I thought this infi-complex thread ought to be close by now? huh!

Rants of those who lack any bit of objectivity!

Gbawe:

What do some of you gain from this pious pontification that , ultimately , seems like selfish grandstanding? Benazir  Bhutto died for her Country . That type of selflessness is long gone in us Nigerians. All we do , with our intelligence, is to place the onus of nation building at the feet of others. Very convenient. It suits our agenda of being able to criticise from afar without understanding the history of the nations we praise that shows a direct correlation of selfless sacrifice , by the most knowledgeable "good men",  that secures the progress we all envy and use as negative indictment of why "Nigerians are not smart". What a joke i.e the concept some will build a nation for us while we deceive ourselves that the task of Nation building falls on others we can lampoon casually just so we sound intelligent in cyberspaces. Totally comical !!!!

@Gbawe,
Not to disparage anything you're writing, but don't you think you're the one pontificating? Try to wear the hat of the Nigeria-hater for a change. Do they have good grounds for their angst? I think so, since Nigeria has over the years served up sumptuous helpings of suffering and frustration for its people, enough to build up bitterness in many of us.

After many years of abuse and mis-rule, the fact is, the so-called 'self-hate' is nothing but a worn cliche. That's my view. Most Nigerians don't need all the high drama of patriotism, they just want to live a decent life. In a country where the leadership persistently abuse the populace in multiple ways, and turn around to accuse them of not being patriotic, that's laughable really.

I personally am not bitter. But utterly disgusted I am, regarding the state of affairs in this country. We can do a lot better than all of this tough talk. Let's stop trying to invoke patriotism, and let the leaders evoke it by their actions, not by empty words. As Oscar Wilde said 'Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious.' You don't need to accuse people of self-hate. The truth is, they feel Nigeria can do better, and should not celebrate mediocrity. So do I.

^^^

Nobody is denying the fact that Nigeria is not plagued with numerous and serious institutional and systemic problems . .and those problems and challenges occupy most of our topics whenever the name Nigeria is mentioned . .But the attitude of taking a stand that nothing good and nothing worth being proud of has ever come out of Nigeria is utterly despicable . .Imagine the OP, ridiculing himself satisfactorily by sarcastically mentioning rouges as the "smart Nigerians" we have . . Gbawe countered that . .instead of intelligent minds to correct that unprofitable aspersions while making their own views   . .all they did was counter Gbawe instead, which remotely sent a message that the flow of thoughts of mentioning corrupt individuals as the smart ones was indeed in line with their conviction . .Hate Nigeria or Love it . .The best we can do as Citizens is to aspire to correct things obviously identifiable  . . . cos an average Nigeria can identify the challenges that has rendered our country weak and battered . . Your standing afar and castigating Nigeria just for the sake of it,without critically reviewing or acknowledging both the good and the bad, which is not restricted to Nigeria alone amounts to nothing but a malicious attempt to smith the country lamely, . . . . . If the OP feels he is not smart, then he should not generalize his innate feelings to others . .No country has ever had it perfect though with some variance in ability and productivity . . being smart comes in different formats , depends which route you decide to access

Give Nigerians the right atmosphere and see them perform . .  i don't know about the OP 

The fact of the matter is that nigeria as a nation should be a beacon to the entire black world because it has the resources and the manpower which if correctly harnessed should be standing shoulder to shoulder with any of the G8 nations of the world but due to greed, stup.dity, tribalism, selfishness and pure lack of vision continues to be a laughing stock to the rest of the world.

Nigeria should be a place that every african american, carribean or black south american should want to be affiliated with, but we are not and it is totally dishonest to continue to perpetuate the blatant lie that we are something that we are not.

African Americans despite huge odds stacked against them as a result of years of subjugation under the heel of white supremacy STILL managed to carve a niche for themselves and rise above the terrible oppression they were forced to live under for 400 years, notice how despite the huge obstacles they faced they were able to organise, challenge and fight a system which was hell bent on keeping them as second class citizens in their own land, but they were smart enough to understand that individual succcess does not make any difference if an entire system is against you and they therefore got together, organised themselves and forced white supremacist america to dismantle the jim crow system which was destroying the lives of their people.

how about the black south africans who fought and threw off the shackles of apartheid (although the battle is not yet over) to rid themselves of the white supremacist domination they were subjected to - now in our own case what did we acheive - eurocentric education , imported religions and 50 years of the most degenerate and corrupt govt you can ever think of, I therefore continue to ask how after looking at all of this can any sane person still insist that despite our failure to rid ourselves of this cancer we have the nerve to regard ourselves as smart.

