Of all the forms of government manknd has conceived and applied; which form do we think would be most in line with the divine will? Or for those who might not believe in divinity, let us rephrase the question. Which form or method of human government is most reflective of a higher spiritual order for society?

Democracy? Vox Populi vox dei. . . the voice of the people is the voice of God?

An absolute mornachy? . . .The king is anointed of God. . . ?

A Constitutional Mornachy. . . the King is anointed of God but the voice of the people is the voice of God?

A Theocracy?. . . Government by divine guidance. . . such as government based on the tenets of a given Religion. . . think Saudi Arabia?

What about Plato's ideal state, governed by an aristocracy of philosopher kings? -

http://www.suite101.com/content/platos-ideal-state--plato-and-the-aristocratic-government-a278155

What do you think?

@Deepsight.
This is very interesting; it’s high time we started dealing with these issues, it hinges on the establishment of the Kingdom of God on earth.

The problem with all the forms of government that you mentioned can be found in your statement, “Of all the forms of government mankind has conceived ….” The problem lies in mankind conceiving or thinking out these forms of government. Everything that is "thought-out” or everything that originates from the intellect alone will never suffice to deal with the human condition. Because humans have needs that goes far beyond the realm of operation of the intellect.

Every work of the intellect, not directed by the spiritual intuition, bears the one very clearly visible stamp or limitation. This stamp is the separation of this world from the beyond, from the rest of creation, and the non-involvement of the spirit. Such works do not take into consideration that the earth is only a part of an entire system; that the greater part of existence is actually non-earthly. Since the earth or the physical realm is only a part of the whole creation, and man on earth carries a species of each part of creation, works conceived by the intellect alone can at its best only satisfy a very limited part of mans need, i.e. the needs of his physical body.

Look at the forms of government that you mentioned:

(1)Democracy, in other words government chosen by the majority. But does majority imply correctness? The fact that majority choses a particular thing does not make that thing right. Let’s look back on history and examine cases where majority have agreed on one thing. What do we find? Almost in all cases it turns out that that which majority agreed on was wrong; the general view, in almost all cases were wrong. Look back on the time when almost everybody thought that the earth was the center of the universe, that all the planets revolved around the earth. Only a few rebellious and self-reliant individuals ware strong enough to even consider that this generally accepted view may be wrong.

The fact remains that the masses of people is an emotional entity that stifles all individuality and independence. An individual lost in the opinion of the masses is as good as having lost his personality. This I have observed: that often when people come together, they become an emotional entity. An individual may choose to vote for a particular candidate just because a well-respected and intelligent scientist is an advocate of the same candidate. This individual feels smart by aliening himself with the allegedly smart people. Often this is the reason why people join some political parties, just to belong to same entity that the elite belong to.

Travel with in spirit back to Jerusalem around two thousand years ago when Pontius Pilate, reluctant to crucify Jesus, resorted to democracy in solving the case of Jesus. Pontius Pilate let the masses choose, majority carried the vote, and what did they choose?!!! To crucify an innocent man!!!

Once an idea becomes popular among the masses, it draws their emotions and the idea gains momentum; like wave it floods over everybody, sweeping them off their feet. The Politicians who know about this behavior of masses always exploit it to their advantage, Like Hitler said, “I use emotion for many and reserve reason for the few.” Need I say more?

Even the infamous Nazi party along with its head, Hitler, was to a certain extent democratically elected.

Once a candidate is able to understand the prevalent emotion of the masses, he exploits it by appearing as conformation of this emotion, as pioneer; as a result the masses rally around him and give him their vote.

Even if we are gracious enough to ascribe infallibility to the masses, how do we guaranty that the candidate is not just parading himself as sympathetic to the masses emotions? How are we sure that this leader will not become a different person, or purse a different course the moment he assumes power?

I can go on and on about the deficiencies of democracy but that will make my post very long. The bottom line is that the opinion of the masses, indeed the opinion of the entire mankind cannot change the laws of creation even by a hairs breath. Hence that which is wrong remains wrong even if the entire mankind chooses it.

Despite all these, democracy remains the best form of government thought-out by mankind. But it fails to compare with the Government of God.

