We were first humans before anything else. Humanity will always be greater than religion anytime anyday

Religion to be honest is one of the major reasons for setbacks in this part of the world. I'm not saying we should not practice our various beliefs but I want you to know that religion can be diverse but humanity is one

Spread love today��

Extrastiv01:
1. We were first humans before anything else. Humanity will always be greater than religion anytime anyday

2. Religion to be honest is one of the major reasons for setbacks in this part of the world. I'm not saying we should not practice our various beliefs but I want you to know that religion can be diverse but humanity is one. Spread love today��

1. Scripture says God,not religion, is before humans though. So?,

2. I am anti-religion, however I am also against man's idea of love as it continues to prove selfish at each turn.

Kobojunkie:
1. Scripture says God,not religion, is before humans though. So?,

2. I am anti-religion, however I am also against man's idea of love as it continues to prove selfish at each turn.

Scripture simply means writing, you are reading the writings of random men and you are subjecting your life to it, your “scripture” is middle east men’s idea.

God is a title not a person, the name of your god is Yahweh, the Israelite god.

Extrastiv01:

We were first humans before anything else. Humanity will always be greater than religion anytime anyday

Religion to be honest is one of the major reasons for setbacks in this part of the world. I'm not saying we should not practice our various beliefs but I want you to know that religion can be diverse but humanity is one

Spread love today��

If you don't know the truth there's no way you can LOVE for real!

Everyone knows that we were first humans before we grew up to be introduced to God but then there's TRUE religion and FALSE religion. Only the true religion can tell us why there is trouble always when people from different places come together, normally a man can't start fighting himself.

So it's cohabitation that's the problem, but when did this problem begin?


All you need is a free home Bible study with JWs!

I often try to avoid responding to the same person too much, so it doesn't seem like a personal attack, but this is something I can't ignore.

MaxInDHouse:


If you don't know the truth there's no way you can LOVE for real!

Love is a biological emotion. Humans feel it irrespective of religion. Animals feel it too. There's no truth or lie involved here.

Everyone knows that we were first humans before we grew up to be introduced to God but then there's TRUE religion and FALSE religion.

There doesn't have to be a dichotomy of religion. There is truth, and there is falsehood. Determining what the truth is objectively is important. If a religion or belief system doesn't agree with said truth, then it is false.

Only the true religion can tell us why there is trouble always when people from different places come together, normally a man can't start fighting himself.

Conflict exists among just about every single specie out there. Humans aren't the exception.

So it's cohabitation that's the problem, but when did this problem begin?

All you need is a free home Bible study with JWs!

It has existed as far back as we can remember

Extrastiv01:
We were first humans before anything else. Humanity will always be greater than religion anytime anyday

Religion to be honest is one of the major reasons for setbacks in this part of the world. I'm not saying we should not practice our various beliefs but I want you to know that religion can be diverse but humanity is one

Spread love today��

Religion can be ok in SOME cases, but the problem is when people follow religious beliefs dogmatically, and put their belief above common sense and reasoning

Wilgrea7:
I often try to avoid responding to the same person too much, so it doesn't seem like a personal attack, but this is something I can't ignore.

You only avoid when you don't know what to say, this is a forum where everyone is free to express his thoughts so try not to ignore when you have something tangible to offer.

Wilgrea7:

Love is a biological emotion. Humans feel it irrespective of religion. Animals feel it too. There's no truth or lie involved here.

I disagree with this! When talking about love it may seem natural but then there are needs or wants that will choke or kill it.
God's word says "The Lord is my shepherd, i will not WANT" {Psalms 23:1} Unlike animals that live on instinct humans aren't satisfied with NEEDS so our WANTS makes it difficult to love one another hence it doesn't occur naturally as you think. That's why we need to study God's word otherwise hatred will continue to grow swiftly due to our unlimited WANTS! Revelations 6:3-4

Wilgrea7:
I
There doesn't have to be a dichotomy of religion. There is truth, and there is falsehood. Determining what the truth is objectively is important. If a religion or belief system doesn't agree with said truth, then it is false.

You are right on this but then what is Truth? John 18:38
Because there's no way you can distinguish between truth and falsehood if you don't know the truth in itself first.

Wilgrea7:
I
Conflict exists among just about every single specie out there. Humans aren't the exception. It has existed as far back as we can remember.