Nobody is saying that nothing good has come out of nigeria - what im saying is, it is premature to proclaim how "smart" we are when from all available evidence, we have not used this so called smartness to throw off the shackles of our oppression, until we get to the point where we have done that most basic of tasks - we should not be making such baseless proclamations .

aribisala0 (m)
birmingham
Posts: 833

james ibori

alamiesigha


alao-akala

andy uba

gbenga daniel

aandoaka

And here I thought you were being sarcastic . . . were you not? I thought this was in response to someone posting earlier that SMART Nigerians were the rich ones, including the crooks who swindled others out of their hard earned money. Or did I miss something?

saka gini?i don't know book

Gbawe

We are only ever to be found, as evident on this thread, criticising as if we are somehow dissociated from the problems of Nigeria. Somehow , it is other who are "greedy" and "wicked" - not us. It is easy to prove my point . If most Nigerians commentators on this thread are balanced and objective citizens in the normal sense of the world , as pertains to what obtains worldwide, we would have seen more robust defence of outrightly wrong assertions against Nigeria. Instead all I see is pseudo-intellectual pontification driven by inobjective thinking that has already made up its mind to unpatriotically give Nigeria a bad name to hang it. What others do that Nigerian does not do is now a negative indictment against Nigeria . What Nigeria does that others do not do is also a Negative indictment against Nigeria . How can Nigeria win or even make progress when its own citizens are such inobjective critics of their own Nation?

@Gbawe
I don't think that any fairly well informed Nigerian will be seriously troubled by the original post because a cursory reading of some posts have clearly pointed out to the poster that his assumptions/presumptions and assertions are rather on 'shaky' ground most especially where other groups like the Chinese, Indians and Jews were mentioned in the same breath with Nigerians for no other reason other than for "effect" etc. I clearly stated that it's unfair to do so most especially as the poster have not given us/forum any indication of a good knowledge and grasp of the [b]vastness [/b]of the national history and cultural antecedents of those groups mentioned compared to Nigeria. Hence, my first post began with a rhetorical question to the OP- " are we a nation yet let alone in decline"? etc. I continued to elaborate on how futile it is for us to attempt to deal with such a thorny subject by "painting" the scenario/cultural environment on which so called "smartness" could thrive or not etc. Please, we should not be overly 'touchy' or appear to be more 'patriotic', whatever that means. Nigeria is our collective patrimony we can do whatever we like with her if need be because it's a "work in progress" as most people have acknowledged whether we like it or not. A squabble or two between brothers and sisters in household is healthy and does us no harm . Such thorny discussions or conversations must be welcomed otherwise we become little "dictators" or "fascists" where only sweet, pretty and colourful speeches are heard. It's an indication of intolerance and fascism of ideas. I hope that democracy and freedom of thought is our collective desire. Your freedom to hold dissenting views/opinions must be respected and welcomed and nobody should feel denigrated and slapped down unjustly. As Africans we have always been humane to even our detractors.

jmaine:

^^^

Nobody is denying the fact that Nigeria is not plagued with numerous and serious institutional and systemic problems . .and those problems and challenges occupy most of our topics whenever the name Nigeria is mentioned . .But the attitude of taking a stand that nothing good and nothing worth being proud of has ever come out of Nigeria is utterly despicable . .Imagine the OP, ridiculing himself satisfactorily by sarcastically mentioning rouges as the "smart Nigerians" we have . . Gbawe countered that . .instead of intelligent minds to correct that unprofitable aspersions while making their own views   . .all they did was counter Gbawe instead, which remotely sent a message that the flow of thoughts of mentioning corrupt individuals as the smart ones was indeed in line with their conviction . .Hate Nigeria or Love it . .The best we can do as Citizens is to aspire to correct things obviously identifiable  . . . cos an average Nigeria can identify the challenges that has rendered our country weak and battered . . Your standing afar and castigating Nigeria just for the sake of it,without critically reviewing or acknowledging both the good and the bad, which is not restricted to Nigeria alone amounts to nothing but a malicious attempt to smith the country lamely, . . . . . If the OP feels he is not smart, then he should not generalize his innate feelings to others . .No country has ever had it perfect though with some variance in ability and productivity . . being smart comes in different formats , depends which route you decide to access

