls take back what you wrote, even your Alfas and Imams knows that Moses and the Israelites practice Judaism and they worship Elohim or YHW.
How can Moses be a Moslem when he was the prophet who laid out the principles of worship in Judaism and mind you that Judaism is older [color=#006600][/color]
thank Islam by thousands of years

I've established my points scripturally, stop arguing on the surface, didn't you believe in your bibles again?

RisenJoe:


Your fellow Moslem didn't mention it that way and it wasn't written bakkah in the bible from where he quoted from instead what the bible wrote was BACA

Bakkah or Baca, what's the Hebrew word translated to English as Baca in your Bible?

Research it first na!

RisenJoe:


Bro,pls take back what you wrote, even your Alfas and Imams knows that Moses and the Israelites practice Judaism and they worship Elohim or YHW.
How can Moses be a Moslem when he was the prophet who laid out the principles of worship in Judaism and mind you that Judaism is older than Islam by thousands of years

Lets start this way, A Muslim is one who submits to the will of God, was Moses a submitter to the will of God (Elohim or Yahweh)

Allah and Elohim which you mentioned both means "God"

The God of Abraham was Allah (Arabic) or Elah (Hebrew). Abraham, Ishmael, Issac, Jacob, David, Solomon e.t.c never knew God as Yahweh, the name was only revealed to Moses, even Jesus and Apostle Paul never mentioned Yahweh in the new testament...

Exodus 6
2And God said to Moses, I am the Lord.

3I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob as God Almighty but by My [a]name the Lord [Yahweh] I did not make Myself known to them.

God Almighty means Almighty Allah in Arabic

Exodus 34:8
Number 20:6 Moses and Haron prostrate in worship
Deuteronomy 9:18-20 and 25-27

There is no where Judaism or christanity was mentioned in the Bible by Moses himself or by Jesus.

If Moses laid the principles of worship in Judaism why are they still facing a direction when praying which dates back before and after him, also bowing of heads when praying.

According to (1 King 8 vs 44-45) RSV. "If thy people go out to battle against their enemy, whatever, thou shalt sent them, and shall pray unto the Lord toward the city (Jerusalem) [/b]which thou hast chosen, and towards the house that I have built for thy name, then hear thou in heaven their prayer and their supplication, and maintain their cause".

Again let us take a look at another verse in the Bible (Daniel 6 vs 10) "Now when Daniel knew that the writing was signed, he went into his house, [b]and his window been open in his chamber towards Jerusalem, he kneeled upon his kneels three times a day, and prayed, and gave thanks before his God, as he did before. Then these men assembled, and found Daniel praying and making supplication before his God".

(Psalm 5 vs 7) ASV. "I will worship towards thy Holy Temple, and praise thy name for thy loving kindness and for thy truth, for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name".


Mind you Abraham, Isaac Jacob, David, Solomon didn't worship Yahweh, because they only know God as [God Almighty, Allah, Elohim]




Abraham and Moses are Muslim because they submitted to the will of God.

If someone submit to the will of God, he or she should submit totally to his commandments, to his principles, to his says, etc. But while Moses, Abraham, etc that you claimed were Muslims while alive, none of them prayed five or four times a day, none of them took kettle wash their body as you always do in Islam before praying and still they are Muslims. None of them perform holy Pilgrimage to mecca, none of them read from the quran, etc.. You just need to be guided unto the right path, retufe not to be deceived @haekymbahd

AgentNairaland:
If someone submit to the will of God, he or she should submit totally to his commandments, to his principles, to his says, etc. But while Moses, Abraham, etc that you claimed were Muslims while alive, none of them prayed five or four times a day, none of them took kettle wash their body as you always do in Islam before praying and still they are Muslims. None of them perform holy Pilgrimage to mecca, none of them read from the quran, etc.. You just need to be guided unto the right path, retufe not to be deceived @haekymbahd

What is the will/commandment of God

Once upon a time a Jewish carpenter once said

Mathew 12
28 Then one of the scribes came up and listened to them disputing with one another, and, noticing that Jesus answered them fitly and admirably, he asked Him, Which commandment is first and most important of all [[h]in its nature]?

