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Nairaland Forum / Entertainment / Sports / European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) / Has Lionel Messi Surpassed The Status Of Pele, Maradona Or Zidane? (53194 Views)
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Re: Has Lionel Messi Surpassed The Status Of Pele, Maradona Or Zidane? by snowdrops(m): 7:53pm On Jun 05, 2011 |
Katsumoto:you must be a comedian comparing a nonsense pre-historic brazilian league to the Spanish/UEFA league that is arguably the best league in the world. and if dribbling is your problem, you obviously have not watched this chap play football. you only watch the CL final before reaching judgement. PLEASE LEAVE WIKIPEDIA ALONE. It does not make you look sanymore smarter |
Re: Has Lionel Messi Surpassed The Status Of Pele, Maradona Or Zidane? by snowdrops(m): 7:55pm On Jun 05, 2011 |
Katsumoto:and to show how ridiculous this is getting; a player scored 30 goals in a league game in rwanda, so he must be better than messi according to your logic. |
Re: Has Lionel Messi Surpassed The Status Of Pele, Maradona Or Zidane? by Katsumoto: 7:59pm On Jun 05, 2011 |
snowdrops: I am stating facts while you are still resorting to insults and conjecture. Since wikipedia is manufacturing 'facts' for Pele why can't you also use Wikipedia to manufacture facts for Messi? snowdrops: No one said Messi is not a great player; he is going to be one of the greatests players no doubt. But don't elevate him above his seniors on the basis of european club football; he hasn't done anything yet for Argentina. If we are to use European football alone, he is still behind players such as Puskas and De Stafano who have more champions league medals than him. Heck even Clarence Seedorf has won the ECL four times with three different teams. By the way, Pele was 29 in 1970 when he won his last WC. Pele retired from the National team in 1971 at 30 scoring an amazing 77 times in 92 games. |
Re: Has Lionel Messi Surpassed The Status Of Pele, Maradona Or Zidane? by Katsumoto: 8:00pm On Jun 05, 2011 |
snowdrops: So Rwanda can now be equated with Brazil the greatest producer of football artisans? Keep up with the snide remarks. Please produce the facts that support your opinion; I am producing mine. |
Re: Has Lionel Messi Surpassed The Status Of Pele, Maradona Or Zidane? by snowdrops(m): 8:04pm On Jun 05, 2011 |
Katsumoto:of course; since your focus is goal scored by any player in any league. and to add to that, in my local five a side team, i scored 7 goals as a sub yesterday. i must be better than messi, as wikipedia says he does not hav that amount in a single game. |
Re: Has Lionel Messi Surpassed The Status Of Pele, Maradona Or Zidane? by snowdrops(m): 8:09pm On Jun 05, 2011 |
Katsumoto:how can you quote facts from wikipedia when we know a good number of the info there lacks validity. imagine comparing seedorf who is a retiree with a small messi; yet seadorf has 4 while messi has 3 CL. that young man is astounding. is the Argentine team that went to the last world cup were anywhere as good as the Spanish team, we would have started counting his world cup winners medal by now. it was only unfortunate that he went with a team full of numpties. you cant blame him for that. even though he did not score his contribution was immense. everyone knows that diego maradona played him out of position and some sceptics alluded to the point that diego was jealous of messi surpassing his achievement for the national side. |
Re: Has Lionel Messi Surpassed The Status Of Pele, Maradona Or Zidane? by Katsumoto: 8:11pm On Jun 05, 2011 |
snowdrops: I have backed my opinion with more than just goals. Pele was an attacking midfielder who scored in excess of 1250 goals. That is a phenomenal statictic. Pele won three WC; Zidane won just one; Maradona just one; Ronaldo won two even though he didn't play a single game in 1994. I listed other bits of facts for you; I am still waiting for your list of facts for Messi or any other player. This is an argument that you are bound to lose because no player comes close to Pele in achievement. Lets leave personal opinion out of this; just facts please. snowdrops: You stated that I used Wikipedia; I never stated that I used Wikipedia. You are wasting your time conjecturing; why not produce facts? I haven't listed a single fact from Wikipedia. The information I listed can easily be verified. For instance if you state that Messi stopped the war in Sudan, I will quickly check to verify whether its true or not. I suggest you do the same instead of conjecturing. Maradona sabotaged his team since he didn't Messi to surpass his record; what a load of nonsense. Dude, list your facts; leave gossip and conjecture aside. |
