Joagbaje:

Then your judgement is faulty.you don't judge prosperity by Materialism .

Materialism ke Did you read me talking about materialism i said i don';t see them walking in the fullness of God's blessing or are you saying the 'fullness of God's blessing' is all about materialism. You know i was applied your definition of prosperity to determine if these people are poor or not if my judgement is faulty, it's because your definition of prosperity is faulty

Joagbaje:

Then you dont understand seed sowing . You sow a seed to have a harvest. If there is a seed then there must be a harvest.Can you explain this scripture.

Galatians 6:6-7
 Let him that is taught in the word communicate unto him that teacheth in all good things.
7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap

Is Paul encouraging kalo kalo here?

Oga Jo, this is not Agriculture class Anyways i can tell you you Paul was encouraging acts of charity, not business of give and receive (casino gospel). I see Claus has added the verse you left out

Joagbaje:

What do you understand by prophet reward? If you check it out ,it answers the question .

I am not checking anything out. No time for research, am still at work. am hoping you will tell me

Joagbaje:

The honour is gift ,value and care that parents deserve,

You agree it's not all about money

Joagbaje:

Giving to God shouldn't take away the giving to parents. Giving to God should not take away the giving to a pastor. Giving to God should not take away the giving to the poor. Everything has it's place. One giving doesn't. Supplant the other.

I don't think there's anybody with a contrary view here. It's a complete package, it falls under the commandment to love your neighbour. You have not adhered to the commandment if you only assist poor widow and leave the pastor in need. This is not why i disagree with your position on giving.

Joagbaje:

Now you're talking. Giving is a christian lifestyle . But the impression being created here is that givers are mugus.

It's possible they are especially if they don't have a good understanding of why they should give

Joagbaje:

That's the problem . Are you in their heart to determine the motive . A pastor teaches giving, for the sake of the sheep. Not for the sake of the pastor.

Zikkyy is not in the heart of pastors, so cannot determine their motive but Joagbaje can, cos he is in their heart abi I don't need to be in their heart Jo. I can observe the result of their actions

Joagbaje:

Thats not our problem. If the sheep Is not well fed, they will find somewhere esle where their hunger can be satisfied .

Na wa oh God dey

Joagbaje:

So every church has it's crowd. We should all find our places.

Okay

Joagbaje:

When a minister break such things from them . Doors are open . The grace of God is unlocked . Their efforts can be crowned with success . Prayer doesn't take the place of work.

So one must go through the minister for doors to unlock the grace of God. If i stand in Christ's stead, why do i need to go through the minister?

Joagbaje:

You try o, you mean you can talk down on the salvation of a man that way . Pls display some reverence for Gods spirit. Conviction to salvation is the work of the holy spirit. A man can't be born again by promo.

Sorry, my apology. correction: If the person decides to accept Christ as a result of participation in the various 'promo' we see on t.v. (like the 'night of bliss' where miracle is advertise), we know what to expect

Joagbaje:

It's the same thing. If paul is telling them the benefit of giving , what was he inspiring them to do? When Jesus Said ,  " Give and it shall be giving"  what was he encouraging .

It's not the same thing it was not expressly stated that they should go ahead and give for profit. Paul did not encourage anybody to give to achieve to increase his wealth. Teachings on givings was about doing charitable act not profit.

Zikkyy:

It's not the same thing it was not expressly stated that they should go ahead and give for profit. Paul did not encourage anybody to give to achieve to increase his wealth. Teachings on givings was about doing charitable act not profit.

Paul was encouraging the corinthians to give just as the maccedonians did.

2 Corinthians 9:6-7
But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully,

Nothing is wrong in telling people the benefit of what he wants them to do. He gave instructions here and explained the benefit. Is that kalo kalo?.

Galatians 6:6-7
 Let him that is taught in the word communicate unto him that teacheth in all good things.
7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap

from saharareporters comes a perfect example, "Religious Las Vegas III: The Hypocrisy Of Greed" it ends ,

The Bishop ended the service with millions of naira sown by people who are hungry for breakthrough. There is going to be another convention next year and another Bishop will be guest speaker with another ‘seeding’ message. May God deliver my gullible brethren, Amen.

