Yes there will be a resurrection that will occur, the reason why many do not understand the pretribulation rapture is time, they cannot accept that sometimes in prophecies time is ignored. What do I mean? In the old testament the prophecies concerning Christ first and second coming is spoken as if they will happen at the same time, but actually the two events were separated by thousands of years.

Same with the resurrection

Daniel 12:2
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

The resurrection is spoken as if the resurrection of the righteous and the unrighteous will take place at the same time but actually the both resurrection has a time gap between them.
Same with the prophecies of Jesus
John 5:28-29 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Again Jesus spoke as if the resurrection would take place at the same time but they are separated by atleast 1000 years.

First is the resurrection of the righteous which begins at the rapture, and comes to consummation when Jesus comes down to earth, after then the millennium reign of Christ followed by the second resurrection and then the judgment.

I personally I don not separate the rapture from the second coming of Christ only it takes place in stages, first is the rapture and then Christ comes down to the earth, but there is time between the rapture and christ coming down, this time is about 7 years which is the tribulation period.
In summary, prophecies usually ignore time except such time is of prophetic essence such as the 70 weeks of daniel prophecy, of which that seventy weeks is not even completed, it remains one week which is seven days, this is the seven years gap between the rapture and Christ coming down, so that at the end of the seventy weeks Christ would have come down and fulfill all the prophecies written concerning Israel.

God bless you for this.

One of my pastors ( a very good Bible scholar) once said that some events in the Bible are not recorded in chronological order.
That is why some recent events appear before old ones in the Bible getting some people confused by making them think somethings in the new testament occurred in the past; making some stories not to add up but it's just the arrangement. Though I can't remember some of the bible references he gave that day.

This rapture thing is wildly misinterpreted and misunderstood by so many according to a recent research I did.

May God help us.

@livingchrist,

How many resurrections are there in the scriptures?

Is the rapture of the dead also a resurrection?

CharisEleos:
God bless you for this.

One of my pastors ( a very good Bible scholar) once said that some events in the Bible are not recorded in chronological order.
That is why some recent events appear before old ones in the Bible getting some people confused by making them think somethings in the new testament occurred in the past; making some stories not to add up but it's just the arrangement. Though I can't remember some of the bible references he gave that day.

This rapture thing is wildly misinterpreted and misunderstood by so many according to a recent research I did.

May God help us.

yes, it takes patience, the guidance of the Holy spirit and careful study of both the old and new testament to understand biblical prophecies, just reading one or two verses or part and making conclusions base on it usually lead to errors.

OkCornel:
@livingchrist,

How many resurrections are there in the scriptures?

Is the rapture of the dead also a resurrection?

There are two resurrections, the resurrection of the righteous dead and that of the unrighteous dead.

livingchrist:
There are two resurrections, the resurrection of the righteous dead and that of the unrighteous dead.

Is the rapture also the resurrection of the righteous dead?

OkCornel:


Is the rapture also the resurrection of the righteous dead?

the first part of it.

livingchrist:
part of it.

Explain with scriptural references please.

Still wondering how the resurrection of the righteous dead is in parts

@livingchrist, I’ll clarify what I’m after;

This is the first resurrection as Apostle John saw in Revelation.

Revelation 20 v 4-6;
4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.



Is there a resurrection of the righteous dead preceding this one?

OkCornel:


Explain with scriptural references please.

Still wondering how the resurrection of the righteous dead is in parts

first of all understand that there is a difference between rapture of Christ coming down to the earth.
For rapture consider this verse
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air:[/b]and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Note that saints are to be taken up to meet with Jesus in the cosmos or air.

Compare with Jesus coming down after 7 years.

Revelation 19:8, 11, 14 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

And [b]the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Note the armies of heaven describe here are saints who have previously be clothed with white sparkling raiment which is their righteousness.

The saints are coming down with Jesus.

When they came with Jesus to earth another resurrection of the righteous which is the second part took place.

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Note this resurrection is for those that witness for Christ during the tribulation and those who did not take the mark of the beast.

The resurrection that took place before and at the beginning of the millennium make up the first resurrection.

Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

OkCornel:
@livingchrist, I’ll clarify what I’m after;

This is the first resurrection as Apostle John saw in Revelation.

Revelation 20 v 4-6;
4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.



Is there a resurrection of the righteous dead preceding this one?

The first resurrection include the rapture.