That's why we need the SUPREME BEING to tell us how life began on this planet because that's the one way to know if conflicts has always been or something caused it.
You and i will agree that conflicts within animals only affects the jungle but conflicts within humans affects all creatures, plants, water including the atmosphere.
Why? Because according to God's word humans are like Gods on this planet, we were created in the image of the Creator {Genesis 1:26} therefore if we fail to map out plans to eradicate conflicts then it means we are planning to end life on this planet! Revelations 6:3-4 compare to Revelations 11:18

MaxInDHouse:

You only avoid when you don't know what to say, this is a forum where everyone is free to express his thoughts so try not to ignore when you have something tangible to offer.

Thanks for the clarification.

I disagree with this! When talking about love it may seem natural but then there are needs or wants that will choke or kill it.

Please could you expand on this? What needs or wants would kill love?

God's word says "The Lord is my shepherd, i will not WANT" {Psalms 23:1} Unlike animals that live on instinct humans aren't satisfied with NEEDS so our WANTS makes it difficult to love one another hence it doesn't occur naturally as you think. That's why we need to study God's word otherwise hatred will continue to grow swiftly due to our unlimited WANTS! Revelations 6:3-4

I don't think i quite agree with this point. Sure animals act based on instinct. But they still feel emotions. Surely not to the same degree as humans, but the emotions are still there. And that makes sense considering they're not at the same level of consciousness as us.

Also, I don't see how having wants and needs will make it impossible for humans to love each other. What type of wants exactly are you talking about here?

You are right on this but then what is Truth? John 18:38
Because there's no way you can distinguish between truth and falsehood if you don't know the truth in itself first.

Once again, I disagree. Saying you have to know the truth first before differentiating between truth and falsehood is already making a claim to truth which has not yet been proven. If we want to know what the truth is, there needs to be an objective method to determine what is true, and what is not.

If someone doesn't yet know what the truth is, how else would you convince them that what you're offering them as truth is indeed true and not a lie?

That's why we need the SUPREME BEING to tell us how life began on this planet because that's the one way to know if conflicts has always been or something caused it.

Saying there's a supreme being presupposes the idea that you know how, and why we came to be. This is usually the part where I ask for some sort of evidence.

You and i will agree that conflicts within animals only affects the jungle but conflicts within humans affects all creatures, plants, water including the atmosphere.
Why? Because according to God's word humans are like Gods on this planet, we were created in the image of the Creator {Genesis 1:26} therefore if we fail to map out plans to eradicate conflicts then it means we are planning to end life on this planet! Revelations 6:3-4 compare to Revelations 11:18

Considering we're the most advanced civilization on the planet, it makes sense that our conflicts would be able to damage a reasonable portion of the planet. Then again, it wasn't always like this. It was as our technology advanced, that we developed more powerful ways to do things.

But even on the cosmic scale, we're still no more than ants destroying an anthill after a fight. A much more advanced civilization, if they exist, could probably destroy star systems. And even that is this incomprehensibly minuscule if you consider how big our universe is.

Yes, humanity is greater than religion... however true humanity is relationship with Jesus

Wilgrea7:

Thanks for the clarification.

You're welcome!

Please could you expand on this? What needs or wants would kill love?
I don't think i quite agree with this point. Sure animals act based on instinct. But they still feel emotions. Surely not to the same degree as humans, but the emotions are still there. And that makes sense considering they're not at the same level of consciousness as us.
Also, I don't see how having wants and needs will make it impossible for humans to love each other. What type of wants exactly are you talking about here?

NEEDS are things that you can't do without so a lion can't continue loving a sheep because the lion must feed on meat and the only way to meet up with this NEED is by KILLING the sheep.
WANTS are things we choose to have even though we don't really need them.
Ordinarily as humans we ought not have any beggars in our society if truly we know what LOVE means but due to our unlimited WANTS we must ignore the suffering of our fellowman just to get what we WANT. Have you ever think of the reasons why politicians do make lots of promises but as soon as they're voted into office they finds it difficult to accomplish 5% of what they promised before getting there?
Well it's because out of office they feel like doing everything right but after getting into the offices they discover there are countless WANTS they just can't ignore!

Once again, I disagree. Saying you have to know the truth first before differentiating between truth and falsehood is already making a claim to truth which has not yet been proven. If we want to know what the truth is, [b]there needs to be an objective method to determine what is true

, and what is not.
If someone doesn't yet know what the truth is, how else would you convince them that what you're offering them as truth is indeed true and not a lie? [/quote]
The highlighted is where atheists are deceiving themselves a lot!
Have you ever seen gravity or radio waves before? Well you believe these things are there simply because you've observed how they're working out for our benefits.
So why don't you think we can approach the truth with the same logic?
Well truth is what will benefit all humans when applied PRACTICALLY.
Now the number one unseen enemy of TRUTH is POLITICS! No matter how much you love to do what is right seeking your own glory will blur your senses to seeing what is true.
So the true God illustrated this in the first book of the Bible saying:

Jehovah God also gave this command to the man: “From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction. But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad, you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will certainly die. Genesis 2:16-17

This means [b]each human is free to do whatever his/her heart craves for but never think of setting standards for RIGHT and WRONG because that will lead to great disaster!

