While Western Muslims assure us that Islam supports human rights, minority rights, women's rights, etc., the evidence continues to show otherwise. Again and again, Muslim clerics condemn legal efforts to protect children from being married off and raped by much older men. Raymond Ibrahim has the latest over at Jihad Watch.

**********************************************************

Muslim "child-marriage"—euphemism for pedophilia—is making headlines again, at least in Arabic media: Dr. Salih bin Fawzan, a prominent cleric and member of Saudi Arabia's highest religious council, just issued a fatwa asserting that there is no minimum age for marriage, and that girls can be married "even if they are in the cradle."

Appearing in Saudi papers on July 13, the fatwa complains that "Uninformed interference with Sharia rulings by the press and journalists is on the increase, posing dire consequences to society, including their interference with the question of marriage to small girls who have not reached maturity, and their demand that a minimum age be set for girls to marry."

Fawzan insists that nowhere does Sharia set an age limit for marrying girls: like countless Muslim scholars before him, he relies on Koran 65:4, which discusses marriage to females who have not yet begun menstruating (i.e., are prepubescent) and the fact that Muhammad, Islam's role model, married Aisha when she was 6-years-old, "consummating" the marriage—or, in modern parlance, raping her—when she was 9.

The point of the Saudi fatwa, however, is not that girls as young as 9 can have sex, based on Muhammad's example, but rather that there is no age limit whatsoever; the only question open to consideration is whether the girl is physically capable of handling her husband/rapist. Fawzan documents this point by quoting Ibn Batal's authoritative exegesis of Sahih Bukhari:

The ulema [Islam's interpreters] have agreed that it is permissible for fathers to marry off their small daughters, even if they are in the cradle. But it is not permissible for their husbands to have sex with them unless they are capable of being placed beneath and bearing the weight of the men. And their capability in this regard varies based on their nature and capacity. Aisha was 6 when she married the prophet, but he had sex with her when she was 9 [i.e., when she was deemed capable].

Fawzan concludes his fatwa with a warning: "It behooves those who call for setting a minimum age for marriage to fear Allah and not contradict his Sharia, or try to legislate things Allah did not permit. For laws are Allah's province; and legislation is his excusive right, to be shared by none other. And among these are the rules governing marriage."

Fawzan, of course, is not the first to insist on the legitimacy of pedophilia in Islam. Even the former grand mufti of Saudi Arabia supported "child-marriage," since "the Koran and Sunna document it."

Nor is this just some theoretic, theological point; the lives of many young girls are being destroyed because of this ruling. Recall, for instance, the 13-year-old girl who died while her much older husband was copulating with her (it was later revealed that, due to her reluctance, he was tying her up and "raping" her—as if there is another way to describe sex with children); or the 12-year-old who died giving birth to a stillborn; or the 10-year-old who made headlines by hiding out from her 80-year-old "husband."

Then there are the countless anonymous girls who do nothing to warrant any media attention—such as die—and have learned to live with their elderly husbands pawing at them, like, no doubt, the girl who married Islam's most popular cleric, Yusuf Qaradawi, when she was 14.

What do we make of the fact that it is always Islam's religious, authoritative voices—not aberrant voices, not "terrorists," "extremists," or any other euphemism coined for the occasion—that are constantly demonstrating Sharia's savageries? Weeks before this fatwa, a female politician and activist in Kuwait called for institutionalizing sex-slavery (recommending that Muslims buy and sell female Russian captives from the Chechnya war); a popular Egyptian preacher not only said the same thing, but added that the solution to Islam's poverty is to go on jihad and plunder the lives and possessions of infidels.

Sounds odd? Perhaps; but it is perfectly consistent. After all, distilled and in the eyes of the non-believer, Sharia law is nothing less than a legal system built atop the words and deeds of a 7th century Arab, whose behavior—from pedophilia and sex-slavery to war mongering and plundering—was very much that of a 7th century Arab. Having enticed or enslaved his contemporaries into following him, his teachings continue to entice and enslave their descendants; and, now as then, it is always the innocent who suffer.

This is how they treat women in the middle east

@op and frosbel; A person can give fatwa all day long. That does not mean he will be followed or be accepted from him. A true fatwa has to be anchored in Quran and Sunnah, otherwise it is bad science as they say. This is unacceptable.

To claim that there is no age of marriage of female to male is saying that there is no age of marriage of male to female also. After all marriage is between the two genders and the male is the one paying the dowry, always. In all the verses of the Quran and the examples in the Sunnah/Hadith that deal with marriage, I do not see a single one that says marriage should be forced on any party. Hence, the one getting married had to understand what marriage is and willing to enter it because there is a contract to abide with that protects the rights of the male and the female.