There is no secret rapture

Ask yourself who is God going to resurrect if there is a secret rapture

The rapture is an open event every one will see that the last day

Kingsnairaland:
There is no secret rapture

Ask yourself who is God going to resurrect if there is a secret rapture

The rapture is an open event every one will see that the last day

Very true

Kingsnairaland:
There is no secret rapture

Ask yourself who is God going to resurrect if there is a secret rapture

The rapture is an open event every one will see that the last day

rapture is not what all eye will see because it is going to take place in a split second in the first place.
Rather it is Jesus coming down that every eye will see.

livingchrist:

Yes it took place at the rapture

The word RAPTURE doesn't appear anywhere in the Bible but if you're talking about the taking up of Jesus' brothers (born again Christians) that will surely take place before the great tribulation.
Though the first to be taken to heaven are the born again Christians who has been sleeping in death since Jesus' departure in the first century, the rest of this born again Christians will be taken immediately after their death! 1Thessalonians 4:16

MaxInDHouse:


The word RAPTURE doesn't appear anywhere in the Bible but if you're talking about the taking up of Jesus' brothers (born again Christians) that will surely take place before the great tribulation.
Though the first to be taken to heaven are the born again Christians who has been sleeping in death since Jesus' departure in the first century, the rest of this born again Christians will be taken immediately after their death! 1Thessalonians 4:16

so? The word bible is not in the bible.
If you are not born again you cant be in the kingdom of God, there is nothing like some born again Christian and some not born again Christian in the kingdom of God.

livingchrist:
rapture is not what all eye will see because it is going to take place in a split second in the first place.
Rather it is Jesus coming down that every eye will see.

Funny show me the places in Bible that back it up

The rapture refers to the time in the future when Christ will return to the earth and take believers to heaven with Him. Many churches teach that the rapture will happen secretly, referring to it as the “secret rapture.” Books and movies portray pilots vanishing from airline cockpits and drivers disappearing from their cars, leaving us wide-eyed imagining the resulting chaos.

Will the rapture really happen secretly? What does the Bible say? Here are five Bible reasons you won’t have to worry that you’ll blink and miss it.

1. Christ will return to earth in the same way He went up—in plain view. Soon after He was resurrected, Jesus met with a large group of His followers near Jerusalem. This meeting took place out in the open, in plain view of everyone passing by. Suddenly, Jesus’ feet left the ground as He ascended to heaven. As He did, “two men stood by them in white apparel, who also said, ‘Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven’ ” (Acts 1:10, 11). The Bible even specifies that “every eye will see Him” (Revelation 1:7). Read also Matthew 24:27!

2. Christ will return with a shout, an angel voice, and God’s trumpet. The apostle Paul was quite specific in his description of the events of the rapture in 1 Thessalonians 4:16. The rapture being secret would be like sneaking up on someone while banging on pots and pans!

3. Graves all over the planet will break open at once. Paul continued his inspired picture of the rapture in 1 Thessalonians 4:16, reporting that “the dead in Christ will rise first.” These believers who have died will break out of their graves simultaneously all around the planet! How many graves would this be? Let’s put it this way: Recently, the BBC published an article titled, “The world is running out of burial space.” Brace yourself for the sound of concrete breaking up all around you!

Everyone going to heaven will go up together. After Christ breaks believers out of their graves, “We who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air” (1 Thessalonians 4:17). That means every believer will rise off the ground and meet Christ in the air together. Among this throng of people, don’t you think there will be shouts of praise and joy? Sounds like it will be hard to miss the sight and sound of it.

5. The structure of Planet Earth will begin to melt. Peter added his description of the rapture, saying that “the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat” (2 Peter 3:12). Imagine the ear-splitting spectacle of the entire sky crackling with a roaring fire and the stunning visual image of our planet’s infrastructure melting with extreme heat!

No place in the Bible that back secret coming of Jesus

People who preach rapture state that there is going to be second chance to Repent which they can Repent with there own blood but that wrong

The last day is the rapture no other chance

Bishopkingsley:


Funny show me the places in Bible that back it up

1 Thessalonians 4:16
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:



The dead will meet Jesus in the air, the heaven described here is the third heaven note the word air here means cosmos.
This is the rapture, and different from when he is actually descending to the earth from the sky.

livingchrist:

1 Thessalonians 4:16
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:



The dead will meet Jesus in the air, the heaven described here is the third heaven note the word air here means cosmos.
This is the rapture, and different from when he is actually descending to the earth from the sky.

Can you point out pretribulation rapture in Matthew 24?

1 Thessalonians 4 v 16 and Revelation 20 v 4-6 appears to be the same event which occurs after the great tribulation.

It’s either there are two resurrections or three.

