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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Politics / What Does 'Lagos' Mean & Who Coined The Name? (24830 Views)
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Re: What Does 'Lagos' Mean & Who Coined The Name? by PhysicsQED(m): 1:43am On Jul 28, 2011 |
There is no "Lagos issue." Lagos is a city in Nigeria which happens to be in the SW (Yoruba) political zone and has a very Yoruba pre-colonial history and is consequently a Yoruba city. The only issue here is that there are some people who want to eat their cake and have it too. If you tell them the city was founded by Benin they say, no it is actually an Awori city. This seems like a little bit of sleight of hand. It seems little different from saying that Warri is really an Ijaw and Urhobo city and the Itsekiris have no claim to it as they are really a mix of people from Yoruba (Ijebu?) and Edo areas who are not actually from that area, who came in and set up a city-state in a place where there were already some groups existing. Consequently, one can claim that the Itsekiris are really a foreign element to Warri!! This is putting things upside down, of course. If no Itsekiris, then no Warri. It might suck for those in Delta state who might want to imagine that their villages would be important or relevant enough to make their region have a commercial center without that group (Itsekiri), but sometimes reality sucks. This brings up a question that is actually relevant to Lagos. The main reason Lagos is important today is because of the emphasis the British put on developing it, going all the way back to the 1850s and then later when it became a capital. Now if one likes Lagos so much, (or doesn't necessarily like it, but thinks it's commercially important) which group is owed more in terms of making Lagos important/relevant enough for the British to even bother about developing it - the Aworis, who were always there, or Benin, which probably started something there? It could be argued either way, but I don't think it's so clear cut that it's just the Aworis alone. And if, out of respect for Yoruba tradition and the traditional histories of the actual indigenes of Lagos (the Aworis), one agrees completely with the numerous Yoruba historians and writers who say that it was originally Awori land, and therefore the Yoruba have primacy, but were invaded by Benin, all sorts of characters log on to nairaland to respond that you're claiming that "Benin conquered Yorubaland" and other crap that you didn't actually say. They then accuse you of "Binicentric" history, or claiming "ownership" of Lagos! This is what I mean by having your cake and eating it too. Some people want to claim that Awori Yorubas founded Lagos (although I'm not sure that I see how just being there, is equivalent to founding it), but were invaded by another group. Okay. But if you agree with this first set of people, some other people cry foul at a claim that they were invaded. That's completely understandable. So you say, okay. There was no invasion. It was simply founded by Benin. But if you say this, then some second set of people cries foul, claiming that Benin did not found it and does not have "primacy" there because there were Awori farmers and fishermen there. So there was no invasion, and there was no founding by Benin? Okay. It doesn't even matter for the present, anyway, since it's yet another Yoruba city today anyway and anybody who might have been of ancient Edo descent is a Yoruba today. But I don't think that the relationship between Benin and Lagos should be dismissed so casually. At least one Yoruba writer records other traditions: http://cefolassaocoed.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=66&Itemid=74&showall=1 There is also that question of whether the "Eleko of Eko" or "Eleko" (Olu Eko) really means the ruler/lord of the farm. If Eko is indeed "farm," and the city was named "farm" I would be somewhat interested in hearing why the Oba of Lagos's title makes reference to his lordship over a farm. I understand the the Alaafin is owner of the palace (afin). The Olu Eko/Eleko thing isn't so clear to me, however. I think paramount lord of a war camp makes a little more sense than lord of a farm. . .but hey, what do I know? I'm definitely not a Lagosian. Also, for true experts of the history of Lagos, is it true that Olojo Kosoko (the second son of Oba Kosoko) sought refuge in Benin when his father lost out to Oba Akintoye? I actually just want to know if this is true or not, without reference to the "debate" or "issue" of "ownership" of Lagos. It's an interesting story in and of itself and I wanted to know, whether, like the Ogedengbe & Benin story, some of the details are just folktales, or whether the story is actually true. Thanks. |