What the arabs do, is what the arabs do. This will not be acceptable to Islam, even if all the arabs and Muslims were to do it; all of them will be termed deviants. Period. Islam stands alone and complete and no one can change it.

Below is a verse that provides evidence that age is required for marriage; Surah 4 [Nisaa]

4:3 And if you fear that you will not deal justly with the orphan girls, then marry those that please you of [other] women, two or three or four. But if you fear that you will not be just, then [marry only] one or those your right hand possesses. That is more suitable that you may not incline [to injustice].


4:4 And give the women [upon marriage] their [bridal] gifts graciously. But if they give up willingly to you anything of it, then take it in satisfaction and ease.


4:5 And do not give the weak-minded your property, which Allah has made a means of sustenance for you, but provide for them with it and clothe them and speak to them words of appropriate kindness.


4:6 And test the orphans [in their abilities] until[b] they reach marriageable age[/b]. Then if you perceive in them sound judgement, release their property to them. And do not consume it excessively and quickly, [anticipating] that they will grow up. And whoever, [when acting as guardian], is self-sufficient should refrain [from taking a fee]; and whoever is poor - let him take according to what is acceptable. Then when you release their property to them, bring witnesses upon them. And sufficient is Allah as Accountant.

^^^^
May ALLAH reward you.amin

Aa'ishah reported that a girl came to her and said, "My father married me to his brother's son in order to raise his social standing, and I did not want this marriage [I was forced into it]." ?Aa'ishah said, "Sit here until the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) comes. The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) came and she told him about the girl. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) sent for her father, then he gave the girl the choice of what to do. She said, "O Messenger of Allaah, I have accepted what my father did, but I wanted to prove something to other women." (Reported by al-Nisaa'i, 3217).



Volume 7, Book 62, Number 67:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

The Prophet said, "A matron should not be given in marriage except after consulting her; and a virgin should not be given in marriage except after her permission." The people asked, "O Allah's Apostle! How can we know her permission?" He said, "Her silence (indicates her permission)."

Volume 7, Book 62, Number 69:

Narrated Khansa bint Khidam Al-Ansariya:

that her father gave her in marriage when she was a matron and she disliked that marriage. So she went to Allah's Apostle and he declared that marriage invalid.

This are the words of the Prophet PBUH on the rights of women in choosing whom they marry, and the rejection of false marriage.

while the ex - Zionist, thinks this constitute an evidence, yet he presents no links for verification, what is more disturbing, I can show him links where Pastors, Bishops etc have defended homosexuality and claiming God loves them, I hope he would be willing to accept his religion as being SIN inclined.

[b]Unfortunantely for some Children, they are born to people who refuse to THINK with their brains! Anyone who thinks it is alright to 'thigh' a baby or penetrate a toddler/youngsters and will give his/her child up for such is dead while still alive! No wonder ignorance is promoted and western education is haram! A god who commands that children should be used for s/e* x.ua"l satisfaction by Adults is not God! You do not have to be religious to know the dangers of abusing a child that is not physically developed! A god that instructs that it is okay for a child to be 'damaged' and then divorced (and not counted as one of his allowed wives) by a pervert is no god to obey- a god of perversion is his right title!

How many rich Arab world Princesses have been married off at 2 years and their 40 year old husbands allowed to 'thigh' or penetrate them at 9? I am yet to see one, yet the ones who cannot think for themselves are encouraged to give up their little ones for the older 'God said to bleep your child and you dare not question - mongering' perverts![/b]

^^^^^^^^^ abeg woman go sleep. true to advise, the woman is already offline one time.

wished she could take my advise many more issues.

you already bought into the hype. penetration is not enough, you people coined 'thighing'.

christians and jews and others as enemies of islam can't help themselves as enemies of God.

if marrying underage is Islamic, i wonder why people like me are married to matured 30something youth?

Sweetnecta:

^^^^^^^^^ abeg woman go sleep. true to advise, the woman is already offline one time.

wished she could take my advise many more issues.

you already bought into the hype. penetration is not enough, you people coined 'thighing'.

christians and jews and others as enemies of islam can't help themselves as enemies of God.

if marrying underage is Islamic, i wonder why people like me are married to matured 30something youth?

As usual, sweetnecta, you refuse to condemn what is wrong and talk about something irrelevant instead! 'Thighing' a baby is, and so is penetrating a child! If you think I coined 'thighing', then you really do not know what your fellow muslims pass off as Allah's way. Go research 'thighing' in Islam!

