Typically you can chat up a British girl, for example, in the Pub on a Friday or Saturday night and only a few hours later end up in bed with her for an all night show -- by the way for free. If you encounter any such girl in a Nigerian night club scenre, then she's a professional pro.os.ti.tu.te, and it's not gonna be free. Also, polygamy is permissible in different African cultures and societies. In Western societies and cultures, it is called bigamy and punishable under the law. Further, Indian-Pakistani-Bangladeshi folks marry very close relations (e.g. first cousins), in Nigeria, for example, that's an abomination. On account of these, and several other examples, can we reasonably and safely say morality is relative?

^^^^^^^^^ by your statement, yes, morality is relative.

a rotten community we see a bad thing as good.

a good community we see the same bad thing as bad.



a rotten community may see a good thing as old fashion that must be abandoned.

a good community will see a good thing as timeless, a thing to be kept.

@OP: You are absolutely spot on! Morality or Immorality is not only relative but it is also highly subjective. What is moral or immoral varies amongst different cultures and background, hence there is no universal objective definition for morality. What we do know however, is that "moral" values cannot be gained from religion, it is indeed erroneous for us to think that a great benefit of religion is that it teaches us to be moral, what a fallacious way of reasoning! Our morality or lack of it is gained from our cultural orientation and the basic norms that guide how we relate with our fellow human beings, religion has no role to play whatsoever in it.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^ and i dont know your culture, but as for me an authentic yoruba man, islam taught me leave many things that are immoral that yoruba people have practiced.

for example; many non muslims became the husbands of their late father's much much young wives, who they themselves are older than.

whatever the reasons they do this, islam forbids it. and some have slept with their wives mothers. islam forbids this.


my children cant have relationship with my wife, because the wife is his step mother, even if he is older than her.

you lack morals, this is the reason you are openly ignoring the benefits of religion.

islam teaches the continued relation with family members, and even friends of the family even when the primary connection has passed on.

I agree with you it is relative, subjective and always changing. As claremont says this is why we have different cultures with different standards and traditions.

Hi Claremont! Yes, I belong to the school of philosophy which maintains that morality is logically independent of religion(s). In deed, anthropological studies have shown that there are traditional or indigenous cultural systems around the world where morality has nothing to do with religion.

There seem to be a tendency that when discussing morality or immorality people often, wittingly or unwittingly, take the discourse into the domain of religion and culture as you've done, maintaining that  '[o]ur morality or lack of it is gained from our [i]cultural [/i]orientation, [i]religion [/i]has no role to play whatsoever in it'. Sweetnecta's crude analysis, contrasting Islamic and African indigenous cultural systems and ostensibly derailing this discourse (a matter for another time) also highlights the tripartite nature of (im)morality, religion and culture. Arguably, there are more immoral precepts in the Holy Books (e.g. Bible and Quaran) than many of us are willing and ready to admit (https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-698508.0.html). Historical peep into the distant past (including contemporary history) shows that religions (except Buddhism), the world over, have been responsible for heinous immoral acts/crimes (Christians' trans-Atlantic slavery and Muslims' trans-sahara slave trade), 9/11, 2005 London Bombing, etc.

This raises the question of whether or not cultures exist anywhere in the world which is logically independent of religion. I'm, in deed, inclined to subscribe to Durkheim's assertion that religion and culture are inextricably intertwined. The problem is if, as Claremont puts it, (im)morality hinges upon cultural orientations, how do we resolve the fact that "culture and religions", as Durkheim contends, "are inextricably linked"?

^and school of thought could be wrong. it is that same ideology that says there is no God.

if there is no God, why any moral at all? will man not be his own master and therefore answers to no one, including other men.


but we even see man being forced by men to answer to all.


all these college kids [university students] think that the world revolves around them or by their individual command it revolves. you will soon learn that you are insignificant; when reality hits you like a pizza pie in the face.