Re: What Does 'Lagos' Mean & Who Coined The Name? by Katsumoto: 2:00am On Jul 28, 2011 |
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Your position in that post isn't clear. Benin has no claim over Lagos just as the British have no claim over Nigeria. British influence in Nigeria (which is more recent than Bini in Lagos) has certainly eroded in the last 50 years. Similarly, British Monarchy descended from France, does France have a claim over England? Like you stated with regards to Bini descendants in Lagos, the French descendants of William the conqueror are now so English that many of them don't have any French culture or speak the French language. Another example, Rome had camps in England, does Rome have claim over England? Bini itself was occupied by the British. Lagos belongs to the indigenes of Lagos. End of story. |
Re: What Does 'Lagos' Mean & Who Coined The Name? by PhysicsQED(m): 2:01am On Jul 28, 2011 |
Katsumoto: Katsumoto The real reason I don't agree is because of what I have read in multiple sources about the Oba of Benin that was reigning at the time that Ogedengbe invaded the outskirts of the Benin kingdom. That Oba (Oba Adolo) was militant. He hounded his brother (a rival claimant to the throne) in Esan land, and fought him for decades (there is a specific written quote from an explorer which confirms this dispute as recorded in Benin tradition by Egharevba and others, but I am having trouble locating it. In the quote, the explorer refers to Esan land as "Ison" or "Isan". Concerning the Benins not having records of it, that doesn't seem to be true. At least, Egharevba seemed to have been informed of it: http://www.google.com/search?q=egharevba%20ogedengbe&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbo=u&tbm=bks&source=og&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wp He mentions Ebohon's move to check Ogedengbe's advance in (at least) two books: Jacob U. Egharevba - Concise lives of the famous Iyases of Benin (1946) http://books.google.com/books?ei=C7EwTraFJsnV0QGp8O2FAw&ct=result&id=_1J0AAAAMAAJ&dq=egharevba+ogedengbe&q=ogedengbe#search_anchor Jacob U. Egharevba - A short history of Benin (1968 - 4th edition) http://books.google.com/books?ei=C7EwTraFJsnV0QGp8O2FAw&ct=result&id=FukJAQAAIAAJ&dq=egharevba+ogedengbe&q=ogedengbe#search_anchor So I think the account of Ebohon of Ova making Ogedengbe abide by his demand that he leave Benin land was already known decades ago. I don't know how the story developed that the Oba gave Ogedengbe gifts as appeasement, but it doesn't really sound that probable, considering that Oba Adolo had militaristic tendencies. |
Re: What Does 'Lagos' Mean & Who Coined The Name? by tpia5: 2:05am On Jul 28, 2011 |
Also, for true experts of the history of Lagos, is it true that Olojo Kosoko (the second son of Oba Kosoko) sought refuge in Benin when his father lost out to Oba Akintoye? I actually just want to know if this is true or not, without reference to the "debate" or "issue" of "ownership" of Lagos. It's an interesting story in and of itself and I wanted to know, whether, like the Ogedengbe & Benin story, some of the details are just folktales, or whether the story is actually true. Thanks. kosoko was in exile in whydah [ouidah]. please lets stop all this revisionist history, thanks. none of it changes actual events and much of it is directed at potential mugus who are seeking a non-existent el dorado. |
Re: What Does 'Lagos' Mean & Who Coined The Name? by PhysicsQED(m): 2:12am On Jul 28, 2011 |
