Ken4Christ:


Keep up with your deliberate lies. You only quote Scriptures that appears to support your pre conceived opinions while ignoring others that even have more passages.

Hell is real and its not just about bad people going there. Good people also go there. In fact so many good people are in hell.

If you don't accept Jesus as your Lord and Saviour, you will burn in hell.

And your final destination is the Lake of fire which is far worse than hell. You will swim in that liquid fire for the rest of your life weeping and gnashing your teeth.

Better repent now and stop your deceitful teachings that appeals only to the senses but clearly contradicts the scripture.

First of all, this is a forum and not an insulting, argumentative based discussion. You can present your points without the "toxicity". Secondly, you did not understand my write-up. Please read to understand, next time!
Many people think there is hellfire where people will burn forever which is not accurate and I state the Bible view in my post. Also, I accept your point that good and bad people go to hell. Hell (“Sheol” and “Hades” in the Bible’s original languages) is simply the grave, not a place of fiery torment. Both good people and bad people, according to Job 14:13 and Psalm 9:​17, go there.
Purpose of my post is to inform the propagators of hellfire that there is nothing like that in the Bible and that Jehovah God is a loving God who does not take pleasure in seeing people suffer or burn. These propagators of hellfire belief are probably mistaking it for Gehenna which is eternal destruction for the unrepentant wicked ones.

Kobojunkie:
1. Words are known to have different meanings attributed to them based on the context being considered. In the Old Covenant, for example, the Word Hell is used to point to the place of the unrighteous dead whereas the grave is the place where the righteous dead sleep in the grave - Deuteronomy 30 vs 15 - 20 being where you find clearly stated that there are two different ends that await those who are of God's Old Covenant.

In God's New Covenant Law, Jesus Christ, however, the end that awaits the Righteous is indicated as Heaven(Eternal Reward) whereas the end that awaits the unrighteous is also referred to as Hell(Eternal Damnation) - Matthew 25 vs 31 - 46 - also referred to as the Lake of fire in John's book of Revelation. And from this, you can see how ridiculous it really is to argue the meaning of a word when a word, as already stated, can take on a different meaning depending on context.

2. Again, that is clear enough even from my previous post. Whether the fire is literal or not, I don't know this since I have never been to the place of Eternal damnation described by Jesus Christ to know this. The same goes for your claim as to it being a place of literal destruction or annihilation. I only have the Words of Jesus Christ which state that the torment is for eternity for those who end up there. Surely, something that has been destroyed does not endure eternal torment.

3. It is also quite clear about the end of the unrighteous and the unbelievers.

Sounding like there re different outcome for different sinners depending on when one sinned. Is that what you mean?

And from your assertion, you mean the righteous goes and heaven and the winner goes to a place of damnation. But you ignored the Psalms 37:29 I quoted earlier which state that The righteous will live forever on earth.

How do you incorporate that statement with yours that the destination of all the righteous is heaven

LilBlaze24o:
1. Sounding like there re different outcome for different sinners depending on when one sinned. Is that what you mean?

2. And from your assertion, you mean the righteous goes and heaven and the winner goes to a place of damnation. But you ignored the Psalms 37:29 I quoted earlier which state that The righteous will live forever on earth.

3. How do you incorporate that statement with yours that the destination of all the righteous is heaven

1. More like different outcomes depending on which of God's Laws one was bound under at the time of one's death. God's Law creates the context by which a situation is judged in scripture.

2. Under God's New Covenant and Law, Jesus Christ, of which the details are in the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, the righteous are rewarded with Heaven whereas the Unrighteous are rewarded with Eternal damnation aka Hell/Hellfire - Matthew 25 vs 31 - 46 .

What you quoted from the Psalm is instead related to the Old Covenant and Law , YHWH, and the details of that Law is found in the books of Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers,Deuteronomy, and under that Covenant, the unrighteous perish in the grave whereas the righteous receive eternal life to live again here on earth - Deuteronomy 30 vs 15 - 20. So the mentions of Hell in the Old Testament, later on reimagined to an idea called Paradise and Hades is taken from that set in God's Old Covenant.

