sonmvayina:


You did not...you just made them up...

I have checked and there Is nothing there that says anything about jes_s ......

They all where talking about the Messiah if you are looking for the word Jesus you won't see it

But look at what God said about the seed who will defeat Satan

That seed is the Messiah Jesus

Bishopkingsley:


Paul’s use of the terms die and live convey temporal (rather than eternal) truths which result from sin and obedience respectively.

For example, sin produces various forms of physical death here and now. Believers can experience physical death due to sin

1 Cor 11:30;
1 John 5:16;
Jas 5:19-20.

Sin can bring upon mental distress and guilt (psychological death,
1 Sam 15–16;
Ps 51:2-9).

Also, fellowship with others (1 Cor 5–6:12) and Christ (1 John 1:5-10) can be lost (social death) on account of sin.

On the other hand, obedient acts of honesty and fidelity can produce various blessings:

Physical longevity
(Ps 119:144;.
Prov 4:4; 7:2; 15:27;
Eph 6:3; Jas 1:21).
Psychological wellness (Ps 69:32).
An abundant quality of a life of fellowship (John 10:10; 15:11).

So in that verse Paul urges Christians to seek the best in life through obedience and the power of a Spirit-led life.

So

The issue in Rom 8:13 is not taking about eternal death and is not assurance of eternal life, but sanctification and well being.

If you long for a life overflowing with meaning and significance, live according to the Spirit.
To really live you must put your old self to death over and over again.

So let edit the real meaning properly from your statement

Rom.8.13 - For if you (**if you christians) live according to the sinful nature, YOU WILL DIE (**physical die ); but if by the Spirit you PUT TO DEATH the misdeeds of the body, you will live (**you have a great live like all those great pastors you see living beautiful living note Paul said live and nor life note the difference meaning you will live here on earth in a beautiful way ),

Ok friend... Sorry to have troubled your thread earlier: I HOPE I DON'T DO THAT AGAIN. This teaching of yours to me is demonic. Yes, because it encourages sin and renders the purpose of Repentance which Jesus came and preached USELESS: sin, the work of the devil, of which Jesus came to destroy, and that henceforth, we should Obey Jesus and be Holy as God is Holy. John 14:15; 15:14.

Honestly, I think it's better for me to go and do some profitable business and make real Money than to be fooling myself about telling Sinners that "Hey, you want go to heaven when you die? Ok, just say this sinners prayer after me: lord, bla bla bla... Haa... Finished, boy! You're saved: SEALED forever!"

No, far from it. Jesus said one should FIRST count the COST of Following Him (luke 14:25-33). The cost of Denying oneself, taking up the Cross and Following Him DAILY. To Hate Father, Mother, brother, sister and even one's OWN LIFE (v 33).

In fact, someone asked Jesus about How Many would be finally saved:

Luke.13.23 - Then one said to Him, "LORD, ARE THERE FEW WHO ARE SAVED?" And He said to them,

Luke.13.24 - "STRIVE TO ENTER through the narrow gate, FOR MANY, I say to you, WILL SEEK TO ENTER AND WILL NOT BE ABLE (***now this is Strong: I say Lord have mercy on me).

I had to start avoiding some common churches like the plague because of doctrines like this of yours, even some that don't preach it have the Spirit: by the way they live, playing with Sin and Empty Repentance prayers everyday and night.

Yes, I'd rather go and make money and POSSIBLY sell my soul in the process, bro. Than take this piece of yours.

I have nothing to sell (no group or church to sell: I don't even have a church for now, anyway).

Now, if anyone can't find what I stand for in the scriptures (in the life and preaching of Jesus and his apostles) PLEASE, IGNORE me. PLEASE... May God help us in every way we're deceived and wrong; we need more light. False prophets have made too much progress in us: TOO MUCH.


GOODBYE ON THIS THREAD!

Peace...

anu3:


Ok friend... Sorry to have troubled your thread earlier: I HOPE I DON'T DO THAT AGAIN. This teaching of yours to me is demonic. Yes, because it encourages sin and renders the purpose of Repentance which Jesus came and preached USELESS: sin, the work of the devil, of which Jesus came to destroy, and that henceforth, we should Obey Jesus and be Holy as God is Holy. John 14:15; 15:14.

