saxywale:

He is the Aarole Oòdua, the Oòni of Ife is counted first among Yoruba kings. Ooni Adelekan Olubuse was the first Ooni to travel outside Ile-Ife to Lagos in 1903 when he was invited by the then Governor General to settle the dispute involving Elepe of Epe. All Yoruba Kings including the Alaafin left their respective thrones as a mark of respect for the Ooni. They returned to their respective stools after Ooni returned to Ile-Ife from Lagos.

What's your source of this story please?

In addition, were they all seated at the location before he (the Ooni) came in and they all stood up and did not return to their seats until he had returned to Ife? Or they left their thrones and travelled to Lagos as well and returned later to their stools only after the Ooni had returned to Ife from Lagos?

Disagree katsumoto. The other Yoruba kingdoms fought Oyo to become independent states due to Oyo over reaching. Let me be the first to remind you that Kurunmi of Ijaye was Aare, subject to Alaafin (Atiba until the he decided that his son Adelu must succeed him against tradition). And Basorun Ogunmola and to an extent Ibikunle who defeated Kurunmi were also under Oyo despite being from Ibadan a separate kingdom from Oyo.

naijababe:

Disagree katsumoto. The other Yoruba kingdoms fought Oyo to become independent states due to Oyo over reaching. Let me be the first to remind you that Kurunmi of Ijaye was Aare, subject to Alaafin (Atiba until the he decided that his son Adelu must succeed him against tradition). And Basorun Ogunmola and to an extent Ibikunle who defeated Kurunmi were also under Oyo despite being from Ibadan a separate kingdom from Oyo.

lol

By the time Ibadan defeated Kurunmi, it had already become an independent state even though it didnt have royalty. When Ibadan started expanding, was it expanding because Oyo wanted it to do so? I am sure you know that's not true. Was Ibadan also fighting on Oyo's behalf when it was engaged in the Kiriji wars? We know that not to be true.

This is the view of eminent yoruba historians such as Professor Akinjogbin, Prof Awe, Ade-Ajayi.

Whether it was due to Oyo over reaching or not, the fact is that they fought and won independence from Oyo. Why should I respect you if u can no longer beat me? On what grounds does Oyo give a title over lands over which it has no control?

Katsumoto, why your hatred for the Alaafin, are you saying it is the Ooni that can confer title of Yorubaland instead? Alaafin is the number one king in Yorubaland. Fact.

baksonlee:

Katsumoto, why your hatred for the Alaafin, are you saying it is the Ooni that can confer title of Yorubaland instead? Alaafin is the number one king in Yorubaland. Fact.

I have no hatred for the Alaafin but he does not have control over any part of Yorubaland except Oyo.

None of them can give a title over Yorubaland because Yorubaland is not under any of their control. However, the Ooni is the spiritual head of the Yoruba.

The Oni of Ife is a confirmed PDP supporter. He fought ACN to a stand still, He even won election for Omisore while in jail. Ife Ibadan road especially the side constructed by a company with Oni intrest is the worst in the state.

Tinubu does not need any title to show good leadership.

I like the discussions so far on the forum(very informative) at least it has been devoid of serious insults so far and i hope it stays that way. i would just like to put in my own 2kobo. Agreed Yorubaland as a word was an afterthought of the british colonialisation we got but we mustnt forget that Yorubaland as an idea is not. I personally would say i am a member of the Yoruba race because i speak Yoruba and i come from Ibadan, the culture and way of life of most Yoruba towns are quite similar in so many ways. i would say Yorubaland or race exists whether geographically or as an idea looking at it from the Nigerian context and of course unless we want to start another Kiriji or Ekiti parapo war amongst ourselves it would be sensible if we all recognise that though Ekiti might speak its own version of Yoruba and the Ijeshas have their own we are all still a part of the Yoruba race. That all the Obas we have now are of little or no relevance i will have to put the blame on the colonial masters and the indigenous leaders that came after them. That said i quite agree that most titles given especially by the Alaafin in precolonial days had significance throughout Yorubaland(at least the Aare Ona Kakanfo was recognised as the Oyo empires Generallismo in most Yoruba towns them) might not be of relevance nowadays due to each Yoruba entity identifying with their own monarchs and not Alaafin.
@ Katsumoto Can you clarify what you mean by Ooni is the spiritual head of the Yorubas.

exactly what does spiritual head mean
he is not spiritual head to ijebus all yoruba speaking kingdoms exist autonomously and some NOTall have only come under political control of oyo by force. it is important to distinguish kings from people.
because many kings were puppets of oyo they trace ancestry to ife/oyo just like fulani kings rule hausas. however all evidence indicates that oduduwa cannot have lived more than a few centuries ago and there is clear evidence of yoruba existence for millenia and indeed of peoples who are autochthons having no relation to oduduwa.

a dynastic tale akin to the descendants of gaddafi or abacha claiming to have founded libya/nigeria and then forcedly taught with religious fervor to illiterate generations until it is shameful to have no links to ife/oduduwa.

useful for self respec--we need to come from somewhere but puleease.

think

Katsumoto:

lol

By the time Ibadan defeated Kurunmi, it had already become an independent state even though it didnt have royalty. When Ibadan started expanding, was it expanding because Oyo wanted it to do so? I am sure you know that's not true. Was Ibadan also fighting on Oyo's behalf when it was engaged in the Kiriji wars? We know that not to be true.