Patsey :


APPARENTLY YOU LACK THE DECORUM AND CIVILITY TO ENGAGE WITH OTHERS. MAY I THEREFORE ASK THAT YOU EXCUSE US ON THIS THREAD TO ALLOW OTHERS INTELLECTUALLY ENGAGE WITH THE ISSUE AT HAND. THANKS. PATSEY

Patsey:


APPARENTLY YOU LACK THE DECORUM AND CIVILITY TO ENGAGE WITH OTHERS. MAY I THEREFORE ASK THAT YOU EXCUSE US ON THIS THREAD TO ALLOW OTHERS INTELLECTUALLY ENGAGE WITH THE ISSUE AT HAND. THANKS. PATSEY

Love or hate him. Sweetnecta is an acquired taste 
Sufferable only after being experienced repeatedly

Sweetnecta:

^and school of thought could be wrong. it is that same ideology that says there is no God.
if there is no God, why any moral at all? will man not be his own master and therefore answers to no one, including other men.


but we even see man being forced by men to answer to all.


all these college kids [university students] think that the world revolves around them or by their individual command it revolves. you will soon learn that you are insignificant; when reality hits you like a pizza pie in the face.

In the bolded part of the above, u make sense and I agree with you in principle. But the comments that followed is uncivil and very common among muslims. That is where christianity differs.

This is what Our bible tells us

2 Timothy 2:23-26
Again I say don't get involved in foolish, ignorant arguments that only start fights. A servant of the Lord must not quarrel, but be kind to everyone, be able to teach, and be patient with difficult people. GENTLY instruct those who oppose the truth. Perhaps God will change those people's heart, and they will learn the truth. Then they will come to their senses and escape from the devil's trap. For they have been held captive by him to do whatever he wants.

What does the Koran teach or say about trying to preach the truth to an unbeliever. Is it, show them the white and red flag or what?

Sorry guys, I am not derailing your thread. I just got some time for this dude today. or do u want me to open a new thread?

Come on bro, bring out your koran and let me bring out the WORD OF GOD

yommyuk:

In the bolded part of the above, u make sense and I agree with you in principle. But the comments that followed is uncivil and very common among muslims. That is where christianity differs.

This is what Our bible tells us

2 Timothy 2:23-26
Again I say don't get involved in foolish, ignorant arguments that only start fights. A servant of the Lord must not quarrel, but be kind to everyone, be able to teach, and be patient with difficult people. GENTLY instruct those who oppose the truth. Perhaps God will change those people's heart, and they will learn the truth. Then they will come to their senses and escape from the devil's trap. For they have been held captive by him to do whatever he wants.

What does the Koran teach or say about trying to preach the truth to an unbeliever. Is it, show them the white and red flag or what?

Sorry guys, I am not derailing your thread. I just got some time for this dude today. or do u want me to open a new thread?

Come on bro, bring out your koran and let me bring out the WORD OF GOD

Let Sweetnecta be but bring out the WORD OF GOD to address this debauchery
"Typically you can chat up a British girl, for example, in the Pub on a Friday or Saturday night and only a few hours later end up in bed with her for an all night show -- by the way for free. " et al

Ka-Kaww!:

Let Sweetnecta be but bring out the WORD OF GOD to address this debauchery
"Typically you can chat up a British girl, for example, in the Pub on a Friday or Saturday night and only a few hours later end up in bed with her for an all night show -- by the way for free. " et al

OK sir, I will let sweetnecta be for now.

In regards to the british girl in the pub. I will put this question to u.
How will you feel if you find out that your daugther of 18years old has being having one night stands with unknown entities, she met at the pub?
It is called the human universal moral code of Good and bad.

or what do u think?

Sweetnecta:

^and school of thought could be wrong. it is that same ideology that says there is no God.

By the same token what you believe in could also be wrong but you don't seem to be acknowledging that. I believe morals are man-made because you can easily look back in history and see how all cultures and customs have changed to adapt to the times. For example in the past many Europeans believed it moral to "Civilize" Africans (aka enslave, kill, torture, rape) in the name of God (and of course the other Gs Gold & Glory) but nowadays most would consider that a violation of human rights. Even if you look at many of the most popular religions you can see divisions with in them (Protestant/Catholic, Sunni/Shia,Orthodox/ Conservative) if morals were created by God there would be no need for all these branches within these individual religions as morals would be absolute . Also many of the Holy Books that dictate these morals/rules/sins the Bible especially have been adapted, altered, and interpreted to exploit followers, fit the needs of those in power, and to comply with the norms of the times. Anyway your free to believe what you want to believe I won't criticize your for it as long as it's not harming me or intolerant of my beliefs.

@yommyuk Just like you said to him I agreed with your principle until

"Come on bro, bring out your koran and let me bring out the WORD OF GOD   "

Not only does it come off as smug but it also doesn't seem very gentle.

yommyuk:

OK sir, I will let sweetnecta be for now.

