crows2ravens:
■ I'm done debating this matter, we'd just keep going in circles. This kind of disagreements on the gospel is what gave rise to different christian denominations in the first place - Roman Catholic, Anglican, Eastern Orthodox, and later Charismatic and Pentecostal movements. Even to the extent that we don't agree on the books to include or exclude from the Bible itself.
I don't want to ignore your convictions that the church belongs to the enemies of God, who have nothing to do with God from their origins. Could you please shed more light on this? Where did you get the information? A text, documentary or vision?
■ You need to read Psalms 107 to see God's kindness. Vs 9-14 talk about people being afflicted because they rebelled against God's words, but when they cried unto Him, He delivered them from all their distresses. You brought other scriptures that directly contradict this. So what's happening? YOU CANNOT PUT GOD INTO ABSOLUTES. EACH PERSON'S SITUATION IS DIFFERENT, hence God's response too. He is not a programmed computer that gives same output all the time. Okay God's commandment is thou shall not kill, but [b]David killed Goliath, Elijah killed prophets of baal, Solomon killed his brother immediately becoming king,[/b] but none of them were punished killing those people.
■ If God doesn't answer your prayer when you're unrighteous, it means He doesn't answer you when you pray for forgiveness too. Since you're taking those scriptures as absolute black and white.
John 7:24, Jesus asked you to judge all things, NOT PEOPLE.
Besides, from my previous posts I said you are prejudiced. Did I at any time say I disobey the commandments of Jesus?

1. We aren't going in circles. I am telling you simply that your religious establishments have absolutely nothing to do with God yet you keep spewing stories of how problems exist in them an how they need to do this and that as if any of that matters where God is concerned.

2. God's kindness— His mercy— is poured out by God daily even to the unbelievers(the wicked and the ungrateful included)— they do experience miracles on the same levels that you churchians do —, but that does not change the fact that God's love and answers to prayers are meant only for the righteous. And yes, God is the embodiment of absoluteness—His power, His righteousness, His Faithfulness, His glory, His Love, His goodness, His Truth, it is all absolute. You don't put Him anywhere. Instead, you, by submitting to Him, allow Him to put you where He needs you to be. If you don't at least understand that basic knowledge of who God is, then I am led to ask you why you waste your time pretending to know Him.

By the way, all of the men you mentioned were recorded as having attained righteousness, were they not? Elijah was a righteous man of God; He would not have been a prophet if he wasn't. David was anointed King by God, hence He was marked by God as one of His own — righteous. Solomon was a righteous man until he later on fell and worshipped idols towards his end. So, I am not certain what exactly you are attempting to argue by mentioning all those men that you did.

3. God says He does not answer the prayers of the unrighteous means exactly that — God does not answer the prayers of the unrighteous. No matter how much you push against that, God will not change His mind about that which He has declared. God made it clear He detests the sins of the unrighteous and as such their works and prayers, tainted by their sins, are an abomination to Him. That you would then turn around to declare that God is not absolute in His detest of sin means you don't know who God is and have probably never experienced him apart from your many religious experiences in your churches — experiences which are majorly born of mental delusions rather than of Truth.

Kobojunkie:
1. We aren't going in circles. I am telling you simply that your religious establishments have absolutely nothing to do with God yet you keep spewing stories of how problems exist in them an how they need to do this and that as if any of that matters where God is...

I asked you many questions in my last post. Answer ALL those questions truthfully. They may be personal, okay. But if you can answer them precisely without simply "explaining them off" I'd be convinced you know what you're doing and continue to listen to you. But you don't owe it to me, it's between you and God.

2. It's not for you to be convinced, it's between me and my Father, Who gave me the Spirit of adoption, whereby I say to Him "Dear Dad" (Romans 8:15).

Law said "thou shall not kill". By killing people, didn't David, Elijah and Solomon directly disobeyed the law? Why didn't God punish them directly for killing? How can someone who disobeyed a direct commandment be righteous (in your own words)? The fact that you explained this away (God's anointed, God's prophet, God's chosen) means you can also explain away the actions of a Christian (God's son - chosen, anointed, justified, glorified, prophet, priest, royal).

3. My first real experience of the Holy Ghost was in my house! After being like you for many years, thinking God needed my self-righteousness before I received His Spirit. I had a message that helped my faith; I fasted and prayed (on my bed), and asked for the Holy Spirit according to Luke 11:13. That day was a beautiful day in my life, I received the Holy Ghost with evidence. I have never been alone since then.

Based on my beliefs about the gospel, I cannot hold any ordained clergy position (deacon, pastor, etc) in the church unless God specifically instructs me to do so, with clear evidence. I'm not talking you into accepting any church doctrine, no, I don't accept many of them too. But you CANNOT obey some of Jesus's commandments without aligning with a church (Baptism, Holy Communion), so by isolating yourself, that self-righteousness (of obeying ALL Jesus's commandments) you are pursuing, you might never ever get it.

You can argue this as much as you want, but take some time to take this in.
Before I wrote the last paragraph of my last post I specifically asked the Holy Spirit to give me a message for you, and that is the message. It is your choice to accept it or reject it.

PS - Make sure you answer all questions in my last post if you're still debating. I answer yours (I have nothing to hide) but you don't answer mine (you're not confident?).

crows2ravens:
I asked you many questions in my last post. Answer ALL those questions truthfully. They may be personal, okay. But if you can answer them precisely without simply "explaining them off" I'd be convinced you know what you're doing and continue to listen to you. But you don't owe it to me, it's between you and God.

2. It's not for you to be convinced, it's between me and my Father, Who gave me the Spirit of adoption, whereby I say to Him "Dear Dad" (Romans 8:15).

Law said "thou shall not kill". By killing people, didn't David, Elijah and Solomon directly disobeyed the law? Why didn't God punish them directly for killing? How can someone who disobeyed a direct commandment be righteous (in your own words)? The fact that you explained this away (God's anointed, God's prophet, God's chosen) means you can also explain away the actions of a Christian (God's son - chosen, anointed, justified, glorified, prophet, priest, royal).

