lexy2014:


how did u arrive at d conclusion that "dont want to pay tax on anything"? pls what is d meaning of indirect tax? what do u mean by "realistic taxes"? u are comparing nigeria with developed countires and u say they live by taxes. before u carry iut that comparison, pls compare governance in developed countries and nigeria. is there any difference? how are taxes used in developed countries and how are they used here in nigeria? any difference?

How did developed countries reach that pinnacle if only few carry the burden of running and financing the country while majority have no responsibility and can freely pocket their income while demanding the whole world from the taxes of a few?

Nigeria can make 5 times the revenue from oil if taxation system is taken seriously. There's no country doing better than us with our type of low revenue.

CodeTemplar:
It is now clear this govf erroneously believes taxing the perceived middle class to share to the alleged poorest of the poorest is a viable economic policy. It is catastrophic. Like Prof. Jega rightly noted, we are cursed with vision less leaders.

That is the essence of taxation to redistribute wealth and reduce inequality.
A person due to pay $100m annual tax won't use all that to send his children to school. But $100m might be enough to finance quality education for 1m poor kids.

Once the bigman pockets his tax, you might automatically have 1m kids added to the out of school numbers and have a ready Army to join kidnap gangs, militants and Boko Haram.

Ovamboland:


That is the essence of taxation to redistribute wealth and reduce inequality.
A person due to pay $100m annual tax won't use all that to send his children to school. But $100m might be enough to finance quality education for 1m poor kids.

Once the big pockets his tax, you might automatically have 1m kids to the out of school numbers and have a ready Army to join kidnap gangs, militants and Boko Haram.

Redistribution of wealth to bridge gap is a witchcraft logic.

Ovamboland:



There are still people in Nigeria who don't follow the herd just because that's the general mentality and popular opinion? There's still hope for Nigeria.

There's lot's of hope, because it really takes just a few of us. We just need to organise.

https://www.nairaland.com/6431743/nairaland-democratic-party

okuwehcris:


When it comes to paying high you people refers to develop countries, how about giving us the basic amenities in the developed nations. Bad road, no steady electricity, no water, no fuel production in the country etc. You won't refer or say go to develop countries....the good thing about it is that you are not exempted from the high cost of living

What Will be used provide and maintain the amenities? Is it leaves?
You think we are going anywhere if smaller African countries are spending $150bn or $100bn a year and we think they won't leave us behind when we are still saying our $30bn is enough or too much. Aww

CodeTemplar:

Redistribution of wealth to bridge gap is a witchcraft logic.

If you're thinking of robbing peter to pay paul, I agree.

So how about robbing peter and paul to bridge the gap by funding schools, healthcare, roads, police, removal of dead bodies from the street?

After all both peter and paul would benefit from not having dead bodies stinking up their neighbourhood, and having educated healthy people around you is bound to increase the general harmony in your society, don't you think?

The good thing is healthy educated people pay even more tax, so we might even be able to decrease peter's tax when paul pays a fare share.

Ovamboland:


Nigeria tax 6% of GDP, Ghana 16%, Egypt 25%, South Africa 29%.

You can see the relationship in economic advancement with increased tax collection rate, you're free to cling to your poverty club and bring leaders that will cancel taxation and keep you tied forever in the poverty club

Okay. Minimum wage is 30k, states are struggling to pay it and income tax should be increased to 20% according to your bullshitting so that the populace will start eating grass because they virtually can't buy anything. I'm very tempted to call you mumu now.

As you quote the tax rates in these countries, do well to quote their min wage, health insurance and other benefits, then draw a comparison.

I'm even 100% sure you don't have and don't intend to get a health insurance plan and nobody in ur family has health insurance.

Why because whatever it is u earn is not enough to feed u properly.

Then somehow somehow, surrounded by all these miseries, u think income tax should be increased so the little u earn will be taken away from u. I don't know how else to define stupidity.

Ovamboland:


How did developed countries reach that pinnacle if only few carry the burden of running and financing the country while majority have no responsibility and can freely pocket their income while demanding the whole world from the taxes of a few?

