Bishopkingsley:


that guy does not believe in the Bible but says he only believes in Jesus words is that not strange

Well some of us believe in the bible. If he don't believe the bible, he should tell us where he read Christ words.

breathelove:

Read Ephesians 5:25... you are wrong abut loving your wife

The Word of God is quoted in the Gospels and not in Ephesians. And since the Law cannot be changed or added to or deleted, it is the Law you are meant to submit to and obey and not the words of men.

breathelove:

So when you bring up your kids, would you teach them to hate each other?

Why would I do any such when Jesus Christ commands that we love our neighbors even as we love our own self.

Kobojunkie:
What God teaches is against war? Not sure I follow... war isn't the only reason why one who chooses to become a Soldier would not be in compliance with God's Law hence the reason why i stated that the very fact that two Masters exist makes it a non-entry.

Now, as for defending those defenseless, I am commanded to love my neighbor even as I love my own self, am I not?

God did not teach against war. God himself commanded war. He is the mighty man in battle.
So how can he teach against war. That would be hypocrisy.

Kobojunkie:
Why would I do any such when Jesus Christ commands that we love our neighbors even as we love our own self.

Were you not the one that said Christ taught us to hate our family? These were your word.
"Jesus Christ instead said you should abandoned your loved ones for His sake... hate them so you can love Him. Anyone who does not do this is not worthy of Him, Jesus Christ. undecided"

Kobojunkie:
The Word of God is quoted in the Gospels and not in Ephesians. And since the Law cannot be changed or added to or deleted, it is the Law you are meant to submit to and obey and not the words of men.

Well that is where I disagree with you.
Anyway thank's for making your point but since both of us don't believe in the bible, I don't see common ground for this discussion

breathelove:

God did not teach against war. God himself commanded war. He is the mighty man in battle.
So how can he teach against war. That would be hypocrisy.

Jesus Christ is God's New Covenant Law which God has called you to submitting to and obeying. So did Jesus Christ teach you to go to war in His name or for His sake?

Nelidee:


Let me say this first of all. I am aware that in the bible, God gave commandments to the nation of Israel to go to war and even to kill.

Why God would issue such a decree which to me contradicts the teachings of christ is beyond me.

However, I am deeply aware that the moment christ came and established the church, we follow and observe his teachings.

A person who calls himself/herself a Christian is: one who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ.

It is not easy to be a Christian. In fact, christ described one deciding to follow him as one carrying a torture stake. Obeying Christ's commandments is not easy. People will mock, ridicule and try to take advantage of the fact that you obey certain commandments which makes you appear weak and stupid. That is why being a follower of Christ requires patience and endurance.


Matthew 5:38-48

[b] 38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. 41 If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. 42 Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.
43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect [/b]

The above scripture is christ basically telling us to do whatever we can to promote peace. A Christian shouldn't attack or take revenge on those who attack him or her.

Jesus Christ led the way in promoting peace when he not only rebuked peter for slicing off the ear of a person who wanted to attack him, but also restored the ear of his attacker.

Lets answer your question.

"If I see someone hurting my loved one, would I be condemned for standing up for her?"

It depends on what you mean by standing up. If you mean revenge or attack the person back then you are doing the wrong thing. What if you beat the person and he/she comes back with people more dangerous than you? What if the person beats both you and your loved one together? How do you know who is at fault and who is not?

The best thing to do is provide a solution that brings peace. Be a peacemaker. That is what distinguishes a follower of Christ from those who are not.

You point is that God used to support war but he changed his ways?
The question here is not about love but it's interpretation.
Would you defendo me from danger or would you show love to the person hurting me?

Kobojunkie:
Jesus Christ is God's New Covenant Law which God has called you to submitting to and obeying. So did Jesus Christ teach you to go to war in His name or for His sake?

Yes.. there was a war in heaven. Fighting in the name of God did not start here

breathelove:

Were you not the one that said Christ taught us to hate our family? These were your word.
"Jesus Christ instead said you should abandoned your loved ones for His sake... hate them so you can love Him. Anyone who does not do this is not worthy of Him, Jesus Christ. undecided"

Are you suggesting that it is not possible to abandon your loved ones for the sake of Jesus Christ but still love your neighbors in obedience of Him?

breathelove:

Yes.. there was a war in heaven. Fighting in the name of God did not start here

There was a war in Heaven? God told you this or man did?