Katsumoto: My position was pretty clear. Lagos is a Yoruba city, as I said in the very second line of my post. But, the claim that bringing up the Benin-Lagos connection amounts to claiming "conquest of Yorubaland" or claiming "Benin ownership of Lagos" is faulty. Those who have attempted to explain what "eko" means according to stories that they were told were accused of chauvinism if they didn't agree with the position that it refers to a farm. It could very well refer to the farms of the Awori, but if it does, then if someone claims that there was an invasion (as some Yoruba historians also claim), then there shouldn't be too much of an objection. My point was that some people want to have it both ways: there was no Benin founding and there was no Benin invasion. That's perfectly alright. There are other ways that influence can spread. However, since most Yoruba historians have already opted for one of these choices (the invasion), people should not be accused of chauvinism for their own group and against Yorubas if they agree with this position. |
Re: What Does 'Lagos' Mean & Who Coined The Name? by PhysicsQED(m): 2:20am On Jul 28, 2011 |
tpia@: Thanks for the information but my question was not at all about Oba Kosoko, but actually about Prince Olojo. If the Olojo story is false, I would say that it's more like "beer parlor history" than anything. I have already heard the Benin account of it, and I initially dismissed it as I do when I read that Benin "conquered Dahomey under the Esan general Isidahome" claim, but on second thought, I realized that I wanted to hear from those who REALLY know about the history of the Lagos monarchy about what happened to Prince Olojo when his father lost out in the power struggle. |
Re: What Does 'Lagos' Mean & Who Coined The Name? by jason123: 2:21am On Jul 28, 2011 |
Who cares about Lagos being Benin or Yoruba land. As long as we are[b] ONE[/b]!!! Yorubas and Edos should leave these petty fights!!! The Yorubas and Benins have a LONG history together and thus, are NATURAL ALLIES to eachother. I am an Itsekiri man and I see Yorubas, Edos, Uhrobos as my BLOOD BROTHERS (culturally and linguistically). Yorubas and Benins should have mutual respect [/b]for eachother (since they were separate but powerful [b]INDEPENDENT Kingdoms) but yet come together to be a STRONGER FORCE!!! |
Re: What Does 'Lagos' Mean & Who Coined The Name? by Katsumoto: 2:26am On Jul 28, 2011 |
jason123: There is a lot of wrong assumptions in that post. Edo and Yoruba have no issues. |
Re: What Does 'Lagos' Mean & Who Coined The Name? by tpia5: 2:34am On Jul 28, 2011 |
PhysicsQED: kosoko had about 35 children. in what way is this olojo more important than the other ones, some of who could have also headed to the north or elsewhere in nigeria. besides, at that time the bights of biafra and benin were administered from fernando po and there was constant insecurity in the lagos region due to the war between abeokuta and dahomey. in addition, three of kosoko's sons were in bahia, brazil. |
Re: What Does 'Lagos' Mean & Who Coined The Name? by Redman44(m): 2:53am On Jul 28, 2011 |
@All There is no way the Benin Conquest of Lagos at a certain point in Nigerian History can be dismissed. Benin influenced Lagos in a lot of ways. If you take your time to study Benin History deeply, you'll realize that the Benin Empire was very adventurous and had a highly disciplined Army. I don't much about the Ogedengbe Assault on Benin but I know that Benin was not conquered by any Nigerian City State or Tribe. The Bini people built a moat around the capital that virtually deterred their enemies from waging war on them. It was the British Army that finally subdued the Benin Kingdom ( By Artillery Bombardment ) during the reign of Oba Ovenramwen Nogbaisi. As for the Aworis of Lagos, it appears they were not a strong people Militarily for them to be assaulted by the Ijebus, the Egbas and Dahomey. People have said the Aworis were farmers. Where were their farming lands, if Lagos had so many lagoons and lakes? It should be noted that the original Lagos did not include places like Epe, Ikorodu, Ketu, Ifako etc ( Primarily settlements founded by Ijebu or Oyo people ). It appears some people are failing to reason despite the glaring evidence before them. Yeah, Lagos is a Yoruba City but it was a vassal state of the Benin Kingdom at a certain period. Cheers. 1 Like |
Re: What Does 'Lagos' Mean & Who Coined The Name? by jason123: 3:10am On Jul 28, 2011 |
Katsumoto:Thanks for the reassurance. |
Re: What Does 'Lagos' Mean & Who Coined The Name? by ektbear: 3:14am On Jul 28, 2011 |
