Hello,

As I dont own this site and also have no control on who comments or not I would like to implore that the creation of this topic is for constructive debate between reasonable minds. Bigotry and irrelevances should be ignored if possible and open-mindedness and enlightened chats should be encouraged.

I know in life nobody knows it all and we all have different views and pathways to religion/life. Questions should always be asked in order to enhance knowledge and understanding.

@ deepsight/pastor aio

If Jesus said "love thy nieghbor as yourself", how come some "Christains"  tend to hold so much animousty to gay individuals? I understand the cultural and biological stand in our native land but am speaking on how the Love Christ profess seem to elude these certain individuals? Am sure Jesus would have said "love your straight nieghbor" if he wanted people to love just a certain calibre of sexuality. I would have thought the Love he spoke about would be an encompassing one that transcends sexuality. I am aware this is a very contentious subject and people rather choose to ignore it rather than address it. What is your view on this.

@ Joagbaje

I understand that you seem to defend a lot of these "MOG'S", which is fine, as you as an individual possess the right to do so.  However, I do have some questions for you;

Most men of God claim to speak to God (the omnipotent), how come God don't tell them to use some of their acquired wealth to go the kids dying around the world to feed them? these dying children, I presume are also God's children and am sure God is aware of their predicament. Why would God give someone he SPEAKS to regularly so much wealth and leave children he SEES to die of Hunger?
And has God spoken to you before?

@others

I have come to the conclusion that tithing should depend on the individual giving it for whatever reason they see fit. But I have noticed that some people dont pay tithes or even go to church but still live relatively good lives, some people of other faiths dont pay tithes but still live relatively comfortable and are still blessed. In terms of prosperity, secular people dont pay tithes or give to charity or pastors but are still comfortable and insome cases live a more fruitful life than some tithe-payers and church-goers?

What then is the purpose of this practice (tithes, offerings and whatever), when people that don't belive in it or people of other faiths seem to do well without practising it. Surely it seem to raise an eyebrow as to the real purpose of the practice.

What is the real purpose of the practise? (those that believe in it)

Please, lets educate ourselves without resorting to abuses and bigotry.

Nice topic Dare2think. If it gets messy/offtopic in here, just bring it to our attention on the "Mod Thread" and we'll clean it up.

And oh, I 'interviewed' Joagbaje a while back. You may find the thread useful in throwing light on who he is . . . one revelation was he happens to be a very good artist (art/paintings etc). Beyond all the drama, I think mr Jo is a very intriguing guy . . . https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-551666.0.html

@dare2think

@ deepsight/pastor aio

If Jesus said "love thy neighbor as yourself", how come some "Christians"  tend to hold so much animosity to gay individuals? I understand the cultural and biological stand in our native land but am speaking on how the Love Christ profess seem to elude these certain individuals? Am sure Jesus would have said "love your straight nieghbor" if he wanted people to love just a certain calibre of sexuality. I would have thought the Love he spoke about would be an encompassing one that transcends sexuality. I am aware this is a very contentious subject and people rather choose to ignore it rather than address it. What is your view on this.

Any Christian who holds animosity towards Gays cannot be truly showing the LOVE of GOD, no doubt about that.

In fact many so called Christians who criticize gays are hooked on indecency, sexual perversion and all manner of twisted evil and yet to think that somehow their actions will be overlooked by God while they condemn others.

BUT showing LOVE to Gays DOES NOT mean we should have fellowship with THEM.

Ephesians 5:11-12 "Take no part in the worthless deeds of evil and darkness;instead, expose them, For it is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret."

1 Timothy 5:20 -"Those who sin are to be rebuked publicly, so that the others may take warning."

2 John 1:11-"Anyone who welcomes him shares in his wicked work"

We are to expose the wickedness of homosexuality because of the devastating effect it has on men and women made in God's image. And then the intention of exposing this life style is to hopefully cause the people held bondage to this addiction to reconsider their ways in the light of God's word and REPENT.

This is God's will for Gays and all sexually perverse, Liars, Thieves, Fraudsters etc etc .

Acts 26:18 to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.'