Nigeria can make 5 times the revenue from oil if taxation system is taken seriously. There's no country doing better than us with our type of low revenue.

u havent my questions:

how did u arrive at d conclusion that nigerians "dont want to pay tax on anything"? pls what is d meaning of indirect tax? what do u mean by "realistic taxes"? u are comparing nigeria with developed countires and u say they live by taxes. before u carry iut that comparison, pls compare governance in developed countries and nigeria. is there any difference? how are taxes used in developed countries and how are they used here in nigeria? any difference?

Collinsanele:


They live by taxes, yes!
But tell me how their standard of living and their economy is.
Tell me how their employment stats is.
Can you compare their social amenities with ours.
Can you compare their life expectancy with ours.
I don't mean to sound abrasive but please think.
You may not be affected but many are dying due to economic hardship.
Ideas not money liberate a nation - Philip Emagwali

If you research did those countries start off with high life expectancy, perfect amenities and infrastructure, full employment before they realise they should start collecting taxes?

Or did taxation form a pillar of their economic system that eventually birthed a developed society?

What are those opposed to widened tax net and a country run with taxes instead of unstable commodities asking for in essence? Economic up and down tracking oil prices?

proclinician:


Okay. Minimum wage is 30k, states are struggling to pay it ...

There's your problem right there! Imagine you working for some state that pays you a mere ₦30k! And I bet its not even monthly since they can't afford it! Are you really worth only so little?

Then look at the work you actually do for this ₦30k! In my own Orolu Local Government I see them everyday doing nothing except cutting ₦50 ticket on market day which is every 5 days, in the name of internal generated revenue!

Now, imagine gas is produced in Nigeria. You'd need competent staff to suck it out the ground and they would not accept a poxy ₦30k! In fact, we currently hire such people from India. They work for like 3 months then get free flight home for a month then return to work, so you imagine how much they get paid.

You'd need gas transporters. And by transport I mean from source to where it gets used, and in some houses in some countries, that's not in a cylinder but through pipes from where the gas is sucked into a big central reservoir then into your individual home like electricity is distributed and as water ought to be. Can you imagine how many workers that would take, and the wages that would need to be paid for such competence, plus the many servicing each home, and even how much more cheaper the gas itself would become?

Government pays, rather, promises you ₦30k to keep you quiet! It's slave wage at best, and those who are not slaves would go seek employment where work is actually done and appreciated and paid for!

budaatum:


You are most highly appreciated! If I could, I'd pay you, but a wise person like you would likely not need me to.

Thank you very much for your wisdom.

There's no need to expect payment for saying the truth, only liars and deceivers expect payment to share their opinion on public affairs.

It's also normal for ordinary people to shout when feeling pain and laugh when enjoying.
Some pain lead to long term well being and some enjoyment lead to doom.

It takes extraordinary people to spot the difference.

Thanks for not allowing the voice of ordinary people to drown your wisdom.

Ovamboland:


There's no need to expect payment for saying the truth, only liars and deceivers expect payment to share their opinion on public affairs.

It's also normal for ordinary people to shout when feeling pain and laugh when enjoying.
Some pain lead to long term well being and some enjoyment lead to doom.

It takes extraordinary people to spot the difference.

Thanks for not allowing the voice of ordinary people to drown your wisdom.

I did say,"likely not need", and can tell by your wise fruits, lol!

Trust when I say, the darkness of ignorance shall never ever overcome till I breath my last breathe, and even then I intend to find a way to be heard from my grave.

budaatum:


There's your problem right there! Imagine you working for some state that pays you a mere ₦30k! And I bet its not even monthly since they can't afford it! Are you really worth only so little?

Then look at the work you actually do for this ₦30k! In my own Orolu Local Government I see them everyday doing nothing except cutting ₦50 ticket on market day which is every 5 days, in the name of internal generated revenue!

Now, imagine gas is produced in Nigeria. You'd need competent staff to suck it out the ground and they would not accept a poxy ₦30k! In fact, we currently hire such people from India. They work for like 3 months then get free flight home for a month then return to work, so you imagine how much they get paid.