(2) An absolute monarchy: I need not waste my time on this; this one is a joke. A King appointed by God? What is the guaranty that this appointment is actually from God? The Truth is that absolute monarchy is nothing but dictatorship in the guise of God’s approval. This makes it worse than ordinary dictatorship, since an ordinary dictator does not claim to be appointed by God. Such a claim makes the government doubly guilty before the laws of God. In reality man can never be a King!! There is only one King! I will explain what I mean here later. God has already appointed a position to man by endowing him with certain abilities; man is endowed with the ability to serve God consciously, to serve the Will of God.

(3) A Constitutional Monarchy. . . the King is anointed of God but the voice of the people is the voice of God?
In other words, the people as an entity are God, since their voice is the voice of God. Need I say more? The major lie here is ascribing to God what has nothing to do with God. The voice of the people has absolutely nothing to do with God, especially when this people do not care about the will of God. It should simply be defined as “The king is anointed by the people (or the elite) but the voice of the people is sovereign.” This is very closely resembles democracy; it is a combination of democracy and absolute monarchy, and hence suffers the ills of both.

(4) A Theocracy?. . . Government by divine guidance. . . such as government based on the tenets of a given Religion. . . think Saudi Arabia?

The problem with this is being based on the tenets of a given religion. It carries the lie, “Government by divine guidance,” it should rather be defined as government by religious guidance. No religion on earth today is so refined as to merge completely with the will of God in its practices; hence any government based on any earthly religion should not be viewed on as government by Divine guidance.

Finally what do I advocate?
It is my perception that mankind need not conceive or think-out any government for the earth. For the earth is already a part of a government; the entire creation to which the earth belongs is under the government of God. Creation already has a king—God. It is man’s duty to allow this kingdom to extend all the way to the earth. Thus it is earthman’s duty to voluntarily place himself under the government of God. Man voluntarily, by sinning, placed himself and his environment outside the kingdom of God. Thus to achieve the right governance man must retrace his steps and place himself under the rulership of God. This he can achieve by doing God’s will; the will he knows too well because his spirit, or his true self is nothing but a part bearer of this will.

Thus the right governance must proceed from the spirit, from the intuitive perception and not from the brain. The idea of a man being king as one who is above all and one who makes laws is wrong. No creature is a king as such. A king or a ruler on earth must be the purest servant, a servant of God; he must remain a mediator of the Governance that starts above and not the head or beginning of the government. This is what I mean by “Man can never a King,” for man or any creature by its nature cannot be a real King or the ultimate King. Man as well as other creatures, even in their highest glorification must remain servants! To be of service to God, or to be a servant of God, is the highest distinction that can befall any creature. But when the creature poses as one who makes the laws, who directs the lives of others, such a man is definitely treading a very dangerous path.

Such pure servants , such leaders, (or keeping in mind the limitation of our language let’s use the word ‘Kings’) can only be appointed from above and not from below. Such a person is called by God before birth, and prepared for his mission, before sent to the earth.

Plato who was a real artist hit upon the right thing when he said:

“The leaders selected from the guardian class must be the most virtuous and compromised with the morality of the citizens. Since they are philosophers, they can distinguish between people's real needs and people's illusory needs, which often corrupts the soul, thereby leading to immorality and unhappiness. So, the main role of the guardian class is to make sure all citizens grow spiritually and morally.” http://www.suite101.com/content/platos-ideal-state--plato-and-the-aristocratic-government-a278155#ixzz1PUovklTM

The idea of the guardian class is correct, but this class must consist of those who have special abilities, such as pure clairvoyants, or called ones endowed with the ability to clearly perceive spiritual guidance. Through such abilities they remain connected to their guides in the non-earthly plains, and through a chain of guides connected to the King of all creation – God. The rule of such guardian class should be to pass down the impressions from the highest heights. Thus they should be pure servants of the Light, and not philosophers as such.

The arrangement of people in casts must be ensured; but the basses for this must not be race, material success or education. The bases should be on the qualities that each soul possesses. Hence the cast system, so much criticized today due to lack of understanding, is nothing but man observing and obeying the law of attraction of homogeneous species.

