I like Deeper life so much because they are focused on holiness and pleasing God. For me this is the most essential doctrine that we should all be aware of.

But I am struggling with the following doctrines :

- Tithe and offerings
- Rapture Vs second coming
- Strict cult like organization
- inability to reject certain doctrines such as the above and remain in the church
- If you leave the church you are literally cut off and seen as a backslider


Am I paranoid or what do you think ?

Constructive opinions will be appreciated.

frosbel:

Am I paranoid or what do you think ?

I think you need a pastor .

lol

I have my Jesus.

Christians need to assemble together, it is difficult to get another fellowship like deeper life nowadays.

But I do not want to be tied down with man made traditions

I think you need a pastor .

[size=16pt]No you need Jesus, study Matthew to John and you'll find out that all these pastors and Pentecostals churches today are fake.[/size]

Have you received the infilling of the holy spirt ?

Joagbaje:

I think you need a pastor .

Why??

Why can't we discuss and learn from each other.

Must the "Pastor" do the thinking for you?

Joagbaje:

Have you received the infilling of the holy spirt ?

What is the "Infilling" of the holy spirit?

How do we know if one has this Holy spirit?

dare2think:

Why??

Why can't we discuss and learn from each other.

Must the "Pastor" do the thinking for you?

Thank you.

Probably you need more biblical teachings on salvation, sanctification and Holy Spirit baptism; besides, total submission to God. Pray also to experience these basics, then you would realise that His grace can sustain and empower you to abide by these doctrines.

firebrand

Probably you need more biblical teachings on salvation, sanctification and Holy Spirit baptism; besides, total submission to God. Pray also to experience these basics, then you would realise that His grace can sustain and empower you to abide by these doctrines .

[size=16pt]You mean cult  doctrines![/size]

^^^
There is no such thing as cult doctrine in this case. It only exist in your realm of imagination. There is no secrecy as it is common among occultic society. There is no compulsion to embrace the teacching/preaching of the church, it is left for the individual to decide either to accept the message or not. Nobody has ever been coerced to remain in the church but out of their own conviction gladly accept the doctrine and lived by them. And by the way you can judge a preacher by his ways of life, hence examine the message and the messanger if there is any contradiction.

firebrand

There is no such thing as cult doctrine in this case. It only exist in your realm of imagination. There is no secrecy as it is common among occultic society,

[size=15pt]If you don't belong to a house fellowship they don't want anything to do with you, is this not a cult practice, did Jesus ask anyone to join a house fellowship? Once you join their house fellowship then they begin their brainwashing [/size]

frosbel:

I like Deeper life so much because they are focused on holiness and pleasing God. For me this is the most essential doctrine that we should all be aware of.

But I am struggling with the following doctrines :

frosbel:

- Tithe and offerings

^
Nothing wrong with offerings unless there is a specific practice that you find objectionable (perhaps you need to be more specific here). On tithes: no doubt this is controversial but do they make it compulsory or teach that one will go to hell for not tithing (as some people teach)? Ultimately; God is the one who will judge our giving (He sees the motives and attitudes in our hearts that drives our "tithes" and "offerings".

frosbel:

- Rapture Vs second coming

^
What exactly do they believe concerning the "rapture"? Please be specific here so that we can consider it. You do realize that though the word "rapture" does not occur in the Bible, it is derived from the Greek harpazo referring to the catching up of the saints at Christ's return. Does DL deny the second coming of the Lord?

frosbel:

- Strict cult like organization

^
How so? Explain this please.

I really would appreciate it if you are more specific on these concerns of yours. As currently stated they are rather vague.

firebrand:

Probably you need more biblical teachings on salvation, sanctification and Holy Spirit baptism; besides, total submission to God. Pray also to experience these basics, then you would realise that His grace can sustain and empower you to abide by these doctrines.

That's why he needs a pastor to tutor him, nothing more can help him

@aletheia l
^

Nothing wrong with offerings unless there is a specific practice that you find objectionable (perhaps you need to be more specific here). On tithes: no doubt this is controversial but do they make it compulsory or teach that one will go to hell for not tithing (as some people teach)? Ultimately; God is the one who will judge our giving (He sees the motives and attitudes in our hearts that drives our "tithes" and "offerings".
^

1. In church normally it is constantly mentioned that if you do not tithe you are under a curse. I refuse to accept this. We are under grace and not the law.

2. Telling people to raise their hands and pay their tithes and offerings is not the right way to collect money.  People should be allowed to contribute voluntarily how much they have purposed in their hearts and in secret.

3. Money collected from Christians is never meant to be for physical church buildings, it is for the needs of the saints , poor and oppressed.

4. God does not ask his children to pay him tithes and offerings so that he will bless them, if we who are evil will not demand money from our children because we take care of them, then how much more God. Are we better than he ?

What exactly do they believe concerning the "rapture"? Please be specific here so that we can consider it. You do realize that though the word "rapture" does not occur in the Bible, it is derived from the Greek harpazo referring to the catching up of the saints at Christ's return. Does DL deny the second coming of the Lord?
^
How so? Explain this please.

I believe that the rapture and the second coming are one and the same thing. To suggest that there is some secret taking away of saints and then a 7 year period of great tribulation and then the second coming is wrong.

Read some articles I posted on this form about this issue about last week

Strict cult like organization
^
How so? Explain this please.

I really would appreciate it if you are more specific on these concerns of yours. As currently stated they are rather vague.