In regards to the british girl in the pub. I will put this question to u.
How will you feel if you find out that your daugther of 18years old has being having one night stands with unknown entities, she met at the pub?
It is called the human universal moral code of Good and bad.

or what do u think?

While I'll admit I would feel bad that's because my morals have been determined by my experiences and ethics of the environment that I grew up and raised in. You can't claim that it's a moral code of Good and Bad because I guarantee you some where in this world there is a culture that would have no problem with that if she consented to it (especially since in many places 18 makes you legally an adult).

DamiKhojie:

While I'll admit I would feel bad that's because my morals have been determined by my experiences and ethics of the environment that I grew up and raised in. You can't claim that it's a moral code of Good and Bad because I guarantee you some where in this world there is a culture that would have no problem with that if she consented to it (especially since in many places 18 makes you legally an adult).

I am not talking about the legality of the issue but the morals involved. It like saying two same sex adults consenting together. Yes, it is within their right, legally speaking, but morally wrong to most of us.

Saying that, Morality can be relative on some certains issues like traditonal beliefs and cultural practices. e.g. choice of bride, equality b/w genders, respect for elders, age of sexual consent, criminal liability age and many more.

catch 22 more like.

@yommyuk Just like you said to him I agreed with your principle until

"Come on bro, bring out your koran and let me bring out the WORD OF GOD   "

Not only does it come off as smug but it also doesn't seem very gentle.

I got some history with the guy. He has the habit of  gate crashing on everyones thread, derailing it, and he is sometimes very difficult to ignore. He comes across as an, in your face type of guy.

Therefore, the gentle approach does not seem to be the right intial approach for his sort. If someone comes against you with a sword, will you wave your hand to block the sword? No you use reasonable force against such.

Bros, sometimes a brother has to be pratical on some issues. FIRE for FIRE

Bottomline, as long as it is not malicious , I will say mr sweetnecta bring it on!

DamiKhojie:

By the same token what you believe in could also be wrong but you don't seem to be acknowledging that. I believe morals are man-made because you can easily look back in history and see how all cultures and customs have changed to adapt to the times. For example in the past many Europeans believed it moral to "Civilize" Africans (aka enslave, kill, torture, violation) in the name of God (and of course the other Gs Gold & Glory) but nowadays most would consider that a violation of human rights. Even if you look at many of the most popular religions you can see divisions with in them (Protestant/Catholic, Sunni/Shia,Orthodox/ Conservative) if morals were created by God there would be no need for all these branches within these individual religions as morals would be absolute . Also many of the Holy Books that dictate these morals/rules/sins the Bible especially have been adapted, altered, and interpreted to exploit followers, fit the needs of those in power, and to comply with the norms of the times. Anyway your free to believe what you want to believe I won't criticize your for it as long as it's not harming me or intolerant of my beliefs.

@yommyuk Just like you said to him I agreed with your principle until

"Come on bro, bring out your koran and let me bring out the WORD OF GOD   "

Not only does it come off as smug but it also doesn't seem very gentle.

Coupled with the uncalled for swagger same I thought too

yommyuk:

OK sir, I will let sweetnecta be for now.

In regards to the british girl in the pub. I will put this question to u.
How will you feel if you find out that your daugther of 18years old has being having one night stands with unknown entities, she met at the pub?
It is called the human universal moral code of Good and bad.

or what do u think?

I think that is not my portion nor yours
You know the score. Do not conform to their system but be transformed by the renewing of your mind so that you may prove what is the good, well-pleasing and perfect will of God.

yommyuk:

I am not talking about the legality of the issue but the morals involved. It like saying two same sex adults consenting together. Yes, it is within their right, legally speaking, but morally wrong to most of us.

Saying that, Morality can be relative on some certains issues like traditonal beliefs and cultural practices. e.g. choice of bride, equality b/w genders, respect for elders, age of intimate consent, criminal liability age and many more.

catch 22 more like.

Those are the keywords most of us is not all of us. The thing I added about 18 plus was just a reason why I'm saying that may not have a problem with it. Putting legality aside my main point was that there are cultures where a father would not think twice if his daughter had been sleeping with different men at 18 or even younger. I think because the world is becoming a smaller place as a result of technology our morals will slowly become more and more similar, but I don't ever think there will be a universal ethics code for wrong or right and good or bad.