The scriptures states two resurrections.

Besides, the second resurrection is strictly for those who will be judged according to their works, then their names will be searched for in the book of life.

livingchrist:

1 Thessalonians 4:16
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:



The dead will meet Jesus in the air, the heaven described here is the third heaven note the word air here means cosmos.
This is the rapture, and different from when he is actually descending to the earth from the sky.

rapturists quote Matthew 24:40, 41 out of context. Notice this entire passage:
"But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating

and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left" (Matthew 24:37-41).

Jesus is clearly drawing a parallel between the second coming and the days of Noah. Those who entered the ark in Noah's day were saved, and those who refused to enter the ark were left outside. But what were they left for? For another chance? No, obviously they were left to be destroyed by the Flood. So, says Jesus, will it be when He comes at the end of the world. One will be taken to heaven with Jesus, and the other will be left for destruction. Verse 51 makes clear what will happen to those who are left: "And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." Read Luke 17:26-37 for Luke's parallel account of these same words of Jesus. In verse 36, this statement is made: "Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left." Now notice verse 37 and the question the disciples asked: "And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord?" They wanted to know where those who didn't go to heaven were going to be left. Notice Jesus' clear answer: "And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together."

The secret rapture doctrine contradicts the words of Christ in Matthew chapter 13 when He said that the wheat and tares would grow together until the "end of the world" and then would be separated. According to the two-stage teaching of His coming, both groups would not grow together until the end of the world. The righteous would be separated from the wicked seven years before the end. And what about the promise of the resurrection? Christ said, concerning the righteous, "And I will raise him up at the last day" (John 6:40). No one denies that this means the last day of the world. Yet Paul declares that the saints are caught up to meet the Lord at the same time the dead in Christ are raised. He says, "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air" (1 Thessalonians 4:16, 17).

livingchrist:

1 Thessalonians 4:16
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:



The dead will meet Jesus in the air, the heaven described here is the third heaven note the word air here means cosmos.
This is the rapture, and different from when he is actually descending to the earth from the sky.

The dead in Christ rise first then dead without Christ will rise too you don't know that

Many dispensationalist teachers actually claim that the rapture is not really the "coming" of Jesus at all. They say His coming is when Christ returns in power seven years after the rapture. But what a contradictory, confusing explanation that is! The fact is that there are many Scriptures that admonish Christians to wait and watch for the coming of the Lord. For example, James 5:7 says, "Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord." But why should Christians need to be patient unto the coming of the Lord if there is to be a secret rapture to take them to heaven seven years before His coming?

Strange as it may seem, this whole counterfeit secret rapture is built upon a constant repetition of words and ideas that are not found in the Bible at all. But they have been repeated so often that millions have assumed that they must be soundly biblical. Let's take a look at some of the texts that have been used to support the doctrine of a two-phase coming of Christ. And please notice that none of the verses actually say what some try to read into them. In fact, it is only after a person has already assumed that Christ will return in two separate comings that these verses could even suggest the idea.

https://www.nairaland.com/6693261/there-no-secret-rapture-rapture

Bishopkingsley:
The rapture refers to the time in the future when Christ will return to the earth and take believers to heaven with Him. Many churches teach that the rapture will happen secretly, referring to it as the “secret rapture.” Books and movies portray pilots vanishing from airline cockpits and drivers disappearing from their cars, leaving us wide-eyed imagining the resulting chaos.

Will the rapture really happen secretly? What does the Bible say? Here are five Bible reasons you won’t have to worry that you’ll blink and miss it.

1. Christ will return to earth in the same way He went up—in plain view. Soon after He was resurrected, Jesus met with a large group of His followers near Jerusalem. This meeting took place out in the open, in plain view of everyone passing by. Suddenly, Jesus’ feet left the ground as He ascended to heaven. As He did, “two men stood by them in white apparel, who also said, ‘Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven’ ” (Acts 1:10, 11). The Bible even specifies that “every eye will see Him” (Revelation 1:7). Read also Matthew 24:27!

evidence of the rapture will be seen all over the world but the people raptured will not be seen.

2. Christ will return with a shout, an angel voice, and God’s trumpet. The apostle Paul was quite specific in his description of the events of the rapture in 1 Thessalonians 4:16. The rapture being secret would be like sneaking up on someone while banging on pots and pans!

yes Christ will return with a shout, it is this shout that will raise the dead in Christ and of course the rapture is not going to be secret.