You aren't paying attention at all aren't you as you seem deadset on asserting your will over God's own Will. God said He answers the prayers of the RIGHTEOUS.

■ Elijah was first a righteous prophet of God hence the reason why God answered His prayers. Elijah killed the false prophets of Baal in obedience to God's own Law which commands that all false prophets be killed.
■ David was anointed King over Israel and he was a man after God's own heart, a righteous man. David sinned against God and God answered His request for forgiveness because David was, first, a righteous man before he committed the sin
■ Solomon was a righteous man in his beginning and had God's very own blessing of wisdom and wealth as a result. However, Solomon not only sinned but he began worshipping another God altogether, abandoning God.

All 3 men you mentioned first worked to become righteous by God's standard — His Law —, and were blessed by God with His audience as a result.

Your Christians, however, have never been righteous at any point in their existence, since righteousness only comes through the living one's life in continuous submission and obedience to the teachings and commandments, something which many of you Christian abhor, as you instead have your many excuses to fall back on. Some of these are "No man is perfect", "All have sinned and come short of the glory of God and as such everyone is a sinner ....", and the laziest of them all in my opinion is "Jesus Christ only commanded us to love our neighbors". Christians cannot by following these soundbite doctrines along with all the other scripturally detached doctrines that are lies when put against the Truth of God attain righteousness by the standard set by God Himself.

You cannot manufacture holiness or even righteousness, of God's kind, by following a law or way of living that is not as stipulated by God Himself. And God's Law and standard in the Kingdom of God, the terms and conditions by which one can attain God's standard of righteousness are detailed in Jesus Christ; and according to Jesus Christ, only those who become holy, and do the good works commanded can earn that righteousness which He commands His followers all to seek.

crows2ravens:
■ My first real experience of the Holy Ghost was in my house! After being like you for many years, thinking God needed my self-righteousness before I received His Spirit. I had a message that helped my faith; I fasted and prayed (on my bed), and asked for the Holy Spirit according to Luke 11:13. That day was a beautiful day in my life, I received the Holy Ghost with evidence. I have never been alone since then.
■ Based on my beliefs about the gospel, I cannot hold any ordained clergy position (deacon, pastor, etc) in the church unless God specifically instructs me to do so, with clear evidence. I'm not talking you into accepting any church doctrine, no, I don't accept many of them too. But you CANNOT obey some of Jesus's commandments without aligning with a church (Baptism, Holy Communion), so by isolating yourself, that self-righteousness (of obeying ALL Jesus's commandments) you are pursuing, you might never ever get it.
■ You can argue this as much as you want, but take some time to take this in Before I wrote the last paragraph of my last post I specifically asked the Holy Spirit to give me a message for you, and that is the message. It is your choice to accept it or reject it. PS - Make sure you answer all questions in my last post if you're still debating. I answer yours (I have nothing to hide) but you don't answer mine (you're not confident?).

1. Contrary to the stories you have been fed by the many equally ignorant out there. The Holy Spirit cannot be described as an experience as He is instead a possession of your being by another being of intelligence. The religious experience you describe here is no different from that one experiences after smoking a joint for the first time, at least, or having a psychotic episode or a panic attack. I have experienced all of them and I can tell you that they are pretty much all mental delusions and nothing more.

2. If you knew Jesus Christ, you would know that all your ordinations have absolutely nothing to do with Jesus Christ who never called or asked any man to sit as such over any who belongs to Him. For the umpteenth time, your churches, ordinations, etc., have absolutely nothing to do with God or Jesus Christ.

3. None of you continue to say has anything to do with what was taught by Jesus Christ so how can you claim that the very same Spirit that spoke through Jesus Christ is the one who speaks through you even now? How?

crows2ravens:
■ Besides, from my previous posts I said you are prejudiced. Did I at any time say I disobey the commandments of Jesus? It is the grace of God that I enjoy.
■ I pray, God hears me, by His mercies, because He sees the righteousness of Jesus (Holy), not mine (filthy rags).
■ By not going to church, I can assume you do not take the Holy Communion, Jesus commanded that too. Jesus commanded new believers in Him should be baptised (Matthew 28:19) Were you baptised? Who baptised you? Through the "evil" church? Does that mean your baptism null and void?
■ Even now that you're all set to follow every commandment of Jesus to make you righteous. What makes you assured that all His commandments are written down? From Matthew, Mark, Luke and John's accounts, you could see they don't individually capture all His commandments. What about the lost gospels? How about the commandments you don't know Jesus gave? DOESN'T THAT MEAN YOU WILL NEVER BE RIGHTEOUS?
■ From all you said, you do not have the Holy Spirit in you. And you've been trying to be righteous for a long time, yet you keep failing because you're not yet free from the slavery of sin.
▪︎ For how long will you keep trying? ▪︎ GOD FORBID, death comes knocking now, what's your fate? Hell fire? ▪︎ What is your reward for all your struggles to be righteous by yourself? ▪︎ The Israelites struggled to be righteous, yet they continually incurred God's wrath and neglect. Jesus came to make it easier for us. He said His yoke is easy and His burden is light (Matthew 11:30). ▪︎ What you're trying to achieve yourself, is it not hard for you to do? Is the weight of unrighteousness not heavy on you - that guilt you feel everyday? Is that truly Jesus's yoke you're bearing? ▪︎ Why do you still labour when you're with Jesus? Don't you see something is wrong?

1. Jesus Christ said, "By their fruits, you shall know them..". Anyone who belongs to Jesus Christ would always instruct on submission and obedience to His teachings and commandments, and not a single one who believes in Him would suggest there exist alternative routes to redemption where God is concerned.

2. Jesus Christ never said or alluded to His righteousness covering up for your sins against God. In Scripture, God says it is the one who sins that will pay for His Sins. So where do you get off believing that somehow Jesus Christ's righteousness will deceive God on your behalf into doing that which is against God? Do you folks not process these lies you gouge on at all?