Now think of the only reason why people raise weapons against themselves and justify it the killing of their neighbours calling it "WAR" there's no other reason than POLITICS where two or more individuals are dragging over the issue of who should rule over a certain domain.
That's how to know what the TRUTH is!

Saying there's a supreme being presupposes the idea that you know how, and why we came to be. This is usually the part where I ask for some sort of evidence.

Recall the case of gravity and radio waves, you are fully convinced that these things exists but what evidence have you apart from the effects of these things?
Well the SUPREME BEING exists and it's only by carefully observance that you can see Him with your mind's eye! Romans 1:20

Considering we're the most advanced civilization on the planet, it makes sense that our conflicts would be able to damage a reasonable portion of the planet. Then again, it wasn't always like this. It was as our technology advanced, that we developed more powerful ways to do things.

But even on the cosmic scale, we're still no more than ants destroying an anthill after a fight. A much more advanced civilization, if they exist, could probably destroy star systems. And even that is this incomprehensibly minuscule if you consider how big our universe is.

Well billions have been sent to their early grave not due to advance civilization or technology but POLITICS. Each human like Isaac Newton, Benjamin Franklin and many others can discover certain things and make it available for everyone to use if we all believe in a SUPREME BEING who should set standards for right and wrong so they won't have to start thinking they're to set standards for their fellow humans simply because they discovered what others don't know!

MaxInDHouse:

You're welcome!

NEEDS are things that you can't do without so a lion can't continue loving a sheep because the lion must feed on meat and the only way to meet up with this NEED is by KILLING the sheep.
WANTS are things we choose to have even though we don't really need them.
Ordinarily as humans we ought not have any beggars in our society if truly we know what LOVE means but due to our unlimited WANTS we must ignore the suffering of our fellowman just to get what we WANT. Have you ever think of the reasons why politicians do make lots of promises but as soon as they're voted into office they finds it difficult to accomplish 5% of what they promised before getting there?
Well it's because out of office they feel like doing everything right but after getting into the offices they discover there are countless WANTS they just can't ignore!

I think I understand now. So basically, our wants, not needs, sometimes cloud our compassion. I can agree with that

While I don't necessarily think wants are a bad thing, i can see how, when taken to the extreme, like in the case of greed, can be bad for people.

The highlighted is where atheists are deceiving themselves a lot!
Have you ever seen gravity or radio waves before? Well you believe these things are there simply because you've observed how they're working out for our benefits.

I wouldn't exactly say gravity is real because it works for our benefits .. Someone who falls off a building doesn't exactly have gravity working in their favor.

I think when it comes to things we can't perceive with our 5 basic senses, we can verify if that thing exists based on the measurable effect it has on the things we can actually perceive.

For example, gravity exerts a force on all objects in space. So we know it exists.

So why don't you think we can approach the truth with the same logic?
Well truth is what will benefit all humans when applied PRACTICALLY.

I think truth is something that exists irrespective of how it makes us feel. A child would probably feel sad if they knew Santa or the tooth fairy weren't real. But that doesn't change reality.

But what i do agree on, is that knowing and accepting the truth, whatever it may be, can be beneficial, because it'll help us work with reality, rather than against it.

Now the number one unseen enemy of TRUTH is POLITICS! No matter how much you love to do what is right seeking your own glory will blur your senses to seeing what is true.

I agree that if someone is hellbent on stroking their own ego, they'll be more likely to deny the truth if it goes contrary to what they believe.

So the true God illustrated this in the first book of the Bible saying:

Jehovah God also gave this command to the man: “From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction. But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad, you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will certainly die. Genesis 2:16-17

This means [b]each human is free to do whatever his/her heart craves for but never think of setting standards for RIGHT and WRONG because that will lead to great disaster!

I'm sorry, but I don't see the correlation here. If i recall correctly, they weren't told that eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil would make them set standards for it.

If anything, eating the fruit would've only exposed them to the standards of good and evil already set by the God of the bible.

Recall the case of gravity and radio waves, you are fully convinced that these things exists but what evidence have you apart from the effects of these things?

Well the SUPREME BEING exists and it's only by carefully observance that you can see Him with your mind's eye! Romans 1:20

The effects of those things ARE the evidence. Saying something exists and saying we know the nature of that thing are 2 different statements.

For example, we all know gravity exists, based on the movements of objects relative to each other in space.