Kobojunkie:
Are you suggesting that it is not possible to abandon your loved ones for the sake of Jesus Christ but still love your neighbors in obedience of Him?

That's not the topic.
So you want to give birth to kids and abandon them for Christ abi?

Kobojunkie:
There was a war in Heaven? God told you this or man did?

God

breathelove:

God

Mind pointing out where He did this?

Kobojunkie:
Mind pointing out where He did this?

I don't understand your question

breathelove:

I don't understand your question

Scriptures reference for this war in Heaven.

Kobojunkie:
Scriptures reference for this war in Heaven.

Some other time biko

breathelove:

Some other time biko

Ok.

Revelation 12:7-17
King James Version
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

breathelove:
HI people,
So some preachers came to my shop yesterday and we had a very long discussion.
Then this topic of war came up.
I would love to hear from others. What does the bible say.
Is it wrong for a Christian to join the army and fight.
Please I peer bible teaches than personal views.

Hi there.

I was going to offer a brief, not-particularly detailed response, but then I scanned the thread and saw that you might be willing to deal with a more comprehensive answer and that some of your responders provide a cogent reason to tackle the associated questions in this discussion. So, I'm going to try to give you a more comprehensive--but still brief--answer.

First, wars are often fought by groups of people against other groups of people. That is, wars tend to happen between nations. Therefore, we should ask what nations are and why they sometimes go to war. Nations exist today because, at the tower of Babel, God created languages and scattered the previously ethnically homogeneous human race all over the world.

The reason for this was, as most Bible-readers know, that the human race had agreed to form one solid community opposed to God. Now, because of free will, that opposition was going to result in harm for those members of the human race that did not want to oppose God. As any average observer of human community can easily tell, when a large number of people decide to do something that they feel is good for their welfare, the minority are not often allowed to exist among them. They may be forced to join the majority or else be killed or suffer other serious consequences. This was not going to be different for the very few human beings at the time (as there are always so few believers) who chose to walk with God.

God acted then to preserve those who would stand with Him and to preserve the future of humanity. If faith was stamped out of the earth at that time, obviously, the Lord Jesus would never have been born. The answer then was to allow these unbelievers who hated God to exist but also save believers out of their hands. This God did by creating languages and scattering the people from that one geographic area they had all been concentrated. In other words, the Lord created the conditions for nations to form.

Are nations then bad? Although some people have argued that wars exist because nations exist and there would be no wars if there are no nations, the Bible does not hold this view. In the new universe that God will create for all those who believe to be with Him in for all eternity, there will be nations. In Revelation, we are given a glimpse of eternity to this effect.

​1 And he showed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding from the throne of God and of the Lamb. 2 In the middle of its street, and on either side of the river, was the tree of life, which bore twelve fruits, each tree yielding its fruit every month. The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. 3 And there shall be no more curse, but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His servants shall serve Him.
Revelation 22:1-3 (NKJV) (cf. Revelation 21:24-26; Isaiah 2:4; Micah 4:3).

The words "healing" and "curse" are poor translations the original text of the passage. The leaves of the trees of Life will be for the well-being rather than healing (since in eternity, there will be nothing that needs healing) of the nations. This means that they will provide wholesome, satisfying, and nourishing enjoyment to the population of the new universe. Also, since there will be no curse of any kind in the new universe, the issue there is the removal of division between people, especially between nations. The nations of the new universe will truly be siblings that do not war among themselves or even want to do so.

This is an even better promise than the one of the Millennium in Isaiah 2:4 and Micah 4:3 (referenced above). During the Millennium, because human beings will still have a sin nature, they will want to fight each other sometimes, but the Lord Jesus will not permit it. Through His perfect justice, He will quell all quarrels and solve all disagreements without allowing a breakout of violence in His dominions.

That is to say that wars exist for more reason than just the existence of nations.