3. I ate communion in my kitchen and I was baptized by my niece while standing in the bathtub. I did it all in obedience to the teachings and commandments of Jesus Christ. As a matter of fact, I just ate communion again a couple of minutes ago.

4. I actually trust what God said in Jeremiah 31 vs 31 - 34 that He will teach His followers about Himself. I trust Jesus Christ when He said that His Truth is everlasting(unchanging) and that not one jot of it will be removed or changed forever. I trust God that is why I know that the details of His Law are finished(and ratified), just as He said they were on the cross. And I know that whatever is missing, God will Himself reveal.

5. Long bid?
▪︎ It took the disciples of Jesus Christ, who had Jesus Christ with them, about 4 years to attain holiness after which the Holy Spirit was able to come on them on the day of Pentecost. I am still at the beginning of my third year of walking toward God through continuous submission and obedience to the teachings and commandments of Jesus Christ, so I think I am doing OK so far.

6 Jesus told this story: “A man had a fig tree. He planted it in his garden. He came looking for some fruit on it, but he found none.
7 He had a servant who took care of his garden. So he said to his servant, ‘I have been looking for fruit on this tree for three years, but I never find any. Cut it down! Why should it waste the ground?’
8 But the servant answered, ‘Master, let the tree have one more year to produce fruit. Let me dig up the dirt around it and fertilize it.
9 Maybe the tree will have fruit on it next year. If it still does not produce, then you can cut it down.’” - Luke 13 vs 6 - 9

▪︎ According to the parable Jesus Christ told of the Gardner in Luke 13 vs 6 - 9, it is in the year after the 3rd year— the 4th year— that fruit is expected from the tree, else the tree is to be cut down. So, no, death cannot happen to one who is under God's very own hedge and process.

▪︎ As for the reward, the reward as stated by Jesus Christ Himself is freedom from slavery to sin and Sonship — I become a son of God, a worthy vessel for God's own Spirit to abide in.

▪︎ They didn't struggle... they, like Churchians of today, simply refused to obey God. That is what is in fact written in scripture. The yoke God gave to the Israelites included 613 commandments and teachings along with a curse that was to destroy them if they refused to obey His Law. Jesus Christ, God's New Law, offers only about 100 commandments and teachings — a yoke that is significantly lighter than the yoke of the Old Covenant. In addition, Jesus Christ takes away the curse of Death of the Old Law on all of Israel making their burden significantly lighter in order that they, Israel, may then pay off their individual sin debt to God through obedience. That is what Scripture says.

▪︎ It isn't hard to obey God once you set your mind to do it against all odds. Even when you disobey(sin) once along the way, you come to understand that the response that should follow that should be a step in the direction of obedience and then another, and so on.

▪︎ Simple! Because Jesus Christ commands this labor of all of His followers - John 14 vs 15 - 20

crows2ravens:
■ Those who believed and received Him, He gave them power to become sons of God (John 1:12). Also, Acts 1:8 - you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you. But those led by the Spirit are the sons of God (Romans 8:14) These three scriptures combined indicate the Holy Spirit gives the power that makes you the son of God.
■ It is like someone (you) a rich man (God) invited into his house to eat and dine with him, but who stayed at the gate to eat from the trash bins outside, because he doesn't consider himself worthy to enter that house, trying as much as possible to wash his clothes (rags) clean and acceptable. Whereas, the rich man's beloved son (Jesus) is saying, follow me in, be my guest whom my father will honour, take this new sparkling white garment (Holy Ghost, whose purity will also transform your entire body).
■ We see in the scripture how freshly new believers received the Holy Ghost. In fact, it happened by laying of hands in some cases (Acts 8:17, 19:6), mere preaching (Acts 10:44), and also by asking God (Luke 11:13). This is the truth, and this truth will set you free from the bondage of sin. Have some faith, ask God to give you the Holy Spirit. He will not withhold from you, He loves you and wants His Spirit to be in you, purifying you unto Himself. This is God's message for you.

1. When consider in their original context, those 3 verses say absolutely none of what you claim.

■ John 1 vs 1 - 12 does not include a mention of the Holy Spirit, not one.
■ Acts 1 vs 8 says absolutely nothing about becoming a Son of God.
■ Romans 8 vs 14 instead insists that of those who have already become Sons of God, those true among them are those who go on to be led by the Spirit of God, suggesting that even Sons of God can fail to continue, after receiving the Holy Spirit, on the path to righteousness, which is what Jesus Christ made clears is a possibility if one does not stand faithful until the end -Matthew 24 vs 13 & Matthew 10 vs 22 & Mark 13 vs 13.

None of the verses taken individually assert that the Holy Spirit is possible before one can become a Son of God, so what makes you think that putting them all together will produce such meaning? You need to stop wanting to twist scripture into saying exactly what you desire. Allow it to speak God's Truth to you instead.

2. That analogy makes no sense where God is concerned. God made it clear that only those who meet His standard will enjoy that which is His Heaven. The parable of the 10 brides is a better illustration of what God demands. Only those who meet the cut-off — those who have the extra oil of righteousness —will make it into His Banquet- Matthew 25 vs 1 - 13. All others will never.

3. I am afraid what you see is instead your twist on what is in fact contained in the scripture, and since I don't have your eyes, I cannot only see that which is written which is so much different from that which you continue to describe.

Kobojunkie:
1. Contrary to the stories you have been fed by the many ....

1. I don't want to ignore your convictions that the church belongs to the enemies of God, who have nothing to do with God from their origins. Did you belong to any church before? Could you please shed more light on this? Where did you get the information from? A text, documentary or vision? Who told you? Why are you so sure?

2. Do you belong to any congregation, group, or society of other believers in Jesus? Which do you belong to?

3. Were you baptised? Who baptised you? A pastor? Through the "evil" church? Does that mean your baptism null and void?

4. Do you take Holy Communion? How?

5. From Matthew, Mark, Luke and John's accounts, you could see they don't individually capture all His commandments. What about the commandments in the lost gospels? How about the commandments you don't know Jesus gave? DOESN'T THAT MEAN YOU WILL NEVER BE RIGHTEOUS?