So we are to LOVE Gays. People who go about stoning Gays, cursing them etc are NOT sent by GOD. They are hypocrites and probably do much worse in their own privacy.

@ Joagbaje

I understand that you seem to defend a lot of these "MOG'S", which is fine, as you as an individual possess the right to do so.  However, I do have some questions for you;

Most men of God claim to speak to God (the omnipotent), how come God don't tell them to use some of their acquired wealth to go the kids dying around the world to feed them? these dying children, I presume are also God's children and am sure God is aware of their predicament. Why would God give someone he SPEAKS to regularly so much wealth and leave children he SEES to die of Hunger?
And has God spoken to you before?

Most of the MOG today are wolves who entered the church deceitfully for the purpose of MAKING MONEY. They had no interest in GOD at heart , so they care NOTHING for the sheep.

And there are those who started well but were corrupted by the deceitfulness of riches . For these there is still hope, we must pray for them.

Back to the point you raised, I personally have decided NOT to pay money to any MOG but to give money as GOD leads me, which could be sending money to orphanages, helping the destitute, buying bibles for those who cannot afford them in poor countries, praying for the sick in hospitals etc etc.





@others

I have come to the conclusion that tithing should depend on the individual giving it for whatever reason they see fit

.

Tithing is not scriptural, period. !!! But Giving with a cheerful heart is scriptural.

But I have noticed that some people dont pay tithes or even go to church but still live relatively good lives

.

Going to a so called church better called a building for worship cannot save anyone. In fact many go to church either to satisfy their consciences after living the whole week for self or worst still others go to church to pray for curses on their enemies.

The purpose of fellowship is to edify one another, exhort each other in LOVE and humility, sing praises to GOD with thanksgiving, meet the needs of the saints, rebuke the unfaithful with fear etc etc.

But to address your main issue, YES, if you measure a man's spirituality by his wealth or material blessings then you have for sure missed road. Because a Mans life does not consist in the abundance of earthly possessions but in his relationship toward GOD.

@ Dare2think - unfortunaltely, in order to ensure that there is no confusion in identity between myself and the user ^^^ above who parades a mocked-version of my username, It is best I resile from commenting on this thread.

Apologies.

dare2think:


@ deepsight/pastor aio

If Jesus said "love thy nieghbor as yourself", how come some "Christains"  tend to hold so much animousty to gay individuals? I understand the cultural and biological stand in our native land but am speaking on how the Love Christ profess seem to elude these certain individuals? Am sure Jesus would have said "love your straight nieghbor" if he wanted people to love just a certain calibre of sexuality. I would have thought the Love he spoke about would be an encompassing one that transcends sexuality. I am aware this is a very contentious subject and people rather choose to ignore it rather than address it. What is your view on this.

Perhaps u need to understand what Jesus meant by LOVE. He loved everyone including the pharisees, but yet He never missed an opportunity to highlight their hypocrisy, sins and unrighteousness whilst emphasising their paths to destruction. Loving people is different from IGNORING evil. your post suggests that to love GAYS would mean to ignore their unrighteous path.

while as Christians we are expected to LOVE everyone, as this is the last commandment from Christ, we are however not allowed to condone unrighteousness and sin. being gay is fundamentally and scripturally unGodly . . . . this does not equate to hatred.

@ Joagbaje

I understand that you seem to defend a lot of these "MOG'S", which is fine, as you as an individual possess the right to do so.  However, I do have some questions for you;

Most men of God claim to speak to God (the omnipotent), how come God don't tell them to use some of their acquired wealth to go the kids dying around the world to feed them? these dying children, I presume are also God's children and am sure God is aware of their predicament. Why would God give someone he SPEAKS to regularly so much wealth and leave children he SEES to die of Hunger?
And has God spoken to you before?

Your poser to Jo is the simplest poser that should serve as the yardstick to discern false prophets. Christ said that by their fruits we shall know them. unfortunately NONE of the prominent MOG on this planet today bears fruit that resembles that of Christ (the list includes Adeboye, oyaks, joshua, ashimolowo and their american counterparts) that they cannot even take good care of the sheep of Christ, like Peter was commanded to do.