But Plato made a mistake when he said, “Because of that, there must be death penalty for the citizens who infringe upon certain laws and censorship of certain kind of music and poetry. “ http://www.suite101.com/content/platos-ideal-state--plato-and-the-aristocratic-government-a278155#ixzz1PUovklTM

Man need not make such laws as death penalty or capital punishment. But a killer, for example should not be left to roam the streets and continue his vice among non-killers. Such a killer should be removed from the populace and placed in a place of confinement, confined only to the people of the same homogeny, thus thieves. Not necessarily such confinements as modern day prisons, because no man has the right to infringe on another creatures gift of freedom. Thieves should be placed in an island of thieves; all thieves would be sent there where there vices would only fall on spirits of the same kinds. They must be free to live normal lives in that island; they can earn their own living there and not live on the tax of the good citizens as it is practiced today. They must not be separated from nature, in an unnatural confinement as it is practiced today. Such is the way that the laws of God separates creatures based on the law of attraction of homogeneous species. A member of the guardian class in charge of such separation, must be a pure clairvoyant who remains consciously connected with his/her spiritual guard. Such a guardian through his gifts can easily see when a thief in the island of thieves has made a progress, has stopped being a thief, and consequently no longer belong to that island. Immediately such a former thief must be moved from that island to a place, city, or cast corresponding to his inner maturity. This is how the laws of God operate in the non-earthly planes; such automatic manifestation is delayed in the physical realm due to the density of physical matter which causes obstruction. It is man’s duty to make sure that these laws are observed even here on earth. The duration of sentence should not depend on the nature of the crime but on the inner condition of the criminal. And also, all criminals should not be grouped together but must be separated and grouped according to their nature based on the law of attraction of homogeneous species. The freedom of criminals should not be denied them, only the opportunity to harm innocent citizens should be denied them. The gifts of nature – sunshine, streams, sunset, rain and etc which God gives to all creatures – must not be denied them, because these are necessary for a healthy mind and also urges the sinner towards development. Hence an island would be a good place of a confinement that accords with God’s Holy will.


I can go on and on but what’s the point? The bottom line is that man need not rely on his intellect to conceive any form of government; man need not create any new system of government. He only needs to adjust his earth life to the governance of God, the governance that exists in the kingdom of God, a kingdom from which man originated and a part of which he carries within him.

The best form of government is one tailored to the special circumstances and needs of the particular society. The American colonists figured that the parliamentary system supported by a (constitutional) monarchy was not suitable to their circumstances, they created a new form of government - presidential system under a democracy - that seems to work pretty well. What is unfortunate is when a people decide to copy what's going on elsewhere without adequately considering their own circumstances. E.g., Nigeria is about the only country that follows the American presidential system. Yet, it doesn't seem to be suitable for us.

I also agree that allowing God govern is an essential feature. In essence, you can have any system of government, so long as the people are God-fearing, it'll generally work. On the other hand, a society seeped in immorality or godlessness, as is today's Nigeria, is not likely to make much headway regardless of form of government. That's why I think churches have a major role in igniting a moral, ethical and spiritual rebirth.

Recycling foreign messages or preaching as though you're in Europe or America does not strike one as the best approach. A situation where millions flock to crusades and other church meetings, yet you can't see the difference in the society is lamentable. Yonggi Cho grew a church that hit the million mark. It's easier for me to respect him because if you step into South Korea, you'll meet a lot of honest people. But in Nigeria, churches claim large numbers on Sundays and on special occasions, but it is not reflected in the way people live. If you had 10,000 christians in any state in Nigeria that lived the life of a christian, Nigeria would be a very different place.

@OP
Uugh, I shudder to think that anyone would indulge in such a mad proposition(no offense). Forsaking all reason, science, and common sense just so we can take the easy way out and say our laws are "magically" endowed so do not question them. We as human beings are better than this.

Furthermore, can you define what spirit is because I am not even sure what a "Spiritual Government" is even supposed to mean?

To answer the question, all governments are man made constructs and should be treated thusly. To forget that is to invite into your home and onto your streets, the worst in humanity.

Idehn:

@OP
Uugh, I shudder to think that anyone would indulge in such a mad proposition(no offense). Forsaking all reason, science, and common sense just so we can take the easy way out and say our laws are "magically" endowed so do not question them. We as human beings are better than this.

The OP was posed as a question, and did not make any suggestion, so I have no idea what you are on about.

Deep Sight:

Of all the forms of government manknd has conceived and applied; which form do we think would be most in line with the divine will? Or for those who might not believe in divinity, let us rephrase the question. Which form or method of human government is most reflective of a higher spiritual order for society?