6. You said David was first righteous before he committed sin. So God forgave me when he prayed for it. What about a Christian that was first righteous before committing sin? Won't God forgive them too when they pray for it? What's the difference?
- and don't say Christians were never righteous because you don't know all of them. You're generalising.

7. He said His yoke is easy and His burden is light (Matthew 11:30). What you're trying to achieve yourself, is it not hard for you to do? Is the weight of unrighteousness not heavy on you - that guilt you feel everyday? Is that truly Jesus's yoke you're bearing? Why do you still labour when you're with Jesus? Don't you see something is wrong?

8. For the 100th time, I am telling you that I don't go disobeying Jesus's commandments. I'm sure if we compare notes, I likely do more because I am baptised and take Holy communion, both of which you've not said you do. What part of that is unclear? What makes you think you're more righteous? It's total nonsense to even think you're more righteous than someone else, are you God?

9. What commandments of Jesus do you obey that makes your righteous? state them.

10. Jesus also said a man must be born again. Are you born again? How?

11. Even a mad man hears audible voices from another being within, convincingly. How is that different from you saying "He is instead a possession of your being by another being of intelligence"? Since you refer to the "religious experience" as mere psychosis similar to highness on dope?
- When you're possessed by another being, you can describe what you experienced when it happened, and your life thereafter (with the being) as an experience. The Holy Spirit also talks to you, and through you. However you want to describe it, the presence of the Holy Ghost in you glorifies God, and makes you to stop struggling with sin. You stop committing sin, NOT because you're fighting off temptations of doing bad things, but because doing good things become so attractive to you such that you have no space/time for bad things/thoughts again! Doing good brings you inner joy and peace. And this is true righteousness (holy), not the self-righteousness (filthy rags) you force on yourself by your own efforts. THIS IS WHAT PAUL MEANS BY BEING DEAD TO SIN. This is the new life in Christ.

Yes, Jesus did not direct anyone to be ordained clergy or pastor or bishop. In fact Matthew 23 - Jesus commanded the direct opposite - "don't call anyone father, master or teacher". He also commanded "whoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant (Matthew 20:26-27). It's one of major things I don't agree with churches, and that is why I said my beliefs cannot allow me to take such position.
The pharisees, sadducees and even the chief priest constantly questioned and rejected the Spirit that spoke through Jesus. They even killed Him at the first clear opportunity, despite disagreement from Pilate (a Gentile). Those were the people who knew everything about God's commandments and the prophets, yet they were blinded by the same knowledge. It's your choice to accept the truth or not.

Has it ever occurred to you that you're the one twisting the scriptures to assert your beliefs? Why do you think you're not getting it all wrong?

Kobojunkie:
1. When consider in their original context, those 3 verses say absolutely none of what you claim....

Didn't see these two posts before, so I've removed the questions you already answered and modified some...
And truthfully, some of the answers you gave were what I hoped you would, you're not off-point (I might not totally agree though). But I'd like that you answer the remaining questions so I can just make one response instead of multiple posts.

1. I don't want to ignore your convictions that the church belongs to the enemies of God, who have nothing to do with God from their origins. Did you belong to any church before? Could you please shed more light on this? Where did you get the information from? A text, documentary or vision? Who told you? Why are you so sure?

2. Do you belong to any congregation, group, or society of other believers in Jesus? Which do you belong to? Did you ever belong to any?

3. Looks like you have background from another religion? Or maybe never practised any religion?

4. You said David was first righteous before he committed sin. So God forgave me when he prayed for it. What about a Christian that was first righteous before committing sin? Won't God forgive them too when they pray for it? What's the difference?
- and don't say Christians were never righteous because you don't know all of them. You're generalising.

5. For the 100th time, I am telling you that I don't go disobeying Jesus's commandments. What part of that is unclear? It's total nonsense for anyone to even think they're more righteous than someone else, only God (who judges the heart) can say. Who are you to judge another man's servant (Romans 14:4)? I'm sure Jesus did not appoint as judge of other people/believers. What makes you think you're more righteous?

6. What commandments of Jesus do you obey that "makes you righteous"? Say them.

7. Jesus also said a man must be born again. Are you born again? How?

8. You referred to church's view on the filling of the Holy Spirit as psychosis and highness? How did you arrive at that conclusion? I know there're a lot of gibberish talk they call "speaking in tongues" (sad and annoying to me). But are you saying NONE OF THEM at all has anything to do with the Holy Spirit?
- I briefly described my "experience" with the Holy Spirit in the last post. He glorifies Jesus (John 16:14)

Just know that there are things I don't say publicly because of people (not you) who can't handle the truth. In my opinion, it's better to go to church, believing in Jesus, than to turn away totally from Him when you lose confidence in the church.