These lagos threads are always pretty fun to read. Yeah jason123, I've never heard of any sort of beef between Yoruba and Bini people before. Aside from the fact that we seem to be extremely popular with their women |
Re: What Does 'Lagos' Mean & Who Coined The Name? by kindla(f): 11:17am On Jul 28, 2011 |
L-LOVE A-ALL G-GIRLS O-ON S-SUNDAY. |
Re: What Does 'Lagos' Mean & Who Coined The Name? by Lexzycane(m): 11:44am On Jul 28, 2011 |
This has been interesting and educating. Tanx y'all. |
Re: What Does 'Lagos' Mean & Who Coined The Name? by Tennyrank(m): 12:40pm On Jul 28, 2011 |
According to wikipedia, Lagos (Portuguese pronunciation: [ˈlaɣuʃ], literally means"Lakes", from the Latin "Laccobriga" It is a city in Nigeria and also a town and a municipality at the mouth of Bensafrim River along the Atlantic Ocean, in the region of the Algarve, in Algarve's Barlavento (windward), Southern Portugal.[1]. The later like the Nigeria Lagos is a historic (Portuguese Discoveries) and touristic city, full of beaches.The majority of the population lives along the coastal line and works in tourism and services. The Nigeria Lagos and the counterpart in Portugal share a number of similarities which may have informed the portuguese who first discovered Lagos to so name it. Lagos remains the most visited city in Nigeria like it's counterpart which is one of the most visited cities in the Algarve and Portugal, due to its big variety of beaches, bars, restaurants, and hotels. It is also renowned for its vibrant nightlife and parties. While the Nigerian Lagos was the point of exit, at a point for West Africa slaves, it,s look-like in Portugalt the first point of entrance for African slaves in the post-medieval Europe. Just as we have Lagos marina in Nigeria, so is in Portugal.The Lagos also have plenty of cultural and night-life entertainment venues. Many local traditions are celebrated, ranging from architecture to gastronomy and handicrafts. Both have many natural interest sites. As for the name Eko means war camp in Benin. It is worthy of note that part of the present day Ibo, Yoruba including Lagos and Kogi State were conquered by the Benin empire while the Oyo empire struglle to retain it,s area as well as the Ijebus, |
Re: What Does 'Lagos' Mean & Who Coined The Name? by isquar3d3(m): 4:56pm On Jul 28, 2011 |
This thread was hijacked by d numerous owl-eyed homunculus' on nland. At d end of d day, most of us leave d thread more confused dan wen we entered. |
Re: What Does 'Lagos' Mean & Who Coined The Name? by cosby07: 10:04pm On Jul 28, 2011 |
redman; stop been silly and tribalistic, i love and study history, against all odd the benin played a role in history of Lagos but the foundation are the Aworis, badagry ( Egun), ijebus but interms of the Oba and chief dress, they are borrowed culture from Benin, even the Eyo of today is originally from the ijebus but branded it including change of clothes and all that. but the amazing thing about lagos is they are all settlers because its a farm land |
Re: What Does 'Lagos' Mean & Who Coined The Name? by wotsop: 11:38pm On Jul 28, 2011 |
excellent7 you be a professor of history. |
Re: What Does 'Lagos' Mean & Who Coined The Name? by Nobody: 1:34am On Jul 29, 2011 |
This Lagos issue again? Lagos is a Yoruba land, Please stop making reference to Oba as a Benin connection really, " Oba of Benin" is English and Oba means king in Yoruba land, Oba okunade Sijuade, Oba etc, Oba of Oyo (Alaafin of Oyo), Oba of ife (Ooni of ife), What is the title of the Oba of Benin again? Now, Benin was present in Lagos but so were they in Ondo, Ekiti and Oyo. The influence they had in Yoruba land is equal to that which Yoruba had in their land, Benin's influence in Lagos is same as Benin's influence in a few other Yoruba settlements. So no need to revise history to get primacy in Lagos. It's a Yoruba land, run and ruled by the Yorubas from all over Yoruba land. But my question remains, why Lagos? Yorubas settled along the coast as you can see them in Togo, Ghana, Benin all along the coasts, It shouldn't be a thing of doubt that Lagos is Yoruba land. But Benin had influence; though not anymore, they did once, It doesn't mean Benin people are coming to claim Lagos from the Yoruba natives. It just means the Bini people had a hand in pre colonial Lagos. It doesn't mean they controlled Lagos or conquered the land, No fuss so chill!!! Welcome to Yoruba land our Bini brothers, Stop revising history. I will welcome Bini people anyday than the "Lagos is a no man's land" nut jobs trooping in by the thousands monthly. There are Bini guys in Akure more than there are in Lagos and Benin had influences in Akure than they did in Lagos why aren't they claiming they "found" Akure? It's just Lagos, because of it's beauty!! |