Democracy? Vox Populi vox dei. . . the voice of the people is the voice of God?

An absolute mornachy? . . .The king is anointed of God. . . ?

A Constitutional Mornachy. . . the King is anointed of God but the voice of the people is the voice of God?

A Theocracy?. . . Government by divine guidance. . . such as government based on the tenets of a given Religion. . . think Saudi Arabia?

What about Plato's ideal state, governed by an aristocracy of philosopher kings? -

http://www.suite101.com/content/platos-ideal-state--plato-and-the-aristocratic-government-a278155

What do you think?

You are so eager to condemn any hint of spirituality that you did not even notice the following -

What about Plato's ideal state, governed by an aristocracy of philosopher kings? -

@ Justcool, excellent submissions. Profound.

But how may such a system be acheived on earth?

Is it not also dependent on the integrity of those implementing the system? Is it not also hugely susceptible to mis-application? Gifted people placed in authourity would be susceptible to dictatorial tendencies, and such a government becomes absolutely impossible to question or criticise, no? Is that healthy?

Deep Sight:

@ Justcool, excellent submissions. Profound.

But how may such a system be acheived on earth?

Is it not also dependent on the integrity of those implementing the system? Is it not also hugely susceptible to mis-application? Gifted people placed in authourity would be susceptible to dictatorial tendencies, and such a government becomes absolutely impossible to question or criticise, no? Is that healthy?

@Deep Sight.
Thanks for your kind words, and thanks also for your well fashioned questions. I will like to go deeply into it but before I do so, I please ask of you to re-familiarize yourself from these lectures from the first volume of the Grail Message:
(1) “All That Is Dead In Creation Shall Be Awakened, So That It May Pass Judgment Upon Itself!”
(2) “The Book Of Life”
(3) “The Millennium”
(4) “The Great Comet”
(4) “The Stranger”

The solution to our puzzle regarding how to implement a spiritual government on earth lies scattered in those lectures. Those are short lectures, you can easily read all of them within a short time.

But I will briefly answer your question, for now. Of course the government that I described cannot be implemented on the present condition of the earth, especially among the present humanity.

Hence God promised us the Millennium. But before this Millennium can be realized, all things must become new in the Judgment.The Judgment, under which we stand now, must first purify the earth and humanity. Only afterwards will there be a humanity worthy to live in the Millennium, a humanity that will be able to function in the Government that I described.

The will of man rules in subsequent creation, and all evils was brought about by man through the wrong use or application of his will. Hence to achieve a heaven-like subsequent creation, mankind will be disinherited of their right to rule in subsequent creation. Even those pure enough to have passed or survived the judgment would still be disinherited of this right.

We can go deeper and discuss how this can come about without violating the right of the human spirits to poses free will, a right that is inviolable, later. But please familiarize yourself with those lectures first, if afterwards you still want us to go deeper into it then we will.

So to answer your question in a nutshell: Only God can bring it about not mankind, and definitely not the present mankind. Everything must become new first.

Thanks

seyibrown:

You said it all, Bro! We waste valuable time and resources trying to govern our selves without God, and history has repeatedly shown the futility of doing this! The present is telling us we have not been doing it right! An ungodly government - democracy, theocracy or whatever - will take us nowhere!

Proverbs 29:2 When the righteous thrive, the people rejoice; when the wicked rule, the people groan.

When people who are not aligned with God's will form and run a government, the people will suffer under any such governance!

Thanks my sister. Your input is profound as well.

I have always wanted to come back to do a proper discussion here. Justcool do you think humanity can ever successfully implement your recommendations? I would not think so. Especially with the scope of human disagreement on all things religious and spiritual, and the attendant violence therein. There will eternally be universal resistance to such a proposition.

Any takers, any one?

Ya ya ya. the grail message, the solution to the world's problems.
What else is new?

In the course human history, we have seen so many books, so many philosophies, so many prophets, so many saviours, etc.
God government, spiritual government, guardian class, are these new ideas?

Intuition is not new. It has always been with us, we have always had it, we have always used it. so what? How far have we travelled on the road to spiritual eldorado?