crows2ravens:
■ From Matthew, Mark, Luke and John's accounts, you could see they don't individually capture all His commandments. What about the commandments in the lost gospels? How about the commandments you don't know Jesus gave? DOESN'T THAT MEAN YOU WILL NEVER BE RIGHTEOUS?
■ You said David was first righteous before he committed sin. So God forgave me when he prayed for it. What about a Christian that was first righteous before committing sin? Won't God forgive them too when they pray for it? What's the difference? - and don't say Christians were never righteous because you don't know all of them. You're generalising.
■ He said His yoke is easy and His burden is light (Matthew 11:30). What you're trying to achieve yourself, is it not hard for you to do? Is the weight of unrighteousness not heavy on you - that guilt you feel everyday? Is that truly Jesus's yoke you're bearing? Why do you still labour when you're with Jesus? Don't you see something is wrong?
■ For the 100th time, I am telling you that I don't go disobeying Jesus's commandments. I'm sure if we compare notes, I likely do more because I am baptised and take Holy communion, both of which you've not said you do. What part of that is unclear? What makes you think you're more righteous? It's total nonsense to even think you're more righteous than someone else, are you God?
■ What commandments of Jesus do you obey that makes your righteous? state them.
■ Jesus also said a man must be born again. Are you born again? How? Even a mad man hears audible voices from another being within, convincingly. How is that different from you saying "He is instead a possession of your being by another being of intelligence"? Since you refer to the "religious experience" as mere psychosis similar to highness on dope?
■ When you're possessed by another being, you can describe what you experienced when it happened, and your life thereafter (with the being) as an experience.
■ The Holy Spirit also talks to you, and through you. However you want to describe it, the presence of the Holy Ghost in you glorifies God, and makes you to stop struggling with sin. You stop committing sin, NOT because you're fighting off temptations of doing bad things, but because doing good things become so attractive to you such that you have no space/time for bad things/thoughts again! Doing good brings you inner joy and peace. And this is true righteousness (holy), not the self-righteousness (filthy rags) you force on yourself by your own efforts. THIS IS WHAT PAUL MEANS BY BEING DEAD TO SIN. This is the new life in Christ.
■ Yes, Jesus did not direct anyone to be ordained clergy or pastor or bishop. In fact Matthew 23 - Jesus commanded the direct opposite - "don't call anyone father, master or teacher". He also commanded "whoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant (Matthew 20:26-27). It's one of major things I don't agree with churches, and that is why I said my beliefs cannot allow me to take such position. The pharisees, sadducees and even the chief priest constantly questioned and rejected the Spirit that spoke through Jesus. They even killed Him at the first clear opportunity, despite disagreement from Pilate (a Gentile). Those were the people who knew everything about God's commandments and the prophets, yet they were blinded by the same knowledge. It's your choice to accept the truth or not.
■ Has it ever occurred to you that you're the one twisting the scriptures to assert your beliefs? Why do you think you're not getting it all wrong?

1. And as I already explained so long as you have God as your teacher — Jeremiah 31 vs 31 - 34 — you will not miss out on anything. So, you don't need to worry about what is contained in a lost book somewhere that you don't know of.

2. It is impossible to obtain righteousness by way of God's standard through the following of the doctrines and traditions of men — lies that are against God — on which your religion of Christianity is founded. Process what that means before you ask your next question, please.

3. When I was a child, I did all within me to obey my mother and my father. Now that I am old, why would it be harder for me to obey my God with all my heart, mind, body, and soul? That is all God is asking that His followers do — the labor that Jesus Christ commands of His followers. Why is that so hard for you to do?

4. Again, "by their fruits you shall know them...". You confess that it is unnecessary to labor(walk in obedience) when you are with Jesus Christ yet you expect me to believe that does not then mean you live in disobedience of the same Jesus Christ? Please, take time to process the meaning of the question asked before you respond. Jesus Christ gave His followers about 100 teachings and commandments to live by. That you only obeyed one or two does not mean you are then justified in your disobedience of the other 98.

5. Again, there are about 100 teachings and commandments given in the Law and Truth of God, Jesus Christ, which His followers are commanded to obey — live in continuous compliance of — in order to be made righteous by Him — John 8 vs 31 - 36 & John 14 vs 15 - 25. If you are looking for one-off laws to obey and then tick off, then Jesus Christ is not for you.

6. According to Jesus Christ, to be born again, one must be born of water and born of the spirit(literally possessed by a spirit being) - John 3 vs 1 - 8. (Do not make the mistake of assuming the possession is with the one called the Holy Spirit because contrary to the doctrines of the religion of Christianity, He, the Holy Spirit, is not made mentioned in the entire context of John 3.) So, those who are born again, at least baptized, have eaten communion, and have been possessed by a literal spirit that wields control over their body, and being, 24/7 of their existence from that point on. Hearing voices in one's head does not make one born-again.

7. Being born-again means you are eternally possessed by another being. There is no life thereafter and no break from the possession.

8. In order to stop committing sin, you first have to have a knowledge of what constitutes sin, and that is where the Knowing of the Truth that Jesus Christ spoke of comes in, and how it is through that knowing that you are then set free from slavery to sin. The Holy Spirit had nothing to do with that process, nor is He mentioned as being a part of that process.

9. If Jesus Christ did not command it then those who do it are not of Him. It is really that simple. Only false prophets and false teachers do that which Jesus Christ has not commanded using His name, and they have nothing to do with Him.

10. Then you should have no problems whatsoever pointing out at least one of the scriptures which I have twisted in this, right? So, those who are born again, at least baptized, have eaten communion, and have been possessed by a literal spirit that wields control over their body, and being, 24/7 of their existence from that point on. Hearing voices in one's head does not make one born-again.

7. Being born-again means you are eternally possessed by another being. There is no life thereafter and no break from the possession.

8. In order to stop committing sin, you first have to have a knowledge of what constitutes sin, and that is where the Knowing of the Truth that Jesus Christ spoke of comes in, and how it is through that knowing that you are then set free from slavery to sin. The Holy Spirit had nothing to do with that process, nor is He mentioned as being a part of that process.

9. If Jesus Christ did not command it then those who do it are not of Him. It is really that simple. Only false prophets and false teachers do that which Jesus Christ has not commanded using His name, and they have nothing to do with Him.

