The Bible is full (though not exclusively) of countless immoral precepts than many are ready to acknowledge and accept. One such immoral act is DECEPTION. Even Abraham, the so-called "Father of Faith", was himself a serial trickster, who repeatedly told lies to get on with his life. What morals can one plausibly learn from this? Is morality logically independent of religions as some scholars aver?

you are controversial

try to understand the bible better.

mama-gee:

, crying wolf and, depression?

Mama-gee are you sick or drunk? Whichever, I'm only looking for those who can intellectually engage with issues. i'm not looking for any psychopaths to dabble into this discourse. So, you may well just piss-off this thread!

tonyx4x44:

you are controversial

Well tonyx4x44, there is no controversy in this matter. Abraham repeatedly lied. Yet, he is the father of faith. Can you shed light on how a serial liar can be adjudged a Father of Faith?

andrewdg:

try to understand the bible better.

andrewdg, what is it I don't understand in the bible about this matter?

Patsey:

The Bible is full (though not exclusively) of countless immoral precepts than many are ready to acknowledge and accept. One such immoral act is DECEPTION. Even Abraham, the so-called "Father of Faith", was himself a serial trickster, who repeatedly told lies to get on with his life. What morals can one plausibly learn from this? Is morality logically independent of religions as some scholars aver?

Explain yourself . What do you mean by immoral precepts.

Jesus told the pharisees " you make mistake because you do not know the scripture". Please read the bible well. Abraham did not lie because sarah was truly his sister. When the king accused him, he told thee king he was not lying that sarah is truly his sister.

@ Poster

Your title is quite interesting but you seemed to have cited only one example. Let me start by saying the bible is a collection of books. Commonly you have the 66 book bible but there are some bibles that have up to 79 books. Some parts of the bible tell you about history but generally you can learn about God. The old testament part of the bible focus more on Israel because they carry the covenant God made with Abraham. While the new testament focus more on Jesus who is fulfilling the declaration of God that the seed of the woman would crush the head of the serpent ( Unlike other humans who were born as a result of a man's seed the bible says Jesus was conceived of the HolyGhost so He was the seed of the woman, a man wasn't involved in his case)

But more importantly is the bible for for the purpose of  teaching morals? You can learn morals from the bible if you follow the laws of God and not the example of a man. However the purpose of the bible I believe is not to teach morals but to know God and follow his ways. No man is perfect except God and his Son Jesus Christ. Every other character in the bible have their shortcomings which is a good example for us.

Let me digress and talk about Christianity. While every other religion claims that for you to be approved of God you need to do more good than evil. Christianity teaches that there is no good you can do that can be sufficient to get God's approval. In order words a man is not acceptable to God because he has done some good things ( or live more morally than immorally).

So if it is not about deeds what is it about? It is about faith in God and his Son Jesus Christ " For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." - John 3: 16. When a man accepts that Jesus is the Son of God and believes in his heart he is given the Spirit of God that teaches him all things. In order words God is dwelling in him. The life this man/woman lives is God's.

To those who do not understand this transformation they quickly say "Öh this man/woman is morally upright." Many of them try to follow his/her example but they would never be able because they do not have in them the HolyGhost. These copycats see the laws of God as a burden. They comfort themselves by comparing themselves with other men. They say "after all I am better than him or her, I should be acceptable to God"  

These copycats read the bible with the lens of morality. They can never understand the words of God because they do not have the Spirit of God in them.  They are like the Ethiopian Eunuch who said “How can I understand unless someone explains it to me?” ( Acts8: 26 - 40).  It takes the man/woman who has been blessed with the HolyGhost to understand the scriptures.

Do not be surprised that there are many who call themselves Pastors/Bishops/Deacons/overseers/Elders etc today who have never received the HolySpirit. They see "real"Christians" and copy their attitude and rise to positions in the church but in their heart they see God's laws as burden. Of them Jesus said "Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'"- Matthew 7:23.  They can do miracles in the name of Jesus because that name is highly exalted by God (Philipians 2: 9). Whenever the name is called heaven and earth tremble.

Those who do not have the HolyGhost  result to their reason to explain scripture and sin. They make excuses for God. They say things like "the church needs to move with the times"as such they now ordain homosexuals as priests and even tag people "homosexual Christians" which the HolyGhost forbids ( just one example)

William Booth (founder Salvation Army) said  "I consider that the chief dangers which confront the coming century will be religion without the Holy Ghost, Christianity without Christ, forgiveness without repentance, salvation without regeneration, politics without God, and heaven without hell. " that is what "religious" people do today not those filled with the HolyGhost

I therefore urge you brother that you believe in the Lord Jesus so that you might recieve from God the HolyGhost. Then you would no longer interpret the bible in terms of morality but according to the Spirit.

Patsey:

The Bible is full (though not exclusively) of countless immoral precepts than many are ready to acknowledge and accept. One such immoral act is DECEPTION. Even Abraham, the so-called "Father of Faith", was himself a serial trickster, who repeatedly told lies to get on with his life. What morals can one plausibly learn from this? Is morality logically independent of religions as some scholars aver?

Immoral precepts? The bible does not tell you to follow ALL the examples of the characters featured in it  . . . and you know that! For example, 'Cain killed Abel' is an HISTORICAL account and the fact that this account is written in the Bible does not mean that we should kill our brothers! How many Christians have killed their brothers because 'Cain did so in the Bible'?

The bible contains historical accounts of actions good and bad but christians know what is good and what is evil, and know they ought to DO GOOD, NOT EVIL - Yes, the Bible says to FLEE ALL APPEARANCE OF EVIL! The Bible is NOT FULL OF IMMORAL PRECEPTS as the Bible DOES NOT INSTRUCT US TO REPEAT THE EVIL ACTS that were committed by those named. What you call 'IMMORAL PRECEPTS' ARE NOT 'PRECEPTS', as they were NOT SET FOR CHRISTIANS TO FOLLOW! There are no precepts set for Christians to go against any of the ten commandments AT ALL!

Christians look unto JESUS (the author and finisher of or faith); not Abraham, David, Cain, Solomon etc!

Patsey, I seriously doubt that you are a Christian  , and I think you have been gorging yourself on some book full of plagiarism!

I don't think anyone ever said Abraham was holy
He was a sinful man.

His redeeming property though, is that He believed God. And this was accounted to Him as Righteousness.