1. Once you leave the church, it is almost as if you left the faith

2. You cannot challenge any doctrine, such as the tithe and offerings etc . If you do, you cannot be a worker and may have to leave the church. Whatever the leader says is final just like the pope's infallibility.

But even the words of Paul who was a mighty apostle of GOD were carefully scrutinised by the Berean Christians to see if they were true.

"Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true." - Acts 17:11


For me the most important issues are ;


1. Real repentance from wickedness and sin
2. Holiness without which no man will see the Lord
3. Good works for the salvation of souls and care of the needy, especially those of the household of God.

"Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world."- James 1:27

frosbel:

1. In church normally it is constantly mentioned that if you do not tithe you are under a curse. I refuse to accept this. We are under grace and not the law.

2. Telling people to raise their hands and pay their tithes and offerings is not the right way to collect money.  People should be allowed to contribute voluntarily how much they have purposed in their hearts and in secret.

3. Money collected from Christians is never meant to be for physical church buildings, it is for the needs of the saints , poor and oppressed.

4. God does not ask his children to pay him tithes and offerings so that he will bless them, if we who are evil will not demand money from our children because we take care of them, then how much more God. Are we better than he ?

^
All these that you have enumerated is the typical modus operandi of pentecostal churches like RCCG, Living Faith, and Christ Embassy. I may be mistaken but I am not aware that DL does this.

Moreover your assertion that "Money collected from Christians is never meant to be for physical church buildings" is actually weak and can not really be supported by the scripture. Consider this verse: "Act 19:9 But when some became stubborn and continued in unbelief, speaking evil of the Way before the congregation, he withdrew from them and took the disciples with him, reasoning daily in the hall of Tyrannus." We are not told how this hall was procured; but supposing it needed to be rented, who do you think would provide money for renting it? Is it not the believers? On the other hand if Tyrannus was a believer; where would the funds for the upkeep and maintenance of the hall come from; if not believers?

I know churches where believers are urged to give a tenth portion of their income to support the pastors and their families (the Word of God does make provision for ministers of the gospel to procure a living by it). But it is not made a condition for grace and they make quite clear the reason for asking people to give and that is to support their pastors and missionaries. And these churches do render a financial account at the end of each fiscal year.

frosbel:

I believe that the rapture and the second coming are one and the same thing. To suggest that there is some secret taking away of saints and then a 7 year period of great tribulation and then the second coming is wrong.

^
What is the official DL doctrine on the Second Coming? I am sure you were at one time of the persuasion that the rapture of saints is distinct and separate from the second coming. Seeing as that even in the time of the Apostles; there was some confusion in this regard (the incident of John 21:23 is quite instructive as to how even a plain saying of Jesus can be over-analyzed and misinterpreted); ought you not to be patient with the brethren with regard to this, gently communicating the truth. It's not as if they deny that Jesus is Lord or that He is returning; it's just that they have been misled as to the nature of the Second Advent by centuries of Roman Catholic traditions and teaching.

frosbel:

Read some articles I posted on this form about this issue about last week

^
Did your articles address the origins of the traditions concerning the "7 year tribulation and secret rapture"?

frosbel:

1. Once you leave the church, it is almost as if you left the faith

^
I really don't see that as a problem. No one is forced to remain. And certainly people are welcome to worship with them.

frosbel:

2. You cannot challenge any doctrine, such as the tithe and offerings etc . If you do, you cannot be a worker and may have to leave the church. Whatever the leader says is final just like the pope's infallibility.

But even the words of Paul who was a mighty apostle of GOD were carefully scrutinised by the Berean Christians to see if they were true.

"Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true." - Acts 17:11

^
The Church is not a democracy. There must be order and we are to be submissive to those that God has placed in positions of authority. Tithe and offerings are not foundational doctrines. . .so I don't see any point getting all hot and bothered about it if the way it is presented does not add to the completed work of Jesus on the cross. But it makes sense for one not to be a worker if he does not agree with the doctrines of the church. I do not believe that Kumuyi considers himself infallible. You do him an injustice (I guess it's your passion about these things speaking).

frosbel:

For me the most important issues are ;

1. Real repentance from wickedness and sin
2. Holiness without which no man will see the Lord
3. Good works for the salvation of souls and care of the needy, especially those of the household of God.

"Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world."- James 1:27

^
Does DL go against any of these in their teaching. Isn't it rather the case that DL makes other denominations uncomfortable because they more than most others do emphasize holiness and separation from the world not just in word but in deed.

P.S. Doesn't those of the household of God include full time pastors and missionaries and their families? And if the church decides to set aside a tithe (or a tenth) of their income to support these ones; is it a wrong?

Brother Frosbel, you don dey holi pass Jesus ke?
Whistling 'amazing grace'

deeper life mainly focuses on 24 dangers of wearing d lipstick doin such makes ppl judgemental.u cant realli focuson God can you?

@Mr Bible or watever u r called,

You really ve to get ur facts correct before engaging in some typing exercise. first of all, if you do not understand the doctrines the church preaches, u ve no right to call it cult practices. I for one, will not call islamic teachings cultism because I do not understand what they stand for and there are people who really uphold these teachings. The best thing for you to do is to ask for explanation or clarification of these teachings, and if you still do not believe them, then let it go. No one is forcing you to accept them so dont come here and start criticising a church's doctrines that is founded on the word of God.