Kobojunkie:
Again....

So, does a well-programmed and tested robot(or even a child for that matter), with the ability to choose, need to first have a concise understanding of good and evil before it can effectively carry out a basic command given it?

Yes, I would never leave my 5 years old beside a busy road even if I command him not to cross. If I do, I would have myself to blame. No one would say the child was warned. Everyone including you would blame me.

tctrills:

Yes, I would never leave my 5 years old beside a busy road even if I command him not to cross. If I do, I would have myself to blame. No one would say the child was warned. Everyone including you would blame me.

How in-depth of an understanding is necessary in order for the robot to obey the command stated below...

16 The Lord God gave him this command: “You may eat from any tree in the garden.
17 But you must not eat from the tree that gives knowledge about good and evil. If you eat fruit from that tree, on that day you will certainly die!” - Genesis 2 vs 16 - 17

The command already highlights what is good and what is evil... so how much more of an understanding of good and of evil is necessary for said robot to obey the simple command above?

Kobojunkie:
Again, How in-depth of an understanding is necessary in order for the robot to obey the command stated below...
The command already highlights what is good and what is evil... so how much more of an understanding of good and of evil is necessary for said robot to obey the simple command above?

They had no single Knowledge of good and evil.

tctrills:

They had no single Knowledge of good and evil.

You seem not to understand at all what knowledge of good and evil is about from the statement there.

Again, How in-depth of an understanding is necessary in order for the robot to obey the command stated below...

16 The Lord God gave him this command: “You may eat from any tree in the garden.
17 But you must not eat from the tree that gives knowledge about good and evil. If you eat fruit from that tree, on that day you will certainly die!” - Genesis 2 vs 16 - 17

The command already highlights what is good and what is evil... so how much more of an understanding of good and of evil is necessary for said robot to obey the simple command above?

Kobojunkie:
You seem not to understand at all what knowledge of good and evil is about from the statement there.

Again, How in-depth of an understanding is necessary in order for the robot to obey the command stated below...
The command already highlights what is good and what is evil... so how much more of an understanding of good and of evil is necessary for said robot to obey the simple command above?

I gave you an example, If I command my 5 years old kid not to cross a busy road, would you blame the child or I the father if I left the child alone by the roadside and he crossed?

Kobojunkie:
Again, How in-depth of an understanding is necessary in order for the robot to obey the command stated below...
The command already highlights what is good and what is evil... so how much more of an understanding of good and of evil is necessary for said robot to obey the simple command above?

Again, I would say you are being a bit Hypocritical, why? Because you have the knowledge of good and evil yet you are not sinless. But somehow you expect more from Adam who did not have such knowledge. That in itself is hypocrisy.

tctrills:

I gave you an example, If I command my 5 years old kid not to cross a busy road, would you blame the child or I the father if I left the child alone by the roadside and he crossed?

As far as Scripture, the Knowledge of good and evil refers to God's Law which makes clear for us that which is sin(evil) and that which is not(good).

So, again, How in-depth an understanding is necessary in order for the robot to obey the command stated below...

16 The Lord God gave him this command: “You may eat from any tree in the garden.
17 But you must not eat from the tree that gives knowledge about good and evil. If you eat fruit from that tree, on that day you will certainly die!” - Genesis 2 vs 16 - 17

The command already highlights what is good and what is evil... so how much more of an understanding of good and of evil is necessary for said robot to obey the simple command above?

Kobojunkie:
As far as Scripture, the Knowledge of good and evil refers to God's Law which makes clear for us that which is sin(evil) and that which is not(good).

So, again, How in-depth an understanding is necessary in order for the robot to obey the command stated below...
The command already highlights what is good and what is evil... so how much more of an understanding of good and of evil is necessary for said robot to obey the simple command above?

The bible was clear, they had no understanding of good and evil before eating the fruit. If you build your robot without an understanding of Good and evil you should not expect it to choose Good. A robot cant give you what it does not have.

tctrills:
The bible was clear, they had no understanding of good and evil before eating the fruit. If you build your robot without an understanding of Good and evil you should not expect it to choose Good. A robot cant give you what it does not have.