You'd need gas transporters. And by transport I mean from source to where it gets used, and in some houses in some countries, that's not in a cylinder but through pipes from where the gas is sucked into a big central reservoir then into your individual home like electricity is distributed and as water ought to be. Can you imagine how many workers that would take, and the wages that would need to be paid for such competence, plus the many servicing each home, and even how much more cheaper the gas itself would become?

Government pays, rather, promises you ₦30k to keep you quiet! It's slave wage at best, and those who are not slaves would go seek employment where work is actually done and appreciated and paid for!

I said the minimum wage in the Nigerian public sector is #30k a month. Do you know or you dont know? Now are you saying that when you increase income tax from 6% to say 18% the minimum wage will now increase? With all the increase in VAT how has it affected the minimum wage? If you say increase from 18k to 30 I will agree.

The problem of Nigeria today is not low tax. Before you even start talking about tax u put put in place accountability systems so that every 1% is accounted for. We all pay 6%, let's see how much it can do, the 6% does even nothing. I work in a federal university teaching hospital and only one in every 10 folders I see a day is on health insurance. The remaining are just wallowing in abject poverty and misery despite paying 6% of whatever they earn to a worthless govt not to talk of VAT. You deposit money in ur bank account and u pay VAT. Then u withdraw same money and pay another VAT.

CodeTemplar:

Redistribution of wealth to bridge gap is a witchcraft logic.

Where do you think USA gets it's $4 trillion revenue that enables it put annually $700bn in healthcare our gross national budget for 25 years or another $700bn in public education?
You think it's only the rich who access the schools and healthcare provided?
Where do you think social security checks come from if not from taxation on workers and business people's income.

Are these the people we want to compete with using low revenue due to taxation net?

proclinician:


Okay. Minimum wage is 30k, states are struggling to pay it and income tax should be increased to 20% according to your bullshitting so that the populace will start eating grass because they virtually can't buy anything. I'm very tempted to call you mumu now.

As you quote the tax rates in these countries, do well to quote their min wage, health insurance and other benefits, then draw a comparison.

I'm even 100% sure you don't have and don't intend to get a health insurance plan and nobody in ur family has health insurance.

Why because whatever it is u earn is not enough to feed u properly.

Then somehow somehow, surrounded by all these miseries, u think income tax should be increased so the little u earn will be taken away from u. I don't know how else to define stupidity.

Striving to get knowledge leads to wisdom and understanding is great gain.

Tax to GDP ratio is not tax rate. It speaks more to the efficiency of your taxation system and gauges how much scope you have for improvement.

proclinician:


I said the minimum wage in the Nigerian public sector is #30k a month. Do you know or you dont know? Now are you saying that when you increase income tax from 6% to say 18% the minimum wage will now increase? With all the increase in VAT how has it affected the minimum wage? If you say increase from 18k to 30 I will agree.

The problem of Nigeria today is not low tax. Before you even start talking about tax u put put in place accountability systems so that every 1% is accounted for. We all pay 6%, let's see how much it can do, the 6% does even nothing. I work in a federal university teaching hospital and only one in every 10 folders I see a day is on health insurance. The remaining are just wallowing in abject poverty and misery despite paying 6% of whatever they earn to a worthless govt not to talk of VAT. You deposit money in ur bank account and u pay VAT. Then u withdraw same money and pay another VAT.

You are putting your cart before your horse.

Its the people who do the accounting, and they account out of interest. And if I tax your ₦30k by say 50% (18% my ass!) I'm very certain you will order me to account for it, or would you not? I bet you'd even ask your employer to pay you more than the poxy ₦30k they currently pay you, because, in my own opinion, you do deserve to be paid more than slave wage, if you yourself are worth more that is.

I'm thinking you should be worth at least ₦60k, though that's still very little and far beneath your worth. But if I tax you 50% of 60k, you'd still take home more than you currently do after tax, see?

You seriously got to learn to fight for your rights instead of expecting to be given them out of the kindness of my heart!

budaatum:


You are putting your cart before your horse.