My point is that as the universe is evolving, as organic life is constantly evolving, so are our minds and consciousness evolving as well.
What we have today are the sum total of all that has been in the past.

We have arrived at where we are by a gradual process with every soul that has ever lived having contributed to the process.
We are living in much better times than our ancestors, although with much different challanges than theirs.
We have gradually arrived at or may be arriving at universally accepted ideals of freeedom, right and wrong, justice and injustice and the common aspirations of the human family.

The intellect, as the supreme arbiter of this reality(emphasis), has moved human progress very far in a very short time.
let us not forget that the intellect took a dominant position mainly to the dismal failure of the so-called intuitive and revelatory knowledge to advance human thinking and progress for many millenia.

Bottom line, we are evolving and progressing quite fine.
God government,spirit-inspired government, we've been there, we've done that.
They are all fantasies.

Ill choose Platos ideal government. Thats the goal of 'Illuminati' anyway.

Joagbaje: Daniel 2:44
44 And in the days of these [final ten] kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed, nor shall its sovereignty be left to another people; but it shall break and crush and consume all these kingdoms and it shall stand forever.

you go wait tire coz we are going to hear this still in the next 300 years thats if religion hasnt been watered down and destroyed then

plaetton: Ya ya ya. the grail message, the solution to the world's problems.
What else is new?

In the course human history, we have seen so many books, so many philosophies, so many prophets, so many saviours, etc.
God government, spiritual government, guardian class, are these new ideas?

Intuition is not new. It has always been with us, we have always had it, we have always used it. so what? How far have we travelled on the road to spiritual eldorado?

My point is that as the universe is evolving, as organic life is constantly evolving, so are our minds and consciousness evolving as well.
What we have today are the sum total of all that has been in the past.

We have arrived at where we are by a gradual process with every soul that has ever lived having contributed to the process.
We are living in much better times than our ancestors, although with much different challanges than theirs.
We have gradually arrived at or may be arriving at universally accepted ideals of freeedom, right and wrong, justice and injustice and the common aspirations of the human family.

The intellect, as the supreme arbiter of this reality(emphasis), has moved human progress very far in a very short time.
let us not forget that the intellect took a dominant position mainly to the dismal failure of the so-called intuitive and revelatory knowledge to advance human thinking and progress for many millenia.

Bottom line, we are evolving and progressing quite fine.
God government,spirit-inspired government, we've been there, we've done that.
They are all fantasies.

Very well, but what's your own suggestion on ideal government? Still democracy?

Do you think that is the highest or most complete and most noble form of government that humanity can conceive?

Deep Sight:

Very well, but what's your own suggestion on ideal government? Still democracy?

Do you think that is the highest or most complete and most noble form of government that humanity can conceive?

Anything that is tagged highest and most ideal simply cannot exists for any significant period of time. It would be fleeting. The forces of entropy would quickly nullify it.
Nothing can ever be static. We must always aspire to higher ideals. the highest ideals can never be within grasp.
The universe is dynamic, life is dynamic,consciousness is dynamic. No matter how good and ideal we fashion our world, our children will always opt for something different.
The beauty of democracy is that it can evolve with our consciousness. It starts in a rudimentary form and then matures and refines itself over time.
Civil rights, desegregation,women's rights,child's rights,workers rights,gay rights, animal rights and environmental protectionism are some of the fruits of democracy in the past century.
Who says we are not making progress?
Most of the world's problems are economic, the distribution of resources.
That is the culprit.
That is where we need to focus our reform agendas.

Take heaven ,for example, when all the good people are taken to heaven to live in bliss for eternity under god's government.

How many years out of eternal life, Do you imagine, that it would take humans to get bored, yearn for adventure,disagree, conspire with each other,war with each other, form an army and rebel against god's government, just like lucifer supposedly did?

Then its Deja Vu all over again.

lol.

justcool: @Deepsight.
The problem with all the forms of government that you mentioned can be found in your statement, “Of all the forms of government mankind has conceived ….” The problem lies in mankind conceiving or thinking out these forms of government. Everything that is "thought-out” or everything that originates from the intellect alone will never suffice to deal with the human condition. Because humans have needs that goes far beyond the realm of operation of the intellect.

I agree with almost everything you said, but am still confused. You accept the potential weaknesses in all forms of government --- fine. You accept the inability of mankind to perceive the full breadth and scope of the universe --- fine.