Honestly, I think it's better for me to go and do some profitable business and make real Money than to be fooling myself about telling Sinners that "Hey, you want go to heaven when you die? Ok, just say this sinners prayer after me: lord, bla bla bla... Haa... Finished, boy! You're saved: SEALED forever!"

No, far from it. Jesus said one should FIRST count the COST of Following Him (luke 14:25-33). The cost of Denying oneself, taking up the Cross and Following Him DAILY. To Hate Father, Mother, brother, sister and even one's OWN LIFE (v 33).

In fact, someone asked Jesus about How Many would be finally saved:

Luke.13.23 - Then one said to Him, "LORD, ARE THERE FEW WHO ARE SAVED?" And He said to them,

Luke.13.24 - "STRIVE TO ENTER through the narrow gate, FOR MANY, I say to you, WILL SEEK TO ENTER AND WILL NOT BE ABLE (***now this is Strong: I say Lord have mercy on me).

I had to start avoiding some common churches like the plague because of doctrines like this of yours, even some that don't preach it have the Spirit: by the way they live, playing with Sin and Empty Repentance prayers everyday and night.

Yes, I'd rather go and make money and POSSIBLY sell my soul in the process, bro. Than take this piece of yours.

I have nothing to sell (no group or church to sell: I don't even have a church for now, anyway).

Now, if anyone can't find what I stand for in the scriptures (in the life and preaching of Jesus and his apostles) PLEASE, IGNORE me. PLEASE... May God help us in every way we're deceived and wrong; we need more light. False prophets have made too much progress in us: TOO MUCH.


GOODBYE ON THIS THREAD!

Peace...

My brother you did not trouble me because you need to know the truth about what you preach

I also want or wish it was like you thought but the word of God is not what we wish or think

Now imagine this

Look at the old testament

God himself threatened Adam and eve if they eat this thing they will surely die
. Tell me which other threat that is more than this tell me which other powerful words is more than this statement

Yet Adam and eve still eat the thing

So it is not about telling people that

For if you live according to the sinful nature, YOU WILL DIE...

That will save them

You are not God that created human beings that know the solution to human beings

God used the law on the first two set of people he created it did not solve the problem

And now God is using grace on human beings and it is working and you are angry that it is working and you are threatening to go back to sin because it is not what you imagined his grace to be

You can ask yourself how many times have you been preaching that those who sin will die in hell how many times have those who you preach to listen to you

Those who you have threatened with this method don't you still see them doing bad things are they not the ones still committed evil in the world

The whole world knows that sin produces hell fire but still it not stopping any one from doing sin

You don't know how it works that why you don't know God method

Are you greater than God who appear to Adam and warn him not to eat it and Adam still eat it

If Adam (mankind) did not listen to God do you think that Adam (mankind) will listen to you

Just imagine me telling you the truth of how God works and you are still disobedience to the truth

Don't you see that some thing is making you to disobey the truth about what the bible preaches which is the ultimate truth in Christ Jesus

This is what is called the gospel, the good news people stumble because of Christ.... Jesus is a stumbling block to them because they thought they have to do something to earn their salvation

The whole mankind has already fallen who are you trying to please or are you trying to deceive God that you are better than Adam

God declared the heart of all men is evil continually and he has a solution for it and you are fighting God solution

You keep threatening people with death as if it is what will work and make them not to sin when God has shown us that that method did not work for the first two people he created

My brother bow down to Jesus, to Jesus grace that is what works my brother no one is telling you or any one to continue to sin

We are telling you that grace is what saves you from sin and that is what God command and it has been working for ages from the time Jesus died grace was released. The up ward gravity of grace is stronger than the downward gravity of sin


I will talk more about it soon

Just ask your self have threatening people been working for you even in your own life have you been faithful to God have you never sinned since you have been threatening yourself with eternal death has it stopped you from sin

I will shed more light on this when I studied your words very well


Prayer
Oh my father open his eyes to see grace and mercy and truth mixed with the law is what saves show him that threatening people with death has never saved any one

Bishopkingsley:



My brother you did not trouble me because you need to know the truth about what you preach

I also want or wish it was like you thought but the word of God is not what we wish or think

Now imagine this

Look at the old testament

God himself threatened Adam and eve if they eat this thing they will surely die
. Tell me which other threat that is more than this tell me which other powerful words is more than this statement

Yet Adam and eve still eat the thing

So it is not about telling people that

For if you live according to the sinful nature, YOU WILL DIE...