10. Then you should have no problems whatsoever pointing out at least one of the scriptures which I have twisted in this, right?

crows2ravens:
1. I don't want to ignore your convictions that the church belongs to the enemies of God, who have nothing to do with God from their origins. Did you belong to any church before? Could you please shed more light on this? Where did you get the information from? A text, documentary or vision? Who told you? Why are you so sure?
2. Do you belong to any congregation, group, or society of other believers in Jesus? Which do you belong to? Did you ever belong to any?
3. Looks like you have background from another religion? Or maybe never practised any religion?
4. You said David was first righteous before he committed sin. So God forgave me when he prayed for it. What about a Christian that was first righteous before committing sin? Won't God forgive them too when they pray for it? What's the difference?- and don't say Christians were never righteous because you don't know all of them. You're generalising.
5. For the 100th time, I am telling you that I don't go disobeying Jesus's commandments. What part of that is unclear? It's total nonsense for anyone to even think they're more righteous than someone else, only God (who judges the heart) can say. Who are you to judge another man's servant (Romans 14:4)? I'm sure Jesus did not appoint as judge of other people/believers. What makes you think you're more righteous?
6. What commandments of Jesus do you obey that "makes you righteous"? Say them.
7. Jesus also said a man must be born again. Are you born again? How?
8. You referred to church's view on the filling of the Holy Spirit as psychosis and highness? How did you arrive at that conclusion? I know there're a lot of gibberish talk they call "speaking in tongues" (sad and annoying to me). But are you saying NONE OF THEM at all has anything to do with the Holy Spirit? - I briefly described my "experience" with the Holy Spirit in the last post. He glorifies Jesus (John 16:14)
9. Just know that there are things I don't say publicly because of people (not you) who can't handle the truth. In my opinion, it's better to go to church, believing in Jesus, than to turn away totally from Him when you lose confidence in the church.

1. I did not belong to one of your churches before as I was convinced from the start that your churches were not it at all having watched family members and folks around me live their lives in vain chasing religion. I decided I would do things differently in my search for God so I went to the book, read through, and figured out that what God has always demanded from the beginning has been complete trust and obedience on the part of men. I made the decision to do exactly that. And as soon as I began obeying God, even with little or no real understanding of much of what is written, I noticed the presence around me and things begin to realign for me. Eventually, one evening, I became possessed, and have had a spirit companion along for the ride since then. He is not the Holy Spirit but instead the spirit that was born in me when I became born again.

2. No!

3. I have none of that.

4. A Lie cannot produce Holiness and Truth of the God standard.

5. The Words of Jesus Christ are what condemn you. You said you don't labor in Jesus Christ meaning you don't live your life in continuous submission and obedience to His teachings and commandments, But Jesus Christ says those who love Him are those who live their lives in continuous submission and obedience to His teachings and commandments. How can you claim to be in compliance with that which you clearly admit to not being in compliance with?

6. Continous submission and obedience to all of the teachings and commandments of Jesus Christ is what is expected of all of His followers. If you are instead looking to tick off some sort of list, then you are in the wrong place.

7. See response #1.

8. Jesus Christ never said speaking in tongues is of the Holy Spirit at all. Instead, He said that it is a sign that one believes in Him— one who accepts/trusts in the one who was sent by the Father - John 6 vs 25 - 35. Jesus Christ also indicated they would speak languages that they had never heard. Your gibberish spoken in your churches are far from languages, and the spirits behind them are far from the Spirit of Truth who happens to also be Jesus Christ Himself. Additionally, by glorifying Jesus Christ, the Spirit of Truth(Jesus Christ's very own Spirit) would never teach or further any idea which violates the Truth as declared by Jesus Christ Himself. "By their fruits, ye shall know them." According to Jesus Christ, in Matthew 15 vs 1 - 14 & Mark 7 vs 1 - 13, the doctrines and traditions of men are antichrist in nature, and so the Spirit of Jesus Christ would never encourage any man to follow or bow to that which is against Jesus Christ.

9. Your opinion means nothing as far as the Truth of God is concerned.

Kobojunkiee:
1. I did not belong to one of your churches before as I was convinced from the start that your churches were not it at all having watched family members and folks around me live their lives in vain chasing religion...

1. You have not shown any real proof that the church has nothing to do with God. First, the bible that you read, and so much rely on for truth, was canonized and translated by the church. If the church wasn’t there, the dead sea scrolls, Torah and co. that formed it would have still been in languages you might never be able to learn – Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek - in various locations and probably in museums or destroyed. On that alone, you cannot say the church has nothing to do with God. They brought the true word of God to you.

2-4. Your disdain for the church is rooted in your family and friends’ lives. You never belonged to any church, you probably just heard preaching on TV, streets, internet, or a few physical church services. But you concluded without going close at all. Your argument is baseless. People living fake Christian lives doesn’t mean that is what they’re taught. In fact, there are many (very many) preachers/teachers whose lives are the exact opposite of the truth they teach in church. There are also false teachings. My point here is that you will find a church that suits you (to an acceptable degree) if you ask God to direct you to one. You don’t sound like you had that conversation with God and He expressly told you not to go to any church.
- I have made full membership (or close to) of more than eight *8* churches, apart from many others I attended for some time (because I relocated a lot, and I just go to any Bible believing church around me). I won’t mention names, but list includes orthodox, charismatic and Pentecostal denominations. I examined doctrines, leadership structures, mindsets, way of life of members, etc. I can say I have more information than you. They’re not all false teachers, there are many good things you will learn. As a guide, it’s better you avoid those that the name of the G.O. is as popular as the church itself – but that is my informed opinion.

5. Taken out of context. I feel like a Nigerian politician now. When I said I don’t labour, it doesn’t mean that I don’t submit myself to Jesus Christ, or that I live a carefree life of my own will. It meant that The Holy Spirit has made it easy for me to obey His commandments. I am free from the shackles of sin; I allow the Holy Spirit to lead me and direct my thoughts. The Holy Spirit speaks to me the instructions of Jesus (John 16:13-14), the ones He commanded before, this moment, and all future commandments, because Jesus said He has many more things to say to us (John 16:12). You said Jesus gave only about 100 commandments, but more are certainly still coming, which you will only know through the Holy Spirit. This is what you keep getting wrong.

6. Answered in #5 above.

7. So now, you’re saying you have a Spirit from when you became born again, but then you’re also expecting the Holy Spirit. Jesus didn’t say you should expect two spirits in your journey. “Born of the water and spirit” is your rationale, but the only spirit Jesus ever spoke of as our companion is the Holy Spirit. The only Spirit that believers will receive is the Holy Spirit (John 7:39). If any other spirit possesses you, who is not the Holy Spirit, please go for exorcism!

