MOSES DIED IN DEUTERONOMY

Deuteronomy 34:5-7
[5]So Moses the servant of the Lord died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the Lord.
[6]And He buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, opposite Beth Peor; but no one knows his grave to this day.
[7] Moses was one hundred and twenty years old when he died. [/b]His eyes were not dim nor his natural vigor diminished.

THOUSANDS OF YEARS LATER, MOSES APPEARS TO JESUS BEFORE THE DISCIPLES HERE ON EARTH

Matthew 17:1-3

[1]Now after six days Jesus took Peter, James, and John his brother, led them up on a high mountain by themselves;
[2]and He was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and His clothes became as white as the light.
[3]And behold, [b]Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him.

NOTe: Moses had died thousands of years back but there appeared to Jesus. It means, though physically speaking, Moses died and was buried, yet he (Moses) still existed in the spiritual realm. All those who have died are still existing in the spiritual realm

True talk

ChristisGod:

MOSES DIED IN DEUTERONOMY

Deuteronomy 34:5-7
[5]So Moses the servant of the Lord died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the Lord.
[6]And He buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, opposite Beth Peor; but no one knows his grave to this day.
[7] Moses was one hundred and twenty years old when he died. [/b]His eyes were not dim nor his natural vigor diminished.

THOUSANDS OF YEARS LATER, MOSES APPEARS TO JESUS BEFORE THE DISCIPLES HERE ON EARTH

Matthew 17:1-3

[1]Now after six days Jesus took Peter, James, and John his brother, led them up on a high mountain by themselves;
[2]and He was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and His clothes became as white as the light.
[3]And behold, [b]Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him.

NOTe: Moses had died thousands of years back but there appeared to Jesus. It means, though physically speaking, Moses died and was buried, yet he (Moses) still existed in the spiritual realm. All those who have died are still existing in the spiritual realm

Um... Under the Old Covenant, those who lived righteous lives were given the promise of Life .I.e. eternal/afterlife, whereas those disobeyed God’s Law were promised, death .I.e., perish in the grave/cessation in the grave - Deuteronomy 30 vs 15 - 20. .

So, when you read of people like Moses, Samuel etc. Whose spirits existed even after their death, recall that these were men who lived righteous lives before their deaths.

In Ezekiel 18 vs 1- 36 & Ezekiel 33 vs 10 - 20, God reiterated this same promise of Old when He again swore by His name that those who do good/live righteous will live while the one who sins will die-cease to exist in the grave without an afterlife.

Kobojunkie:
Um... Under the Old Covenant, those who lived righteous lives were given the promise of Life .I.e. eternal/afterlife, whereas those disobeyed God’s Law were promised, death .I.e., perish in the grave/cessation in the grave - Deuteronomy 30 vs 15 - 20. .

So, when you read of people like Moses, Samuel etc. Whose spirits existed even after their death, recall that these were men who lived righteous lives before their deaths.

In Ezekiel 18 vs 1- 36 & Ezekiel 33 vs 10 - 20, God reiterated this same promise of Old when He again swore by His name that those who do good/live righteous will live while the one who sins will die-cease to exist in the grave without an afterlife.

Liar

Lazurus the rich man will judge you

JW doctrine is the equivalent of Satan's daily sermon in hellfire

Ammishaddai:
JW doctrine is the equivalent of Satan's daily sermon in hellfire

I tell u dear

ChristisGod:



I tell u dear

Na so my brother . Make God deliver them

ChristisGod:

Liar
Lazurus the rich man will judge you

Jesus Christ used the parable/story of Lazarus and the rich man to explain to the people that no one will be sent back from the dead to inform the living of the consequences of sin. It was not a story to inform you of the truth of the afterlife because the same Jesus Christ taught His own that there will be no one in Heaven or in Hell until after His return.
So, if there is no one in Heaven and no one in Hell, why was the rich man in the story in a place called Hell? Or is there a different Hell for jews and a different one for Christians? These are some of the intelligent questions a person ought to ask after reading the parable the story of Lazarus and the rich man.