In all my decades as muslim, some in Nigerian Africa [anyone who knows african will know sex], and many more in American 'the West' [anyone who knows 'the West' will know more sex], it is only on NL that I heard about thighing. And it must have been a new phenomenon ascribed to the poetic outlaws of Iran and Shia.

Is Iran and Shia the seat of Islam? The seat of Islam is Quran, and it is Muhammad [as] who embodies it.

If Muhammad didn't do it, and I know he didn't, his companions did not do it. I know they didn't. And i know the two subsequent generations that followed didn't do it.

Let me say something, in the days when 'gba set' was popular, the people who rarely indulged in it where the muslim youth who associated ith Christians. I never did and all my youth, I was with the christians and I expressed my opinion against 'setting' any girl.

Setting was the hallmark of Christians boys over girls.

As i grew up and i began to know my religion, it was that religion that never allowed me to mingle with cheap women like the ones in the 'job corps', a heaven or produce store of the African students for cheap relationships.

Thighing? What for? What is permissible in sexual act and with who are spelled out in Quran and thats what the Messenger [as] fulfilled [like Jesus fulfilled the Laws and the Prophets instead of Paul abolition of them], and it is what his companions practiced and it is that pattern a man like me indulges in. And it is Islam that has prevented me from misadventures like the rest of my non muslim friends who will go to strip clubs and 'thigh' the dancers.

Seyibrown, you didn't read my much earlier post on the topic. What is allowed in Islam is freedom enough and restrict muslim males from going outside of the boundary. this does not mean that many do not go outside of it. these people are deviating from the instruction just like Paul deviated from what Jesus said in the NT; God is One. Lord God is my Lord God as He is your Lord God. I am sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel to return them to the Laws and Prophets which I am fulfilling right in their mist [not canceling everything and say only to Love you and the neighbors with actioning it out or a later person says my do called death if anyone believes in it will be receiving salvation from me against your punishment]. I finished my assignment oh my God and signifies its completion with this dinner that You provide me and my 12 companions [not dying on the cross and someone claimed i am a ransom for the world sins]. You are the Only One to judge [not me and the 12 disciples].

you should know deviance? after all you follow Paul is truncating the message of Jesus. My wife is younger to me. but she is a full grown woman.

^^


Islam is like a criminal caught in the act , but yet admits nothing.

Despite all the evidence to the contrary this criminal refuses to take responsibility for his actions.

Islam pedophilia exceeds that of Catholicism by miles.

We are talking here about state sanctioned Pedophilia.

If Muhammad knew a 9 year old, what else can be sicker than this ?

The same spirit that moved Muhammad, is the same spirit working in Muslims.

@op and frosbel; A person can give fatwa all day long. That does not mean he will be followed or be accepted from him. A true fatwa has to be anchored in Quran and Sunnah, otherwise it is bad science as they say. This is unacceptable.

To claim that there is no age of marriage of female to male is saying that there is no age of marriage of male to female also. After all marriage is between the two genders and the male is the one paying the dowry, always. In all the verses of the Quran and the examples in the Sunnah/Hadith that deal with marriage, I do not see a single one that says marriage should be forced on any party. Hence, the one getting married had to understand what marriage is and willing to enter it because there is a contract to abide with that protects the rights of the male and the female.

From the above Sweetnecta actually rejected the Fatwa, but Just as these Christians cannot read and understand the bible so also can they hardly read understand simple response on Nl, Like it is often said, it is mandatory to get old but not compulsory to GROW UP! and indeed this are clear signs of this statement, the Hadith i quoted clearly shows Islam position on marriage, As per the issue of Muhammad pbuh wedding Aisha at age 9, from some other estimate, she was definitely above 9, BUT Even if we agree he married her at 9, it becomes that only YOUR PERVASIVE MIND begin to imagine that he had intimacy with her at that age, it seems the Western behavior of sexual filled thoughts and behavior which is not only sad but shows how materialism clearly powering your thoughts

It is not my mind that says he had intimacy with her at 9, it is in your Hadiths. Let me tell you this is sick.

A muslim cannot be better than Muhammad , perharps worse, but not better. Of course we know there are millions of muslims who are only so in name and not in the true letter of the word, since just like you, they also find some aspects of Muhmmads life sick and disturbing.

Anyway see the evidence below, from your own books.


From the hadith of Bukhari, volume 5, #234

"Narrated Aisha: The prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six. We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Harith Kharzraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became all right, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's messenger came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age."