Give Nigerians the right atmosphere and see them perform . .  i don't know about the OP 

Thank you !!! I don't even have the time or inclination to reply to others on this thread who should be burning their Nigerian passports rather than boring us with their self-hating rants. Why not simply reject Nigeria fully so you can become an American or a Slovakian? Why are some folks[b] on a Nigerian website[/b] , out of sheer ignorance,  speaking with zero objectivity about their nation? Is this the norm in any Nation on Earth?

Gbawe, o ti to oo

Let it slide

ola olabiy:

Gbawe, o ti to oo

Let it slide

Let what slide ? So folks who don't know how to have pride in their nation , in good and bad times , carry the day? Abeg go siddon. I aint playing here.

Gbawe:

Let what slide ? So folks who don't know how to have pride in their nation , in good and bad times , carry the day? Abeg go siddon. I aint playing here.

Ok sir. I don siddon oo

obviously you are a man uncomfortable in his own skin battling personal demons.

you need an enemy to make your inconsequential life meaningful.
like the little boy in the play ground who defecates on the ground or simulates a faint to get attention-you got attention now what are going to do with it.

our premise is a simple own,easily comprehended by those possessed of rational minds;whatever nigerians may be achieving individually it does not justify the noise with which we are constantly assailed.

for you to seize upon that as an opportunity to position yourself as more patriotic than anyone else is a measure of your idleness.

you are obviously determined to open a front for polemic exchange to give your life meaning. variety of ideas is what life is about so learn to live with others and learn how to disagree civilly.

your shrill egotistical outbursts are quite pitiable and reveal the mental disharmony of an unfulfilled nebbish

AjanleKoko:

@Gbawe,
Not to disparage anything you're writing, but don't you think you're the one pontificating? Try to wear the hat of the Nigeria-hater for a change. Do they have good grounds for their angst? I think so, since Nigeria has over the years served up sumptuous helpings of suffering and frustration for its people, enough to build up bitterness in many of us.

After many years of abuse and mis-rule, the fact is, the so-called 'self-hate' is nothing but a worn cliche. That's my view. Most Nigerians don't need all the high drama of patriotism, they just want to live a decent life. In a country where the leadership persistently abuse the populace in multiple ways, and turn around to accuse them of not being patriotic, that's laughable really.

I personally am not bitter. But utterly disgusted I am, regarding the state of affairs in this country. We can do a lot better than all of this tough talk. Let's stop trying to invoke patriotism, and let the leaders evoke it by their actions, not by empty words. As Oscar Wilde said 'Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious.' You don't need to accuse people of self-hate. The truth is, they feel Nigeria can do better, and should not celebrate mediocrity. So do I.

Me pontificating? In so far as ostensibly intelligent folks like you failed to challenge how others used outrightly false premises to malign[b] your own nation [/b] then I think your argument is null and void. Debates that throw up empirically tested  logic (as such seen in the drafting of the constitutions of Nations) relies on consistent adherence to facts.   There is no allowance, if the mission is sincere solution provision, for arguing our corner while we deliberately ignore wholesale falsehood. My brother, that is intellectual dishonesty. Pure and simple.

@Gbawe

Listen - if I criticise my son, does that mean I hate him (or hate myself) ? Suppose I go further and criticise him quite harshly - it might simply mean that his behaviour has really hurt me and perhaps brought shame on both of us. Why would I care if other people are not crticising their own sons? I accept that many people have thin skins and cannot accept criticisms, but we must continue to be vocal in our opposition to failure. I continue to believe that the real failure is that we the people don't often pour into the streets and let these criminals know that we can do better than type. Like Fela said, "my people sef too dey fear".