The psychology behind the whole process of gratifying their lusts is embedded in disarming their victims with testimonies that are coated with exaggerations and sometimes outright lies. The greedy congregants also bought into the lies because there is an abyss of lust in their throats. The deceiver and the deceived suffering from the same hypocrisy of lust called greed.

This is the mold and the frame upon which the message of prosperity is based. The scriptures used might be different but the scenario is almost the same wherever you go. The culture of rat racing in our psyche has actually sold us out as slaves of our belly. We look for magicians in the name of Men of God who acclaim to be so anointed that they can arm twist God and give you what heavens has not given you. This is not to say it is impossible to get what God has not given, because Nigeria society is full of evidential examples of rogues, saboteurs, politicians and public servants who have stolen with the aid of prayers of covering from Men of God just to prove that they are anointed. They encourage the exercise by aiding and abetting, and never disapproved of the wrong doings in our society.

@ JOE

I discovered that the topic Re: God And Many Of Us Are Fedup With All This Prosperity Garbage Gospel was inspired by Mr. Frosbel's frustration. HE IS A DEEPER LIFER!!! CONFIRMED!!! and the whole world knows what they teach.

@ FROSBEL

I understand how you feel but don't add God to it. You are the one who's tired of Prosperity Gospel. I advice you to embrace this gospel & be free from you poverty mentality once & for all. I wonder when you even started embracing technology e.g. using the internet, is it not worldly? You that forbid TV, good clothes, jewelries and the rest. THAT GOD THAT OPENED YOUR EYES TO ACCEPT TECHNOLOGY will see you through. Just humble yourself & believe his word. DIG DEEPER into God's word before living in a DEEPER LIFE candle light revelation.

Micuilles:

@ JOE

I discovered that the topic Re: God And Many Of Us Are Fedup With All This Prosperity Garbage Gospel was inspired by Mr. Frosbel's frustration. HE IS A DEEPER LIFER!!! CONFIRMED!!! and the whole world knows what they teach.

@ FROSBEL

I understand how you feel but don't add God to it. You are the one who's tired of Prosperity Gospel. I advice you to embrace this gospel & be free from you poverty mentality once & for all. I wonder when you even started embracing technology e.g. using the internet, is it not worldly? You that forbid TV, good clothes, jewelries and the rest. THAT GOD THAT OPENED YOUR EYES TO ACCEPT TECHNOLOGY will see you through. Just humble yourself & believe his word. DIG DEEPER into God's word before living in a DEEPER LIFE candle light revelation.

You that accuse Frosbel of being a DCLM, what are you a prosperity P*I*M*P? You guys never fail to amaze, you are in a nation of poverty and still have the marbles to point a finger at someone who obviously enjoys a more comfortable lifestyle than all your stolen money can give in Nigeria, haba!

Vanity upon vanity, what value does TV, Jewelry, "good clothes", etc add to your life? What is "good clothes" to you? When you "grow up" in the faith, you will come to the realization that what you're faulting DCLM for now actually represents the Body of Christ more than your "bling bling" money grubbing so called "MOGs".

@ Micuilles

Micuilles:

I discovered that the topic Re: God And Many Of Us Are Fedup With All This Prosperity Garbage Gospel was inspired by Mr. Frosbel's frustration. HE IS A DEEPER LIFER!!! CONFIRMED!!! and the whole world knows what they teach.

I doubt it o. Deeper life church believes in tithing . But Frosbel doesn't.

Pastor JoAgbaje, How many times do you need to be told that tithing as preached today is a SCAM/419? Do you even believe in Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior or has "pastor Chris" taken that spot? I thought Jesus Christ fulfilled everything for Christians or don't you think so?

You are not "spreading the Gospel" to anyone other than Nigerians in various places so let's cut that crap of a claim while we're at it.

Why don't you want to "spread the Gospel" to Maidiguri right there in Nigeria, don't you think Boko Haram need salvation too?

Both the Nigerian deceivers and their deceived deserve each other because they're all trying to get rich quick or die trying, God never promised all his Children monetary wealth as claimed by the deceivers.

^^^^^^ The FEAR of BOKO HARAM is the begining of their wisdom. Wait until the heat really gets hot in Maiduguri you will no longer see any MOG there again.