Bukhari vol. 7, #65:

"Narrated Aisha that the prophet wrote the marriage contract with her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: "I have been informed that Aisha remained with the prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death).""

From the hadith of Muslim, volume 2, #3309

Aisha reported: Allah’s Messenger married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house at the age of nine….


From the hadith of the Sunan of Abu Dawud, volume 2, #2116

"Aisha said, "The Apostle of Allah married me when I was seven years old." (The narrator Sulaiman said: "Or six years.". "He had intercourse with me when I was 9 years old."


From "The History of Tabari", volume 9, page 131

"Then the men and women got up and left. The Messenger of God consummated his marriage with me in my house when I was nine years old. Neither a camel nor a sheep was slaughtered on behalf of me", (The Prophet) married her three years before the Emigration, when she was seven years old and consummated the marriage when she was nine years old, aft

My reply remains, as he exposed his pervasive thoughts once again

vedaxcool:

[font=Algerian[size=18pt][b]@op and frosbel; A person can give fatwa all day long. That does not mean he will be followed or be accepted from him. A true fatwa has to be anchored in Quran and Sunnah, otherwise it is bad science as they say. This is unacceptable.

To claim that there is no age of marriage of female to male is saying that there is no age of marriage of male to female also. After all marriage is between the two genders and the male is the one paying the dowry, always. In all the verses of the Quran and the examples in the Sunnah/Hadith that deal with marriage, I do not see a single one that says marriage should be forced on any party. Hence, the one getting married had to understand what marriage is and willing to enter it because there is a contract to abide with that protects the rights of the male and the female.

From the above Sweetnecta actually rejected the Fatwa, but Just as these Christians cannot read and understand the bible so also can they hardly read understand simple response on Nl,  Like it is often said, it is mandatory to get old but not compulsory to GROW UP! and indeed this are clear signs of this statement, the Hadith i quoted clearly shows Islam position on marriage, As per the issue of Muhammad pbuh wedding Aisha at age 9, from some other estimate, she was definitely  above 9, BUT Even if we agree he married her at 9, it becomes that only YOUR PERVASIVE MIND begin to imagine that he had intimacy with her at that age, it seems the Western behavior of intimate filled thoughts and behavior which is not only sad but shows how materialism clearly powering your thoughts[/b][/size][/font]

vedaxcool:

@op and frosbel; A person can give fatwa all day long. That does not mean he will be followed or be accepted from him. A true fatwa has to be anchored in Quran and Sunnah, otherwise it is bad science as they say. This is unacceptable.

To claim that there is no age of marriage of female to male is saying that there is no age of marriage of male to female also. After all marriage is between the two genders and the male is the one paying the dowry, always. In all the verses of the Quran and the examples in the Sunnah/Hadith that deal with marriage, I do not see a single one that says marriage should be forced on any party. Hence, the one getting married had to understand what marriage is and willing to enter it because there is a contract to abide with that protects the rights of the male and the female.

From the above Sweetnecta actually rejected the Fatwa, but Just as these Christians cannot read and understand the bible so also can they hardly read understand simple response on Nl, Like it is often said, it is mandatory to get old but not compulsory to GROW UP! and indeed this are clear signs of this statement, the Hadith i quoted clearly shows Islam position on marriage, As per the issue of Muhammad pbuh wedding Aisha at age 9, from some other estimate, she was definitely above 9, BUT Even if we agree he married her at 9, it becomes that only YOUR PERVASIVE MIND begin to imagine that he had intimacy with her at that age, it seems the Western behavior of intimate filled thoughts and behavior which is not only sad but shows how materialism clearly powering your thoughts

[b]Funny how vedaxcool denies what is CLEARLY written in Islamic scripture. I don't think Aisha was deranged when she said she was 'done' at 9! You keep saying 'age of marriage' when the matter is 'age of consummation'! The article clearly talked about 'when the child can take a man's weight'! Children have no idea what marriage is about and can therefore not be said to be able to give consent. Marrying a child off at 2 is ROBBING HER OF THE CHANCE TO MAKE HER CHOICE IN LIFE and but instead ensuring she is S.E^X*U*ALLY ENSLAVED TO A PERVERT CHOSEN FOR HER BY GREEDY OR IGNORANT PEOPLE!

Those more knowledgeable in Islamic scripture and history say the consummation was Allah's commandment and Mo himself said he received more revelation when 'with' Aisha.

If this bit of Islamic scripture is INCORRECT (as you claim - the 'more muslim fatwa issuers' don't agree with you), how much more of it is BALDERDASH?