Deuteronomy 30 vs 15-20 clearly informed you of God’s promises made to the Jews in His Old Covenant and Death is as defined in Genesis 3 vs 17- 19 - there is no mention of a Heaven or a Hell either. So, it is wrong to ofcourse assume by adding to God's Law as that is against God.

[s]

Kobojunkie:
Jesus Christ used the parable/story of Lazarus and the rich man to explain to the people that no one will be sent back from the dead to inform the living of the consequences of sin. It was not a story to inform you of the truth of the afterlife because the same Jesus Christ taught His own that there will be no one in Heaven or in Hell until after His return.
So, if there is no one in Heaven and no one in Hell, why was the rich man in the story in a place called Hell? Or is there a different Hell for jews and a different one for Christians? These are some of the intelligent questions a person ought to ask after reading the parable the story of Lazarus and the rich man.

Deuteronomy 30 vs 15-20 clearly informed you of God’s promises made to the Jews in His Old Covenant and Death is as defined in Genesis 3 vs 17- 19 - there is no mention of a Heaven or a Hell either. So, it is wrong to ofcourse assume by adding to God's Law as that is against God.

[/s] You are confused and will surely perish if you continue along this path . When Jesus spoke about the grave , did He not mention something about a place Where their worms do not die and the fire is not quench ...? Oga , repent before you die in denial of what the bible has lawfully stated as existing

Ammishaddai:
[s][/s] You are confused and will surely perish if you continue along this path . When Jesus spoke about the grave , did He not mention something about a place Where their worms do not die and the fire is not quench ...? Oga , repent before you die in denial of what the bible has lawfully stated as existing

Jesus Christ mainly to you of that which applies to the New Covenant and those who believe in Him and not of that which belongs to those of the Old Covenant.

So endeavor to learn the difference between the Old Covenant and and New Covenant, and also learn how not to be decieved by scriptural soundbites spewed at you especially by your Mogs, and pay close attention to context when reading through even that which is said by Jesus Christ.

Isaiah 66 vs 22 - 24(ERV)

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22. The Lord says, “I will make a new world—new heavens and a new earth—that will last forever. In the same way, your names and your children will always be with me.
23. Everyone will come to worship me on every worship day; they will come every Sabbath and every first day of the month.[h] This is what I, the Lord, have said.
24. “Whoever goes out of the city will see the dead bodies of those who sinned against me. The worms eating those bodies will never die, and the fires burning them will never go out. It will be horrible to anyone who sees it.”

As you can see, Jesus Christ was quoting there Isaiah, who spoke of God's New Heaven and New Earth's, promised to those of the New Covenant who believe in Jesus Christ, and not those of the Old Covenant.

[s]

Kobojunkie:
Learn the difference between the Old Covenant and and New Covenant, and also learn how not to be decieved by scriptural soundbites spewed at you especially by your Mogs, and pay close attention to context when reading through even that which is said by Jesus Christ.
As you can see, Jesus Christ was quoting there Isaiah, who spoke of God's New Heaven and New Earth's, promised to those of the New Covenant who believe in Jesus Christ, and not those of the Old Covenant.

[/s] You are filled with deep hypocrisy that only Jeus can conquer. At first you said the narrative of Lazarus and the rich man was a parable but as I mentioned another instance of Jesus speaking plainly about hellfire ,you suddenly says its soundbites spoken with context... ? Hahahaha ...do not worry , when you see yourself in the lake of fire ,then you will understand the true meaning of Jesus' warning

Ammishaddai:
[s][/s] You are filled with deep hypocrisy that only Jeus can conquer. At first you said the narrative of Lazarus and the rich man was a parable but as I mentioned another instance of Jesus speaking plainly about hellfire ,you suddenly says its soundbites spoken with context... ? Hahahaha ...do not worry , when you see yourself in the lake of fire ,then you will understand the true meaning of Jesus' warning

You are mixing beliefs here is the problem.