Re: Has Lionel Messi Surpassed The Status Of Pele, Maradona Or Zidane? by lagerwhenindoubt(m): 8:15am On Jun 06, 2011 |
@snowdrops and @Katsumoto Na wa for una oooh. Each player is a great in his own right, sure times have changed but in Pele's time he became a legend, the facts remain whether he played ancient or modern football, you cannot take that away from him. Maradona played in a different era and he and Pele are still considered Legends even to this day. Messi is still growing and the facts remain. He has not accomplished anywhere near Pele or Maradona. if these players became Legends in their own Era, Messi must become one in his own Era. comparisons across different eras will only cause the sort of arguments you are having. is Messi better than Ronaldo Luís Nazário de Lima - lest we forget his well rounded accomplishments both on National and Club Level. Messi still has a long way to becomign a Legend in modern football. he is a great footballer though |
Re: Has Lionel Messi Surpassed The Status Of Pele, Maradona Or Zidane? by snowdrops(m): 10:13am On Jun 06, 2011 |
@ Katsumoto this your obsession with footballers stopping wars is laughable. next it would be a footballer manufacturing a vaccine, or going to the sun. judge them by what they do on the pitch and not outside it. i rate messi for his achievements for his age and circumstances irrespective of the competition. therefore his feat for club is excellent. even as an international. 1. 2005 FIFA U21 WC he won the golden ball/shoe as he led Argentina to gold. 2. 2008 Olympics; gold with Argentina 3. Injury limited performance in 2006 WC; and a 5 star one in 2010 WC. Is that fact enough for you? |
Re: Has Lionel Messi Surpassed The Status Of Pele, Maradona Or Zidane? by snowdrops(m): 10:20am On Jun 06, 2011 |
@ lagerwhenindoubt my argument is not whether messi is better than ronaldo/pele/maradonna as we know such comparisons in the past had been wild geese chase. is had stated earlier some of your points which are 1. messi is still young and needs more time before passing judgements 2. he is a fantastic and excellent footballer given his age. i also state that caution should be exercised in slating the guy for not having won a so called world cup given his age and how rubbish his national side had been. pele was lucky to had been gifted brilliant players and coaches during his time right from an early age. pele as well played most of his football in south America; and his 1000 or 1000000 goals should be judged in that respect. therefore we can say because he scored 200 goals in a Brazilian league in one season in the iron age he is better than messi would ever be. |
Re: Has Lionel Messi Surpassed The Status Of Pele, Maradona Or Zidane? by Effiko(m): 5:25pm On Jun 06, 2011 |
Tank GOD am nt de onli person sayin dese tings , hahahah , @snowdrops , beta wake up |
Re: Has Lionel Messi Surpassed The Status Of Pele, Maradona Or Zidane? by Katsumoto: 5:57pm On Jun 06, 2011 |
lagerwhenindoubt: Messi is a great player and is on his way to becoming a legend. I like Messi but I have to challenge ignorant statements when I see them. If you notice from my initial posts, I stated that Pele, Zidane, Maradona, and Ronaldo were all ahead of Messi on the basis that they had success in club and international football. Messi has success with club football but he is yet to do it with Argentina in the WC. There is nothing that Messi is doing now that Roberto Baggio didn't do in the 90s or that Platini didn't do in the 80s or Cryuff didn't do in the 70s. Do you know why Zidane is rated higher than Cryuff, Baggio, Platini, Puskas, Di Stafano? They all won the ECL but they didn't win the World Cup. In another 20 years, if Messi fails to win the world cup, he too would fade a bit in status. snowdrops: Is the Brazilian league some kind of mickey mouse league? You continue to expose your limited knowledge of football. As far as you are concerned, European football is the summit of football. You sound like one of those football fans who caught the bug of football recently. I suggest you try and get your hands on some old school football reels and stop belittling football in the old eras or in other continents. snowdrops: Is that all? Pele had won the World Cup twice at the age of 21 and you are talking about someone that is 23 and hasn't played in the semi-final. Do you know that the last world cup winning team to retain the trophy four years later was the Brazilian team of 1958 and 1962 of which Pele was one of the few members of both teams? I mention that just to illustrate how difficult it is to win the world cup. You stated that football is easier now than then. I am still waiting for points to support that position. Footballers earning more these days does not point to that. |