The good news for Islam is that this Fatwa will bring in more converts. All pedos have to do is become a muslim so that you can marry a child from a poor/ignorant family and say 'talaq talaq talaq' when she begins to grow teeth or as soon  her 'V place' merges with her 'A place' to make room for a fresher victim. Allah commands it![/b]

@Seyibrown; « #13 on: Today at 12:20:50 AM »
[Quote]Quote from: vedaxcool on Yesterday at 04:01:12 AM
@op and frosbel; A person can give fatwa all day long. That does not mean he will be followed or be accepted from him. A true fatwa has to be anchored in Quran and Sunnah, otherwise it is bad science as they say. This is unacceptable.

To claim that there is no age of marriage of female to male is saying that there is no age of marriage of male to female also. After all marriage is between the two genders and the male is the one paying the dowry, always. In all the verses of the Quran and the examples in the Sunnah/Hadith that deal with marriage, I do not see a single one that says marriage should be forced on any party. Hence, the one getting married had to understand what marriage is and willing to enter it because there is a contract to abide with that protects the rights of the male and the female.

From the above Sweetnecta actually rejected the Fatwa, but Just as these Christians cannot read and understand the bible so also can they hardly read understand simple response on Nl, Like it is often said, it is mandatory to get old but not compulsory to GROW UP! and indeed this are clear signs of this statement, the Hadith i quoted clearly shows Islam position on marriage, As per the issue of Muhammad pbuh wedding Aisha at age 9, from some other estimate, she was definitely above 9, BUT Even if we agree he married her at 9, it becomes that only YOUR PERVASIVE MIND begin to imagine that he had intimacy with her at that age, it seems the Western behavior of intimate filled thoughts and behavior which is not only sad but shows how materialism clearly powering your thoughts

Funny how vedaxcool denies what is CLEARLY written in Islamic scripture. I don't think Aisha was deranged when she said she was 'done' at 9! You keep saying 'age of marriage' when the matter is 'age of consummation'! The article clearly talked about 'when the child can take a man's weight'! [/Quote]Seyibrown you are on your own here. Hadith is what Muhammad [as] said. It is always about Muhammad. if you say what was reported that Aisha [ra] said about herself relating to Muhammad is hadith, lets just examine it for a moment. Aisha [ra] was not the writer of the Hadith and not the narrator either. A person who speaks about himself or herself is the speaker, the one who will repeat what he or she says is the narrator, if there is a person to be so called. We in Islam on NL at least have asked many times that the christians tell us if Abu Bakr was a father to a new child after he entered islam? A new child from an ex-wife he divorced because of her refusal to enter Islam will be a tall order, a tale of a whopper. If a man is going to sleep with a woman, why divorce her and then go to have illicit sex with her? If you have a reasonable explanation for this, considering that Abu Bakr voluntarily left a disbeliever, I wonder why he should go in to have sex with her so much so that she got pregnant, accepting the baby will still rejecting the disbelieving mother? Tell us when was Aisha born by a mother who disbelieved and therefore was divorced by her father, immediately in the first year of Islam? How is Aisha 9 years old when Islam was 15 years old?



[Quote]Children have no idea what marriage is about and can therefore not be said to be able to give consent. Marrying a child off at 2 is ROBBING HER OF THE CHANCE TO MAKE HER CHOICE IN LIFE and but instead ensuring she is S.E^X*U*ALLY ENSLAVED TO A PERVERT CHOSEN FOR HER BY GREEDY OR IGNORANT PEOPLE![/Quote]Aisha [ra] said she participated in her own marital contract. She qualified Muhammad [as] as the walking Quran. Allah says 'age of marriage', not age women can take the weight of men. Big difference considering that the first marriage of Muhammad [as] was to an older woman, shall we say the age men can take the weight of women, too, and women do come on top. No?



[Quote]Those more knowledgeable in Islamic scripture and history say the consummation was Allah's commandment and Mo himself said he received more revelation when 'with' Aisha.[/Quote]More knowledgeable like the way Paul became more knowledgeable than peter the rock? That figures. Is there knowledge in lie? Ok; is there beneficial knowledge in lie?



[Quote]If this bit of Islamic scripture is INCORRECT (as you claim - the 'more muslim fatwa issuers' don't agree with you), how much more of it is BALDERDASH?