Re: What Does 'Lagos' Mean & Who Coined The Name? by Katsumoto: 1:40am On Jul 29, 2011 |
PhysicsQED: PhysicsABC>>>XYZ I have since found out that General Ebohon I will share with you another time. |
Re: What Does 'Lagos' Mean & Who Coined The Name? by PhysicsQED(m): 3:10am On Jul 29, 2011 |
@ Olumide What is the Benin word for king? Do you think it's not "Oba"? If there is some other word, please let us know. Nobody is revising history anywhere. All that was asked was what "eko" meant, and some people went haywire when some other people tried to explain it to them. If you want to believe that some Awori farms would have made a city that had relevance to "Yorubas from all over Yoruba land" without any Benin involvement, you're welcome to your beliefs, but don't get all worked up when others disagree with such a shaky hypothesis. @ Katsumoto I would appreciate it if you could expound on these alleged "bribes" and "gifts." Ebohon of Ova held his rank for a reason, and the same Oba Adolo even later used him (Ebohon) to put a very bloody end to an uprising in the Esan area. In fact, come to think of it, the Esan alone could have defeated Ogedengbe, not to talk of Benin. The whole idea of Ogedengbe as some sort of threat to Benin seems like manufactured folktales to me. Think about Asoro who held the British at bay, and the Ologbosere who attacked them without hesitation, and you'll understand that there was no flinching from battle on the part of Benin. The Nupes raided Northern Edo state, and they were defeated in battle by the Esan, and that's why their raids never got any further than Edo north. If you've ever read Clapperton's journal, where he describes a Nupe battle, you'll understand that the Nupes were a more formidable force than Ogedengbe's army. Also read up on how the Esan fought the British and you'll have a more realistic perspective. Ogedengbe could not even have been ruffled the Esan (which had General Isidahomen), not to talk of being a threat to a stronger kingdom like Benin. |
Re: What Does 'Lagos' Mean & Who Coined The Name? by tpia5: 3:13am On Jul 29, 2011 |
eko means oko, meaning farm. pepper used to be a very valuable commodity in the middle ages and spices were almost worth their weight in gold back then. |
Re: What Does 'Lagos' Mean & Who Coined The Name? by Katsumoto: 3:26am On Jul 29, 2011 |
PhysicsQED: Dude, You couldn't tell I was messing with you? BTW, stop that conjecturing about the Nupes being more formidable that Ogedengbe's Army. Fact is that Ogedengbe did not battle the Nupes so we can't say who was stronger on that basis. But if we are to conduct simple analysis; Ogedengbe battled Ibadan to a standstill in the Kiriji wars, the same Ibadan that defeated the Fulanis. Or do you want to argue that the Nupes with their small kingdom were more powerful than the Caliphate? Secondly, we know that Ogedengbe moved his Army towards Benin. Do you think Ogedengbe was drunk when he made that move? It might have been a gamble but it was a gamble he felt could pay off. If Benin did not feel that Ogedengbe posed considerable threat, then MILITANT Benin would have crushed him just for the insult of threatening Benin. Or what other reason can you put forward for Benin's inaction? |
Re: What Does 'Lagos' Mean & Who Coined The Name? by Nobody: 4:52am On Jul 29, 2011 |
PhysicsQED: Lol but the kings in ancient Igodomigodo weren't called Oba, Oba is not a Benin word, the proof is there in the story of your prince's son who he sent back, He made himself Oba not Ogiso because he speaks Yoruba and not Bini, Ogiso was the name you guys call your kings, It was the Yoruba raised Bini man who changed it to Oba, Either you don't know, or you are lying in denial, |
Re: What Does 'Lagos' Mean & Who Coined The Name? by PhysicsQED(m): 5:25am On Jul 29, 2011 |