That will save them

You are not God that created human beings that know the solution to human beings

God used the law on the first two set of people he created it did not solve the problem

And now God is using grace on human beings and it is working and you are angry that it is working and you are threatening to go back to sin because it is not what you imagined his grace to be

You can ask yourself how many times have you been preaching that those who sin will die in hell how many times have those who you preach to listen to you

Those who you have threatened with this method don't you still see them doing bad things are they not the ones still committed evil in the world

The whole world knows that sin produces hell fire but still it not stopping any one from doing sin

You don't know how it works that why you don't know God method

Are you greater than God who appear to Adam and warn him not to eat it and Adam still eat it

If Adam (mankind) did not listen to God do you think that Adam (mankind) will listen to you

Just imagine me telling you the truth of how God works and you are still disobedience to the truth

Don't you see that some thing is making you to disobey the truth about what the bible preaches which is the ultimate truth in Christ Jesus

This is what is called the gospel, the good news people stumble because of Christ.... Jesus is a stumbling block to them because they thought they have to do something to earn their salvation

The whole mankind has already fallen who are you trying to please or are you trying to deceive God that you are better than Adam

God declared the heart of all men is evil continually and he has a solution for it and you are fighting God solution

You keep threatening people with death as if it is what will work and make them not to sin when God has shown us that that method did not work for the first two people he created

My brother bow down to Jesus, to Jesus grace that is what works my brother no one is telling you or any one to continue to sin

We are telling you that grace is what saves you from sin and that is what God command and it has been working for ages from the time Jesus died grace was released. The up ward gravity of grace is stronger than the downward gravity of sin


I will talk more about it soon

Just ask your self have threatening people been working for you even in your own life have you been faithful to God have you never sinned since you have been threatening yourself with eternal death has it stopped you from sin

I will shed more light on this when I studied your words very well


Prayer
Oh my father open his eyes to see grace and mercy and truth mixed with the law is what saves show him that threatening people with death has never saved any one

All right. Please, it's all okay now: I won't mention you anymore. And I'll appreciate if you can STOP quoting me too: I've told you to ignore me. Please, don't WASTE YOUR TIME quoting and writing any further...

Please...

Goodbye once again

Bishopkingsley:


They all where talking about the Messiah if you are looking for the word Jesus you won't see it

But look at what God said about the seed who will defeat Satan

That seed is the Messiah Jesus

Which seed?
Is God a prophet??

Matthew 1:20-23 says "an angel of the L-rd appeared to him (Joseph) in a dream and said, “Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. 21 She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins.” 22 All this took place to fulfill what the L-rd had said through the prophet: 23 “The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel” (which means “G-d with us”)."

This passage is rife with lies and mistakes.

Immanuel does not mean "G-d with us." It means G-d IS with us (as in G-d is with us in times of trouble). Isaiah was telling the king that G-d was with the Jewish people at a time when they feared two kingdoms who were about to attack them.

In a nutshell Isaiah told the king "Don't worry about those kings -- G-d is with us!"

There are many names that include the Hebrew word salvation -- Joshua and Hosea being two biblical names. The Hebrew word for salvation - יְשׁוּעָה y'shu'ah (which is feminine) simply means being “rescued” from danger—typically by the rescuer engaging in physical combat (fighting) with an assailant who is attacking the person being “saved”.

Thus the angel saying Mary named the boy Jesus "because he will save his people from their sins" makes no sense as that is not what the word means. Your immortal soul does not need "saving" and in the Hebrew Bible the term refers to physical lives being rescued from danger...

There is no prophecy that a virgin will conceive and give birth to a son in the T'nach. The word for virgin isn't in Isaiah 7 -- and the woman is already pregnant -- some 700 years before Jesus!

The prophecy in the T'nach (Y'shayahu / Isaiah 7:14) was for King Ahaz who lived 700 years before Jesus -- ergo a prophecy about for him had nothing to do with Jesus, or his birth.

Jesus was never called Immanuel -- he was called Jesus.

1. Let's discuss each point in more detail to prove the statements. עִמָּנוּ (Imanu) mean "with us", and אֵל (el) means mighty and powerful. אֵל (el) often used to describe G-d and is part of other words as well. The verb "to be" is implicit in the expression עִמָּנוּ אֵל. So, the two-word expression עִמָּנוּ אֵל (Imanu-el) means "G-d IS with us."