1. Moses, whom the Op used as his example was of the Old Covenant and not of the new Covenant. And Deuteronomy 30 vs 15 - 20 clearly tells you what what promise was for those or the Old Covenant.

2. Still following the Old Covenant example, the OP then brought up the story of Lazarus and the Richman, a parable Jesus Christ in- Luke 16 vs 19 - 31.

30 “The rich man said, ‘No, father Abraham! But if someone came to them from the dead, then they would decide to change their lives.’

31 “But Abraham said to him, ‘If your brothers won’t listen to Moses and the prophets, they won’t listen to someone who comes back from the dead.’” - Luke 16 vs 30 - 31

He probably searched for mentions of Moses in the New testament for this. Unfortunately, he gave a literal translation to that which is instead meant as a parable and hence reason why I pointed him back to the promise that God Himself gave to those of Old Covenant.

3. You then chose to point to reference to teaching on Hell as prophesied even by Isaiah the prophet, this still outside of the Old Law.

There is need to pay attention to context when reading scripture so as not to be deceived by soundbites which many are chuck full of without real understanding. Learn the difference between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant so you do not continue to mistake the promises of the one and the other. Also , when reading ,pay attention to context so you do not mistake that which is given as a parable as a literal story.

[s]

Kobojunkie:
You are mixing beliefs here is the problem.

1. Moses, whom the Op used as his example was of the Old Covenant and not of the new Covenant. And Deuteronomy 30 vs 15 - 20 clearly tells you what what promise was for those or the Old Covenant.

2. Still following the Old Covenant example, the OP then brought up the story of Lazarus and the Richman, a parable Jesus Christ in- Luke 16 vs 19 - 31.
He probably searched for mentions of Moses in the New testament for this. Unfortunately, he gave a literal translation to that which is instead meant as a parable and hence reason why I pointed him back to the promise that God Himself gave to those of Old Covenant.

3. You then chose to point to reference to teaching on Hell as prophesied even by Isaiah the prophet, this still outside of the Old Law.

There is need to pay attention to context when reading scripture so as not to be deceived by soundbites which many are chuck full of without real understanding. Learn the difference between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant so you do not continue to mistake the promises of the one and the other. Also , when reading ,pay attention to context so you do not mistake that which is given as a parable as a literal story.

[/s] You speak as if you did not read the part of the bible where Jesus spoke plainly of hellfire in front of an audience (Matthew 25:41) . The bible lets us understand that Jesus used parables to speak of literal examples that were indirect admonitions to what was installed for those who would deviate from God's redemptive plan. For example "Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels" (Matt24:41)



From the bolded ,it is quite clear that there is a fire somewhere waiting for those who do not a accept the Death of Jesus as a token for their sins .

By reading the whole Gospels ,you will find that Jesus spoke about Heaven only once but spoke of Hellfire 11 times . Now why would He make mention of this place if it did not exist ? The answer: Because He was warning His listeners


And Secondly, my question runs parallel to what the OP is saying so let get that straight .

Ammishaddai:
[s][/s] You speak as if you did not read the part of the bible where Jesus spoke plainly of hellfire in front of an audience (Matthew 25:41) . The bible lets us understand that Jesus used parables to speak of literal examples that were indirect admonitions to what was installed for those who would deviate from God's redemptive plan. For example "Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels" (Matt24:41)

From the bolded ,it is quite clear that there is a fire somewhere waiting for those who do not a accept the Death of Jesus as a token for their sins .

By reading the whole Gospels ,you will find that Jesus spoke about Heaven only once but spoke of Hellfire 11 times . Now why would He make mention of this place if it did not exist ? The answer: Because He was warning His listeners


And Secondly, my question runs parallel to what the OP is saying so let get that straight .