This is the view of eminent yoruba historians such as Professor Akinjogbin, Prof Awe, Ade-Ajayi.

Whether it was due to Oyo over reaching or not, the fact is that they fought and won independence from Oyo. Why should I respect you if u can no longer beat me? On what grounds does Oyo give a title over lands over which it has no control?

Yes Ibadan was already an independent state, same way Ijaye could also be regarded as an independent state. The fact remains that most of the other kingdoms were once under Oyo before the internal civil wars which resulted in other states becoming independent.

That the US is no longer in the commonwealth does not change the fact that it was once under the British crown. The fact remains that the title of Aare which can only be conferred by the Alaafin is one all Yorubas to date recognise.

kq:

I like the discussions so far on the forum(very informative) at least it has been devoid of serious insults so far and i hope it stays that way. i would just like to put in my own 2kobo. Agreed Yorubaland as a word was an afterthought of the british colonialisation we got but we mustnt forget that Yorubaland as an idea is not. I personally would say i am a member of the Yoruba race because i speak Yoruba and i come from Ibadan, the culture and way of life of most Yoruba towns are quite similar in so many ways. i would say Yorubaland or race exists whether geographically or as an idea looking at it from the Nigerian context and of course unless we want to start another Kiriji or Ekiti parapo war amongst ourselves it would be sensible if we all recognise that though Ekiti might speak its own version of Yoruba and the Ijeshas have their own we are all still a part of the Yoruba race. That all the Obas we have now are of little or no relevance i will have to put the blame on the colonial masters and the indigenous leaders that came after them. That said i quite agree that most titles given especially by the Alaafin in precolonial days had significance throughout Yorubaland(at least the Aare Ona Kakanfo was recognised as the Oyo empires Generallismo in most Yoruba towns them) might not be of relevance nowadays due to each Yoruba entity identifying with their own monarchs and not Alaafin.
@ Katsumoto Can you clarify what you mean by Ooni is the spiritual head of the Yorubas.

Orunmila baba Agboniregun
Agboniregun baba Ifa

According to some oral traditions, Oduduwa met Agboniregun (also known as Setilu) at Ile Ife. If we accept that Orunmila is the progenitor of the Yoruba people and Oduduwa with his sons created the original 16 Yoruba kingdoms. Odudwa was also the first Ooni. It is on this basis that I refer to Ooni as the spiritual head.

naijababe:

Yes Ibadan was already an independent state, same way Ijaye could also be regarded as an independent state. The fact remains that most of the other kingdoms were once under Oyo before the internal civil wars which resulted in other states becoming independent.

That the US is no longer in the commonwealth does not change the fact that it was once under the British crown. The fact remains that the title of Aare which can only be conferred by the Alaafin is one all Yorubas to date recognise.

I am not disputing that the Alaafin can confer the title Aare ona Kakanfo. What I am saying is that the title, today, holds only over Oyo because the other kingdoms WON independence from Oyo. So the king can only confer a title on lands over which he HOLDS sway and not over which he HELD.

@ Kasumoto
The earlier you accept the fact of yoruba history the better for you. If there is any title that has the appelation Yorubaland, there is only one king that can confer that title on any person, and that person is Aalafin - the "Iku Baba Yeye" Alase e keji orisa (net to the gods). You see, by distorting history the way you re doing it is just to refresh people's memory.

Let me ask you a question, why do you think evey other Oba in Yorubaland has never contested that headship of yoruba traditional paramount ruler with Aalafin? Do you think they don't know history? Let face the reality of our history, Ooni is far far away from Aalafin in status.

If you remeber, when Osun state was not yet created, Aalafin was the permanent chairman of the paramount rulers in old Oyo state untill when Ooni started challenging that permanent chairmanship, the struggle was so much that during state creation under the military Ooni and other agitated for a separate state.


The question is while does it take Ooni so long to realise that he can lay claim to yoruba traditional headship? My brother the truth must be told, in yoruba history and tradition, Aalafin has no  equal in status and royalty.

we are not going anywhere with this black thought. asiwaju of yorubaland, what for? in this present generation.

^^^^That is not even the aspect of this that bothers me the most.