8. Mark 16:17 – Jesus says they shall speak in new tongues. That means languages they have never spoken before, maybe Zulu or French or Russian, or a language no one has never heard before. So not all the tongues you hear are gibberish (most are, anyway). You could read Kenneth Hagin’s “Tongues - Beyond the Upper Room”.

* You (and some churches) said you must know what constitutes sin before you know how to avoid them. That is not true. Knowledge of sin is what gives it power. You really should read Romans 7-8. Our nature became sinful because Adam and Eve ate the fruit of knowledge. Simply put – if someone hosted you in their home, a very big house with lots of rooms, you might not be interested in checking out the next room to yours, but immediately they put a sign “Private room, do not enter”, you will start wondering what’s inside, and there’s likelihood you’re tempted to enter that room when no one is watching. That’s human nature. If indeed you’re being led by the Spirit, He will NEVER lead you into sinful thoughts or actions, whether you have the knowledge or not. He will instead lead you into holy thoughts and actions. You ask how do you know how to avoid sin, check #5 above.

* On baptism, I’ve even heard of a convert in an Islamic country who baptized herself in her house, she stumbled on a bible, and believed, but she didn’t know any other believer around at that time. Your niece baptized you; I hope she was a believer too as at that time. But then, scriptural precedence shows baptism was done in the presence of many witnesses by a preacher, just be sure of what you did.

* On Holy Communion, you’re not wrong to prepare and take it in your home. Scriptural precedence also shows it is taken together in a group, rather than individually. You might want to be sure about that too.

* The disciples received the Holy Spirit 10 DAYS after Jesus ascended to heaven. Jesus promised them (Acts 1:5) that they will be baptized with the Holy Ghost in NOT MANY days coming. 4 years is 1,460 days! That’s a lot. I know you added the time (3 years) they followed Jesus from their calling. But Jesus did not give them all the commandments from day 1, in fact He kept giving them commandments till the day He ascended – meaning it took them days/weeks/months to comply with many commandments. You said it’s not hard to obey God’s commandments, but you’re in your 3rd year and have not achieved your righteousness. Even at that, some believers received the Holy Ghost UPON HEARING Peter’s preaching (Acts 10:44) and believing the gospel – instantly! They didn’t have any waiting. Some also received by laying of hands (Acts 8:14). These are evidences in the scriptures that believers received the Holy Spirit without taking your “long route” of 4 years.

Many Christians are wrongly or inadequately informed, that I agree. But if you love Jesus and hold His commandments in high esteem, you will agree His primary goal is to bring sinners to repentance, no matter how terrible people they were, not to call the righteous (Luke 5:32). In fact, He spent ample time dining and teaching sinners the word of God and healing them. Your shunning the church because they are “evil” is not what Jesus taught you to do. If in your eyes they are sinners (even idol worshippers), go preach the truth to them! The whole of the New Testament is for you to understand the gospel better, and know what Jesus, through the Holy Spirit, taught the Christians of those days (based on John 16:12), so learn from them too.

crows2ravens:
1. You have not shown any real proof that the church has nothing to do with God. First, the bible that you read, and so much rely on for truth, was canonized and translated by the church. If the church wasn’t there, the dead sea scrolls, Torah and co. that formed it would have still been in languages you might never be able to learn – Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek - in various locations and probably in museums or destroyed. On that alone, you cannot say the church has nothing to do with God. They brought the true word of God to you. ...

1. Jesus Christ said He did not come for all but for some - Matthew 15 vs 24 -... and since His message remains lost to you, I think there is no point continuing to hammer you with it.

crows2ravens:
7. So now, you’re saying you have a Spirit from when you became born again, but then you’re also expecting the Holy Spirit. Jesus didn’t say you should expect two spirits in your journey. “Born of the water and spirit” is your rationale, but the only spirit Jesus ever spoke of as our companion is the Holy Spirit. The only Spirit that believers will receive is the Holy Spirit (John 7:39). If any other spirit possesses you, who is not the Holy Spirit, please go for exorcism!

8. Mark 16:17 – Jesus says they shall speak in new tongues. That means languages they have never spoken before, maybe Zulu or French or Russian, or a language no one has never heard before. So not all the tongues you hear are gibberish (most are, anyway). You could read Kenneth Hagin’s “Tongues - Beyond the Upper Room”.

* You (and some churches) said you must know what constitutes sin before you know how to avoid them. That is not true. Knowledge of sin is what gives it power. You really should read Romans 7-8. Our nature became sinful because Adam and Eve ate the fruit of knowledge. Simply put – if someone hosted you in their home, a very big house with lots of rooms, you might not be interested in checking out the next room to yours, but immediately they put a sign “Private room, do not enter”, you will start wondering what’s inside, and there’s likelihood you’re tempted to enter that room when no one is watching. That’s human nature. If indeed you’re being led by the Spirit, He will NEVER lead you into sinful thoughts or actions, whether you have the knowledge or not. He will instead lead you into holy thoughts and actions. You ask how do you know how to avoid sin, check #5 above.

* On baptism, I’ve even heard of a convert in an Islamic country who baptized herself in her house, she stumbled on a bible, and believed, but she didn’t know any other believer around at that time. Your niece baptized you; I hope she was a believer too as at that time. But then, scriptural precedence shows baptism was done in the presence of many witnesses by a preacher, just be sure of what you did.

* On Holy Communion, you’re not wrong to prepare and take it in your home. Scriptural precedence also shows it is taken together in a group, rather than individually. You might want to be sure about that too.

* The disciples received the Holy Spirit 10 DAYS after Jesus ascended to heaven. Jesus promised them (Acts 1:5) that they will be baptized with the Holy Ghost in NOT MANY days coming. 4 years is 1,460 days! That’s a lot. I know you added the time (3 years) they followed Jesus from their calling. But Jesus did not give them all the commandments from day 1, in fact He kept giving them commandments till the day He ascended – meaning it took them days/weeks/months to comply with many commandments. You said it’s not hard to obey God’s commandments, but you’re in your 3rd year and have not achieved your righteousness. Even at that, some believers received the Holy Ghost UPON HEARING Peter’s preaching (Acts 10:44) and believing the gospel – instantly! They didn’t have any waiting. Some also received by laying of hands (Acts 8:14). These are evidences in the scriptures that believers received the Holy Spirit without taking your “long route” of 4 years.