And then there is the overarching Law that God gave to all of mankind in the beginning eventually cursing all after man fell and the details of that Law can be found in Genesis 1 - 2. Genesis 3 vs 16 - 22 is where God then judged/cursed/condemned all men for sin of unbelief and so unbelievers, all those who refuse to believe in God and are not born to the blood of Jacob are condemned according to that judgment

3. See #2

Kobojunkie:
1. More like different outcomes depending on which of God's Laws one was bound under at the time of one's death. God's Law creates the context by which a situation is judged in scripture.

2. Under God's New Covenant and Law, Jesus Christ, of which the details are in the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, the righteous are rewarded with Heaven whereas the Unrighteous are rewarded with Eternal damnation aka Hell/Hellfire - Matthew 25 vs 31 - 46 .

What you quoted from the Psalm is instead related to the Old Covenant and Law , YHWH, and the details of that Law is found in the books of Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers,Deuteronomy, and under that Covenant, the unrighteous perish in the grave whereas the righteous receive eternal life to live again here on earth - Deuteronomy 30 vs 15 - 20. So the mentions of Hell in the Old Testament, later on reimagined to an idea called Paradise and Hades is taken from that set in God's Old Covenant.

And then there is the overarching Law that God gave to all of mankind in the beginning eventually cursing all after man fell and the details of that Law can be found in Genesis 1 - 2. Genesis 3 vs 16 - 22 is where God then judged/cursed/condemned all men for sin of unbelief and so unbelievers, all those who refuse to believe in God and are not born to the blood of Jacob are condemned according to that judgment

3. See #2

Well I can say you are in the wrong friend.

From the first page of the scripture to the last, the punishment for sin whether the old testament or new testament is death.

What Adam sinned what was his punishment?

According to Ezekiel 18:4, what's the punishment for sin?

According to Romans 6:23, what's the punishment for sin?


Death has always been the answer whether in the Hebrew scripture or the Christian Greek scripture.

Saying different outcomes because of which law one was under is like saying Adam's sin has no effect on us again as humans, whereas Romans 5:12, we all became sinners because of Adam.

If the punishment for Adam's sin is DEATH, what makes you think those who inherited that sin from Adam will have another punishment or outcome? I'll need your answer from the bible.

Or did God create the hellfire later? Maybe during this our own time?

LilBlaze24o:
1Well I can say you are in the wrong friend. From the first page of the scripture to the last, the punishment for sin whether in the old testament or new testament is death.

2. What Adam sinned what was his punishment?

3. According to Ezekiel 18:4, what's the punishment for sin?

4. According to Romans 6:23, what's the punishment for sin? Death has always been the answer whether in the Hebrew scripture or the Christian Greek scripture. Saying different outcomes because of which law one was under is like saying Adam's sin has no effect on us again as humans, whereas Romans 5:12, we all became sinners because of Adam.

5. If the punishment for Adam's sin is DEATH, what makes you think those who inherited that sin from Adam will have another punishment or outcome? I'll need your answer from the bible. Or did God create the hellfire later? Maybe during this our own time?

1. So, you think God lied in Deuteronomy 30 vs 15 - 20 and then again in Matthew 25 vs 31 - 36?

2. God's specific commandment to Adam in Genesis 2 vs 15 - 16 makes clear the punishment that awaited Adam for his sin of disobedience against God. And so after Adam fell and God pronounced this punishment, it was clearly in line with God's decree as given to Adam.

3. Ezekiel 18 vs 4 reiterates God's declaration to Israel in Deuteronomy 30 vs 15 - 20

4. I am afraid to understand what Paul was in fact speaking of in his letter, you need to first understand the context of his view as expressed. Paul typically switched between speaking regarding the Old Covenant and the New Covenant, so you need to go back through the context of his statement to understand which of the laws he spoke in reference to.