Re: Has Lionel Messi Surpassed The Status Of Pele, Maradona Or Zidane? by snowdrops(m): 10:00am On Jun 07, 2011 |
Effiko:Have always been as wide awake as day and night. you my brother needs to realize how naive you are on footballing matters. If you like, come at me with your attack dogs here. I can handle all of you. So bring it on. |
Re: Has Lionel Messi Surpassed The Status Of Pele, Maradona Or Zidane? by snowdrops(m): 10:18am On Jun 07, 2011 |
Katsumoto:Yet again you show how incorrigible you are. you argue on and on and on about the same point. And over and over again i try correcting you and your cronies but your seeming ignorance beclouds your sense of reasoning. How can you compare a whole footballing career of retired professionals to a young player who has not even peaked. Its like saying BTF is a better governor than Rochas Okorocha even though the latter is a few days in office. Get the gist Katsumoto:And in your mind Cryuff, Baggio, Platini et al have faded into oblivion because they did not win the magical world cup. How many members of the Italian world cup winning sides of the 30s or that of Uruguay in its first edition or later after the war can you name Tell me before you jump to wikipedia? If you cant then shame on you. If you think football is all about winning the world cup then you are even more delusional than i first thought. Katsumoto: Yes European football is the summit, the Pinnacle, the Ultimate when it comes to football. Happy, Sad, start crying now. Only a complete novice would say it is not. It is the richest league in the world. It has all the worlds best players in it. The south americans only return home when they are near retirement or have lost form. I would take European football any day over any other one. Tell me how many matches from brazilian league is shown by the satellite tv broadcasters? Name me 10 players currently playing for santos, coritheans, etc or any of the clubs from brazil? I am sure you cant even name one. But you can name a hundred easily from europe. I have seen brazilian leagues and i follow a blogger called tim vickery regulary. Believe me it is more ugly than pretty. Katsumoto:Tell me how many games pele played in the 1958 and 1962 world cups? how central was he to the team at those young ages? the teams were so good that they could have easily won the tournament without pele. the 1970 one was different but yet they had carlos albeto, jairzinho, rivelinho, tostao, etc and coached by the brilliant zagallo. messi would have won the world cup in that team as well. pele did not single handedly win it although he played a great part. a team cannot make a forest. |
Re: Has Lionel Messi Surpassed The Status Of Pele, Maradona Or Zidane? by babyboy3(m): 12:47pm On Jun 07, 2011 |
Is that all? Pele had won the World Cup twice at the age of 21 and you are talking about someone that is 23 and hasn't played in the semi-final Messi struggled in the last world cup because Argentina hired a looney in Maradona to manage them, Pekeman was no different in 2006, and Messi grew up with Barcelona and not playing for one of Boca junior or River Plate, thats why Messi is never been warmed to when he plays for Argentina! Only Zidane has the full set of Medals. |
Re: Has Lionel Messi Surpassed The Status Of Pele, Maradona Or Zidane? by snowdrops(m): 12:52pm On Jun 07, 2011 |
Exactly. I dont know why this man has been arguing the blindly obvious so far. Leave Messi alone. Let him develop. The world cup is not running away. The world is at his feet. |
Re: Has Lionel Messi Surpassed The Status Of Pele, Maradona Or Zidane? by Effiko(m): 6:23pm On Jun 07, 2011 |
den u fuckas shld stp makin dumb conclusions |
Re: Has Lionel Messi Surpassed The Status Of Pele, Maradona Or Zidane? by snowdrops(m): 7:03pm On Jun 07, 2011 |
Effiko:is that all you ve got. one liner surely you can do better. you dey disappoint me effiko abi whatever your name is. |
Re: Has Lionel Messi Surpassed The Status Of Pele, Maradona Or Zidane? by Nobody: 7:08pm On Jun 07, 2011 |
football then was more of a contact sport,there are videos of pele getting his shirt torn by defenders,when was the last time it happened now,we had defenders who with one tackle can end your career back then and now u just have to blow at messi and the ref will blow his whistle.messi has it easy now cos he is protected,maradona,zidane,pele never got any kind of protection.the final btw italy and france(zouzou sent off)matterazi was constantly fouling zouzou but materazi never got a single card,now just attempt to mark messi and you geta straight red card.dont get me wronmg,messi is overtly talented but he is wayyyyyyyyyyyyy over protected.if he can be allowed to be tackled like maradona,pele,zouzou and ronaldo got tackled(for christ sake,a def ended ronaldo's career)then i will say he is better than them but now,he is not near them cos he is way over-protected |