[size=27pt]<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< BACK TO THE TOPIC! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>[/size]

[size=21pt]Make Tinubu The Asiwaju Of Yorubaland[/size]

[size=13pt]Is the fact that femi otedola's father and Wale Tinubus Uncle a govenor of lagos the reason they both make hundreds of millions of dollars in the energy markets?
Is it right that the Asiwaju awon eyan yoruba should be the main beneficiary of its biggest tax collection firm?
what is the leadership selection process of ACN?
Why is it that The Alaafin and The Ooni are not offering the title to him? If he was such a great leader he would be begged to accept such a title.
Why are there constant allegations of corruption against Tinubu?
Why has his wife entered politics at the highest level after being a housewife for years?
What is the criteria for an Asiwaju of Yorubaland?[/size]

aribisala0:

exactly what does spiritual head mean
he is not spiritual head to ijebus all yoruba speaking kingdoms exist autonomously and some NOTall have only come under political control of oyo by force. it is important to distinguish kings from people.
because many kings were puppets of oyo they trace ancestry to ife/oyo just like fulani kings rule hausas. however all evidence indicates that oduduwa cannot have lived more than a few centuries ago and there is clear evidence of yoruba existence for millenia and indeed of peoples who are autochthons having no relation to oduduwa.

a dynastic tale akin to the descendants of gaddafi or abacha claiming to have founded libya/nigeria and then forcedly taught with religious fervor to illiterate generations until it is shameful to have no links to ife/oduduwa.

useful for self respec--we need to come from somewhere but puleease.

think

I think recent historical research already concludes that maybe Orunmila or even Obatala is the true progenitor of the Yorubas, but you can discount Oduduwa's role in expanding the Yoruba kingdom

What I am saying is that the title, today, holds only over Oyo because the other kingdoms WON independence from Oyo

this is very wrong.


katsumoto, you have a rather weird view of yoruba history.

kindly do not go off the deep end over this comment because i'm tired of people taking offence at every little remark as if they lack the basics of civilized conversation.

@ topiv

aare ona kakanfo is a dangerous title which few nominees survive.

it's like that white elephant thing.


na so e go just activate all the ancestral enemies wey dey live jejely undercover before.

if offered, can the person refuse it?

tpia@:

this is very wrong.


katsumoto, you have a rather weird view of yoruba history.

kindly do not go off the deep end over this comment because i'm tired of people taking offence at every little remark as if they lack the basics of civilized conversation.

You stated that my post is very wrong without offering your own position. Did Other kingdoms not fight Oyo to gain independence from Oyo? I am waiting for your position.

I engage many people on different subjects; my tone is mostly civilised even when the other party isn't there was no need to make reference to that. Just state your opinion.

tpia@:

@ topiv

aare ona kakanfo is a dangerous title which few nominees survive.

it's like that white elephant thing.


na so e go just activate all the ancestral enemies wey dey live jejely undercover before.

if offered, can the person refuse it?

. Last I heard Obasanjo lobbied Alaafin for the title which means either does not believe in the ancestral enemies or he is suicidal

^^did he?

i guess he doesnt fear no ancestral enemies whether undercover or in plain view.

Katsumoto:

You stated that my post is very wrong without offering your own position. Did Other kingdoms not fight Oyo to gain independence from Oyo? I am waiting for your position.

I engage many people on different subjects; my tone is mostly civilised even when the other party isn't there was no need to make reference to that. Just state your opinion.

certain things do not depend on people's opinion.

there is no such  thing as a true progenitor all DNA evidence contradicts this.
i believe this is a fixation with adam and eve theories.

2muchlogic:

   [size=27pt]<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< BACK TO THE TOPIC! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>[/size]

[size=21pt]Make Tinubu The Asiwaju Of Yorubaland[/size]

[size=13pt]Is the fact that femi otedola's father and Wale Tinubus Uncle a govenor of lagos the reason they both make hundreds of millions of dollars in the energy markets?
Is it right that the Asiwaju awon eyan yoruba should be the main beneficiary of its biggest tax collection firm?
what is the leadership selection process of ACN?
Why is it that The Alaafin and The Ooni are not offering the title to him? If he was such a great leader he would be begged to accept such a title.
Why are there constant allegations of corruption against Tinubu?
Why has his wife entered politics at the highest level after being a housewife for years?
What is the criteria for an Asiwaju of Yorubaland?[/size]

I simply do not understand why people would rather cut their nose off to spite their face   Okay Tinubu is a terrible man, he's corrupt and he foisted his crony on Lagos. Please tell me if the same achievements of his 'crony' are now so negligible that Tinubu should now be cast as enemy number one given that the opposition from Oyo to Ogun to Ekiti to Lagos were abysmal failures. Given the choice, I'd choose a 'crony' of Tinubu over the opposition as evidently recorded in recent elections.