5. First of all, nobody inherited sin from Adam. That belief is instead a delusion and this is seen in the fact that Adam's direct offspring, Abel, was a righteous man, unlike his very own father. So, perish that idea completely as it is instead of a lie.

Second, God is God of Laws, and each of His Laws defines for men what is sin against God, the reward for the obedience of God's Law as well as the consequence for disobedience of God's Law. The Law God gave to Adam defined all of this for Adam, and we know that Adam chose disobedience. The same goes for the Law God gave specifically to the Israelites, and as well, the Law God gave to those who will believe in Jesus Christ. So rather than looking to one Law to define a certain idea for all the other Laws, consider instead the details of each Law for information on Sin, righteousness, and Judgement under said Law.

So, in the case of God's New Covenant, Jesus Christ, we know that the Kingdom of God where Heaven(Eternal reward) and Hellfire(eternal damnation) had never been offered to mankind before Jesus Christ. Meaning this Law did not exist to men before Jesus Christ brought it to mankind.

Kobojunkie:
1. So, you think God lied in Deuteronomy 30 vs 15 - 20 and then again in Matthew 25 vs 31 - 36?

2. God's specific commandment to Adam in Genesis 2 vs 15 - 16 makes clear the punishment that awaited Adam for his sin of disobedience against God. And so after Adam fell and God pronounced this punishment, it was clearly in line with God's decree as given to Adam.

3. Ezekiel 18 vs 4 reiterates God's declaration to Israel in Deuteronomy 30 vs 15 - 20

4. I am afraid to understand what Paul was in fact speaking of in his letter, you need to first understand the context of his view as expressed. Paul typically switched between speaking regarding the Old Covenant and the New Covenant, so you need to go back through the context of his statement to understand which of the laws he spoke in reference to.

5. First of all, nobody inherited sin from Adam. That belief is instead a delusion and this is seen in the fact that Adam's direct offspring, Abel, was a righteous man, unlike his very own father. So, perish that idea completely as it is instead of a lie.

Second, God is God of Laws, and each of His Laws defines for men what is sin against God, the reward for the obedience of God's Law as well as the consequence for disobedience of God's Law. The Law God gave to Adam defined all of this for Adam, and we know that Adam chose disobedience. The same goes for the Law God gave specifically to the Israelites, and as well, the Law God gave to those who will believe in Jesus Christ. So rather than looking to one Law to define a certain idea for all the other Laws, consider instead the details of each Law for information on Sin, righteousness, and Judgement under said Law.

So, in the case of God's New Covenant, Jesus Christ, we know that the Kingdom of God where Heaven(Eternal reward) and Hellfire(eternal damnation) had never been offered to mankind before Jesus Christ. Meaning this Law did not exist to men before Jesus Christ brought it to mankind.

First of all, nobody inherited sin from Adam. That belief is instead a delusion and this is seen in the fact that Adam's direct offspring, Abel, was a righteous man, unlike his very own father. So, perish that idea completely as it is instead of a lie.

Are you for real with this statement?
Romans 5:12
 That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because they had all sinned.

I guess you mean this place is a lie that sin and dead didn't spread to all men.

If we didn't inherit sin from Adam like you said above,

1. Why did Jesus die?
2. Why do humans die too?
3. How did humans become sinner?

I need you to answer these in the context of humans not inheriting sin from Adam.

LilBlaze24o:
1. Are you for real with this statement?
Romans 5:12 That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because they had all sinned.
I guess you mean this place is a lie that sin and dead didn't spread to all men.

2. If we didn't inherit sin from Adam like you said above,

1. Why did Jesus die?
2. Why do humans die too?
3. How did humans become sinner?

I need you to answer these in the context of humans not inheriting sin from Adam.

1. Yes, I am for real! Paul's opinions as expressed in his letters are to be processed in the correct context that is God's Law referenced.