The good news for Islam is that this Fatwa will bring in more converts. All pedos have to do is become a muslim so that you can marry a child from a poor/ignorant family and say 'talaq talaq talaq' when she begins to grow teeth or as soon her 'V place' merges with her 'A place' to make room for a fresher victim. Allah commands it![/Quote]we want all comers; all the bishops and deacons, reverend fathers, etc, etc. And by Allah when they enter Islam, they will become cured. Seyibrown; V place, A place? What is that? Please don't tell me if it is chinese. I will be waiting to read your sale of Jesus, sometime, today, or soon after it. Dont keep me waiting. And no talaq is waiting for my wife. I love her the way she is. And I did not pick this stand by your matured wife from being a Yoruba or living in the west; I pick it up imitating Muhammad [as].

^^^^ 'V place' & 'A place' = Private p/a/r/t/s! You had no idea that Allah allows a child whos has been damaged in such a way by an older pervert can be divorced and will not count as one of the pervert's four wives? You have never met those female beggars from the north who stink all the time because of the 'merger' resulting from their 'Allah-commanded' early marriage consummation and/ or early childbirth? Read up more on what following Allah's commandments/ perverts' fatwas results in!

Seyi is well know on clinging on illogical views, even if you show her clear signs
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=709001.msg8712902#msg8712902

I won't waste my time responding to her glibe talk, but let me show their Hypocrisy;

The portion of the Bible that we want to look at begins with the Book of Numbers, Chapter 31, verses 17 and 18. Here, Moses(P), following the Lord's command, orders the Israelites to kill all the Midianite male children. The order continues with the following:

". . . kill every woman who has known man by lying with him, but all the female children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves."

One can only guess how the Israelites determined who the virgins were. Most probably, they did it based on age and maturity, assuming that all of the female "children" who had not reached puberty were virgins. Keep in mind that this was done, according to the Bible, on God's command to "Avenge the Israelites on the Midianites". Later, God gives Moses(P) instructions on how to divide up the booty, "whether persons, oxen, donkeys, sheeps or goats". Based on this command, "thirty-two thousand persons in all, women who had not known a man by lying with him" were divided up. This was done so that the Israelite soldiers could have these young girls "for themselves". I do not suspect that anyone reading this is either so naive or ignorant of King James English to not know what this means!

Moving along to another great example of Biblical morality, . . . in Deuteronomy 21:10-14 the Biblical "God of Love" gives the following command:

"When thou goest forth to war against thine enemies, and the Lord thy God hath delivered them into thine hands and thoust has taken them captive, and seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and had a desire unto her, that though would have her to thy wife, then though shalt bring her home to thine house . . . and after that you may go into her and be her husband, and she shall be your wife. But if though have no delight in her, then thou shalt let her go".

This should serve as sufficient proof that the morality that is taught in the Bible often is not what Christians make it out to be. In spite of what they teach in Sunday school, the above mentioned verses demonstrate the following:

* Almighty God, at least according to the Bible, ordered innocent babies to be killed; and

* He allowed young women to be forced into sex against their will.

Some of the things that make brushing aside the Old Testament a bit more difficult (at least for Christians who want to remain intellectually honest) are:

1) the same God that "inspired" the Old Testament "inspired" the New Testament;

2) this same God is "unchanging" according to the Bible;

3) Jesus(P) in the New Testament endorses the "Law and the prophets" (i.e. the Old Testament) in several places; and

4) without the Old Testament there is no basis for Christianity.

since seyi knows Islam more than I, over to you since you have high moral standards, use it to judge your bible, i believe the hypocrite in you will rear its head. Common sense will tell anybody that during the times of the prophets Marriage age tend to be around puberty, and more so it becomes clear from this : The basis for these rulings is the following Mishnaic passage of Tractate Niddah (filth):

A girl three years and one day old is betrothed by intercourse. "A girl three years old may be betrothed through an act of intimate intercourse," the words of R. Meir. And sages say, "Three years and one day old."

Alhamdulilah, the truth is easy for you to see.

^^^

Oh sorry, but you have totally ignored the topic, that your revered prophet slept with a 9 year old girl.

Instead you look back to more than 4000 years ago, to justify this sick behavior in the 21st century.

So while others have moved on, Islam is stuck in the BC primitive era of human society.

But we are really talking here about Muhammad and his comparison to Jesus Christ.

There is no basis, he was not a prophet in any true sense of the word, he was an opportunist, feeding on the ignorance of millions.

Thanks

AYA Too much of a coward to explain? I restate:

vedaxcool:

[size=18pt]Seyi is well know on clinging on illogical views, even if you show her clear signs
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=709001.msg8712902#msg8712902

I won't waste my time responding to her glibe talk, but let me show their Hypocrisy;

The portion of the Bible that we want to look at begins with the Book of Numbers, Chapter 31, verses 17 and 18. Here, Moses(P), following the Lord's command, orders the Israelites to kill all the Midianite male children. The order continues with the following:

". . . kill every woman who has known man by lying with him, but all the female children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves."