Gbawe:

And you are exposed as an ignorant person not even able to[b] intellectually defend what you say[/b]. The problem people like you will always have is that you simply do not understand that others , perhaps because they actually prefer to be[b] involved[/b] players rather than spectators, have a far better grasp of issues than you can ever have. You don't do yourself any favour with how you come into a debate with so much bias when , in reality, it is obvious you don't have much knowledge beyond your Birmingham Tesco !!!!

What is si intellectual about the crap you've writing.

You are no where as informed as you think you are.

What a waste of Oxford's Affirmative Action spot!

attention seeker meet attention giver. now you've made his day

Gbawe:

And you are exposed as an ignorant person not even able to intellectually defend what you say. The problem people like you will always have is that you simply do not understand that others , perhaps because they actually prefer to be[b] involved[/b]  players rather than spectators, have a far better grasp of issues than you can ever have. You don't do yourself any favour with how you come into a debate with so much bias when , in reality, it is obvious you don't have much knowledge beyond your Birmingham Tesco !!!!   

You are only talking this way to save face.  After all, it is not as if we dont know that your brother is part of the legion of incompetent people (who think they are smart) running this country?

We cant continue to accept the status quo, and the only way to move forward is to remove people like your brother and his cohorts from positions of authority. Come live a day in the shoes of people like me, the OP, kobojunkie, Ajanlekoko et al and see if you would not change your tune. I am not surprised at your slant though, empathy and incompetence/baseless ego dont always go together.

Where did you get the money to go to school abroad? Maybe we should start from there?

Instead of you to objectively look at issues, analyse neutrally, and conclude as would a sentimentally unattached observer would, you have chosen to take the low road, rambunctiously denigrating everyone who dare speak truth to power. I'm sure you've read this quote before: "The unexamined life is not worth living." Socrates, the wisest man in ancient Greece, said that at his trial for heresy. That is, to make progress, we have to look inward and analyse our defects, in the hopes of correcting them and moving forward confidently. And the OP, patriotically, has started the discussion in that direction.

@Gbawe: why bother?

qui cum canibus concumbunt cum pulicibus surgent.

aribisala0:

attention seeker  meet attention giver. now you've made his day

The only attention seeker I see here is you. Afterall, you started this thread that shamelessly pays homage to attention seeking !!!! I am acting like a[b] normal[/b] citizen of Nigeria but I would not expect you and your ilk to understand that since you loathe everything about your Nation and fellow Nigerians. Folks like you are just shameless. I never asked any of you not to criticise Nigeria. I only wanted you to do so fairly. Obviously , self-hatred led  to the foolish examples you give as indication of how Nigerians are not "smart". You are simply too obdurate to accept you are wrong and move on. As for zstranger/wizardofoz/fstranger , he is simply a deranged lunatic not worth responding to. Sane and upright folks don't create multiple ID's for the purpose of talking confused gibberish.

Ystranger:


You are only talking this way to save face.  After all, it is not as if we dont know that your brother is part of the legion of incompetent people (who think they are smart) running this country?

We cant continue to accept the status quo, and the only way to move forward is to remove people like your brother and his cohorts from positions of authority. Come live a day in the shoes of people like me, the OP, kobojunkie, Ajanlekoko et al and see if you would not change your tune. I am not surprised at your slant though, empathy and incompetence/baseless ego dont always go together.

Where did you get the money to go to school abroad? Maybe we should start from there?

Instead of you to objectively look at issues, analyse neutrally, and conclude as would a sentimentally unattached observer would, you have chosen to take the low road, rambunctiously denigrating everyone who dare speak truth to power. I'm sure you've read this quote before: "The unexamined life is not worth living." Socrates, the wisest man in ancient Greece, said that at his trial for heresy. That is, to make progress, we have to look inward and analyse our defects, in the hopes of correcting them and moving forward confidently. And the OP, patriotically, has started the discussion in that direction.

Tell me more, please. Is Gbawe's brother a politician? A popular one?

Gbawe, talk now. Talk.

ola olabiy:

Tell me more, please. Is Gbawe's brother a politician? A popular one?

Gbawe, talk now. Talk.

Interesting development.
We're all watching with keen attention. Should that be the case, then no need to proceed further

ola olabiy:

Tell me more, please. Is Gbawe's brother a politician? A popular one?

Gbawe, talk now. Talk.