The term Immanuel is found three times in Isaiah.

In Y'shayahu / Isaiah 7:14 the term עִמָּנוּאֵל is clearly a personal name: "....and she will name him Imanu'el." In Y'shayahu / Isaiah 8:10, it is clearly a phrase "G-d is with us!" and not a personal name: "Devise a plan but it will be scotched; say your piece but it will not succeed, because G-d is with us!" In the case of Y'shayahu / Isaiah 8:8 it seems to again be referring to a person (and is his name): "....and its wingspan will extend across the entire width of your country, Imanu'el !"

Y'shayahu / Isaiah 7:14 says "she shall call his name Immanuel."

Matthew says she (Mary) names him Jesus, but THEY will call him Immanuel.

Whoever "they" might be this is not a fulfillment of Isaiah's prophecy which clearly says SHE (the mother) will name him Immanuel.

This may seem unimportant -- but it turns Matthew's "fulfillment" into a false claim of prophetic fulfillment.

"She" the child's mother names him -- not some unknown "they."

"She" naming him was unusual at the time as fathers normally named their children in those days... If the pregnant woman was Isaiah's wife (as many think) she herself was a prophet... that could explain why the mother was naming her son...

2. There is no prophecy that a virgin will conceive and give birth to a son.

This could be a very, very long discussion as this is a key argument on the part of missionaries.

It is silly, too, because if Jesus WERE a virgin birth he would have no claim to being the messiah.

The messiah must be of the tribe of Judah -- and tribal status is only passed through the biological father impregnating a Jewish woman and thus passing on the tribe. If Jesus was a virgin birth he had no tribe and thus could not be the messiah.

Missionaries insist that the Hebrew הָעַלְמָה ha-al'mah (the young woman) means virgin. There are literally books and websites galore trying to convince people that ha-al'mah (the young woman) means virgin.

The Hebrew word for "virgin" is בתולה / b'tulah.

The Hebrew for "young woman" is עַלְמָה al'mah (the הָ / ha prefix means "the".

Young women may or may not be virgins, and a virgin may or may not be young! The two words are not interchangeable.

The mistranslation to "virgin" seems to stem from the Greek word παρθενος / parthenos which is often (but not always) translated as "virgin."

At one time the Greek word παρθενος / parthenos was used to describe an unmarried woman -- virgin or no virgin. It also did not infer youth (as does the Hebrew word עַלְמָה / al'mah ). The Christian Septuagint / LXX used the word παρθενος / parthenos to speak of refers Dinah in B'reshit / Genesis 34:3, right after she was raped by Shechem and was no longer a virgin.

As far back as the first century of the common era Jews tried to correct Christians on "virgin" in Isaiah 7. Justin Martyr (100 CE, so VERY EARLY Christian) wrote in "Trypho the Jew" that Jews of his era said:

"You (Jews) and your teachers venture to affirm that in the prophecy of Isaiah it is not said, 'Behold, the virgin shall conceive,' but, 'Behold, the young woman shall conceive, and bear a son."

Ergo this debate has gone on nearly since the beginning of Christianity, with Jews trying to correct this Christian translation error and Christians ignoring us.

Since most pagan religions had virgin births the early Christians most likely did not want to be corrected, and with the passage of time many missionaries now believe that Jews "changed" the meaning of the word הָעַלְמָה ha-al'mah (the young woman) -- which is easily shown to be untrue since Hebrew words are based on root words and their is a corresponding word for "young man"!

Still, by focusing on the word ha-al'mah (the young woman) missionaries are obsessing over the wrong word. The focus should be on the next word -- הָרָה harah. It is easy enough to debunk the virgin birth "prophecy" claim of Y'shayahu / Isaiah without focusing on the word הָעַלְמָה ha-al'mah (the young woman).

In Y'shayahu / Isaiah 7:14. הָרָה harah is the adjective "pregnant." (not "will conceive". The words הִנֵּה הָעַלְמָה הָרָה hinneh ha-al'mah harah mean "there [pointing to her] is a pregnant young woman"

Since Isaiah was literally pointing out a pregnant woman to King Ahaz 700 years before Jesus this prophecy has nothing to do with Jesus or the messiah being "born of a virgin." הָעַלְמָה ha-al'mah (the young woman) says nothing about the young woman being a virgin or not being a virgin (although most pregnant women are not virgins).