Re: Has Lionel Messi Surpassed The Status Of Pele, Maradona Or Zidane? by snowdrops(m): 7:18pm On Jun 07, 2011 |
zidane only retired a few years ago and the rules have not changed much in that period. the rules are made by FIFA and applied by the match officials. there are matches when the referee more or less constantly ignores infringements on messi and his barca colleagues and others when they appear more lenient. the problem is when teams play barca they set themselves to defend and trying to stop them at all cost hence the fouling. you cant blame the ref for applying the rule. roll back some years, zidane played in a different role and team and league to messi so their circumstances were quite different. i don't believe he was ever discriminated against by the officials during his time. if you must know that was not the first time zz was head butting someone. he had done it in at least one match when he was still in juve. he gets frustrated when things are not going his way just like Paul scholes. speaking about your point on Pele, that was ages ago, but i don't accept football was ever rugby. but i would agree that over the years the authorities have changed the rules in other to make the game more exciting and have more goals. hence more protection for strikers. |
Re: Has Lionel Messi Surpassed The Status Of Pele, Maradona Or Zidane? by babyboy3(m): 7:42pm On Jun 07, 2011 |
The ban on tackle from behind was brought in 1990 to protect strikers, Messi is one the toughest players to knock off the ball, I saw John Terry charged Messi and he didn't move, El Classico he gets kicked from Pillar to Post telling me he is not tough is pure fantasy! Argentines are different from Brazilian who dives all over the place. |
Re: Has Lionel Messi Surpassed The Status Of Pele, Maradona Or Zidane? by snowdrops(m): 7:50pm On Jun 07, 2011 |
what messi does for his age is unbelievably impressive. he is skillful and telented thats a fact, but he is so strong on the ball and there have been times when he is fouled in the 18" but rather than roll on the grass screaming for a penalty he stays on his feet surging towards goal. he is like wayne rooney, carlos tevez and zidane all in one. |
Re: Has Lionel Messi Surpassed The Status Of Pele, Maradona Or Zidane? by lagerwhenindoubt(m): 8:16am On Jun 08, 2011 |
baby-boy: It is not unusual to maintain balance and purpose when tackled on the ball (A lot of strikers often show that skill). Diving on the other hand requires delicate technique and calculation. it is not easy to dive convincingly on the run of play in a critical match, the psychological and mental intelligence required takes years of training and meditation. You think the referees are not watching? |
Re: Has Lionel Messi Surpassed The Status Of Pele, Maradona Or Zidane? by Effiko(m): 10:26am On Jun 08, 2011 |
@snowdrops i had told wateva i wanted 2 sai , i didnt see de point of arguing aimlessly wit you , man and yea effiko is ma name |
Re: Has Lionel Messi Surpassed The Status Of Pele, Maradona Or Zidane? by snowdrops(m): 10:30am On Jun 08, 2011 |
If you dont want to argue why come back here starting one? |
Re: Has Lionel Messi Surpassed The Status Of Pele, Maradona Or Zidane? by Effiko(m): 10:49am On Jun 08, 2011 |
Effiko: hw does 'dis statement' start an argument , haba @snowdrops |
Re: Has Lionel Messi Surpassed The Status Of Pele, Maradona Or Zidane? by snowdrops(m): 12:39pm On Jun 08, 2011 |
Effiko: Effiko:chei. if that does not spark and argument i wonder what would. |
Re: Has Lionel Messi Surpassed The Status Of Pele, Maradona Or Zidane? by Effiko(m): 4:28pm On Jun 08, 2011 |
hhahaha , wateva , man |
Re: Has Lionel Messi Surpassed The Status Of Pele, Maradona Or Zidane? by snowdrops(m): 4:29pm On Jun 08, 2011 |
Effiko:Whhhaaaattteeva. You are not having the last word. |
Re: Has Lionel Messi Surpassed The Status Of Pele, Maradona Or Zidane? by Effiko(m): 4:35pm On Jun 08, 2011 |
u tink so no i dont |
Re: Has Lionel Messi Surpassed The Status Of Pele, Maradona Or Zidane? by snowdrops(m): 4:35pm On Jun 08, 2011 |
ok na. two can play that game. |
Re: Has Lionel Messi Surpassed The Status Of Pele, Maradona Or Zidane? by Effiko(m): 4:48pm On Jun 08, 2011 |
u sure knw how we do it , dont u |
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