Its the people who do the accounting, and they account out of interest. And if I tax your ₦30k by say 50% (18% my ass!) I'm very certain you will order me to account for it, or would you not? I bet you'd even ask your employer to pay you more that the poxy ₦30k they currently pay you, because, in my own opinion, you do deserve to be paid more than slave wage, if you yourself are worth more that is.

I'm thinking you should be worth at least ₦60k, though that's still very little and far beneath your worth. But if I tax you 50% of 60k, you'd still take home more than you currently do after tax, see?

You seriously got to learn to fight for your rights instead of expecting to be given them out of the kindness of my heart!

Ok bye

lexy2014:


u havent my questions:

how did u arrive at d conclusion that nigerians "dont want to pay tax on anything"? pls what is d meaning of indirect tax? what do u mean by "realistic taxes"? u are comparing nigeria with developed countires and u say they live by taxes. before u carry iut that comparison, pls compare governance in developed countries and nigeria. is there any difference? how are taxes used in developed countries and how are they used here in nigeria? any difference?

In the past 50 years in Nigeria what percentage of our public income came from the various taxation and which percentage came from natural resource in our case oil.
Let's stop pretending like in the last 50 years there was a time since oil revenue came that the various governments we have were run with income taxes.

I strongly believe one of the reasons for prevalent corruption in government is because the bulk of govt revenue is not coming from people's income, otherwise we won't tolerate or celebrate politicians and civil servants who had successful heist. Most see govt funds as nobody's money hence the intense competition to be in charge of it's distribution.

It's a blessing in disguise that oil money on its own can no longer run govt successfully and adequately. As we depend more on income tax, sales tax and subsidies are done away with we will start looking more at plans and character of politicians than their ethnic origin and religion.

Nah to go do biodigester remain ooo.
May we not see another regime like this one sha. Welfare of the populace doesn't concern them at all. With the inflation and other economic hardships around, they're not looking for ways to improve anything, only just making things worse.

Ovamboland:


In the past 50 years in Nigeria what percentage of our public income came from the various taxation and which percentage came from natural resource in our case oil.
Let's stop pretending like in the last 50 years there was a time since oil revenue came that the various governments we have were run with income taxes.

I strongly believe one of the reasons for prevalent corruption in government is because the bulk of govt revenue is not coming from people's income, otherwise we won't tolerate or celebrate politicians and civil servants who had successful heist. Most see govt funds as nobody's money hence the intense competition to be in charge of it's distribution.

It's a blessing in disguise that oil money on its own can no longer run govt successfully and adequately. As we depend more on income tax, sales tax and subsidies are done away with we will start looking more at plans and character of politicians than their ethnic origin and religion.

U still haven't d questions below:

1. how did u arrive at d conclusion that nigerians "dont want to pay tax on anything"?

2. pls what is d meaning of indirect tax? what do u mean by "realistic taxes"?

3. u are comparing nigeria with developed countires and u say they live by taxes. before u carry iut that comparison, pls compare governance in developed countries and nigeria. is there any difference?

4. how are taxes used in developed countries and how are they used here in nigeria? any difference?

proclinician:


I said the minimum wage in the Nigerian public sector is #30k a month. Do you know or you dont know? Now are you saying that when you increase income tax from 6% to say 18% the minimum wage will now increase? With all the increase in VAT how has it affected the minimum wage? If you say increase from 18k to 30 I will agree.

The problem of Nigeria today is not low tax. Before you even start talking about tax u put put in place accountability systems so that every 1% is accounted for. We all pay 6%, let's see how much it can do, the 6% does even nothing. I work in a federal university teaching hospital and only one in every 10 folders I see a day is on health insurance. The remaining are just wallowing in abject poverty and misery despite paying 6% of whatever they earn to a worthless govt not to talk of VAT. You deposit money in ur bank account and u pay VAT. Then u withdraw same money and pay another VAT.

Nobody is even saying the current tax rate should be increased. The highest top rate is 30% after deduction of personal allowance and other minor allowances. Top absolute rate is gross of 21% and only applicable to the 13% of Nigerian workers registered for tax in the first instance.