Leaving , mistranslated as "virgin" (הָעַלְמָה ha-al'mah) untranslated, save for noting that the prefix ha- (which is normally the definite article "the" is being used here with poetic license in the sense of the demonstrative pronoun "that", lending emphasis to "that al'mah over there." In other words Isaiah was pointing to the "al'mah / young woman" as he spoke to King Ahaz.

But although the focus always seems to be on whether or not הָעַלְמָה ha-al'mah means virgin or young woman it is not terribly important in the context of the discussion at hand. Virgins get pregnant all the time (on their wedding night for example, or in Jewish law if she remains "in tact" after sexual relations -- or even if she becomes impregnated without penetration (believe it or not it is possible)...

No, that isn't terribly important -- although "virgin" is most definitely a mistranslation...

What are the important words?

The words in question are הָרָה harah and וְיֹלֶֽדֶת v'yoledet.

In Y'shayahu / Isaiah 7:14. הָרָה harah is the adjective "pregnant." (not "will conceive". The words הִנֵּה הָעַלְמָה הָרָה hinneh ha-al'mah harah mean "there [pointing to her] is a pregnant young woman"

Not "will conceive."

Pregnant.

The word : וְיֹלֶֽדֶת v'yoledet (the fourth word in the prophet's statement) is the feminine singular present participle of the root ילד (to give birth), and means "[she] is giving birth"....

If the woman is about to give birth in front of Ahaz and Isaiah how can this be a prophecy about Jesus who would not be born for another 700 years?

Isaiah is saying literally: "she is about to give birth [at any moment]", and used the present participle just to indicate immediacy. The word after v'yoledet, i.e. בֵּן bén, simply means "a son."

The word in Isaiah 7 is not virgin -- but even if it were "virgin" the prophecy is clearly not about the messiah or Jesus. The woman was giving birth, or very close to it, 700 years before Jesus.

To understand the prophecy of Y'shayahu / Isaiah 7:14 read the chapter starting with the first line. The chapter is a warning to King Ahaz of Judah (who lived 700 years before Jesus). Isaiah tells King Ahaz that he needn't fear the two kings he is worried about.

The prophecy of Y'shayahu / Isaiah 7 is fulfilled in Melachim Beit / II Kings 16.

Feel free to share this post but it is copyrighted. If you share it you must credit me as the author, Sophiee Saguy. Provide a link back to this page, too. Thank you.

anu3:


All right. Please, it's all okay now: I won't mention you anymore. And I'll appreciate if you can STOP quoting me too: I've told you to ignore me. Please, don't WASTE YOUR TIME quoting and writing any further...

Please...

Thanks for talking to me.

God started every thing And God ended every thing

God has the final say so is us his children I am the one to have the final say

When people who are growing up see your preaching here they will fall astray when they find out that the law can not be save them they will lose heart when ever they sin or make mistakes


. So no am the one who has the final say when they read my explanation they become gracious and they have hope that grace holds them and saves them then they can come back to God because they know grace is what keeps them in the kingdom

This is what we are commanded to declare and God command us to preach it in times of trouble and heat you are not the one to tell me when and where to stop

Adam did not listen to God truth

Why should I listen to your lies

You wrongly say it demonic preaching because you don't know God

Those who brought the woman caught in fornication where any of them holy

Answer is a NO
So why do they want to kill her when they themselves are sinners.


Just like you now you are a sinner yet you preach law and death when you yourself are in sin have God killed you answer is NO

so why preach demonic teaching to the children of God because you think that you can do better than God or better than Jesus

You want to have the final say when you preach evil teachings

NO

I am from God because I am an oracle of God and I am his child I speak in tongues and I have SEEN HIM who is invisible

God ways are far higher than human beings ways that why you can't understand the word of God

I understand it and it blows your mind yet nothing you think in your mind that can out do what Bible says that why I broke down every scripture your mind told you is against grace in your heart you know am saying the truth yet shame won't let you acknowledge it

The only way for you to have peace and go closer to the living God is to acknowledge the truth in the Bible

Search from now till eternity grace in Jesus is only what saves humanity not the law

You better see me as a man of God because in the future you will understand the things I say when you start to experience Bible truth

sonmvayina:
Matthew 1:20-23 says "an angel of the L-rd appeared to him (Joseph) in a dream and said, “Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. 21 She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins.” 22 All this took place to fulfill what the L-rd had said through the prophet: 23 “The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel” (which means “G-d with us”)."

