Kobojunkie:
All you have done here is state your personal ideas and attempted to question me on them. I don't exist in your mind to understand how you have chosen to process these things for yourself in order to properly answer you without failing your particular delusion.

And mind you, this topic is not about you but about the Christian belief... so?

What is the delusion?

HellVictorinho:
Nobody chooses to believe anything
What are the delusions I have

Especially were belief is concerned, choices are made, moment by moment choice... humans are built that way.

HellVictorinho:
What is the delusion?

Your chosen belief is your delusion.

Barristter07:


The Bible said Animals have the same spirit. Will you change the meaning now ?






So spirit is the real person, that means the real Jesus didn't die for anyone. Na ordinary flesh die. Do you see you are preaching something from the devil ?

The spirit is the real person... the body just houses the spirit.. when a person dies they leave their body and go to their eternal home...

Kobojunkie:
How did you reach the conclusion that I am not certain what a spirit is?

Your consciousness is not spirit... it is just that, you consciousness. And what you said about existing separately, I don't follow at all.

Ecc 12:7 Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, And the spirit will return to God who gave it.

What is the correct interpretation of this verse? Doesn't it make it clear that a man is a spirit who lives in a body?

Please enlighten me

LordReed:


Why do you like twisting the tale just make yourself look good? I did not invite you to that thread it was someone else nor have you silenced me, I am just bored with your bullcrap stories.

Lol... that's Jehovah's witnesses for you!

Kobojunkie:
the Self or ego

Can you show me 5 scriptures to validate this claim of yours?

Hismasterpiece:


The spirit is the real person ... the body just houses the spirit.. when a person dies they leave their body and go to their eternal home...

In short the person called Jesus didn't die for anybody. Correct ?

Hismasterpiece:


Ignore Kobojunkie... he's faarrr worse than MaxInDHouse.... he's heresies are on a faaaarrr higher level than the jw dude...

Rather than be honest like me and say they don't completely understand a subject matter when they infact do not, they just share their heretical viewpoints and mislead ignorant people...

They are blind leaders of the blind so pay no attention to them

I actually like Kobojunkie, their take on things is rather unconventional and I like to see where their thoughts go when discussing.

LordReed:


I actually like Kobojunkie, their take on things is rather unconventional and I like to see where their thoughts go when discussing.

If you say so

Hismasterpiece:


If you say so

I do. I like you too, you are respectful and humble.

Barristter07:


In short the person called Jesus didn't die for anybody. Correct ?

You really don't understand me do you? You are a spirit living in a body. Your body is only relevant in this physical world. Once you die you leave your body and go to your eternal home.

Jesus did die for all of us. But didn't Jesus say,'father into your hands i commit my spirit'? What do you think He meant by that statement?

LordReed:


I do. I like you too, you are respectful and humble.

Gracias.

P.S You ask too many questions

Hismasterpiece:


Gracias.

P.S You ask too many questions

LoL. I guess that’s true.

LordReed:


LoL. I guess that’s true.

I'm aware that you were once a Christian. What made you change your mind about the faith, pray tell?

Hismasterpiece:


I'm aware that you were once a Christian. What made you change your mind about the faith, pray tell?

I asked questions LoL!

To be precise I asked myself if i wasn't a believer and was told this world was the work of a benevolent god being would I believe it? And I knew I could not honestly answer yes to that question.

Kobojunkie:
Especially were belief is concerned, choices are made, moment by moment choice... humans are built that way.

I don't agree


Beliefs are accidental occurrences

Kobojunkie:
Your chosen belief is your delusion.

I have no chosen belief

LordReed:


I asked questions LoL!

To be precise I asked myself if i wasn't a believer and was told this world was the work of a benevolent god being would I believe it? And I knew I could not honestly answer yes to that question.

So you stopped believing that God is Good?

Hismasterpiece:


So you stopped believing that God is Good?

I stopped believing in the only god I thought existed, a benevolent, all powerful, all knowing, always present god. As I went along exploring more, I saw that it extended to the entire concept of theism. I still do hold out for the possibility that gods exist since the universe is vaster than we know however I don't think any concept of god humans currently have matches realty.

Hismasterpiece:


You really don't understand me do you? You are a spirit living in a body. Your body is only relevant in this physical world. Once you die you leave your body and go to your eternal home.

Jesus did die for all of us. But didn't Jesus say,'father into your hands i commit my spirit'? What do you think He meant by that statement?

How did Jesus die when the real person don't die ?

Are you confused ?

Is it Jesus that died or ordinary body that house him ?