Stop lying! Scripture does not in any way say nor insinuate that at all.

Kobojunkie:
Stop lying! Scripture does not in any way say nor insinuate that at all.

You need to read what God said about that in the bible.
The scripture did not call man God's robot
Here are God's very words after Adam ate the fruit. " Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil." Now you see I was not lying.

tctrills:

You need to read what God said about that in the bible.
The scripture did not call man God's robot
Here are God's very words after Adam ate the fruit. "Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil." Now you see I was not lying.

Open your eyes... Nothing in that suggests man had no previous understanding of good and evil.

The command that was given man in itself was of knowledge of good and evil... good and bad. If man had no understanding of the command to begin with, then the conversation that ensued between Eve and the serpent, end eventually Adam would not have taken place at all.

Kobojunkie:
Open your eyes... Nothing in that suggests man had no previous understanding of good and evil.

The command that was given man in itself was of knowledge of good and evil... good and bad. If man had no understanding of the command to begin with, then the conversation that ensued between Eve and the serpent, end eventually Adam would not have taken place at all.

It only suggests that man had no previous knowledge of good and evil.

If I say, now Kobojunkie has become like one of us, to understand french. I simply mean that previously, you did not understand french. Let's not pretend that English is an issue.

If I give a 2-year-old child a command, does it mean the child knows good from evil?

tctrills:
It only suggests that man had no previous knowledge of good and evil.
If I say, now Kobojunkie has become like one of us, to understand french. I simply mean that previously, you did not understand french. Let's not pretend that English is an issue.
If I give a 2-year-old child a command, does it mean the child knows good from evil?

Enough of the rambling, simply focus on what is asked abeg!

So, again, How in-depth an understanding is necessary in order for the robot to obey the command stated below...

16 The Lord God gave him this command: “You may eat from any tree in the garden.
17 But you must not eat from the tree that gives knowledge about good and evil. If you eat fruit from that tree, on that day you will certainly die!” - Genesis 2 vs 16 - 17

The command already highlights what is good and what is evil... so how much more of an understanding of good and of evil is necessary for said robot to obey the simple command above?

Kobojunkie:
Open your eyes... Nothing in that suggests man had no previous understanding of good and evil.

The command that was given man in itself was of knowledge of good and evil... good and bad. If man had no understanding of the command to begin with, then the conversation that ensued between Eve and the serpent, end eventually Adam would not have taken place at all.

A quick English lesson
If God had said, man is like one of us, knowing good from evil, then you can assume that man has always known good from evil.
But God said, man is become as one of us, to know good and evil. Man was not always like that. Man did not always know good and evil until he ate the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
I know you are very intelligent and simple English is not your problem but I don't want us to argue over the language.

Kobojunkie:
Enough of the rambling, simply focus on what is asked abeg!

So, again, How in-depth an understanding is necessary in order for the robot to obey the command stated below...
The command already highlights what is good and what is evil... so how much more of an understanding of good and of evil is necessary for said robot to obey the simple command above?

If your robot has no knowledge of good and evil, even a command would not fix that unless first, your robot eats the fruit of knowledge of good and evil. Does this answer your question?

tctrills:
If your robot has no knowledge of good and evil, even a command would not fix that unless first, your robot eats the fruit of knowledge of good and evil. Does this answer your question?

I see this is getting nowhere fast.

A well-programmed and tested robot has knowledge enough to obey simple commands given it, even with the ability to choose.

16 The Lord God gave him this command: “You may eat from any tree in the garden.
17 But you must not eat from the tree that gives knowledge about good and evil. If you eat fruit from that tree, on that day you will certainly die!” - Genesis 2 vs 16 - 17

The command above already highlights that which is desired(good) and that which is not desired(evil). So, given the information above, man was more than able to make a decision for himself and this is exactly what he did, twice... first as Eve, and then as Adam.

Kobojunkie:
I see this is getting nowhere fast.

A well-programmed and tested robot has knowledge enough to obey simple commands given it, even with the ability to choose. The command above already highlights that which is desired(good) and that which is not desired(evil). So, given the information above, man was more than able to make a decision for himself and this is exactly what he did, twice... first as Eve, and then as Adam.