0lumide: Ogiso does not mean "king." It is a specific title meaning ruler from the sky (or lord of the sky). It doesn't mean king anymore than Olurin means king of the Ijebu. I don't see how referring to a king by his title means that the title itself is the word for king. The title of the unsuccessful first dynasty was dropped. If the prince's son was following Yoruba conventions with regard to kings, why didn't he take one of those much talked about "unique" titles that Yoruba kings have? Why only Oba? Deji, Awujale, Alaafin, Ooni, Owa Obokun, etc., but he only takes "Oba" when he should have taken a Yoruba title as a Yoruba king? I don't really see it. |
Re: What Does 'Lagos' Mean & Who Coined The Name? by PhysicsQED(m): 5:53am On Jul 29, 2011 |
Katsumoto: 1. It didn't actually seem like you were joking, but I see it now. 2. It's not about size. The Caliphate was utterly crushed by both Borno and Fundah in two (unrelated) important battles. I will post evidence of this in a later post. The Nupe were not much smaller than Borno, and Borno repeatedly held off the Caliphate and even had them on the run on some occasions. The point is, this Caliphate reverence should stop because their military prowess was somewhat exaggerated. That the Nupes did not defeat the Caliphate had very little to do with the actual military capability of the Caliphate. 3. The Nupes were bested by the Caliphate in the same way that Illorin was bested by the Caliphate. The Fulanis wormed their way in as "scholars" and then used deception and division just as they did at Illorin. They never fought a unified Nupe, but instead Mallam Dendo (a Fulani) chipped away at the two rival, warring factions of Nupeland, and his sons later usurped the throne with little effort. The situation with Nupe and Mallam Dendo was very similar to that of Illorin and Alimi. They never fought a unified Nupe, and if they had, they probably would have had to face some assistance/reinforcements from Benin, which had a shadowy kind of alliance with the Igala and the Nupe (the Igala and Nupe were historical allies). I'll post a quote with regard to this later. 4. I was actually wrong about it being the Nupes that Clapperton referred to. I just looked at the book (pdf) again and it was actually Fundah (which was even smaller than Nupe) that crushed the Fulani (and they even had Sultan Bello himself scampering for his dear life) when they tried to attack. I confused the two. In fact, at the time that the Nupe invaded the northern Edo area, they were part of the Caliphate and their king was of Fulani descent (descended from Mallam Dendo). So they were merely an extension of the Caliphate. But they were routed when they tried to advance further into Esan land. 5. As for "crushing him" just for the "insult," that's not that likely considering that this presupposes that Benin considered it worth the effort. When you invade and sack a kingdom, there are certain rewards. When you chase down a large roving army, what particular reward do you get for all your troubles? |
Re: What Does 'Lagos' Mean & Who Coined The Name? by Nobody: 6:12am On Jul 29, 2011 |
PhysicsQED: because the Bini don't understand his language and the term he used to describe himself might have died out in Bini because his son, Eweka, will probably be Bini too and not speak Yoruba, The main thing here is the fact that the Oba dynasty only started when the Yoruba only speaking bini prince started ruling, Hope now you know Oba is a Yoruba word, Oba dynasty only started when The prince who spoke only Yoruba because he was raised in Yoruba land started ruling, If Oba was the word Bini people used, how come the first dynasty of Igodomigodo wasn't Oba? Ogiso was what Bini people called their ruler because they believed the ruler came from the sky, which is highly plausible considering many documentaries based on Sumerian gospel talks about visitations from people of another planet, Some Yorubas believe Oduduwa and Obatala came fromthe skies though Obatala existed looooong b4 Oduduwa, just some stooopid propaganda pitching them against each other, That is mostly done why Islamic Yorubas who like to believe Oduduwa came from mecca thereby trying to make Obatala seem less powerful Oduduwa according to them ruled over obatala, |
Re: What Does 'Lagos' Mean & Who Coined The Name? by PhysicsQED(m): 6:19am On Jul 29, 2011 |
The Caliphate and the Fulanis versus Borno: "The custom of giving and receiving That's 1. |