''Everybody wants to go to HEAVEN but none of them wan DIE''

Joagbaje:

When Jesus Said ,  " Give and it shall be giving"  what was he encouraging .

If you read the that chapter of the bible from verse1, you will see that Jesus was not telling anybody to sow as a get rich quick scheme. Jesus encouraged love, he encouraged charitable giving.

Luke 6:34-38 (KJV)
34And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.
35But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.
36Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.
37Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:
38Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

Joagbaje:

But when you sow a seed , there is only one reason, "HARVEST" if not , it's no seed. Farmers don't put corn in the ground for storage.

This is wrong. Our givings should be driven by love. If we practice charitable giving for the potential return, then why should the act be seen as charitable; if we love our brothers and sisters because of the material blessings we will receive, can we still say our actions was truly based on love. Is that love genuine? Do you love God for the blessings? I don't think you understand the message of Christ sir.

Motive is very important, and that is why your casino gospel is seen as a gospel for the greedy. The danger of the casino gospel is that it makes people seek God for the wrong reasons; they seek God for what they can get out of him. They see the Almighty as a vending machine. Reason why people are closer to God in times of crisis and forget bout God in good times.  

You don't do charity for profit. You don't give for personal benefit (selfish interest); that's what charity is bout. Teach your people the right form of giving; giving without thoughts of the returns.

1 Corinthians 13
1Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
2And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
3And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.
4[b]Charity suffereth long, and is kind[/b]; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
5Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;. . . .

. . . . 8Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. . . . . ,

Joagbaje:

Paul was encouraging the corinthians to give just as the maccedonians did.

2 Corinthians 9:6-7
But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully,

Did you consider verse 7?

7Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

The giving is not the issue, it is the motive behind the giving that matters. Paul did not encourage prosperity by way of seed sowing. i think it was the other way round, he advise that we be contented.

1 Timothy 6:6-10 (KJV)
6But godliness with contentment is great gain. 7For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out. 8And having food and raiment let us be therewith content. 9But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition. 10For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

Hebrews 13:5 (KJV)
5Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

When Paul said we should be hospitable (for some has entertained Angels in the process), can we interpret that to mean we should go about entertaining strangers with the objective that we might one day entertain Angels?

Hebrews 13:2 (KJV)
2Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.

If Paul believed the casino gospel, why did he go about collecting contributions from one church for the other? Why did he deny the church the opportunity to sow into his anointing by his decision not to burden the church? How come he was not preaching riches or how to achieve it?

frosbel (m) Re: Why Do Youths Run Away From Deeper Life Bible Church?
« #433 on: January 17, 2011, 11:01 PM » --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Good that you are a deeper lifer, just make sure that you are also a member of the true church, the body of  Christ.

Remember as much as i also go to deeper life and admire the church for sound doctrine,

@ Joe

Read the above statement by Mr. FROSBEL on the above topic. FROSBEL IS DEEEEEEPER LIFE. I even suspect this OGOJIM guy too. THEY THINK AND SOUND ALIKE.

@ Joe,

Less I forget, don't mind that Ogajim Guy too oh!!! Because he's in the US he thinks he's the only immigrant there. Most times they all forget where they're from because of the serenity,development level & beauty in the western world. If they were that smart they should have remained in their mother country to cause a change instead of running away abroad & judging their homeland from there.

You might be shocked most of these guys like OGAJIM was probably a Lizard when in Naija. Now He thinks himself to be an aligator. Sorry Bruv, you only metamophosed into an AMERICAN LIZARD with earings, smoking pot and stuff. BUT YOU ARE STILL A lizard ( Bishop Idahosa).

if I were you I'll try to cause a change in my mother land from were ever I am by at least changing the general notion (BAD) MOST FORIEGNERS have about Nigeria. Instead of feeling like a foriegner in another man's land. CASCUILLE!!!

Micuilles:

@ Joe,

Less I forget, don't mind that Ogajim Guy too oh!!! Because he's in the US he thinks he's the only immigrant there. Most times they all forget where they're from because of the serenity,development level & beauty in the western world. If they were that smart they should have remained in their mother country to cause a change instead of running away abroad & judging their homeland from there.