In a well-programmed Robot; first, you need to input the knowledge before giving the command. The command alone does nothing to your robot. And yes this your robot analogy is taking us nowhere. Maybe we should first study robotic engineering before having the robot argument. Until then let's take God's very words; And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil:

tctrills:
A quick English lesson
If God had said, man is like one of us, knowing good from evil, then you can assume that man has always known good from evil.
But God said, man is become as one of us, to know good and evil. Man was not always like that. Man did not always know good and evil until he ate the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
I know you are very intelligent and simple English is not your problem but I don't want us to argue over the language.

Man was already made in the image of God with the ability to reason even the simplest of instructions. He didn't need to first acquire all the knowledge of God's Truth - aka knowledge of good and of evil out there - in order to accomplish even the most basic of commands. We are talking here of the same man whom God had earlier instructed to name the creatures He had created and that went well without a glitch meaning man was fully capable of processing information fed to him and deciphering that which was fed Him. He had intelligent enough to know a fish from a reptile, a dog from a kangaroo and so we know he also know from that that he had ability to reason things out in order to make right choices from wrong ones.

[quote author=Kobojunkie post=114897387] Man was already made in the image of God with the ability to reason even the simplest of instructions.
The man was not aware of his unclothedness. even my 5-year-old would not allow visitors to see him naked. What are you saying.
He didn't need to first acquire all the knowledge of God's Truth - aka knowledge of good and of evil out there - in order to accomplish even the most basic of commands. You make God a liar. God says man gained Knowledge after eating the fruit. Man was not born with the knowledge. Listen to God's word.. And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil:

We are talking here of the same man whom God had earlier instructed to name the creatures He had created and that went well without a glitch meaning man was fully capable of processing information fed to Him and deciphering that which was fed Him.
I don't care if man named everything. The bible did not say that man was stupid. It did not say that man did not have any Knowledge. It simply teach that man did not have the knowledge of good and evil. Man was not created with such knowledge. Man obviously had knowledge of other things not good and bad.

Kobojunkie:
Enough of the rambling, simply focus on what is asked abeg!

So, again, How in-depth an understanding is necessary in order for the robot to obey the command stated below...
The command already highlights what is good and what is evil... so how much more of an understanding of good and of evil is necessary for said robot to obey the simple command above?

Both Adam and Eve surely knows what is good and what is evil what they wanted is not the knowledge but the fruit in itself.
When God said:

“Here the man has become like one of us in knowing good and bad" Genesis 3:22

It doesn't literally mean Adam doesn't know the difference between good and evil before then but something far more than that is involved!

To understand the message let's go back to what Satan said that interests Eve:

“You certainly will not die. For God knows that in the very day you eat from it, your eyes will be opened and you will be like God, knowing good and bad.” Genesis 3:4-5

Four points are mentioned here:
They will not die!
Their eyes will be opened!
They will be like God!
They will know good and evil!

This is what it means!

[1] They will not expire as God said if they choose to become independent.
[2] They will no longer need God to direct them as if they're blind spiritually.
[3] They will become like God over all their descendants.
[4] They will be the ones to set standards for mankind in general.

All these is pointing to one thing POLITICS!

Once Adam and Eve liberate themselves from God's direction the two as the only couple on planet earth will become like Gods for later generations of mankind so instead of saying "this is what God (our invisible heavenly father) said from generations to generations we will all continue to look onto Adam and Eve as those who knows what is right and wrong.

Of course Satan lied to both of them because after they were driven out of the garden they both began growing weak, soon they became old and finally they expired. Again they never became Gods because Cain (their first son) killed Abel (his brother) both Adam and Eve who were so desperate to become like God couldn't do anything to Cain (the killer). Most of their descendants took after them so there was nothing like orderliness as each person feels like setting his/her own standard despite the fact that they know it's not going to work as they have to deal with fellow intelligent beings (humans) like themselves. Lastly Adam and Eve became irrelevant as their great-grandchildren moved to wherever they please and the first couple couldn't make any rules until they finally expired!