. Graves all over the planet will break open at once. Paul continued his inspired picture of the rapture in 1 Thessalonians 4:16, reporting that “the dead in Christ will rise first.” These believers who have died will break out of their graves simultaneously all around the planet! How many graves would this be? Let’s put it this way: Recently, the BBC published an article titled, “The world is running out of burial space.” Brace yourself for the sound of concrete breaking up all around you!

Everyone going to heaven will go up together. After Christ breaks believers out of their graves, “We who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air” (1 Thessalonians 4:17). That means every believer will rise off the ground and meet Christ in the air together. Among this throng of people, don’t you think there will be shouts of praise and joy? Sounds like it will be hard to miss the sight and sound of it.

yes all Christians would be taken leaving the sinners, but note the rapture is going to take place in a split second there is no way people will see it but the evidence of it would be felt probably a loud thundering sound.

5. The structure of Planet Earth will begin to melt. Peter added his description of the rapture, saying that “the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat” (2 Peter 3:12). Imagine the ear-splitting spectacle of the entire sky crackling with a roaring fire and the stunning visual image of our planet’s infrastructure melting with extreme heat!

No, sir the earth neither heaven will not melt.
Christ will come seven years later and reign on earth with those Christians counted worthy to reign with him for a thousand years! It is only after this that the current heaven and earth would be destroyed leading to the final judgment.

The word "Bible" is not written in the Bible meaning it's not a teaching but name given to a collection of little books that makes up a big book, so you can't find the word anywhere in any of the little books.
Born Again means those Christians who are born of water and spirit {John 3:5} their place is not here on earth because they will be taken to the same destination along with Jesus that's why they need a special rebirth before they can go and live in heaven where only spirits lives {John 14:1-4} but the rest of mankind will live in the original place where God design for humans (flesh) to live "earth" {Psalms 37:29; 115:16} that's why Jesus spoke of two different destinations for righteous people:

"Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven" Matthew 5:3

"Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth" Matthew 5:5

Only a handful few will go and live with Jesus in heaven {Luke 12:32} while the rest numbering billions will inherit the earth!

May you have PEACE!

livingchrist:
so? The word bible is not in the bible.
If you are not born again you cant be in the kingdom of God, there is nothing like some born again Christian and some not born again Christian in the kingdom of God.

https://www.nairaland.com/6690879/end-times-rapture

I'd have made more comments on this here,but I'd rather you check the above thread

Look as nice and comforting as the pre-tribulation rapture doctrine sounds,it is not scriptural in anyway whatsoever,there's no Bible chapter or verse to actually support the doctrine
All the doctrine does is make the believer sort of comfortable, " ohh I don't need to bother myself with anything,the rapture will take us all away before everything becomes unbearable " well sorry to break your heart loves,all man go dey here when e happen

So hold on the God tighter than ever,this isn't the time to just be passive,but be active in the things of the kingdom,hunger to know the mysteries of the kingdom,hunger for intimacy with our Heavenly Father ,that's the only way we'll be safe from what is to befall the Earth

livingchrist:
Yes there will be a resurrection that will occur, the reason why many do not understand the pretribulation rapture is time, they cannot accept that sometimes in prophecies time is ignored. What do I mean? In the old testament the prophecies concerning Christ first and second coming is spoken as if they will happen at the same time, but actually the two events were separated by thousands of years.

Same with the resurrection

Daniel 12:2
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

The resurrection is spoken as if the resurrection of the righteous and the unrighteous will take place at the same time but actually the both resurrection has a time gap between them.
Same with the prophecies of Jesus
John 5:28-29 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Again Jesus spoke as if the resurrection would take place at the same time but they are separated by atleast 1000 years.

First is the resurrection of the righteous which begins at the rapture, and comes to consummation when Jesus comes down to earth, after then the millennium reign of Christ followed by the second resurrection and then the judgment.

I personally I don not separate the rapture from the second coming of Christ only it takes place in stages, first is the rapture and then Christ comes down to the earth, but there is time between the rapture and christ coming down, this time is about 7 years which is the tribulation period.
In summary, prophecies usually ignore time except such time is of prophetic essence such as the 70 weeks of daniel prophecy, of which that seventy weeks is not even completed, it remains one week which is seven days, this is the seven years gap between the rapture and Christ coming down, so that at the end of the seventy weeks Christ would have come down and fulfill all the prophecies written concerning Israel.

Hello livingchrist.

I think I see what you are saying, but I don't agree with you.