DamiKhojie:

Those are the keywords most of us is not all of us. The thing I added about 18 plus was just a reason why I'm saying that may not have a problem with it. Putting legality aside my main point was that there are cultures where a father would not think twice if his daughter had been sleeping with different men at 18 or even younger. I think because the world is becoming a smaller place as a result of technology our morals will slowly become more and more similar, but I don't ever think there will be a universal ethics code for wrong or right and good or bad.

There is. It called "Conscience"

And everyones conscience is different hence the term "he/she has no conscience" when someone shows no regret for harming someone or going against the social norms.

Patsey:


APPARENTLY YOU LACK THE DECORUM AND CIVILITY TO ENGAGE WITH OTHERS. MAY I THEREFORE ASK THAT YOU EXCUSE US ON THIS THREAD TO ALLOW OTHERS INTELLECTUALLY ENGAGE WITH THE ISSUE AT HAND. THANKS. PATSEY

Rib cracking and cranking. Funniest post of the week already?

@yommyuk; « #10 on: Today at 09:08:19 PM »
[Quote]Quote from: Sweetnecta on Today at 08:30:55 PM
^and school of thought could be wrong. it is that same ideology that says there is no God.
if there is no God, why any moral at all? will man not be his own master and therefore answers to no one, including other men.

but we even see man being forced by men to answer to all.

all these college kids [university students] think that the world revolves around them or by their individual command it revolves. you will soon learn that you are insignificant; when reality hits you like a pizza pie in the face.

In the bolded part of the above, u make sense and I agree with you in principle. But the comments that followed is uncivil and very common among muslims. That is where christianity differs.[/Quote]they are not college kids? i am a father to post college kids. older friends in their 70s do call me 'hey kido'. what is uncivilized or uncivil about it? they will see wisdom in my statement to prepare them from expectations outside papa and mama's mansion and how harsh is the real world. please yommyuk, lets knowledge sink in. if i was warned earlier without being sheltered so much, i could have not made mistakes that i made earlier.



[Quote]This is what Our bible tells us

2 Timothy 2:23-26
Again I say don't get involved in foolish, ignorant arguments that only start fights. A servant of the Lord must not quarrel, but be kind to everyone, be able to teach, and be patient with difficult people. GENTLY instruct those who oppose the truth. Perhaps God will change those people's heart, and they will learn the truth. Then they will come to their senses and escape from the devil's trap. For they have been held captive by him to do whatever he wants.[/Quote]when you quote from bibles verses that are obviously not from jesus, i often want to laugh at you in your face. how is it that you can't find anything from Jesus to support any argument you are making here on the thread of morality created by bunch of atheists? is just less moral than the guy who penned timothy? i believe his man was paul and he was pretty immoral. if you have to use him to buttress your argument while you shamelessly ignored jesus, what do you real think about jesus then? anyway, i do not want to beat the horse to a more dead when it is already dead. you failed to use any of the messengers of God including Moses who Yahweh spoke to directly.

as to timothy 2;23-36, have you ever seen a true christian practicing this? a person, a nation. please name it. now let me go to the lying paul himself and how he 'gently instructed peter the rock'; either Jesus was a bad leader that his 'rock' was accused of hypocrisy by a man he never knew, but claimed for acceptance he saw jesus! or jesus truly had a 'rock' by the man called peter and paul was the darn hypocrite? or what is it, yomi?

Paul rebuked Peter for his hypocrisy in Galatians 2

(Galatians 1:6-9)



[Quote]What does the Koran teach or say about trying to preach the truth to an unbeliever. Is it, show them the white and red flag or what?

Sorry guys, I am not derailing your thread. I just got some time for this dude today. or do u want me to open a new thread?

Come on bro, bring out your koran and let me bring out the WORD OF GOD Cool[/Quote]that title is your own wish. and oh, the other Book is called Quran! The Quran says many things to many people, each being condition appropriate. in a verse, it says that Muhammad [as] should struggle with the with this Quran. in another it says that one should preach about his Lord with sense and wisdom and say words that are beneficial to listeners. this men here are not listening. neither are you listening. both of you are opposite sides of the same disbelieving coin!

i think you forgot that Yahweh never forgave 'the angels that revolted', satan, Adam and Eve, the children of Adam and Eve. nations wiped off before Moses, during the time of Moses and after Moses under Joshua, under Saul, David, Solomon to name a few. Yahweh must not be as merciful by your biblical standard compared to the author of the timothy verse you ignorantly quoted. you call this lecture on yourself by not reading your bibles and reflecting upon whatever you read before responding to me.