Second, why then do wars exist? There are two biblical reasons that I can offer:

5 Surely for your lifeblood I will demand a reckoning; from the hand of every beast I will require it, and from the hand of man. From the hand of every man’s brother I will require the life of man.
6 “Whoever sheds man’s blood,
By man his blood shall be shed;
For in the image of God
He made man.
Genesis 9:5-6 (NKJV)

​1 Where do wars and fights come from among you? Do they not come from your desires for pleasure that war in your members? 2 You lust and do not have. You murder and covet and cannot obtain. You fight and war. Yet you do not have because you do not ask.
James 4:1-2 (NKJV)

In the first passage, the Lord makes it clear that He expects human beings to enforce justice among themselves. Through that statement, He was essentially creating human government and law and order. Human beings are responsible to prevent the cheapening of human life. If anyone, therefore, treats human life cheaply, then the human community is responsible to remove him from this life. This is the basis for what you might call "just wars." That is, godly wars are fought to preserve human life.

This is the type of wars that God commissioned the nation of Israel to fight to claim the Canaanite territories. As you must know, the Canaanite peoples were barbaric. They killed their own infants as ritual sacrifices to their bloodthirsty idols. That is indicative of their value for human life. Beyond that, they were brutal communities to live in. This is not something they automatically were. They took centuries to systematically grow their wickedness to that point. And God was patient with them, warning them through different events, and demonstrating to them how life ought to be through Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and the twelve patriarchs that lived among them for quite a while. They didn't listen. They only got worse until their evil seemed to become norm and other communities began to be seduced into the same wickedness by their prosperity. God then commissioned Israel to destroy their nationhood so that there could no longer be a cohesive Canaanite community that would perpetrated such evil.

In time, God had the same thing done to Israel too when Israel became just as wicked. He has continued to do the same thing throughout human history. Many nations have been destroyed through war even if not because the ones who destroyed them were trying to deliver divine justice but certainly because God used other nations to exact justice for the lives that were destroyed by those nations.

In the second passage, we see also that there is a kind of warring that has nothing to do with God's justice. In fact, we can say definitively that it is extremely rare to find any nation going to war because of God's justice. Even though God uses all wars to accomplish His own purposes, the agents He uses do not typically act in conscious agreement with God. They often set out to do something else entirely. That thing is often to try to take something that other people have that they want. In other words, human warring is often motivated by selfish lust.

This type of warring is thoroughly ungodly, and it is what we as believers ought to be avoiding. It is also what we are looking forward to seeing an end to with the return of Jesus Christ. Still, this type of warring can be used by the Lord to accomplish His justice in this world. Consider, for example, the commonly debated invasions of European people in the West and in Africa from about the 1500s until the 1800s. Any average history buff knows that much of this campaigning was for economic reasons. European nations were looking for wealth that they could take and they would take it by war if they could too. But many of the peoples that they destroyed in their bid for wealth were really nations that needed destroying. The wickedness of the indigenous nations of the Americas, for example, are well documented. The evil practices of even our own Nigerian peoples are also quite well documented too, for example, the killing of twins and ritual human sacrifice. Although we might be very wrong to call the European invaders good people, we can certainly say that their wars and domination of the lands that they came to did result in some punishment for the wickedness of the peoples of those lands and a change in some of their barbaric ways.

Third, does this mean that Christians are doing nothing wrong to join the army and go to fight wars? Not necessarily. The answer to whether Christians can rightly join the military and participate in wars is a little complex. On the one hand, Christians have a biblical responsibility to be truly patriotic and to follow the law.

​1 Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. 4 For he is God’s minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil. 5 Therefore you must be subject, not only because of wrath but also for conscience’ sake. 6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for they are God’s ministers attending continually to this very thing. 7 Render therefore to all their due: taxes to whom taxes are due, customs to whom customs, fear to whom fear, honor to whom honor.
8 Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law.
Romans 13:1-8 (NKJV)

To be clear, biblical patriotism is different than what is popular. It only holds that the believer is responsible to be a good citizen, to pay their taxes, obey good laws, and respect the government. If the government makes a bad law, that is, a law that requires us to disobey God, for example, a command to take the mark of the beast, the believer is not responsible to obey it. If the nation decides to embark on an obviously unjust war, the believer is not responsible to join in fighting it. But the nationhood of a community is something that the believer should respect and protect to the extent that he can do so in good conscience. The simple reason is that God wants nations to exist even if He does allow some nations to be destroyed from time to time.