This passage is rife with lies and mistakes.

Immanuel does not mean "G-d with us." It means G-d IS with us (as in G-d is with us in times of trouble). Isaiah was telling the king that G-d was with the Jewish people at a time when they feared two kingdoms who were about to attack them.

In a nutshell Isaiah told the king "Don't worry about those kings -- G-d is with us!"

There are many names that include the Hebrew word salvation -- Joshua and Hosea being two biblical names. The Hebrew word for salvation - יְשׁוּעָה y'shu'ah (which is feminine) simply means being “rescued” from danger—typically by the rescuer engaging in physical combat (fighting) with an assailant who is attacking the person being “saved”.

Thus the angel saying Mary named the boy Jesus "because he will save his people from their sins" makes no sense as that is not what the word means. Your immortal soul does not need "saving" and in the Hebrew Bible the term refers to physical lives being rescued from danger...

There is no prophecy that a virgin will conceive and give birth to a son in the T'nach. The word for virgin isn't in Isaiah 7 -- and the woman is already pregnant -- some 700 years before Jesus!

The prophecy in the T'nach (Y'shayahu / Isaiah 7:14) was for King Ahaz who lived 700 years before Jesus -- ergo a prophecy about for him had nothing to do with Jesus, or his birth.

Jesus was never called Immanuel -- he was called Jesus.

1. Let's discuss each point in more detail to prove the statements. עִמָּנוּ (Imanu) mean "with us", and אֵל (el) means mighty and powerful. אֵל (el) often used to describe G-d and is part of other words as well. The verb "to be" is implicit in the expression עִמָּנוּ אֵל. So, the two-word expression עִמָּנוּ אֵל (Imanu-el) means "G-d IS with us."

The term Immanuel is found three times in Isaiah.

In Y'shayahu / Isaiah 7:14 the term עִמָּנוּאֵל is clearly a personal name: "....and she will name him Imanu'el." In Y'shayahu / Isaiah 8:10, it is clearly a phrase "G-d is with us!" and not a personal name: "Devise a plan but it will be scotched; say your piece but it will not succeed, because G-d is with us!" In the case of Y'shayahu / Isaiah 8:8 it seems to again be referring to a person (and is his name): "....and its wingspan will extend across the entire width of your country, Imanu'el !"

Y'shayahu / Isaiah 7:14 says "she shall call his name Immanuel."

Matthew says she (Mary) names him Jesus, but THEY will call him Immanuel.

Whoever "they" might be this is not a fulfillment of Isaiah's prophecy which clearly says SHE (the mother) will name him Immanuel.

This may seem unimportant -- but it turns Matthew's "fulfillment" into a false claim of prophetic fulfillment.

"She" the child's mother names him -- not some unknown "they."

"She" naming him was unusual at the time as fathers normally named their children in those days... If the pregnant woman was Isaiah's wife (as many think) she herself was a prophet... that could explain why the mother was naming her son...

2. There is no prophecy that a virgin will conceive and give birth to a son.

This could be a very, very long discussion as this is a key argument on the part of missionaries.

It is silly, too, because if Jesus WERE a virgin birth he would have no claim to being the messiah.

The messiah must be of the tribe of Judah -- and tribal status is only passed through the biological father impregnating a Jewish woman and thus passing on the tribe. If Jesus was a virgin birth he had no tribe and thus could not be the messiah.

Missionaries insist that the Hebrew הָעַלְמָה ha-al'mah (the young woman) means virgin. There are literally books and websites galore trying to convince people that ha-al'mah (the young woman) means virgin.

The Hebrew word for "virgin" is בתולה / b'tulah.

The Hebrew for "young woman" is עַלְמָה al'mah (the הָ / ha prefix means "the".

Young women may or may not be virgins, and a virgin may or may not be young! The two words are not interchangeable.

The mistranslation to "virgin" seems to stem from the Greek word παρθενος / parthenos which is often (but not always) translated as "virgin."