@others

I have come to the conclusion that tithing should depend on the individual giving it for whatever reason they see fit. But I have noticed that some people dont pay tithes or even go to church but still live relatively good lives, some people of other faiths dont pay tithes but still live relatively comfortable and are still blessed. In terms of prosperity, secular people dont pay tithes or give to charity or pastors but are still comfortable and insome cases live a more fruitful life than some tithe-payers and church-goers?

What then is the purpose of this practice (tithes, offerings and whatever), when people that don't belive in it or people of other faiths seem to do well without practising it. Surely it seem to raise an eyebrow as to the real purpose of the practice.

What is the real purpose of the practise? (those that believe in it)

Please, lets educate ourselves without resorting to abuses and bigotry.

while this might be ur personal conclusion, as u are entitled to ur opinion.
The issue here is not what one is paying. .  . .but on what basis is it being paid? why should anyone LIE to anyone that God said they should pay 10% of their gross income, hence they go to hell? did God say so? when? where? why?

@Deep sight

you taking it too far,just ignore the tramp

^^^^ I agree with the above.

Deepsight, do have a rethink. . , abdicating because of a nuisance is an acknowledgement of the vanity u are fighting against.
Some of us would always love to hear ur opinions no matter what . . . , and come to think of it . . . . the OP was actually addressed to u.
please do honour us with ur usually intelligent response.

@ Deepsight

I stated in the begining that irrelevant post should be ignored---you'd be surprised, they fade away when they cant get your attention, so dont give it to them.

@Frosbel

Thanks for your reply, howver don't you think your statement is contradictory

frosbel:

BUT showing LOVE to Gays DOES NOT mean we should have fellowship with THEM

If you single out those you cant worship with, does that not eliminate the love part of the equation. Surely when you love someone, you fellowsip with them regardless. Those that are not "gay" that one fellowship with might have more insidious character that we are not aware of, but we still fellowhip with them.

@NOETIC

The tithing issue is one that requires reason. I am aware some people choose to do it as a personal covenant with God. However, could that be because most had been indoctrinated before they had the ablity to question the doctrine spilled on them by another individual or do they actually, (in their view), reap benefits from doing it. I know family members that have been doing it for years and its like a ritual to them. My problem is where the actual "tithe" go.

Some would say "that is not for you to think, yours is to give cheerfully to God"---But since we are not throwing money up the sky to give to God, this "Tithes" actually go somewhere. I am aware that sme church fundings go towards welfare, but in Nigeria has that welfare become so little that some "mog's" manage to get luxurious items.

I'm pretty sure not everyone is comfortable in these mega-churches, hence why would some of them charter transport to get member's to church. It's really puzzling.

^^^

There are many issues with this tithing doctrine. but looking at it from an insightful point of view and also assessing your example. . . .I can say that the general premise for tithing is wrong.

1. based on your example of the family practising the tithing, they do so in hope for some reward or financial blessings. there is absolutely no spiritual or physical proof that anyone paying tithe is better off than those not paying. like u rightly said, indoctrination is playing a key role. an average person worshipping in KICC london here, would think that the things of God including salvation is for sale considering the way and manner mather ashimolowo asks for seed for anything u were asking for. . . .the poser is, is this the same gospel JC taught? did Jesus charge anyone for anything?

2. I am not aware of any explicit biblical verse that commands Christians to tithe. the last commandment of Christ was that we love all just like He loves us. The interpretation of this commandment was what we saw in the book of Acts. . . .where the early converts sold ALL that they had and shared amongst themselves, taking good care if the poor. They gave ALL without any hope of an earthly reward.

3. why would any one who claims to follow JC expect earthly goodies in return? did JC emphasise this? The reward for being a part of His kingdom was to reap eternal rewards in heaven or afterlife and not a life of private jets and yatchs.

4. I am concerned about where the money actually goes. if the money is genuinely received on behalf of God. . . .then I would expect that Godly things would be done with the money. but Christ summarised it all. . .admonishing that "By their fruits we shall know them"