Many Christians are wrongly or inadequately informed, that I agree. But if you love Jesus and hold His commandments in high esteem, you will agree His primary goal is to bring sinners to repentance, no matter how terrible people they were, not to call the righteous (Luke 5:32). In fact, He spent ample time dining and teaching sinners the word of God and healing them. Your shunning the church because they are “evil” is not what Jesus taught you to do. If in your eyes they are sinners (even idol worshippers), go preach the truth to them! The whole of the New Testament is for you to understand the gospel better, and know what Jesus, through the Holy Spirit, taught the Christians of those days (based on John 16:12), so learn from them too.

7. Consult John 3 vs 1 - 8. Read it as many times as you need to so you understand why Jesus Christ went on to explain that being born of the spirit is akin to being tossed around by the wind with no idea which direction it is coming or going.

8. Nowhere in Genesis 3 vs 16 - 22 did God declare man's nature sinful as a result of Adam's sin. Rather what God did was curse man and the affairs of men--- washing his hands off that which concerned man, essentially placing the ball in the hands of individuals to seek Him,God, out. We see this im the case of Abel, Adam's own son who chose to submit to and obey God and was declared righteous by God as a result. So, I can't help you when you keep making claims that are not backed by scripture.

Kobojunkiee:

1. Jesus Christ said He did not come for all but for some - Matthew 15 vs 24 -... and since His message remains lost to you, I think there is no point continuing to hammer you with it.
7. Consult John 3 vs 1 - 8. Read it as many times as you need to so you understand why Jesus Christ went on to explain that being born of the spirit is akin to being tossed around by the wind with no idea which direction it is coming or going.

1. Nothing in that verse says anything against the church. You simply cannot deny the church's role in spreading the word of God.
7. Of course, but that has nothing to do with having two spirits, or any other spirit apart from the Holy Ghost.
8. Still, the main point is that sin started after we acquired knowledge of good and evil.

I see your response, after a number of days, is more about you trying to "explain off" things than providing valid proof that I was wrong.
* You couldn't prove the church has nothing to do with God.
* You could not firmly dispute that the Holy Spirit has a big role to play in our being holy and righteous.
* You could not justify your being possessed by a spirit DIFFERENT from the Holy Spirit - this is most worrisome.
* You could not affirm that a believer must wait 4 years to receive the Holy Spirit.
* You can't dispute that knowledge is what gives sin its power.
See, I'm not debating this matter with you because I want to win an argument, nothing will I gain by that. But I know if you're sincere to yourself you'll see the messages of God in everything I've told you. Remember when Jesus first healed the blind man, the man said he saw men as trees. But Jesus had to place hands on his eyes for him to see clearly (Mark 8:24-25)....You're the same as this man, seeing the truth but it is deformed by your sight.
Allow Christ to heal you completely so you too see things clearly. Shalom.

crows2ravens:

1. Nothing in that verse says anything against the church. You simply cannot deny the church's role in spreading the word of God.
7. Of course, but that has nothing to do with having two spirits, or any other spirit apart from the Holy Ghost.
8. Still, the main point is that sin started after we acquired knowledge of good and evil.

I see your response, after a number of days, is more about you trying to "explain off" things than providing valid proof that I was wrong.
* You couldn't prove the church has nothing to do with God.
* You could not firmly dispute that the Holy Spirit has a big role to play in our being holy and righteous.
* You could not justify your being possessed by a spirit DIFFERENT from the Holy Spirit - this is most worrisome.
* You could not affirm that a believer must wait 4 years to receive the Holy Spirit.
* You can't dispute that knowledge is what gives sin its power.
See, I'm not debating this matter with you because I want to win an argument, nothing will I gain by that. But I know if you're sincere to yourself you'll see the messages of God in everything I've told you. Remember when Jesus first healed the blind man, the man said he saw men as trees. But Jesus had to place hands on his eyes for him to see clearly (Mark 8:24-25)....You're the same as this man, seeing the truth but it is deformed by your sight.
Allow Christ to heal you completely so you too see things clearly. Shalom.

1. Then clearly, you didn't understand any of what Jesus Christ sort to teach to you in those passages meaning His message is likely not for you at all--- those who cannot even comprehend by way of human language comprehension skills alone are likely not part of those fhe Gospel was intended for.

2. Jesus Christ had at least 2 Spirits inside of Him while He walked the earth - the Spirit of Life and the Spirit of Truth, but you are saying that is impossible because?

3. That makes no sense. Anyway, I think from the fact that you could not grasp the first and so many other passages taken from the Gospel, I may simply be the one who has wasted your time here. Matthew 7 vs 6 & Matthew 15 vs 22 - 24

Kobojunkie:
1. Then clearly, you didn't understand any of what Jesus Christ sort to teach to you in those passages meaning His message is likely not for you at all--- those who cannot even comprehend by way of human language comprehension skills alone are likely not part of those fhe Gospel was intended for.

2. Jesus Christ had at least 2 Spirits inside of Him while He walked the earth - the Spirit of Life and the Spirit of Truth, but you are saying that is impossible because?

3. That makes no sense. Anyway, I think from the fact that you could not grasp the first and so many other passages taken from the Gospel, I may simply be the one who has wasted your time here. Matthew 7 vs 6 & Matthew 15 vs 22 - 24

Your arguments no longer hold waters sir. You are just trying hard to throw the discussion off point. Be truthful to yourself and do the needful.

crows2ravens:
Your arguments no longer hold waters sir. You are just trying hard to throw the discussion off point. Be truthful to yourself and do the needful.

OK