87% other's are parasitic on the 13% diligently paying.
It's the aggregate of these PAYE and VAT and excise duty etc that aggregate to 6% of GDP. It doesn't mean every worker is paying 6% of their income as tax.

That's why it's best to get knowledge rather than conflate issues.

Tax to GDP ratio of 6% is the level many poor countries, conflict ridden areas congregate and it's a surprise violence has not started earlier than now. Maybe our economic structure informed the prediction of implosion by 2015.

Most advanced countries are from 25-40% tax to GDP ratio. Many fast growing sub-saharan African countries are at 14-18% ratio. But some are still asking us to stay at 6% club waiting for what I don't know.

Many don't realise you can't be bothered with accountability if you're not a stakeholder. How can a person evading tax stand his ground before a civil servant or immigration officer asking for bribe? You see govt office as not your own since your money is not been used to set up and run the place.

If anyone mentions the bullcrap about Nigerians not paying enough taxes I'll give you e-smackdown just now.

Just take at look at various leakages, avenues that government has refused to utilize, they'll always want to take the easy way out and pile most of the burden on the masses because they know majority are docile.

Just last month a report was published about the amount of money Lagos state forfeits to all these transport touts. Go round the 36 states and the FCT, we'll discover equally huge sums of money are being lost that way.

Go to the states, majority of not all have outrageous pension schemes for former governors and their lawmakers that civil servants who put in decades of labour can't dream of.

Let's move to uniformed personnels collecting their own taxes. We really need to set down and analyse the ripple effects of these. Transporters will factor it into the amount they charge for their fares, traders also factory it into the cost price of their wares, this drives up prices of their goods, the common man would now have to end up paying higher prices for goods he purchases.

These are just a few leakages, a serious government will try to tackle this before just jumping and introducing all kinds of taxes.

You didn't know the standard of living in those countries are better?

Ovamboland:


Is standard of living in Ghana, Niger, Benin, Liberia etc better than Nigeria where they pay 400 naira equivalent for fuel and probably higher prices for cooking gas? If imported gas cost 1000 the VAT on it is 75 naira. Is the current increase just about 75 naira?

If you paid 4000 before and now there is VAT you pay 4,300 is that why markets sell for 5500 or 6000 for 12.5kg?
If govt withdraw VAT at best you pay 5,600 instead of 6000

misterjosh:
If anyone mentions the bullcrap about Nigerians not paying enough taxes I'll give you e-smackdown just now.

Just take at look at various leakages, avenues that government has refused to utilize, they'll always want to take the easy way out and pile most of the burden on the masses because they know majority are docile.

Just last month a report was published about the amount of money Lagos state forfeits to all these transport touts. Go round the 36 states and the FCT, we'll discover equally huge sums of money are being lost that way.

Go to the states, majority of not all have outrageous pension schemes for former governors and their lawmakers that civil servants who put in decades of labour can't dream of.

Let's move to uniformed personnels collecting their own taxes. We really need to set down and analyse the ripple effects of these. Transporters will factor it into the amount they charge for their fares, traders also factory it into the cost price of their wares, this drives up prices of their goods, the common man would now have to end up paying higher prices for goods he purchases.

These are just a few leakages, a serious government will try to tackle this before just jumping and introducing all kinds of taxes.

Read through the thread, enough information has been given to address your question. Extortion money and bribe or robbery loss is not tax and won't show up in tax to GDP ratio as they easily end up in private pockets
The point is as tax systems get formalized and widened the propensity to pay bribes and extortion usually for illegal access will reduce.

This is true no matter who is running the country whether it is Saint Peter or Obama, we can do little without collecting taxes and plugging those leakages such as the ones you highlighted.

Torture2020:
You didn't know the standard of living in those countries are better?

I have been to some of those countries and they envy us in a lot of things. Got a friend who works in Ghana come over wondering what we're complaining about when almost everything in Ghana is twice as expensive as in Nigeria.