Yahweh is so bent on punishing that you are working like a slave to have your daily bread. and your wife will have a big pain when she is delivering the load in her womb. Yahweh of the bibles spares no one from punishment; even according to the gimmick of the christians, innocent Jesus had to die on what he had no interest on. did you notice how the bibles record that Jesus begged hard and yelled after on the tree? when you push a muslim with your lies, he or she is permitted to respond to you with facts. the above are facts, that you overlooked without going to what Yahweh did and how man was impacted before the lie you wrote from timothy! is the author of timothy in a better moral stratum than Yahweh, in your own view considering my argument and your argument? maybe you are lying just as timothy verse author is, since it is a known fact that i put forward about Yahweh?



@DamiKhojie (m); « #13 on: Today at 10:03:13 PM »
[Quote]Quote from: Sweetnecta on Today at 08:30:55 PM
^and school of thought could be wrong. it is that same ideology that says there is no God.

By the same token what you believe in could also be wrong but you don't seem to be acknowledging that. I believe morals are man-made because you can easily look back in history and see how all cultures and customs have changed to adapt to the times. For example in the past many Europeans believed it moral to "Civilize" Africans (aka enslave, kill, torture, violation) in the name of God (and of course the other Gs Gold & Glory) but nowadays most would consider that a violation of human rights. Even if you look at many of the most popular religions you can see divisions with in them (Protestant/Catholic, Sunni/Shia,Orthodox/ Conservative) if morals were created by God there would be no need for all these branches within these individual religions as morals would be absolute . Also many of the Holy Books that dictate these morals/rules/sins the Bible especially have been adapted, altered, and interpreted to exploit followers, fit the needs of those in power, and to comply with the norms of the times. Anyway your free to believe what you want to believe I won't criticize your for it as long as it's not harming me or intolerant of my beliefs.[/Quote]the only and the best place to start discussing with you is to take you back, far back before what you call the 'history'. for us who are creationists, we say the first man is Adam who was created. and the first woman was Eve and she was created by the Creator who created Adam, and she was created from a small part from Adam. now that is my human race reference point. i gave you names and details. there are still more i can give you. can you give me anything, like who is the first man and who is the first woman and how did he come about?

you will probably slap things together and at the end, in your heart, because you have a heart, you will know that you are not even honest with yourself. again, there was no atheist in the fox holes during ww2. everyone in various decree believed. to guide you to a better destination, there is absolute morality. you will find it in the absolute Book of Guidance. since you  and i lack complete absolute moral qualities, we have to go to where we will be able to know how far each of us is a deviant. the book will not be the Bible as i have correctly illustrated above to calm yommyuk. you will find that Book to be The Quran.

the Quran is so, because it has nothing that Muhammad [as] himself said. and the Only Speaker is God Almighty the Creator. The Creator should know how best the creatures should function. Is the car manufacturers that tell the car owners the number of horse powers it will generate at its best performance? how about if you put water in the tank instead of hydrocarbon fuel? how about how to make it work for you, instead of getting you into trouble as the driver owner?

if you do not believe that a moral Master, God the Creator sets up the rules of what is moral and what is immoral, then tell me who did, and provides you with heart that is emotional enough to make you attach your first love with your mother, yet she is not a woman you will ever sleep with? my mother is my first love and she has my heart. then after her is my greatest lover, my wife. you have to tell us how your heart instinctively loves some individuals and acts and yet the same heart hates many acts, part you listed above. you think if you went to a place where they kill and scalp the person who is dead you will immediately pick that quality up? consider that this same people dont kill everyone that offend them, but the worst societal offenders they kill and humiliate by scalping him so that it is a deterrence for would be copycat.

And for the questioner of what is absolute morality, please wat this video of what is sharia for your answer by sheikh Moustafa Zayed;

http://www.thedeenshow.com/show.php?action=detail&id=2042

@ topic

yes, morality can be relative.

Hence the various guidelines.

Every human has their own personal mores they live by even if they think they dont.

morality is not my relative. my relatives do not keep such names.

^ Alhamdulillah. if i were in nigeria i will be in the company of the influential.

but if you push the right button and you live in nigeria, i may just have you committed to aro in egbaland or yaba left as the people say of the lagos hospital that may be your liking.

it may just be what your doctor orders, just to show you its the blessing of Allah to calm your nerves.

@SWEETNECTA,

I wish I could find time to engage you. I really do.
Just haven't got the time.