Again, you need to learn of the separation between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant. Moses was an Old Covenant adherents and so the Law that applies to His case is that which is of the Old Covenant and not that taught by Jesus Christ.

The Old Covenant rules and promises for the Kingdom of Canaan are as detailed in the Book of the Law ( Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy) . So rather than fish around in the New Covenant for that to apply to examples from the Old Covenant like Moses, you should instead search the appropriate texts.

Jesus Christ and His teachings belong to those of the New Covenant, a different set of rules and promises ror a different Kingdom - the Kingdom of God.

Arguing randomly disregarding context is what you continue to attempt and it is common sense never to attempt such so why you think you can do that where even scripture is concerned is beyond me.

[s]

Kobojunkie:
Again, you need to learn of the separation between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant. Moses was an Old Covenant adherents and so the Law that applies to His case is that which is of the Old Covenant and not that taught by Jesus Christ.

The Old Covenant rules and promises for the Kingdom of Canaan are as detailed in the Book of the Law ( Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy) . So rather than fish around in the New Covenant for that to apply to examples from the Old Covenant like Moses, you should instead search the appropriate texts.

Jesus Christ and His teachings belong to those of the New Covenant, a different set of rules and promises ror a different Kingdom - the Kingdom of God.

Arguing randomly disregarding context is what you continue to attempt and it is common sense never to attempt such so why you think you can do that where even scripture is concerned is beyond me.

[/s] Please when talking to me , kindly bring scriptural references to support your explanations. And don't come here parading those fairytales doctrines your JW cult taught you in secret without the scripture to support them

Ammishaddai:
[s][/s] Please when talking to me , kindly bring scriptural references to support your explanations. And don't come here parading those fairytales doctrines your JW cult taught you in secret without the scripture to support them

So, the scriptures I provided earlier, all of them attributed to God Himself and instructing you of His promise and word is as pertains those who belong in His Old Covenant, were of no relevance to this for you?

The Op created this thread with an Old Covenant prophet as His example and so what you ought to then do is learn what God's Law and promises are as pertains those of the Old Covenant. The books of the Law of Moses are mainly Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy and in Deuteronomy 30 vs 15 - 20, God more than makes clear the promises that apply to those of His Old Covenant and the offer of Life and Death(cessation/perishing) reiterated.

Existence is a continuity. I believe more in reincarnation

CHINESEENGLISH:
Existence is a continuity. I believe more in reincarnation

And this idea based on what?

[s]

Kobojunkie:
So, the scriptures I provided earlier, all of them attributed to God Himself and instructing you of His promise and word is as pertains those who belong in His Old Covenant, were of no relevance to this for you?

The Op created this thread with an Old Covenant prophet as His example and so what you ought to then do is learn what God's Law and promises are as pertains those of the Old Covenant. The books of the Law of Moses are mainly Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy and in Deuteronomy 30 vs 15 - 20, God more than makes clear the promises that apply to those of His Old Covenant and the offer of Life and Death(cessation/perishing) reiterated.

[/s] You are talking trash as usual . Kindly make your point clear instead of shifting topics like someone who is mentally unstable

Ammishaddai:
[s][/s] You are talking trash as usual . Kindly make your point clear instead of shifting topics like someone who is mentally unstable

So, the scriptures I provided earlier, all of them attributed to God Himself and instructing you of His promise and word is as pertains those who belong in His Old Covenant, were of no relevance to this for you?

The Op created this thread with an Old Covenant prophet as His example and so what you ought to then do is learn what God's Law and promises are as pertains those of the Old Covenant. The books of the Law of Moses are mainly Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy and in Deuteronomy 30 vs 15 - 20, God more than makes clear the promises that apply to those of His Old Covenant and the offer of Life and Death(cessation/perishing) reiterated.

Kobojunkie:
So, the scriptures I provided earlier, all of them attributed to God Himself and instructing you of His promise and word is as pertains those who belong in His Old Covenant, were of no relevance to this for you?