Do prophecies ignore time? I wouldn't say that exactly although I will admit that there is something that does require an explanation in the attention that prophecies paid to time. Your example about the first and second coming of the Christ is one big reason for this. It is true that Old Testament prophecies did not distinguish them all that well. The device is called prophetic foreshortening. In the Bible, the effect it produces is that two events look like they are immediately following each other or might even be the same.

The reason for this is NOT that prophecy ignores time. I can't agree with you on that. Rather, the reason is that God was providing only the information that He wanted believers to have at that time. So, He kept the two-thousand-year Church Age that was going to intervene between the two Advents a secret or, as it is more commonly called, a mystery to believers until Jesus came and died for us.

This prophetic foreshortening was then only used to keep believers of that time focused on what mattered the most to them: the coming of the Savior to die for their sins and the eventual redemption of their bodies and the broken world as a result. The Church Age was not to distract them from that hope.

The question arises for you then: why does prophecy ignore time if it does according to you? Do you have any biblical argument to answer that?

The other example you give of Jesus's prophecies about the resurrection is also unacceptable to me. You say that Jesus spoke of them as though they would be happening at the same time, but that they would actually not be. I don't agree with you. From Matthew 25:31-46, there is no confusion. There is a judgment of the righteous and unrighteous that will happen at exactly the same time. This will be preceded by a resurrection of both obviously. So, you are wrong at least to some extent. Then again, Paul says the following:

21 For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.
1 Corinthians 15:21-24 (NIV)

That is, the resurrection will occur in tranches, as you rightly suggested, but there is a resurrection of the righteous that will happen at "the end" as v. 24 above shows. That resurrection is the "gathering of the nations" that precedes the judgment in Matthew 25 referenced above. In Revelation 20:12-15, the judgment being described there is the one of the "goats" spoken of in Matthew 25. They are in view because the immediate context is about the war and victory of Christ over Satan at last. Because of what else we know from these other passages mentioned here and from elsewhere, we know that the Millennial believers were judged just before the unbelievers of all ages were judged.

So, while you do have a point about how the resurrection is spaced out, I don't think your example is appropriate for your argument. The Lord Jesus's words could be taken literally and they would still be true. Even if they were not immediately referencing a time-gap, we still know that that is not the right way to judge the matter of the Tribulation and the resurrection of the Church.

Before we discuss what the Bible does, in fact, say about the Tribulation and the Resurrection, I also wonder what biblical evidence you have for your claim that there is a seven-year gap between the rapture and the Second Coming. And I assume that by "rapture" you mean the resurrection of the Church-Age believers, that is, all believers from Adam and Eve until the last one to believe before the return of Jesus Christ. If you mean something else, please explain.

As to what the Bible says, there are so many passages that teach that the resurrection of the Church will occur at the Second Coming that I doubt that presenting them will be an effective argument. So I prefer instead to have you provide what evidence you believe you have and solve the problems associated with your position as you present it.

MaxInDHouse:
The word "Bible" is not written in the Bible meaning it's not a teaching but name given to a collection of little books that makes up a big book, so you can't find the word anywhere in any of the little books.
Born Again means those Christians who are born of water and spirit {John 3:5} their place is not here on earth because they will be taken to the same destination along with Jesus that's why they need a special rebirth before they can go and live in heaven where only spirits lives {John 14:1-4} but the rest of mankind will live in the original place where God design for humans (flesh) to live "earth" {Psalms 37:29; 115:16} that's why Jesus spoke of two different destinations for righteous people:

"Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven" Matthew 5:3

"Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth" Matthew 5:5

Only a handful few will go and live with Jesus in heaven {Luke 12:32} while the rest numbering billions will inherit the earth!

May you have PEACE!

Anyone not born again cannot be in God's kingdom, they will be thrown out into the lake of fire.
Without means those not in God's kingdom.

Revelation 22:15
For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

So without you are born again you are outside the kingdom of God.

Ihedinobi3:


Hello livingchrist.

I think I see what you are saying, but I don't agree with you.

Do prophecies ignore time? I wouldn't say that exactly although I will admit that there is something that does require an explanation in the attention that prophecies paid to time. Your example about the first and second coming of the Christ is one big reason for this. It is true that Old Testament prophecies did not distinguish them all that well. The device is called prophetic foreshortening. In the Bible, the effect it produces is that two events look like they are immediately following each other or might even be the same.