2. What we inherited was God's curse, not sin, from Adam. Sin is simply disobedience of God's commandment, as clearly explained in Genesis. Adam was the one who sinned against God, yet his offspring inherited the consequence of his sin. Again, Abel stands as a clear example against the reasoning that sin is inherited.

As for your questions...
a. In John 3 vs 16 - 21, Jesus Christ clearly explained that He came to free the world, not from sin, but from the consequence of sin, God's curse against sin .i.e Death as indicated in both Genesis 3 vs 16 - 22 for Gentiles & Deuteronomy 30 vs 15 - 20 for Israel, so that those who will believe in Him will not perish but have eternal life.

b. See # 2 above

c. Only those who are under Law are considered sinners to the Law. Those who are not under Law as instead unbelievers.

gideonjeta:


First of all, this is a forum and not an insulting, argumentative based discussion. You can present your points without the "toxicity". Secondly, you did not understand my write-up. Please read to understand, next time!
Many people think there is hellfire where people will burn forever which is not accurate and I state the Bible view in my post. Also, I accept your point that good and bad people go to hell. Hell (“Sheol” and “Hades” in the Bible’s original languages) is simply the grave, not a place of fiery torment. Both good people and bad people, according to Job 14:13 and Psalm 9:​17, go there.
Purpose of my post is to inform the propagators of hellfire that there is nothing like that in the Bible and that Jehovah God is a loving God who does not take pleasure in seeing people suffer or burn. These propagators of hellfire belief are probably mistaking it for Gehenna which is eternal destruction for the unrepentant wicked ones.

Hell fire is real and there are so many Scriptures that affirms its reality.

The scripture talks about the gates of hell. If hell is grave, do graves have gates?

The scripture uses hell is a reference for depth. The grave is too shallow to be used as a reference for depths. Hell is even deeper than the ocean bed.

The scripture talks about people being cast into hell. If hell is grave, do you throw people into grave or they are gently lowered into grave?

The scripture says that those thrown into hell will weep and gnash their teeth day and night. Have you heard the dead weeping and gnashing their teeth?

The scripture talks about the pains of hell. If hell is grave. Are the dead experiencing pains in the grave?

The scripture talks about the sorrows of hell. If hell is grave, is there sorrow in the grave?

You are an anti Christ. You are teaching contrary to what Jesus taught. And you will end up in the very hell you do not believe exist.

Ken4Christ:

Hell fire is real and there are so many Scriptures that affirms its reality.
The scripture talks about the gates of hell. If hell is grave, do graves have gates?
The scripture uses hell is a reference for depth. The grave is too shallow to be used as a reference for depths. Hell is even deeper than the ocean bed.
The scripture talks about people being cast into hell. If hell is grave, do you throw people into grave or they are gently lowered into grave?
The scripture says that those thrown into hell will weep and gnash their teeth day and night. Have you heard the dead weeping and gnashing their teeth?
The scripture talks about the pains of hell. If hell is grave. Are the dead experiencing pains in the grave?
The scripture talks about the sorrows of hell. If hell is grave, is there sorrow in the grave?
You are an anti Christ. You are teaching contrary to what Jesus taught. And you will end up in the very hell you do not believe exist.

Funny misinformed churchgoer!

MaxInDHouse:


Funny misinformed churchgoer!

Watch out for a new thread that is titled, The difference between hell fire and physical grave. If you don't repent or change your opinion about hell being real, it means you will never repent. And your compartment in hell is sure and waiting for you.

Ken4Christ:

Watch out for a new thread that is titled, The difference between hell fire and physical grave. If you don't repent or change your opinion about hell being real, it means you will never repent. And your compartment in hell is sure and waiting for you.

Funny misinformed churchgoer!

What God told Adam (first and foremost sinner) is that Adam will die {Genesis 2:17} because death is the wages of sin! Romans 6:23
It's you that supposed to repent from your delusion it has nothing to do with God's word! Jeremiah 7:31