So his wife has no right to vie for office because she was once a housewife? I don't follow; please explain.

naijababe:

[size=18pt]Okay Tinubu is a terrible man, he's corrupt and he foisted his crony on Lagos[/size]. Please tell me if the same achievements of his 'crony' are now so negligible that Tinubu should now be cast as enemy number one given that the opposition from Oyo to Ogun to Ekiti to Lagos were abysmal failures. Given the choice, [size=18pt]I'd choose a 'crony' of Tinubu over the opposition[/size] as evidently recorded in recent elections.

thats what you call honesty, I think the short-comings of your views are obvious

naijababe:

So his wife has no right to vie for office because she was once a housewife? I don't follow; please explain.

No, I asked for an explanation why she made such a decision and what made her the best candidate, do you think if she was not ms Tinubu she would win?

But to be honset, in typical NL fashion you have skipped my question and cherry picked a few so i will re-list them later

naijababe:

. Last I heard Obasanjo lobbied Alaafin for the title which means either does not believe in the ancestral enemies or he is suicidal

Maybe, but we won't give him the rope. Even Osama's Matyrs sometimes make their own bombs.

aribisala0:

there is no such  thing as a true progenitor all DNA evidence contradicts this.
i believe this is a fixation with adam and eve theories.

What DNA evidence are you referring to? Please explain how Yoruba people came to be and how they found themselves in the SW part of Nigeria.

I have a few questions, which will help us clarify whether Mr Tinubu is the  Asiwaju of Yorubaland:

(eni) Is the fact that femi otedola's father and Wale Tinubus Uncle a govenor of lagos the reason
they both make hundreds of millions of dollars in the energy markets?

(eji) Is it right that the Asiwaju awon eyan yoruba should be the main beneficiary of its biggest
tax collection firm?

(eta) what is the leadership selection process of ACN?

(erin) Why is it that The Alaafin and The Ooni are not offering the title to him? If he was such a great leader he would be begged to accept such a title.

(arun) Why are there constant allegations of corruption against Tinubu?

(efa) Why has his wife entered politics at the highest level after being a housewife for years?

(eje) What is the criteria for an Asiwaju of Yorubaland?

2muchlogic:

  I have a few questions, which will help us clarify whether Mr Tinubu is fit to be the  Asiwaju of Yorubaland:

(eni) Is the fact that femi otedola's father and Wale Tinubus Uncle a govenor of lagos the reason
they both make hundreds of millions of dollars in the energy markets?

(eji) Is it right that the Asiwaju awon eyan yoruba should be the main beneficiary of its biggest
tax collection firm?

(eta) what is the leadership selection process of ACN?

(erin) Why is it that The Alaafin and The Ooni are not offering the title to him? If he was such a

(arun) great leader he would be begged to accept such a title.

(efa) Why are there constant allegations of corruption against Tinubu?

(eje) Why has his wife entered politics at the highest level after being a housewife for years?

(ejo) What is the criteria for an Asiwaju of Yorubaland?

Imagine. Ashiwaju of Yorubaland ko, When he bought the Ashiwaju of Lagos title. Also you forgot to ask what he did for Lagos when he was governor? He needs to be probed and jailed seriously. 20 years!

2muchlogic:

thats what you call honesty, I think the short-comings of your views are obvious

No, I asked for an explanation why she made such a decision and what made her the best candidate, do you think if she was not ms Tinubu she would win?

But to be honset, in typical NL fashion you have skipped my question and cherry picked a few so i will re-list them later

You are a funny man  . My point is ' who would you rather have as Asiwaju ?' I am not a fan of Tinubu either but current political machinations in Nigeria requires a man like Tinubu.

As for your question on Remi Tinubu; that answer to that we'll never know because the ACN flag was enough to win in other parts of the SW, so who's to say she wouldn't have won just by virtue of being a member of ACN

The family of the Keneddies have been contesting elections ever since and been winning

Bill Clintons wife contested for the Democratic ticket and George H Bush sons were President and Governor of Florida

I ask whats wrong with Tinubus wife being Senator?

dayokanu:

The family of the Keneddies have been contesting elections ever since and been winning

Bill Clintons wife contested for the Democratic ticket and George H Bush sons were President and Governor of Florida

I ask whats wrong with Tinubus wife being Senator?

tinubu for president 2015 the aare ona kakanfo of yoruba land

naijababe:

You are a funny man  . My point is ' who would you rather  have as Asiwaju ?'

Scrap the titles, the system is rotten; we need to elect ethical politicians and if they do not perform - bye, bye.  

The Alaafin, the Ooni, and the Obas should do their job of protecting and promoting Yoruba culture, which in turn will promote tourism – they need to stay out of politics.  As Yoruba people we need to move forward and start encouraging worldclass leadership, based on meritocracy, without interference from people who have power due to their birth.