The reason for this is NOT that prophecy ignores time. I can't agree with you on that. Rather, the reason is that God was providing only the information that He wanted believers to have at that time. So, He kept the two-thousand-year Church Age that was going to intervene between the two Advents a secret or, as it is more commonly called, a mystery to believers until Jesus came and died for us.

You have reinstated what I just said, and besides I said prophecy usually ignores time not everytime.
The over two thousand year church age prophecy was kept from the prophets, you reemphasized what I was saying.

This prophetic foreshortening was then only used to keep believers of that time focused on what mattered the most to them: the coming of the Savior to die for their sins and the eventual redemption of their bodies and the broken world as a result. The Church Age was not to distract them from that hope.

The question arises for you then: why does prophecy ignore time if it does according to you? Do you have any biblical argument to answer that?

I said prophecy ignores time that is not prophetically relevant. I have given you an example, the time duration between the first and second coming of Christ was ignored because of the reason you stated another one is the resurrection, there was no mention of the events that would take place between the first and second resurrection hence one might think they take place at the same time.

The other example you give of Jesus's prophecies about the resurrection is also unacceptable to me. You say that Jesus spoke of them as though they would be happening at the same time, but that they would actually not be. I don't agree with you. From Matthew 25:31-46, there is no confusion. There is a judgment of the righteous and unrighteous that will happen at exactly the same time. This will be preceded by a resurrection of both obviously. So, you are wrong at least to some extent. Then again, Paul says the following:

21 For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.
1 Corinthians 15:21-24 (NIV)

that is, the resurrection will occur in tranches, as you rightly suggested, but there is a resurrection of the righteous that will happen at "the end" as v. 24 above shows. That resurrection is the "gathering of the nations" that precedes the judgment in Matthew 25 referenced above. In Revelation 20:12-15, the judgment being described there is the one of the "goats" spoken of in Matthew 25. They are in view because the immediate context is about the war and victory of Christ over Satan at last. Because of what else we know from these other passages mentioned here and from elsewhere, we know that the Millennial believers were judged just before the unbelievers of all ages were judged.

@ bold that is what op said, now christ didnt mention that the resurrection is going to take place in tranches, what does that tell us? That revelation is progressive. The revelations of apostle paul was concerning the gentiles church not the nation of Israel hence paul spoke of the events of the end time that will affect the Gentile churches. The 7 years of tribulation was not mentioned by paul, so he spoke as if the rapture only, which of cause is also the coming of christ.

, while you do have a point about how the resurrection is spaced out, I don't think your example is appropriate for your argument. The Lord Jesus's words could be taken literally and they would still be true. Even if they were not immediately referencing a time-gap, we still know that that is not the right way to judge the matter of the Tribulation and the resurrection of the Church.

yes my arguement for pretribulation rapture is very valid, the time gap gives credence to the pretribulation rapture. Look at what I am saying.
1The Lord descend into the cosmos from the heaven [third heaven] ------》2the rapture takes place------》3|7 years of israel's tribulation|-----》4-----the Lord judges the enemies of Israel and comes down to reinstablish the kingdom of Israel.
From here you see that Paul's focus was on the gentile church which is, 1 &2, 3&4 does not concern the gentile church but Israel.

yes it would still be true,

Before we discuss what the Bible does, in fact, say about the Tribulation and the Resurrection, I also wonder what biblical evidence you have for your claim that there is a seven-year gap between the rapture and the Second Coming. And I assume that by "rapture" you mean the resurrection of the Church-Age believers, that is, all believers from Adam and Eve until the last one to believe before the return of Jesus Christ. If you mean something else, please explain.

As to what the Bible says, there are so many passages that teach that the resurrection of the Church will occur at the Second Coming that I doubt that presenting them will be an effective argument. So I prefer instead to have you provide what evidence you believe you have and solve the problems associated with your position as you present it.

the rapture is only for those believers who died in Christ meaning all those who physically recieve Christ as the Lord and saviour during the earthly life.
You dont understand the 7 year gap because you dont understand that Israel and the gentiles actually have a different prophetic calender.
Presently God suspended the Israel programme and only allow the gentile church time is ticking very soon God will conclude the gentile church programme and resume the one for Israel.
You have to understand that in the old testament Israel was the one through which God uses to reach out to the whole world but in the new testament when Israel fell away the gentile church replaced Israel, but the gentile church will be removed via the rapture to enable the restoration of Israel and fulfilling their election.

The seven year gap is from the book of Daniel, the 70th week will restore Israel once again and will mark the return of their messiah with this God would have fulfilled is promise to the patriachs, and the prophecy of the prophets.