29 Jesus answered, The first and principal one of all commands is: Hear, O Israel, The Lord our God is one Lord;

30 And you shall love the Lord your God [i]out of and with your whole heart and out of and with all your soul (your [j]life) and out of and with all your mind (with [k]your faculty of thought and your moral understanding) and out of and with all your strength. [l]This is the first and principal commandment.(E)

31The second is like it and is this, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. There is no other commandment greater than these.(F)

32And the scribe said to Him, Excellently and fitly and admirably answered, Teacher! You have said truly that He is One, and there is no other but Him;

33And to love Him out of and with all the heart and with all the understanding [with the [m]faculty of quick apprehension and intelligence and keenness of discernment] and with all the strength, and to love one's neighbor as oneself, is much more than all the whole burnt offerings and sacrifices. [I Sam. 15:22; Hos. 6:6; Mic. 6:6-8; Heb. 10:8.]

34And when Jesus saw that he answered intelligently (discreetly and [n]having his wits about him), He said to him, You are not far from the kingdom of God. And after that no one ventured or dared to ask Him any further question.




My God is Almighty Allah (God Almighty) the God of Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, David, Solomon e.t.c one God. According to Jews Moses said Yahweh claims he is Allah so the onus is on them to prove Yahweh is Allah not for me to prove Allah is Yahweh because the name Allah predates Yahweh.

Exodus 6
2And God said to Moses, I am the Lord.

3I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob as God Almighty but by My [a]name the Lord [Yahweh] I did not make Myself known to them.


Allah SWT said:

"They say, Be Jews or Christians [so] you will be guided. Say, Rather, [we follow] the religion of Abraham, inclining toward truth, and he was not of the polytheists."
(QS. Al-Baqara 2: Verse 135)

"Then We revealed to you, [O Muhammad], to follow the religion of Abraham, inclining toward truth; and he was not of those who associate with Allah."
(QS. An-Nahl 16: Verse 123)



Abraham, moses, Jesus e.t.c didn't disbelieve rather their followers disbelieved after clear proofs came to them hence they were cursed.

Mathew 23
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, murdering the prophets and stoning those who are sent to you! How often would I have gathered your children together as a mother fowl gathers her brood under her wings, and you refused!

38 Behold, your house is forsaken and desolate (abandoned and left destitute of God's help). [I Kings 9:7; Jer. 22:5.]

39 For I declare to you, you will not see Me again until you say, Blessed (magnified in worship, adored, and exalted) is He Who comes in the name of the Lord!


You are a Christian are you a submitter to the will/commandment of God, do you worship one God who sent Jesus or you worship Jesus himself as God?


Mind you God made promise to the son of the bond woman

Genesis 21
12 God said to Abraham, Do not let it seem grievous and evil to you because of the youth and your bondwoman; in all that Sarah has said to you, do what she asks, for in Isaac shall your posterity be called.(C)

13 And I will make a nation of the son of the bondwoman also, because he is your offspring

Allah SWT said:

"And [mention] when We made the House a place of return for the people and [a place of] security. And take, [O believers], from the standing place of Abraham a place of prayer. And We charged Abraham and Ishmael, [saying], Purify My House for those who perform Tawaf and those who are staying [there] for worship and those who bow and prostrate [in prayer]."
(QS. Al-Baqara 2: Verse 125)

* Via Qur'an English http://quran-en.com


After disobedience from the followers of the previous prophet. Allah sent Muhammad from the lineage of Ishmael to establish the truth and abolish falsehood.


So do you expect the followers of Muhammad to go to Jerusalem which had been cursed, when the house of God is also at makkah.

The same God that gave Moses (Torah), also gave Jesus (Gospel) so thus Muslims reading the Quran discredit them from worshipping God Almighty (Allah) the God of Abraham.


Concerning the carrying of kettle you talked about do you have any explanation for this

Exodus 41
31 And Moses and Aaron and his sons washed their hands and their feet there.