Today billions are still eating the forbidden fruit by their choice as they don't want to know what exactly is the standard God set for mankind, most just feel like doing whatever they like yet they will go out, choose rulers for themselves, protest against their rulers who are living like gods over them and sending them to kill one another for their own selfish interest as their political rulers or gods.
But the Almighty God will soon destroy all of them because no one has the right to set standards among mankind except God the rightful King who told Adam and Eve not to eat of the forbidden fruit! Psalms 82:6

God had His reasons for wanting to keep His Truth- the knowledge of Good and of Evil - away from man at the time in question. However, today we now have that same knowledge in the person of Jesus Christ, God's New Covenant Law, and the Gospel in the Kingdom of God.

Jesus answered, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. The only way to the Father is through me. 7 If you really knew me, you would know my Father too. But now you know the Father. You have seen him.” - John 14 vs 6

Jesus Christ is the one who is the Tree of Life and the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil who was even there in the garden of Eden with man. However, man's disobedience robbed mankind of that chance at Jesus Christ in the garden. But 2000 years ago, God extended to mankind a chance at redemption from the curse which He placed on man, all framed within Jesus Christ, God's original plan.

Kobojunkie:
Man was already made in the image of God with the ability to reason even the simplest of instructions. He didn't need to first acquire all the knowledge of God's Truth - aka knowledge of good and of evil out there - in order to accomplish even the most basic of commands. We are talking here of the same man whom God had earlier instructed to name the creatures He had created and that went well without a glitch meaning man was fully capable of processing information fed to Him and deciphering that which was fed Him.

I think you should learn to forget what you think and listen to what God says. If God says the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil, he means that man did not originally know good and evil as you presume. All the logic and robot talk no longer counts. Unless you don't understand the very simple statement from God and I am willing to listen to your interpretation of God's word.

tctrills:

Every Christian should be scared of a Muslim Muslim presidency and should cry out against it's possibility.

How many Christian-Christian governors have Muslims frown at despite its existence? You are scared of Islam as it's the only way of life that threatens Christianity from its root!

tctrills:

I disagree with you on Islam and here is why.
This year alone, we had a girl killed in Sokoto. She was not killed by Boko Haram but by her Muslim classmates. Stuff like this happens everyday in the Muslim world.
A lady is killed because she complained about her Muslim neighbor pouring water when praying.
Even Muslims that have a change of faith get killed. So it may be wrong to call those killing and those ready to kill and supporting the killing a minority.
Remember when the Christian student was killed Atiku condemned the act until he saw that majority of Muslims supported the act and he would lose them in election.
So I ask which is the right Islam.
Note, in Nigeria, our Muslim government kills Shia for fun. So let's not pretend killing others in the name of religion is accepted by only a minority of Muslim. The truth is that we including you do not know and cannot tell how many Muslims support religious violence.
Lastly, most of the things you said about Christians are totally wrong.

Whenever a pastor commits evil, Christians are quick to disown that action away from Christianity! Many Christians commit evil by virtue of the position/power they have but that actions are never attributed to Christianity!

You accuse the government of killing Shiites, where's the proof that the Shiite are not at fault?

Even if a Christian or atheist shout Allahu Akbar you'll say he's a Muslim.

The girl that was killed killed herself. Even if the culprits are punished that won't bring her back like Lazarus.
I don't support lynching in any form. But we all should respect other's religion and space.

AntiChristian:


Whenever a pastor commits evil, Christians are quick to disown that action away from Christianity! Many Christians commit evil by virtue of the position/power they have but that actions are never attributed to Christianity!

You accuse the government of killing Shiites, where's the proof that the Shiite are not at fault?

Even if a Christian or atheist shout Allahu Akbar you'll say he's a Muslim.

The girl that was killed killed herself. Even if the culprits are punished that won't bring her back like Lazarus.
I don't support lynching in any form. But we all should respect other's religion and space.