At one time the Greek word παρθενος / parthenos was used to describe an unmarried woman -- virgin or no virgin. It also did not infer youth (as does the Hebrew word עַלְמָה / al'mah ). The Christian Septuagint / LXX used the word παρθενος / parthenos to speak of refers Dinah in B'reshit / Genesis 34:3, right after she was raped by Shechem and was no longer a virgin.

As far back as the first century of the common era Jews tried to correct Christians on "virgin" in Isaiah 7. Justin Martyr (100 CE, so VERY EARLY Christian) wrote in "Trypho the Jew" that Jews of his era said:

"You (Jews) and your teachers venture to affirm that in the prophecy of Isaiah it is not said, 'Behold, the virgin shall conceive,' but, 'Behold, the young woman shall conceive, and bear a son."

Ergo this debate has gone on nearly since the beginning of Christianity, with Jews trying to correct this Christian translation error and Christians ignoring us.

Since most pagan religions had virgin births the early Christians most likely did not want to be corrected, and with the passage of time many missionaries now believe that Jews "changed" the meaning of the word הָעַלְמָה ha-al'mah (the young woman) -- which is easily shown to be untrue since Hebrew words are based on root words and their is a corresponding word for "young man"!

Still, by focusing on the word ha-al'mah (the young woman) missionaries are obsessing over the wrong word. The focus should be on the next word -- הָרָה harah. It is easy enough to debunk the virgin birth "prophecy" claim of Y'shayahu / Isaiah without focusing on the word הָעַלְמָה ha-al'mah (the young woman).

In Y'shayahu / Isaiah 7:14. הָרָה harah is the adjective "pregnant." (not "will conceive". The words הִנֵּה הָעַלְמָה הָרָה hinneh ha-al'mah harah mean "there [pointing to her] is a pregnant young woman"

Since Isaiah was literally pointing out a pregnant woman to King Ahaz 700 years before Jesus this prophecy has nothing to do with Jesus or the messiah being "born of a virgin." הָעַלְמָה ha-al'mah (the young woman) says nothing about the young woman being a virgin or not being a virgin (although most pregnant women are not virgins).

Leaving , mistranslated as "virgin" (הָעַלְמָה ha-al'mah) untranslated, save for noting that the prefix ha- (which is normally the definite article "the" is being used here with poetic license in the sense of the demonstrative pronoun "that", lending emphasis to "that al'mah over there." In other words Isaiah was pointing to the "al'mah / young woman" as he spoke to King Ahaz.

But although the focus always seems to be on whether or not הָעַלְמָה ha-al'mah means virgin or young woman it is not terribly important in the context of the discussion at hand. Virgins get pregnant all the time (on their wedding night for example, or in Jewish law if she remains "in tact" after sexual relations -- or even if she becomes impregnated without penetration (believe it or not it is possible)...

No, that isn't terribly important -- although "virgin" is most definitely a mistranslation...

What are the important words?

The words in question are הָרָה harah and וְיֹלֶֽדֶת v'yoledet.

In Y'shayahu / Isaiah 7:14. הָרָה harah is the adjective "pregnant." (not "will conceive". The words הִנֵּה הָעַלְמָה הָרָה hinneh ha-al'mah harah mean "there [pointing to her] is a pregnant young woman"

Not "will conceive."

Pregnant.

The word : וְיֹלֶֽדֶת v'yoledet (the fourth word in the prophet's statement) is the feminine singular present participle of the root ילד (to give birth), and means "[she] is giving birth"....

If the woman is about to give birth in front of Ahaz and Isaiah how can this be a prophecy about Jesus who would not be born for another 700 years?

Isaiah is saying literally: "she is about to give birth [at any moment]", and used the present participle just to indicate immediacy. The word after v'yoledet, i.e. בֵּן bén, simply means "a son."

The word in Isaiah 7 is not virgin -- but even if it were "virgin" the prophecy is clearly not about the messiah or Jesus. The woman was giving birth, or very close to it, 700 years before Jesus.

To understand the prophecy of Y'shayahu / Isaiah 7:14 read the chapter starting with the first line. The chapter is a warning to King Ahaz of Judah (who lived 700 years before Jesus). Isaiah tells King Ahaz that he needn't fear the two kings he is worried about.

The prophecy of Y'shayahu / Isaiah 7 is fulfilled in Melachim Beit / II Kings 16.