On the other hand, nations can be wicked. To be clear, all nations are wicked in one way or another. There are no "Christian" nations anywhere. The only nation that can be termed "God's country" is Israel, and that nation does not currently exist. It will come back during the Tribulation when Moses and Elijah are brought back to prepare the Israelites for the return of their King. But nations can exceed what you might call "normal wickedness" and enter into the realm of egregious evil that will only warrant their destruction in some way. A somewhat contemporary example is Germany. Another is Japan. These countries were pretty much destroyed by the Second World War, but because there were enough people in them that did not buy into the status quo of their times, they were not completely erased from history like the Amalekites and the Sodomites and Gomorrites were. Sometimes, God does things like that. Now, what if a believer were a citizen of such a nation? Would they be right to fight in their military pursuing an obviously ungodly objective? I think not. But we must remember that the true objectives of wars are hardly ever communicated to the citizens of the countries that fight them. So, a believer may only be doing his godly duty by joining the military and eventually going to war without ever knowing that there was more to the war than he was told. Would he then be wrong? In that case, we can be quite sure that a Christian who is only doing what God commanded us to do to protect our nations should be accommodated in his ignorance such as it may be. This is why the question is regarded as a matter of application (see Romans 14).

In other words, this is not the kind of question that can be answered simply. We have to accommodate a lot of differences in our individual experiences and circumstances in answering it. Nonetheless, the general principle from the Bible is that there is nothing wrong in itself with joining the military and fighting wars. Whether doing so will be wrong for a specific individual will have to be figured out by that individual taking into account all of their circumstances, experiences, and the knowledge that they have of God and the world in which they live.

There are two caveats that I would make here. One, ignorance never absolves us of responsibility, not according to the Bible.

47 And that servant who knew his master’s will, and did not prepare himself or do according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48 But he who did not know, yet committed things deserving of stripes, shall be beaten with few. For everyone to whom much is given, from him much will be required; and to whom much has been committed, of him they will ask the more.
Luke 12:47-48 (NKJV)

We are responsible to learn all that the Bible teaches us about God and do our best to make common sense decisions that are spiritually productive. So, if we fail to learn and expand our common sense knowledge to make better decisions, we cannot plead ignorance as an excuse for failing to make the right decisions. Nonetheless, the Lord does accommodate our ignorance so that the punishment or discipline for failing as a result of ignorance is never as bad as the punishment for failing as a result of wilful disobedience.

Two, there is a time when joining the military and fighting wars might be unequivocally evil. When the Antichrist takes over during the Tribulation, all of the world's armed forces will be repurposed to destroying faith in Jesus Christ. It might be very foolish at that time to be in the military or to join his wars. In fact, every single soldier that joins the invasion of Israel at the end of the Tribulation will be summarily destroyed by the Lord at His return.

9 Proclaim this among the nations:
“Prepare for war!
Wake up the mighty men,
Let all the men of war draw near,
Let them come up.
10 Beat your plowshares into swords
And your pruning hooks into spears;
Let the weak say, ‘I am strong.’ ”
11 Assemble and come, all you nations,
And gather together all around.
Cause Your mighty ones to go down there, O LORD.
12 “Let the nations be wakened, and come up to the Valley of Jehoshaphat;
For there I will sit to judge all the surrounding nations.
13 Put in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe.
Come, go down;
For the winepress is full,
The vats overflow—
For their wickedness is great.”
14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision!
For the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.
15 The sun and moon will grow dark,
And the stars will diminish their brightness.
16 The LORD also will roar from Zion,
And utter His voice from Jerusalem;
The heavens and earth will shake;
But the LORD will be a shelter for His people,
And the strength of the children of Israel.
Joel 3:9-16 (NKJV) (compare Zechariah 14:1-15; 12:1-9; Ezekiel 38-39)

No one who has any sense will join the war of Armageddon on the Antichrist's side. And no one who does join his side at Armageddon will be spared by the Lord. They will all be killed by the Lord. So, wisdom during the Tribulation will probably be to stay away from the armed forces.

Please let me know if I can help you any further.

Cheers.