32 When they went into the Tent of Meeting or came near the altar, they washed, as the Lord commanded Moses.


Allah SWT said:

"Indeed this, your religion, is one religion, and I am your Lord, so worship Me."
(QS. Al-Anbiyaa 21: Verse 92)

* Via Qur'an English http://quran-en.com

All what you wrote above has not solve what I asked. If these people are Muslims, just quote where it is written that they wash their body, legs, mouth, hands, head (ablution) before praying not to talk of how to went to Saudi Arabia to perform holy pilgrimage @haekymbahd

They have been programmed to think that way by their Islamic scholars and islamic apologists.
Ask them a pertinent question about islam they will start quoting A VERSE in Bible.
How can you say BACA mentioned in the book of psalms is the same with Bakka in the Arabia. Psalms is even a book of songs and poetry. ( i dont want to even explain the meaning of BACA in Hebrew)

For the fact they always refer to the bible to prove a point in Islam means there's an authencity problems.
I mean islamic scholars have repeatedly say the Bible has been corrupted over the time. How come you're still refering to the same Bible to prove the authencity of your religion?

The city of Mecca was not mentioned in any texts or book prior to 8th century then how come it is now mentioned in the Bible that has been in existence thousands of year before islam.
That argument doesn't make sense jorrrr
They even said Abraham and Ismael went to Mecca to erect a temple (known as Kabaa).
In Judeo-Christian texts we were aware of 4 temples built by Abraham and all of them are in the region of present day Jerusalem, how come he walked ALL THE WAY TO MECCA to erect a temple. (Yeh right!)

BnQoyyim:


Moses is a Muslim with additional following points of mine. Thus, Isrealite- the people of Moses in His lifetime practiced nothing but Islam.
Ok, here is another verses:
Exodus 34:8
Number 20:6 Moses and Haron prostrate in worship
Deuteronomy 9:18-20 and 25-27

So prostrate in worship to you is the same as knocking the head on the floor as abdools do this days?

Tiiitoo:
They have been programmed to think that way by their Islamic scholars and islamic apologists.
Ask them a pertinent question about islam they will start quoting A VERSE in Bible.
How can you say BACA mentioned in the book of psalms is the same with Bakka in the Arabia. Psalms is even a book of songs and poetry. ( i dont want to even explain the meaning of BACA in Hebrew)

For the fact they always refer to the bible to prove a point in Islam means there's an authencity problems.
I mean islamic scholars have repeatedly say the Bible has been corrupted over the time. How come you're still refering to the same Bible to prove the authencity of your religion?

The city of Mecca was not mentioned in any texts or book prior to 8th century then how come it is now mentioned in the Bible that has been in existence thousands of year before islam.
That argument doesn't make sense jorrrr
They even said Abraham and Ismael went to Mecca to erect a temple (known as Kabaa).
In Judeo-Christian texts we were aware of 4 temples built by Abraham and all of them are in the region of present day Jerusalem, how come he walked ALL THE WAY TO MECCA to erect a temple. (Yeh right!)

Don't blame them, they've lent out their brains to their 7th century Arabian caravan robber called prophet

Hendtime:

So prostrate in worship to you is the same as knocking the head on the floor as abdools do this days?

You don't necessarily needs to rely on your own reasoning, perhaps, it appear shallow.
Thus, consult different kinds of dictionary to understand the meaning of Prostrate.
Prostrate is neither clapping nor dancing.
Prostrate is quite different from kneeling, eyes closing and shouting.

BnQoyyim:


You don't necessarily needs to rely on your own reasoning, perhaps, it appear shallow.
Thus, consult different kinds of dictionary to understand the meaning of Prostrate.
Prostrate is neither clapping nor dancing.
Prostrate is quite different from kneeling, eyes closing and shouting.

Abdool of you are not suppose to be this dvmb. A simple question is how did prostrate equall facing the qibla /kaaba?

Hendtime:


Abdool of you are not suppose to be this dvmb. A simple question is how did prostrate equall facing the qibla /kaaba?

I can vividly deducted that you're suffering from a cognitive spillage. Where is the qibla in your first assertion?
Wake up and stop using diaper, ok !