Professor of English: Tell this guy to not use Oyinbo dabaru us now. Call him to order.

Gbawe:

The only attention seeker I see here is you. Afterall, you started this thread that shamelessly pays homage to attention seeking !!!! I am acting like a[b] normal[/b] citizen of Nigeria but I would not expect you and your ilk to understand that since you loathe everything about your Nation and fellow Nigerians. Folks like you are just shameless. I never asked any of you not to criticise Nigeria. I only wanted you to do so fairly. Obviously , self-hatred led  to the foolish examples you give as indication of how Nigerians are not "smart". You are simply too obdurate to accept you are wrong and move on. As for zstranger/wizardofoz/fstranger , he is simply a [s]deranged lunatic[/s] not worth responding to. Sane and upright folks don't create multiple ID's for the purpose of talking confused gibberish.

Deranged: behaving in an uncontrolled or dangerous way because of mental illness

Lunatic: an offensive word for a person  behaving in an uncontrolled or dangerous manner because of mental illness


You cant even sanely control yourself from using the same word (different versions) twice and you want us to believe you are normal.

I can see you have toned down your rhetoric a bit. Dont forget that, ki gbo gbo soro soro lo mo pe, there are some people with the skills to listen, the patience to calculate, and the wherewithal to reply at the right moment!

aletheia:

@Gbawe: why bother?

qui come canibus concumbunt come pulicibus surgent.

My brother , now and then , one has to educate these self-hating and very ignorant Nigerians who only know how to peddle outright lies in cyberspace simply because they wish to give Nigeria a bad name to hang her. The OP started this thread for one purpose only . He wants it to be a congregation ground for Nigerians who do not even bother to talk objectively about their own Nation any more. He wants the presence of Nigerians , in this thread, who will just accept his wholesale misconceptions while adding their own all in a huge bi.tchfest against Nigeria and Nigerians .

Imagine the type of ignorance that leads some folks to conclude that Nigerians are not "smart" because Nigerian yam is not next to Ghanaian yam in his local UK supermarket? Yet the same chap is ignorant of the huge penetration of Nigerian businesses and even popular culture in Ghana and other African Nation he loves to praise shamelessly.

Ystranger:

Professor of English: Tell this guy to not use Oyinbo dabaru us now. Call him to order.

Deranged: behaving in an uncontrolled or dangerous way because of mental illness

Lunatic: an offensive word for a person  behaving in an uncontrolled or dangerous manner because of mental illness


You cant even sanely control yourself from using the same word twice and you want us to believe you are normal.

I can see you have toned down your rhetoric a bit. Dont forget that, ki gbo gbo soro soro lo mo pe, there are some people with the skills to listen, the patience to calculate, and the wherewithal to reply at the right moment!

Abeg, tell me more jare. I wan no Gbawe welu welu.
E be like sey you know am well

AjanleKoko:

Interesting development.
We're all watching with keen attention. Should that be the case, then no need to proceed further

More than interesting, bro.

Gbawe, please, talk jare.

ola olabiy:

Abeg, tell me more jare. I wan no Gbawe welu welu.
E be like sey you know am well

Gbawe:

My brother , you are most certainly welcomed . My uncle is now an ACN senator . He never had to prostrate for Tinubu. He did not take any oath and he was certainly not coerced into pledging blind allegiance to Tinubu. Folks can continue to spread their horror stories that is not at all based on facts . Fola Adeola attested to this when he said that no one is focused on Tinubu at ACN meetings .

I just don't understand how we Nigerian constantly and  regularly allude to a need to see Jesus-like virtues in our administrators when , for now , our Nation is far from a testimony to the most desirable virtues to be found in humanity. We have to manage what we have , currently, to gain progress and development . It is those who pragmatically understand that concept who contribute to our march towards a brighter future.

This and I think he mentioned his brother or another relative sometime on another thread ( will dig it up when I am less busy) also working for the Lagos State government, some padi padi thing like that. I dont mean to cause any embarrassment. I just think he is being disingenuous, for the sake of full disclosure.

some people are anxious if they are not the centre of attention.

fact of life.

they need to be important .

why? well that is not what this thread is about so ignore them


i will try again,

many nigerians i meet in my life boast about how smart nigerians are. in partciular they take great delight in denigrating other african groups. especial targets of these attacks are ghanaians and south africans.

is this justified?

are we really that smart?