Re: What Does 'Lagos' Mean & Who Coined The Name? by PhysicsQED(m): 6:36am On Jul 29, 2011 |
0lumide: Why would the first dynasty be "Oba dynasty"? I don't even get this. Why would their specific title (Ogiso) be ignored when referring to them? There isn't some other word for king that I know of, anyway. And what I want to know is why he didn't take a specific Yoruba title. How will the imported word (oba) survive, but the "term he used to describe himself" (the title) won't? Isn't that just assuming? My point is, he could have and should have taken a unique Yoruba title, but instead, he merely dropped the title of the unsuccessful predecessors. The unique title would not have been misunderstood any more than the word oba was misunderstood if oba was a foreign word to begin with. Or would he have taken some ridiculously long title composed of two whole sentences of Yoruba? No. It would probably have been formed from one, two or three words (or just from the beginning words of a short sentence, at the most) like most of the other Yoruba kings' titles, and so it would not have been much more complex than the "foreign" word oba itself. If the "imported" word oba survived, whatever title he described himself with should have survived as well, especially considering the extent of the Oba's power and influence. For an example of what I'm talking about, the Elawure of Usen's title (Elawure) comes from "Olu Awure" which very much seems to be Yoruba. The Oba of Benin should have a similar title if I should accept your premise, but he doesn't. That's an issue which you need to explain convincingly. |
Re: What Does 'Lagos' Mean & Who Coined The Name? by PhysicsQED(m): 6:44am On Jul 29, 2011 |
The Caliphate and the Fulanis versus Fundah (which was smaller than Nupe): "WAR WITH FUNDAH. |
Re: What Does 'Lagos' Mean & Who Coined The Name? by PhysicsQED(m): 6:58am On Jul 29, 2011 |
^^^^ That's two. The Caliphate was overrated. The Fulanis eventually overcame Nupe, but only because of pre-existing infighting among the Nupe and the efforts of Mallam Dendo to support different factions for his own personal gain (which is clever, but only possible because of the pre-existing infighting). The Fulanis only beat Nupe through division and deception. I suspect that the fate they met at the hands of Borno and the smaller Fundah would have met them if they had tried to face a united Nupe that was allied with both Igala and Benin. "Tabria consists of two towns, lying on the ^^^ Of course, Lander's speculation turned out to be incorrect, and Mallam Dendo manipulated the whole situation to his advantage and the king of the Nupe went on to be a Fulani. But still, it gives an idea of the kind of alliances Nupe had that could have made a real Caliphate military conquest against a united Nupe kingdom unlikely. In fact, we should recall that at one point in the past, the Nupe were a very very serious threat to Oyo. So size isn't an issue. I think Nupe would have manhandled the Caliphate militarily if elements of their divided kingdom had not been co-opted politically by "agents" of the Caliphate on multiple occasions. |
Re: What Does 'Lagos' Mean & Who Coined The Name? by Nobody: 7:01am On Jul 29, 2011 |
PhysicsQED: What will be your reference to the fact that all of Yorubas call their kings kabiyesi and oba? That bini had influence in all of Yoruba? And if you read my last comment well, you will see that I stated that it is highly possible that the title he chosed died with him because he was probably the only Yoruba speaker in Benin, Also, he probably didn't know what to call the land described as Igodomigodo, what? oluigodomigodo of igodomigodo? lol duuude!! Benin is a new name for an ancient city, Oba is what Yorubas call their kings, all Yorubas, considering that the man speaks yoruba, he might have called himself simple Oba, Hi dad probably told him "lo je oba , " which means go and become king , Since Yoruba was his language, he has to call himself Oba, Iya Oba is not a Benin term but didn't a king give his mom that title? That's to show you the Yoruba speaking in the palace, Iya means mother in Yoruba depending how you call (Iya can mean sufferin), Iya is not mother in Benin but is mother in Yoruba, |
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