Oh please! by the way, your friend who works in Ghana is lucky. He can sleep with his two eyes closed, not fearing being kidnapped for ransom. He has electricity most of the time. he is assured that life expectancy will be higher than if he had lived in Nigeria. His children will go to school for free in Ghana, and will be provided with free food, free tuition and free uniforms

By the way, if your friend is complaining that prices in Ghana are twice expensive, then what exactly is he still doing in Ghana. what exactly is stopping him from going to Nigeria to live?

By the time buhari eases current petrol subsidies and jacks up vat rates and all the things including higher water and electricity rates, come back and lets talk about costs of living. By the way, how many countries have you lived in apart from Nigeria? Have you been to Norway? Norway is extremely rich but also very very outrageously expensive.

The difference is clear. Things are cheaper in Nigeria, yet there is widespread poverty. how do you explain that?

By the way, why will anybody in Ghana envy anyone in Nigeria? Is that a joke?

Ovamboland:


I have been to some of those countries and they envy us in a lot of things. Got a friend who works in Ghana come over wondering what we're complaining about when almost everything in Ghana is twice as expensive as in Nigeria.

iLegendd:


We want to pay tax, but there is no transparency in how the money is being spent.

If you can't trust your leaders with all the free trillions from oil, how can you trust them with money from tax? A country without a functional law shouldn't ask for tax.

If you squander the school fees your dad gave you on women, there is a high chance you'll spend the ones your mom added as extra you on drinks.

You still get time for the mumu.Why is buhari still operating 7 jet?Yet he wants every Nigerian to tax!

faithfull18:

Nigerians already provide everything for themselves.

Portharcourt does not have public water system,imagine Nigeria without private borehole system!

Minjim:

Some of us have already paid the taxes. I pay tax monthly and also pay VAT.
Now, what have they done with those taxes?
You have to show us what you've done if you want us to pay more

Buhari use it to maintain his 10 presidential jet!

Ovamboland:


Read through the thread, enough information has been given to address your question. Extortion money and bribe or robbery loss is not tax and won't show up in tax to GDP ratio as they easily end up in private pockets
The point is as tax systems get formalized and widened the propensity to pay bribes and extortion usually for illegal access will reduce.

This is true no matter who is running the country whether it is Saint Peter or Obama, we can do little without collecting taxes and plugging those leakages such as the ones you highlighted.

I'm okay with existing tax policies being implemented, but not introducing new ones under different guises. The government should carry out sensitization when needed, and also prosecute likewise.
What we have seen with this administration is, complain that revenue streams are drying up, next thing is they're look for ways to squeeze the citizenry some more.
They also have their own part to play.

Beancounter94:


1.Well we don't pay 46-51% tax. More like 0-24%..plus if you earn below a certain income you pay nothing.

2.It may be a good idea...may make most people start paying attention to our government , and them politicans. May also reduce our dependence on borrowing.

Plus there are only so many people that can be killed.

Besides, developed countries got developed because people were ready, sometimes at the cost of their lives, to work for better governance.

All these cannot happen in Nigeria because patriotism is dead if it. ever existed,the solution is breaking up the country so that the. nation can start. nation building afresh .

budaatum:


All these ideas you mention, including a reduction in dying, were bought with tax!

Read below how a certain country taxed the windows in homes!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Window_tax#%3A%7E%3Atext%3DWindow_tax_was_a_property%2Cof_windows_in_a_house.%26text%3DTo_avoid_the_tax%2C_some%2C155_years_later%2C_in_1851.?wprov=sfla1

With all the taxation in Nigeria, can you see any improvement.
Even with all the borrowings/loans, are things really getting better.
I initially thought the govt was sincerely fighting insecurity, but why make a former Coas an ambassador even with his lack lustre performance.
Why is the govt turning a deaf ear to some killer fulani herdsmen that are kidnapping, killing and maiming people.
What about the obvious violation of human rights in Nigeria.
I understand your point, but let's be factual and tell ourselves the truth without attaching any sentiment whatsoever.
Nevertheless, Nigeria would be great again.