You might be shocked most of these guys like OGAJIM was probably a Lizard when in Naija. Now He thinks himself to be an aligator. Sorry Bruv, you only metamophosed into an AMERICAN LIZARD with earings, smoking pot and stuff. BUT YOU ARE STILL A lizard ( Bishop Idahosa).

if I were you I'll try to cause a change in my mother land from were ever I am by at least changing the general notion (BAD) MOST FORIEGNERS have about Nigeria. Instead of feeling like a foriegner in another man's land. CASCUILLE!!!

Your bunch never fail to disappoint! You have lost the argument on all grounds/fronts and instead of digging deeper into your doctrinal bag, you retort to personal attacks which amounts to nothing but a sophomoric rigmarole or a WEAK attempt to shift the discourse. I will not comment on "Bishop Idahosa" but as Ray Ekpu once wrote about Judge Idahosa, "arrogance is the prerogative of the conceited" so I will leave you to that.

Just because your village members in America(if any) wear ear rings and smoke pot doesn't mean everyone operates that LOW as some of us have enough common sense not to dive into everything that come our way. FYI, folks that couldn't "make it" in Nigeria can't replicate that anywhere US, UK, Europe, etc. so your "lizard" analogy is null and void/case dismissed.

You must see Nigeria the same way you see CEC meaning if one likes his Country/Church, they must not criticize or point out the wrongs, even when they engage in "kalo kalo"(apologies to Zikkyy ) brand of worship/government. I don't blame you at all, na small pikin dey worry you.


Pastor JoAgbaje (I know his NL stand didn't come from Ugbowo campus) doesn't seem to be on the same level with you because he doesn't sink to your level even when some push him on this forum. If "Micuilles" wants to be a pastor when he grows up, maturity development ought to start now.

I admire DCLM but not a member, I might consider it (hence they have a branch near me now) once they renounce their compulsory tithe doctrine and focus on HOLINESS exclusively.

Micuilles:

frosbel (m) Re: Why Do Youths Run Away From Deeper Life Bible Church?
« #433 on: January 17, 2011, 11:01 PM » --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Good that you are a deeper lifer, just make sure that you are also a member of the true church, the body of  Christ.

Remember as much as i also go to deeper life and admire the church for sound doctrine,

@ Joe

Read the above statement by Mr. FROSBEL on the above topic. FROSBEL IS DEEEEEEPER LIFE. I even suspect this OGOJIM guy too. THEY THINK AND SOUND ALIKE.

So why does he teach something contrary to what his pastor teaches

@Micuilles
Pls can you forward your email to my box? I will like to discuss a topic offline

;d

Thanks brodo. I sent a mail to you

To all, I think when someone is SAVED, certain things become your nature and they cannot even be questioned. For a really saved person to question tithes, giving, manners, dress and the way you relate and communicate with others etc I think we should revisit the foundation again i.e salvation. There are many that believe they are saved simply because they repeated a prayer after a pastor and never had any conviction and repentance being ministered to their hearts by the Holy Spirit. To some it was just 'if you have never done it, come up foward now, ' Maybe its another thread altogether.

Bro Jo, I respect your resilience.

Remember Jesus said "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven"

u cant have dis kingdom and Gods kingdom

@lepasharon

Pls explain what you mean by this kingdom and that kingdom.

There is only one true gospel and it is called
"The Gospel of God"
Romans 1:1
Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,


"The Gospel of Christ"
Romans 1:16
"For I am not ashamed ofthe gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek."


And this Gospel is encompassing, total, complete and absolute.

Joagbaje:

@lepasharon

Pls explain what you mean by this kingdom and that kingdom.

u cannot love dis world and say u love God also,cos dis world is passing away!

newmi:

There is only one true gospel and it is called
"The Gospel of God"
Romans 1:1
Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,


"The Gospel of Christ"

Romans 1:16
"For I am not ashamed ofthe gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek."


And this Gospel is encompassing, total, complete and absolute.

pls throw more light on this newmi

Our culture in CEC:

1. The #Word of God has a high rank with us

2. We measure wealth not by how much you have but how much you give

3. We don't criticise Ministers or Ministries

We are fully persuaded!