HellVictorinho:

I don't agree
Beliefs are accidental occurrences

There There nothing accidental about believing butter is healthier than jam on toast. It is all born of choice.

Kobojunkie:
There There nothing accidental about believing butter is healthier than jam on toast. It is all born of choice.

It is accidental because nobody plans it


It just happens in your head


You don't plan to believe


You just believe what you cannot resist in your head as something to believe

HellVictorinho:

It is accidental because nobody plans it
It just happens in your head
You don't plan to believe
You just believe what you cannot resist in your head as something to believe

Following your assertion, are we also to conclude that choices and decisions are accidental?

You weigh the options before you in order to decide whether to believe in an idea or not... same way you make decisions about anything else out there.

LordReed:


I stopped believing in the only god I thought existed, a benevolent, all powerful, all knowing, always present god. As I went along exploring more, I saw that it extended to the entire concept of theism. I still do hold out for the possibility that gods exist since the universe is vaster than we know however I don't think any concept of god humans currently have matches realty.

I wondered how it was possible for an all powerful, all knowing, all present God to exist
I wondered how it was possible for such God to even care
I wondered how it was possible for any God to deserve reverence as this or that despite people having different views about its identity


Then I wondered if it was possible for any God to exist


Considering the impossibility of anything to exist without a limit except existence itself towards existence being the property of something to possess limits towards existence having neither a beginning nor an end as well as the absence of a definition of God (s) that show(s) how God(s) can exist,I consider it impossible for any God to exist.



I have seen that the universe can only exist as a group of ageless indivisible objects.

I have also seen that there is no definition of God (s) that can show how God(s) can exist

HellVictorinho:
I have no chosen belief

We all have at least one.

Kobojunkie:
Following your assertion, are we also to conclude that choices and decisions are accidental?

You weigh the options before you in order to decide whether to believe in an idea or not... same way you make decisions about anything else out there.

Choices are not beliefs

Don't make unnecessary comparisons

There's no option when it comes to faith


You are either able to resist or not


Illustration



If I say I need money

You immediately find it as something to believe or not


But you don't choose even if you say you choose.


You just believe or not immediately after you are able to determine it is something to believe or not.


Saying you choose to believe only shows you believe


You never really had the ability to resist if you believe


If you don't believe,it means you resisted or your brain resisted it as something to believe



It's about your brain



Your brain either resists or gets overwhelmed by chance towards something to believe





Your consciousness doesn't give you the ability to determine whether or not your brain will resist anything to believe that you have not come across


Note: you resisting is the same as your brain resisting because your brain represents you in such case.
If your leg kicks the ball,then you kicked the ball because your leg represents you in that case

Kobojunkie:
We all have at least one.

Read my reply to the other post.

HellVictorinho:


Choices are not beliefs

Don't make unnecessary comparisons

There's no option when it comes to faith


You are either able to resist or not


Illustration



If I say I need money

You immediately find it as something to believe or not


But you don't choose even if you say I choose.


You just believe or not immediately after you are able to determine it is something to believe or not.


Saying you choose to believe only shows you believe


You never really had the ability to resist if you believe


If you don't believe,it means you resisted or your brain resisted it as something to believe



It's about your brain



Your brain either resists or gets overwhelmed by chance


You are not capable of making your brain to resist anything as something to believe


There's a limit to what you can do with your brain.



Your consciousness doesn't give you the ability to determine whether or not your brain will resist anything to believe that you have not come across


Note: you resisting is the same as your brain resisting because your brain represents you in such case.
If your leg kicks the ball,then you kicked the ball because your leg represents you in that case

Beliefs are born of choices hence the reason I continue to state that a belief is a choice made. You are free to believe as you want or choose though.

Kobojunkie:
Beliefs are born of choices hence the reason I continue to state that a belief is a choice made. You are free to believe as you want or choose though.

I am able to resist what you are saying as something to believe



I don't choose not to believe or to believe otherwise


I just resist or I am just overwhelmed by the opposite of what you are saying

LordReed:


I stopped believing in the only god I thought existed, a benevolent, all powerful, all knowing, always present god. As I went along exploring more, I saw that it extended to the entire concept of theism. I still do hold out for the possibility that gods exist since the universe is vaster than we know however I don't think any concept of god humans currently have matches realty.

So you think the God all religions talk about is false and the real God can't be known?

Barristter07:



How did Jesus die when the real person don't die ?

Are you confused ?

Is it Jesus that died or ordinary body that house him ?

What do you believe happened?