The Op created this thread with an Old Covenant prophet as His example and so what you ought to then do is learn what God's Law and promises are as pertains those of the Old Covenant. The books of the Law of Moses are mainly Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy and in Deuteronomy 30 vs 15 - 20, God more than makes clear the promises that apply to those of His Old Covenant and the offer of Life and Death(cessation/perishing) reiterated.

The covenant of Jesus and the covenant of Moses, which is more binding to the salvation of humanity?

Ammishaddai:
The covenant of Jesus and the covenant of Moses, which is more binding to the salvation of humanity?

which is more binding in what sense? And what salvation of humanity do you speak of?

Are those who are born bound(by blood) to the Old Covenant less "saved" than those who are not?

[s]

Kobojunkie:
which is more binding in what sense? And what salvation of humanity do you speak of?

Are those who are born bound(by blood) to the Old Covenant less "saved" than those who are not?

[/s] Kindly answer the question from my last post before you throw more confusion into thread

Ammishaddai:
[s][/s] Kindly answer the question from my last post before you throw more confusion into thread

The question you asked has nothing to do with the topic of this thread or anything that has been said so far in it.
Also, your question makes no sense at all as it is an attempt at comparing apples with oranges - two different Laws defined for government in two different Lands/Kingdoms.

Kobojunkie:
The question you asked has nothing to do with the topic of this thread or anything that has been said so far in it.
Also, your question makes no sense at all as it is an attempt at comparing apples with oranges - two different Laws defined for government in two different Lands/Kingdoms.

Just hold on bros... . You initially brought a post that made mention of the Lazarus narrative as a parable and when I showed you that this was a literal explanation (citing matt24:41) , you said it was spoken in regards to " context ". And now you have shifted stance(again )by saying my question (which happens to still be link to the topic) has no relation to the topic . How come ? How...or are you not following?

Ammishaddai:

JW doctrine is the equivalent of Satan's daily sermon in hellfire

Why is it that you people can't do a single thing without JWs? Matthew 5:13-16
Must you always cry after JWs in everything you do? Micah 4:1

Ammishaddai:
Just hold on bros... . You initially brought a post that made mention of the Lazarus narrative as a parable and when I showed you that this was a literal explanation (citing matt24:41) , you said it was spoken in regards to " context ". And now you have shifted stance(again )by saying my question (which happens to still be link to the topic) has no relation to the topic . How come ? How...or are you not following?

I didn't create the context of this here discussion neither did I bring up the post about Lazarus in this. The Op did that in his attempt to suggest that humans do not perish in the grave, this even as God Himself condemned man to in Genesis 3 vs 17 - 19.

The Op referenced an Old Covenant prophet, Moses, whose existence was bound by the Old Covenant Law. The Op then attempted to assert using the story told by Jesus Christ in Luke 16 vs 19-31 that there was an afterlife for all, an error since not only was the story not meant to be taken literally(a parable) but also because it is of the New Covenant and not the Old Covenant to which his example, Moses, belonged.

When debating scriptural ideas, it is necessary to pay attention to context even where Laws are concerned since we are not all of us(humanity) under the same Law. Even when attempting to compare Laws, one needs to clearly understand each Law before one attempts such a comparison.

---

In the New Covenant, there is a Heaven and a Hell in the Kingdom of God, this as taught us by Jesus Christ. And yes, both remain vacant until after Jesus Christ comes to judge the works of all those who believe in Him as is stated in Matthew 25 vs 31 - 46 .I.e. there are currently no souls in Heaven or Hell still.

Kobojunkie:
I didn't create the context of this here discussion neither did I bring up the post about Lazarus in this. The Op did that in his attempt to suggest that humans do not perish in the grave, this even as God Himself condemned man to in Genesis 3 vs 17 - 19.