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You made many point I have to break them one by one and explain them

sonmvayina:



Matthew says she (Mary) names him Jesus, but THEY will call him Immanuel.

Whoever "they" might be this is not a fulfillment of Isaiah's prophecy which clearly says SHE (the mother) will name him Immanuel.

They will call him Emmanuel does not mean the mom will call him Emmanuel as a name

What it means is those who find out who Jesus is is going to call him God

Which you can see that his disciples found it out and called him God

Even us Christians found it out and called him God

So the prophecy was a continuous prophecy

Each generation finds out who Jesus is they call him God

So it full filled each day

For our God the lord Jesus the Messiah is God

I will talk about other places you point out

I know you want to drag us back to the prophecy of virgin Lady who she is thou I have explained to you that before

No problem

I will explain again but know this

This is Jehovah speaking through me to you

Accept Jesus now before it becomes to late

JESUS IS GOD ALMIGHTY

sonmvayina:


Which seed?
Is God a prophet??

Genesis 3:15 ►
And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her Seed; He shall bruise your head, And you shall bruise His heel.

New Living Translation
And I will cause hostility between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring. He will strike your head, and you will strike his heel.”

This is in the Torah this seed here is what God prophecied yes of course God is a prophet

I told you God is all in all

God spoke about who will destroy the devil and the seed(offspring) God was talking about here is the Messiah Jesus

From the beginning God has been saying what will happen in the world in the end of ages

So God is actually more than a prophet too

sonmvayina:



The prophecy in the T'nach (Y'shayahu / Isaiah 7:14) was for King Ahaz who lived 700 years before Jesus -- ergo a prophecy about for him had nothing to do with Jesus, or his birth.

The virgin sign was not for the king and his child

Let study it because it two way prophecy

Isaiah 7

10 Then the Lord spoke again to Ahaz, saying, 11 “Ask a sign for yourself [singular ] from the Lord your God; make it deep as Sheol or high as heaven.”

12 But Ahaz said “I will not ask, nor will I test the Lord!” 13 Then he said “Listen now, O house of David! Is it too slight a thing for you [plural ] to try the patience of men, that you [plural] will try the patience of my God as well?

14 “Therefore the Lord Himself will give you [plural] a sign: Behold, a virgin shall be with child and bear a son, and she will call His name Immanuel. 15 “He will eat curds and honey at the time He knows enough to refuse evil and choose good. 16 “For before the boy will know enough to refuse evil and choose good, the land whose two kings you [singular] dread will be forsaken.

17 The Lord will bring on you [singular], on your people, and on your father’s house such days as have never come since the day that Ephraim separated from Judah, the King of Assyria.”



Some interpret this as being said about Hezekiah, but it is impossible, because, when you count his years, you find that Hezekiah was born nine years before his father’s reign.



In verse 14, the Hebrew word for ‘behold’ is a word which draws attention to an event which could be past, present, or future.

However, grammatically, whenever “behold” is used with the Hebrew present particle, it always refers to a future event. That is the case here. Not only is the birth future, but the very conception is future.

The key point of this should not be missed. God is promising that the House of David cannot be deposed or lose its identity until the birth of a virgin-born son. Again, this requires that Messiah be born prior to the destruction of the temple and its genealogical records in 70AD.

Second sign this one to the king directly

What about Ahaz? There is however a second sign in verses 15-17, and this time is specifically for Ahaz
(Note: from the above passage this portion is in the singular meaning a sign for Ahaz himself as opposed to the sign to the house of David in the plural of verses 13 and 14).

Before Isaiah’s son is old enough to make moral distinctions between right and wrong, the kings of Israel and Syria will be deposed and their threat removed.

This was fulfilled within three years. Isaiah again uses the definitive article before the term “boy”. The boy of verse 16 cannot be the son of verse 14 but refers back to Isaiah’s son in verse 3. Why else was Isaiah commanded to take him?


So you can see it is a two way sign

One future one present

But regardless of your conclusion, it doesn’t change Matthew’s use of the prophecy because the Holy Spirit assures us that the far (ultimate) fulfillment of Isaiah 7 is found in the virgin birth of Jesus. Mary was the foretold virgin through whom God gave Jesus as the sign proving that he would be with his people to save them.

The beauty of been saved by God

No human being can put you in hell