Ystranger:




This and I think he mentioned his brother or another relative sometime on another thread ( will dig it up when I am less busy) also working for the Lagos State Governor. I dont mean to cause any embarrassment. I just think he is being disingenuous, for the sake of full disclosure.

Highly disappointing. One would have thought you , rabid as you are, to be above this level of petty mischief. I have family members in Nigerian politics but it is shameful you wants to use that to establish a correlation to anything else when you don't even know who they are and their history .

You are one of those who ensure lines of communication , between those who lead and those they lead, are non-existent. I don't know how any Nigerian politician can come to dialogue sincerely with folks here while the primitive witch hunting , even amongst the most intelligent members of the forum, is this palpable.

It is folks like you who want a summary execution for all Nigerian politician and their family members who prove my very point on this thread i.e that most of you operate with very toxic bias. What you write here is totally disgraceful and an example of the prejudice and bias that means most of you should simply leave Nigeria be:

After all, it is not as if we dont know that[b] your brother is part of the legion of incompetent people [/b](who think they are smart) running this country?

Why dont you get involved since you are so virtuous and every Politician is "incompetent" in the Kangaroo Court of your mind ? You talk like the child parents do not ever take anywhere because they can never expect that child to talk reasonably or sensibly.

hmm interesting - if its true that Gbawe's relative really is a nigerian politician then that explains his defensive ranting - this is the problem we have in this so called nation we call nigeria - selfishness - as long as our own families are reaping where they did not sow everyone else can go to hell.

What we need in nigeria is mass incarceration and executions of all these criminals who are responsible for perpetuating the misery and suffering that many of our people are currently being subjected to, Gbawe you can rant all you like  but the fact of the matter is the people who have been misruling this nation for the past 51 years are a complete and utter disgrace and insult to the intelligence of all nigerians, these glorified thugs loot and plunder the nations coffers and treat the nigerian populace with na.ked contempt - why? because we are still too docile to understand that until we take matters into our own hands and rid ourselves of these parasites we will forever remain slaves in our own land.

aribisala0:

some people are anxious if they are not the centre of attention.

fact of life.

they need to be important .

why? well that is not what this thread is about so  ignore them


i will try again,

many nigerians i meet in my life boast about how smart nigerians are. in partciular they take great delight in denigrating other african groups. especial targets of these attacks are ghanaians and south africans.

is this justified?

are we really that smart?

You now want to pretend to be reasonable after all the self-hating and intellectually deficient misconception you bandied about just to give a dog (Nigeria) a bad name to hang it? Very funny !!!

What happened to your argument that Nigerians are not smart because a Lebanese person owns a Restaurant at a Nigerian Airport?

Have you forgotten how you postulated that Nigerians are not smart because you went to your local Tesco and found products from Ghana and non from Nigeria? While at your local Tesco , did you not look to see if Canadian products were absent so you can use the same inane theory you applied to Nigeria to conclude that Canadians are not smart? Shior .

cap28:

hmm interesting - if its true that Gbawe's relative really is a nigerian politician then that explains his defensive ranting - this is the problem we have in this so called nation we call nigeria - selfishness - as long as our own families are reaping where they did not sow everyone else can go to hell.

What we need in nigeria is mass incarceration and executions of all these criminals who are responsible for perpetuating the misery and suffering that many of our people are currently being subjected to, Gbawe you can rant all you like  but the fact of the matter is the people who have been misruling this nation for the past 51 years are a complete and utter disgrace and insult to the intelligence of all nigerians, these glorified thugs loot and plunder the nations coffers and treat the nigerian populace with na.ked contempt - why? because we are still too docile to understand that until we take matters into our own hands and rid ourselves of these parasites we will forever remain slaves in our own land.

Who will do this for you? Why not come to Nigeria to lead the execution squad that will achieve what you want ? Why not leave the UK and come to Nigeria to lead by example as others are doing? Some of you are simply stuck in the past and have been out of Nigeria for far too long . We are gradually seeing the good guys getting involved in Nigerian politics more. That is the truth. Whether you wan't to believe that or not is your own problem.

WOW . . . .