But if i told you gravity had a shape, or it had dimensions, or other things like that. That would be an entirely different discussion, and every single one of those points would need proof.

Upon observation of the universe, we can agree that we had a cause. Probably a conscious one, or an intelligent one. But that's as far as we can induce from our observation.

Saying that whatever this cause was, was a GOD, singular, who has X or Y attributes is also another different discussion, which requires proof for its claims.

Well billions have been sent to their early grave not due to advance civilization or technology but POLITICS. Each human like Isaac Newton, Benjamin Franklin and many others can discover certain things and make it available for everyone to use if we all believe in a SUPREME BEING who should set standards for right and wrong so they won't have to start thinking they're to set standards for their fellow humans simply because they discovered what others don't know!

I think I get your point. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. But basically, you're saying that our only sense of an objective morality, can only come from a supreme being.

While it's a good point, I have a couple of problems with it. For example

1. We've not identified this alleged supreme being. We have a couple of people claiming the title, but then again, we don't know if the title really even exists.

2. Saying that good and bad depend on higher being is also very tricky. Because if the alleged higher being says murder is right, then it would be right. No questions asked. That's a possibility we need to be ready to tackle too.

3. Supreme, or higher, may not necessarily always mean good. Parents are superior to their children, but we still have bad parents in the world today. Similarly, just because a being is higher than us, doesn't necessarily mean their moral compass is better. It's a possibility, but certainly not a necessity.

Thanks for your time!

Wilgrea7:


I think I understand now. So basically, our wants, not needs, sometimes cloud our compassion. I can agree with that

While I don't necessarily think wants are a bad thing, i can see how, when taken to the extreme, like in the case of greed, can be bad for people.




I wouldn't exactly say gravity is real because it works for our benefits .. Someone who falls off a building doesn't exactly have gravity working in their favor.

I think when it comes to things we can't perceive with our 5 basic senses, we can verify if that thing exists based on the measurable effect it has on the things we can actually perceive.

For example, gravity exerts a force on all objects in space. So we know it exists.



I think truth is something that exists irrespective of how it makes us feel. A child would probably feel sad if they knew Santa or the tooth fairy weren't real. But that doesn't change reality.

But what i do agree on, is that knowing and accepting the truth, whatever it may be, can be beneficial, because it'll help us work with reality, rather than against it.



I agree that if someone is hellbent on stroking their own ego, they'll be more likely to deny the truth if it goes contrary to what they believe.



I'm sorry, but I don't see the correlation here. If i recall correctly, they weren't told that eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil would make them set standards for it.

If anything, eating the fruit would've only exposed them to the standards of good and evil already set by the God of the bible.




The effects of those things ARE the evidence. Saying something exists and saying we know the nature of that thing are 2 different statements.

For example, we all know gravity exists, based on the movements of objects relative to each other in space.

But if i told you gravity had a shape, or it had dimensions, or other things like that. That would be an entirely different discussion, and every single one of those points would need proof.

Upon observation of the universe, we can agree that we had a cause. Probably a conscious one, or an intelligent one. But that's as far as we can induce from our observation.

Saying that whatever this cause was, was a GOD, singular, who has X or Y attributes is also another different discussion, which requires proof for its claims.




I think I get your point. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. But basically, you're saying that our only sense of an objective morality, can only come from a supreme being.

While it's a good point, I have a couple of problems with it. For example

1. We've not identified this alleged supreme being. We have a couple of people claiming the title, but then again, we don't know if the title really even exists.

2. Saying that good and bad depend on higher being is also very tricky. Because if the alleged higher being says murder is right, then it would be right. No questions asked. That's a possibility we need to be ready to tackle too.

3. Supreme, or higher, may not necessarily always mean good. Parents are superior to their children, but we still have bad parents in the world today. Similarly, just because a being is higher than us, doesn't necessarily mean their moral compass is better. It's a possibility, but certainly not a necessity.

MaxInDHouse:
Thanks for your time!

The pleasure is mine Sir

Wilgrea7:

The pleasure is mine Sir

I have a feeling it's time to let go of the unending argument.
But know today that if God say they shouldn't eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil then it simply means setting standards for good and evil for others is not what man can do rather it belongs only to God who said they're not to eat from it.
All of us can testify to it today as there's no place on planet earth that's peaceful despite the fact that 90% of Earth's inhabitants wants peace. So what is the problem?

POLITICS ~ tree of knowledge of good and evil!

Extrastiv01:
We were first humans before anything else. Humanity will always be greater than religion anytime anyday..


Spread love today��

You say "spread love".

Christianity says "Love"

And what do you humans do?

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