Yet you accept that the word of God un-misinterpreted, un-molested by political intervention and whose origin is so mysterious, that even the language it was first written in is not known for certain is true? Variously claimed to have been written in Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek, it has been being translated and re-translated, primarily by the Church of the Political Empire of Rome and by the Church of the Monarchy of England.

A genuine question, why does your reasoned analysis stop when you get to God?

plaetton: Take heaven ,for example, when all the good people are taken to heaven to live in bliss for eternity under god's government.

How many years out of eternal life, Do you imagine, that it would take humans to get bored, yearn for adventure,disagree, conspire with each other,war with each other, form an army and rebel against god's government, just like lucifer supposedly did?

Then its Deja Vu all over again.

lol.

you dey reason oh. maybe start a topic on this.

plaetton: Take heaven ,for example, when all the good people are taken to heaven to live in bliss for eternity under god's government.

How many years out of eternal life, Do you imagine, that it would take humans to get bored, yearn for adventure,disagree, conspire with each other,war with each other, form an army and rebel against god's government, just like lucifer supposedly did?

Then its Deja Vu all over again.

lol.

One small misconception. Heaven promises to be a place where man will be satisfied. Man will not yearn for anything more because man will have infinite eternal God in whom he will be satisfied. Boredom is born out of dissatisfaction, boredom cannot possibly exist in heaven.

@OP,
I'll say: "Democracy is not the best form of government, but it is the best we have available to us." (Quote from author I can't remember now)
Democracy it is for me.

Mr_Anony:
One small misconception. Heaven promises to be a place where man will be satisfied. Man will not yearn for anything more because man will have infinite eternal God in whom he will be satisfied. Boredom is born out of dissatisfaction, boredom cannot possibly exist in heaven.

@OP,
I'll say: "Democracy is not the best form of government, but it is the best we have available to us." (Quote from author I can't remember now)
Democracy it is for me.

Man can never be satisfied for any extended period of time. Unless everyone melts into one big teapot where individuality is completely lost. But as long as man has his individuality and his imagination, he must always yearn for something different from what he has now.

as a Pagan, i go for Absolute Monarchy. i like the Malaysia system where different Kings from different parts of the Nation elect a Paramount ruler every few years or so.

the Kingship is an extremely old institution which has stood the test of time with roots from civilisation itself. Even the great Republican Senate-like democracy of the Roman Empire, collapsed and gave way to Monarchy.

even animals elect a chief of their tribes, be it hyena, wolf, or baboon.

Tribal Kings and Chiefs of proper lineage are the choice.

plaetton:

Man can never be satisfied for any extended period of time. Unless everyone melts into one big teapot where individuality is completely lost. But as long as man has his individuality and his imagination, he must always yearn for something different from what he has now.

Well, if Christianity is true, God is the true satisfaction of man. When man has God, he can never know dissatisfaction anymore. So Heaven cancels out all possibility of boredom and dissatisfaction.

For you to throw this argument out, you have to destroy logically its foundation that Christianity is true.

^yes i agree with you. we must destroy christianity.

PAGAN 9JA:
as a Pagan, i go for Absolute Monarchy. i like the Malaysia system where different Kings from different parts of the Nation elect a Paramount ruler every few years or so.

the Kingship is an extremely old institution which has stood the test of time with roots from civilisation itself. Even the great Republican Senate-like democracy of the Roman Empire, collapsed and gave way to Monarchy.

even animals elect a chief of their tribes, be it hyena, wolf, or baboon.

Tribal Kings and Chiefs of proper lineage are the choice.

The Roman Emperor-ship was not democratic!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Roman_emperors

The vast majority are sons/nephews/brothers... Familiar?

PAGAN 9JA:
^yes i agree with you. we must destroy christianity.

Bros, no be me you de agree wit o, abeg. If you agree with me, it means that your agreement is with the submission that he cannot attack a conclusion based on a premise that he has not proved illogical.

Ki-Katanga:


The Roman Emperor-ship was not democratic!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Roman_emperors

The vast majority are sons/nephews/brothers... Familiar?

im talking about the time around and before Julius Caesar. after his death, the Democratic elected Roman Senate fell and after the Second Triumvirate. The first Roman Emperor was Augustus.