The Op referenced an Old Covenant prophet, Moses, whose existence was bound by the Old Covenant Law. The Op then attempted to assert using the story told by Jesus Christ in Luke 16 vs 19-31 that there was an afterlife for all, an error since not only was the story not meant to be taken literally(a parable) but also because it is of the New Covenant and not the Old Covenant to which his example, Moses, belonged.

When debating scriptural ideas, it is necessary to pay attention to context even where Laws are concerned since we are not all of us(humanity) under the same Law. Even when attempting to compare Laws, one needs to clearly understand each Law before one attempts such a comparison.

---

In the New Covenant, there is a Heaven and a Hell in the Kingdom of God, this as taught us by Jesus Christ. And yes, both remain vacant until after Jesus Christ comes to judge the works of all those who believe in Him as is stated in Matthew 25 vs 31 - 46 .I.e. there are currently no souls in Heaven or Hell still.

Kobo, the purpose of this discussion is clarify if there is a life after death that has the existence of a hellfire . And I remember asking you a direct question ,to which you gave direct answers by saying Jesus' narrative of Lazarus and the rich man ,was a parable that was not to be taken in its literal interpretation.

On seeing this , I then stated that the parable Jesus used was more than just a parable. And to buttress my point , I gave reference to a verse in Matthew that debunked that claim of yours that tagged Jesus' words regarding the Lazarus narrative as "soundbites "...abi, no be wetin you talk be that ?

Ammishaddai:
JW doctrine is the equivalent of Satan's daily sermon in hellfire

See as you dey DECEIVE yourself.
2 Thess 1:7-9

7 And God will provide rest for you who are being persecuted and also for us when the Lord Jesus appears from heaven. He will come with his mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire, bringing judgment on those who don’t know God and on those who refuse to obey the Good News of our Lord Jesus. 9 They will be punished with eternal destruction, forever separated from the Lord and from his glorious power. 1

ChristisGod:

MOSES DIED IN DEUTERONOMY

Deuteronomy 34:5-7
[5]So Moses the servant of the Lord died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the Lord.
[6]And He buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, opposite Beth Peor; but no one knows his grave to this day.
[7] Moses was one hundred and twenty years old when he died. [/b]His eyes were not dim nor his natural vigor diminished.

THOUSANDS OF YEARS LATER, MOSES APPEARS TO JESUS BEFORE THE DISCIPLES HERE ON EARTH

Matthew 17:1-3

[1]Now after six days Jesus took Peter, James, and John his brother, led them up on a high mountain by themselves;
[2]and He was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and His clothes became as white as the light.
[3]And behold, [b]Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him.

NOTe: Moses had died thousands of years back but there appeared to Jesus. It means, though physically speaking, Moses died and was buried, yet he (Moses) still existed in the spiritual realm. All those who have died are still existing in the spiritual realm

Genesis 3:19,
Is Adam existing in the spiritual realm?

Ammishaddai:
Kobo, the purpose of this discussion is clarify if there is a life after death that has the existence of a hellfire . And I remember asking you a direct question ,to which you gave direct answers by saying Jesus' narrative of Lazarus and the rich man ,was a parable that was not to be taken in its literal interpretation.

On seeing this , I then stated that the parable Jesus used was more than just a parable. And to buttress my point , I gave reference to a verse in Matthew that debunked that claim of yours that tagged Jesus' words regarding the Lazarus narrative as "soundbites "...abi, no be wetin you talk be that ?

As i have tried to explain, the fault began with the OP not making his intentions clear. Citing Moses as an explain already closed the context of the discussion, and that is reason I began by pointing out references that had to do with God's Old Covenant Law and context that applied to it.

Kobojunkie:
As i have tried to explain, the fault began with the OP not making his intentions clear. Citing Moses as an explain already closed the context of the discussion, and that is reason I began by pointing out references that had to do with God's Old Covenant Law and context that applied to it.

That means you are challenging an argument without having a concrete personal opinion as to what is right abi?