One can only guess how the Israelites determined who the virgins were. Most probably, they did it based on age and maturity, assuming that all of the female "children" who had not reached puberty were virgins. Keep in mind that this was done, according to the Bible, on God's command to "Avenge the Israelites on the Midianites". Later, God gives Moses(P) instructions on how to divide up the booty, "whether persons, oxen, donkeys, sheeps or goats". Based on this command, "thirty-two thousand persons in all, women who had not known a man by lying with him" were divided up. This was done so that the Israelite soldiers could have these young girls "for themselves". I do not suspect that anyone reading this is either so naive or ignorant of King James English to not know what this means!

Moving along to another great example of Biblical morality, . . . in Deuteronomy 21:10-14 the Biblical "God of Love" gives the following command:

"When thou goest forth to war against thine enemies, and the Lord thy God hath delivered them into thine hands and thoust has taken them captive, and seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and had a desire unto her, that though would have her to thy wife, then though shalt bring her home to thine house . . . and after that you may go into her and be her husband, and she shall be your wife. But if though have no delight in her, then thou shalt let her go".

This should serve as sufficient proof that the morality that is taught in the Bible often is not what Christians make it out to be. In spite of what they teach in Sunday school, the above mentioned verses demonstrate the following:

* Almighty God, at least according to the Bible, ordered innocent babies to be killed; and

* He allowed young women to be forced into sex against their will.

Some of the things that make brushing aside the Old Testament a bit more difficult (at least for Christians who want to remain intellectually honest) are:

1) the same God that "inspired" the Old Testament "inspired" the New Testament;

2) this same God is "unchanging" according to the Bible;

3) Jesus(P) in the New Testament endorses the "Law and the prophets" (i.e. the Old Testament) in several places; and

4) without the Old Testament there is no basis for Christianity.

since seyi knows Islam more than I, over to you since you have high moral standards, use it to judge your bible, i believe the hypocrite in you will rear its head. Common sense will tell anybody that during the times of the prophets Marriage age tend to be around puberty, and more so it becomes clear from this : The basis for these rulings is the following Mishnaic passage of Tractate Niddah (filth):

A girl three years and one day old is betrothed by intercourse. "A girl three years old may be betrothed through an act of intimate intercourse," the words of R. Meir. And sages say, "Three years and one day old."

Alhamdulilah, the truth is easy for you to see.[/size]

I have given my view take it or leave it, but the above question needs your high standards to Judge.

My brother Vedaxcool may Allah reward you for your steadfastness in the struggle against tyranny. Ramadhan Karim to you.


@Seyibrown: « #15 on: Yesterday at 09:45:19 PM »
[Quote]^^^^ 'V place' & 'A place' = Private p/a/r/t/s! You had no idea that Allah allows a child whos has been damaged in such a way by an older pervert can be divorced and will not count as one of the pervert's four wives? You have never met those female beggars from the north who stink all the time because of the 'merger' resulting from their 'Allah-commanded' early marriage consummation and/ or early childbirth? Read up more on what following Allah's commandments/ perverts' fatwas results in![/Quote]It is private part that you can't write out or what is it, from it that terrifies a married a woman?

As to what I see in the north or what I don't see in the north, I will copy a young woman on NL who says of herself; Omo yoruba ni mi o swagger. I am also Omo yoruba. And there is a bounce to my steps. But I tone it down because Islam forbids such a haughtiness. Islam is not Saudi Arabian religion, so it is definitely not a northern Nigerian religion. Not all Northern Nigerians are Muslims. Not all Muslims are Northern Nigerians. Thats even in Nigeria. But Islam is world over.

You did not count their marrying underage to their Northern Nigerian Tribal cultures but you ascribe it to a wider culture that is Islam. Smart. Very smart. And you don't have this underage marriage in Auchi/Sabogidara Orah, or Benin, or among Igbo Muslims or common among Yoruba Muslims or it is the only marriage the Northern Nigerians practice?

And this underage marriage should have been described in the Quran and Hadith, and even your 'can carry the weight of a man' that you said is what is meant as age of Marriage from the Quran. I need to see your tafsir. It will be interesting because it is similar how Another Comforter who shall hear and speak only what he hears becomes a fire that rests on the head of the 11, plus paul and others, I imagine.

Please tell me you are joking. You have your presentation of Jesus waiting on the other thread. Don't disappoint your audience, even if you botch the post as you are doing here. Present something so that we can all laugh, shake our heads or scratch them.