BnQoyyim:


I can vividly deducted that you're suffering from a cognitive spillage. Where is the qibla in your first assertion?
Wake up and stop using diaper, ok !

Explain and quit being silly, show a proof how facing the qibla/kaaba is the same as prostrating.

FYI: my first question has not been changed you just can't decipher things because you're an abdool.
This is my earlier comment which is giving you sleepless night So prostrate in worship to you is the same as knocking the head on the floor as abdools do this days? you can see it has not been changed as you claimed unless you want to say that Muslims don't face kaaba/qibla

Now can you please respond reasonably?

Hendtime:

Explain and quit being silly, show a proof how facing the qibla/kaaba is the same as prostrating.

FYI: my first question has not been changed you just can't decipher things because you're an abdool.
This is my earlier comment which is giving you sleepless night So prostrate in worship to you is the same as knocking the head on the floor as abdools do this days? you can see it has not been changed as you claimed unless you want to say that Muslims don't face kaaba/qibla

Now can you please respond reasonably?

Sorry !

BnQoyyim:


Sorry !

Hendtime:

Explain and quit being silly, show a proof how facing the qibla/kaaba is the same as prostrating.

FYI: my first question has not been changed you just can't decipher things because you're an abdool.
This is my earlier comment which is giving you sleepless night So prostrate in worship to you is the same as knocking the head on the floor as abdools do this days? you can see it has not been changed as you claimed unless you want to say that Muslims don't face kaaba/qibla

Now can you please respond reasonably?

Are you trying to say Abraham, Moses, Jesus didnt face a qiblah

Mind you Israelites have been facing qiblah even before Moses. Jesus was born a Jew and he also prayed at the temple at Jerusalem definitely he also followed a qiblah

"And He withdrew from them about a stone's throw and knelt down and prayed, (Luke 22:41)

"And he (Jesus) went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed..." (Matthew 26:39)

"And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship..." (Joshua 5:14)

"And Moses and Aaron went from the presence of the assembly unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and they fell upon their faces…" (Numbers 20:6)

"And Abraham fell on his face..." (Genesis 17:3)

"…and they fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God." (Revelation 7:11)

"…then they bowed their heads and worshiped the Lord with their faces to the ground." (Nehemiah 8:6)

"…Then David and the elders of Israel, who were clothed in sackcloth, fell upon their faces." (1 Chronicles 21:16)

In many others places in the Bible where we find the method of prayer mentioned, it calls to mind the way Muslims pray. In the Bible book entitled Daniel we are able to read a description of Daniel praying to God in a time of great crisis.

"Now when Daniel knew that the writing was signed, he went into his house; and his windows being open in his chamber toward Jerusalem, he kneeled upon his knees three times a day, and prayed, and gave thanks before his God, as he did a foretime." (Daniel 6:10)

It is interesting to note that Prophet Daniel prayed towards Jerusalem. In the early days of Prophet Mohammad’s mission the faithful also prayed towards Jerusalem. However the Muslim direction of prayer changed. About sixteen months after Prophet Muhammad and his followers migrated from Mecca to the city of Medina the direction was changed to facing the sacred House of God in Mecca.

Descriptions of the positions Muslims adopt in the five ritual prayers per day can be found throughout the Bible. Many are mentioned in the book of Psalms.

"Stand in awe, and sin not."(Psalms 4:4)

"O come, let us worship and bow down: let us kneel before the Lord our maker." (Psalms 95:6)

"…all that go down to the dust shall bow before him…" (Psalms 22:29)

And in the book of Kings we find Prophet Elijah casting himself upon the earth in the position of kneeling before touching the forehead to the ground.

"…and he cast himself down upon the earth, and put his face between his knees." (1 Kings 18:42)

This is a position very familiar to Muslims. So too is the position Jesus adopts during prayer in a moment of fear and uncertainty.

"And he (Jesus) was withdrawn from them about a stone’s cast, and kneeled down, and prayed." (Luke 22:41)

Even though the Jews and Christians today do not pray as we read in the Bible, Muslims continue to pray in a similar way to the prophets, as intended by the Creator of the heavens and the earth.