This is what happens when you find yourself in the midst of religious people. You're surrounded by a$$holes.

arrogance of the ignorance.

too proud to be humble; so he denies and curses.

vedaxcool, I will voice my opinion against any religion/organisation that institutionalizes pe*do*phillia! Show me where Jesus commited/encouraged/institutionalised pe*do*philia and I will condemn it as I have done in my prior posts! Show me a Christian fatwa for this perversion!I am NOT FOR PE*DO*PHI*LIA and will not support any religion/organisation/person who preaches and/or practices it! This is my position. Where do you stand? Are you for it or against it? Do you support those who practice it? Do you condemn the practice? Let me hear you loud and clear!

@Seyibrown; you promised me you will show me Jesus and what is not who Jesus is, in another thread. you haven't done it. why?


on the thread, right now, show us where Muhammad [as] spoke in favor of pedophilia. or where he practiced it. you live in England. get the profile of Pedophiles from Scotland Yard's sex crime unit, and see if Muhammad [as] is in any of it aspects/descriptions. then see if Jesus of the bibles is in any of it aspects/descriptions.

if you cant see Jesus in it, i guarantee you that you won't find Muhammad [as] in it.

when christian deacons, not necessarily catholics indulge in homosexual liaison, or boyfriend and girlfriend relationship, neither is christian-like because you may not find it of God fearing people in the Bibles. same way when some wacko give fatwa, or other evil deeds. you will not find it as pattern of believers in the Quran, Sunnah/Hadith. believers are people who are God fearing.


you still owe me the Jesus and not the Jesus on the other thread.

It is very funny how seyi has suddenly become humble, I asked for your judgement on the above verses, since you claim to be an authority in Islamic legalism, yet you have become strident in refusing to answer simple questions calling for your "righteous" indignation, but yet we can not find such. The funny thing is the Jews actually married off their children at the onset of puberty, this practice Jesus pbuh never condemned,

The fact that some men remained single was an anomaly in ancient Israel, as we learn from Jeremiah 16. After all, it "is not good for the man to be alone", and a good wife is a gift from Yahweh (Pro. 18:22; Preuss, p. 104). We have, so far as I know, no reports of women who are commanded to remain single in Ancient Israel. Marriage was the norm.

The wife was to be taken from within the larger family circle (usually at the outset of puberty or around the age of 13) in order to maintain the purity of the family line; but she could not be too closely related as is shown by Leviticus 18.

http://www.theology.edu/marriage.htm

NB Puberty might come earlier than 13
since you are a marriage expert was the minimum age the Jews married off their children, as in the other response I quoted, I showed you how Jews literally married their children at ages as low as 3, A girl three years and one day old is betrothed by intercourse. "A girl three years old may be betrothed through an act of intimate intercourse," the words of R. Meir. And sages say, "Three years and one day old."

Since Jesus pbuh never condemned such practice, then consequently he agreed to them, I have long know you dribble your way from answering question posed to you.

^^^

lol. 

So you are using Jewish custom now and not the bible to justify pedophilia.

Hmm, okay , Your most holy prophet did the right thing in sleeping with a 9 year old.  What a very good example !!!!

vedaxcool:

It is very funny how seyi has suddenly become humble, I asked for your judgement on the above verses, since you claim to be an authority in Islamic legalism, yet you have become strident in refusing to answer simple questions calling for your "righteous" indignation, but yet we can not find such. The funny thing is the Jews actually married off their children at the onset of puberty, this practice Jesus pbuh never condemned,

The fact that some men remained single was an anomaly in ancient Israel, as we learn from Jeremiah 16. After all, it "is not good for the man to be alone", and a good wife is a gift from Yahweh (Pro. 18:22; Preuss, p. 104). We have, so far as I know, no reports of women who are commanded to remain single in Ancient Israel. Marriage was the norm.

The wife was to be taken from within the larger family circle (usually at the outset of puberty or around the age of 13) in order to maintain the purity of the family line; but she could not be too closely related as is shown by Leviticus 18.

http://www.theology.edu/marriage.htm

NB Puberty might come earlier than 13
since you are a marriage expert was the minimum age the Jews married off their children, as in the other response I quoted, I showed you how Jews literally married their children at ages as low as 3, A girl three years and one day old is betrothed by intercourse. "A girl three years old may be betrothed through an act of intimate intercourse," the words of R. Meir. And sages say, "Three years and one day old."

Since Jesus pbuh never condemned such practice, then consequently he agreed to them, I have long know you dribble your way from answering question posed to you.

Looking for Bright individuals to respond