I never condemned or discredited Islam, I only said that Islam is divided into 2 groups. 1. The violent ones that kill and rejoice when a person is killed.
2. The peaceful ones that tell you Islam is a religion of peace.
You are getting it wrong. I would not fault Islam if a Muslim leader is caught doing something wrong or something that is against his religion.
My point is, there are 2 Muslims one believes in using violence and the other says his religion is peace.
I have lived in up to 3 states in northern Nigeria. Let me tell you from my experience.
You would be attacked and beaten up for having a Muslim girlfriend and walking with her on the streets.
But if a Muslim guy has a Christian girlfriend, no violence.
I remember September 11, 2001 when the US was attacked, there was serious rejoicing among many Muslim communities including in Nigeria.
So I think it is very wrong to cliam that the violent Muslims are a minority.
During my NYSC days, a very close Muslim friend of mine told me that according to Islamic law, when a Muslim leaves the religion for another, he is killed. Now this my friend was not a killer in anyway. But the law is the law.

Just so you know, about 1 in every 7 Muslims is Shai. So if Shai is evil to the extend that the government has to wipe them out, that's a very big number of Muslims to be killed worldwide don't you think?

AntiChristian:


How many Christian-Christian governors have Muslims frown at despite its existence? You are scared of Islam as it's the only way of life that threatens Christianity from its root!

Many things to note, 1. Christians have never frowned at Muslim/Muslim governors either
I have lived in states that practice Sharia law and I never complained because these are majority Muslim states with about 10 percent or less Christian population.
But we are talking about Nigeria as a whole, not a single state. It is wrong, it does not represent our diversity, and it does not bring us together.
Now let's be honest with each other, if APC had chosen a Christian vice, would the Muslim north be happy? I have lived in the north and I can imagine what would have happened.

MaxInDHouse:


Of course when the need arises!

I must say, that's an interesting position coming from a Christian.

But first of all we have to consider if there's any reason for updates since we only need such editing or modifying for our growth as a spicie!

I agree

AntiChristian:


How many Christian-Christian governors have Muslims frown at despite its existence? You are scared of Islam as it's the only way of life that threatens Christianity from its root!

So bro, imagine it was the other way round. Imagine a Christian candidate impersonate imams for his Inauguration, by now, there would have been killings in Kano, Kastina and Kaduna.
But the APC just used fake unknown bishops and everyone is laughing because Christians don't kill over stuff like that.

tctrills:

So bro, imagine it was the other way round. Imagine a Christian candidate impersonate imams for his Inauguration, by now, there would have been killings in Kano, Kastina and Kaduna.
But the APC just used fake unknown bishops and everyone is laughing because Christians don't kill over stuff like that.

Where are your evidence? It seems you people are all falsehood peddler. A saw a particular person among the crowd called a mechanic in Lagos. Same person was said to have contested APC youth leader in another state.

All these lies Wey Christians dey lie will disappoint them soon!

AntiChristian:


Where are your evidence? It seems you people are all falsehood peddler. A saw a particular person among the crowd called a mechanic in Lagos. Same person was said to have contested APC youth leader in another state.

All these lies Wey Christians dey lie will disappoint them soon!

You mean these guy where actually priests and up till now, the APC can't tell us who the were. Haba, let's not intentional kid ourselves.
The guy you are talking about and you seem to be very sure he is a priest, please can you tell us his parish.
Let's be honest with ourselves, we both know these men were fakes but Christians are not going to kill anyone for that.

AntiChristian:


Where are your evidence? It seems you people are all falsehood peddler. A saw a particular person among the crowd called a mechanic in Lagos. Same person was said to have contested APC youth leader in another state.

All these lies Wey Christians dey lie will disappoint them soon!

These men, dressed like bishops not even ordinary priests yet no one in Nigeria can recognize the fake bishops.

Let me explain who a bishop is to you, let's take Abeouta for example, it has many priests but usually just one bishop.

So who are these bishops that no single person recognizes.

Let's learn to tell the truth even if we don't agree politically.

tctrills:

Many things to note, 1. Christians have never frowned at Muslim/Muslim governors either
I have lived in states that practice Sharia law and I never complained because these are majority Muslim states with about 10 percent or less Christian population.
But we are talking about Nigeria as a whole, not a single state. It is wrong, it does not represent our diversity, and it does not bring us together.
Now let's be honest with each other, if APC had chosen a Christian vice, would the Muslim north be happy? I have lived in the north and I can imagine what would have happened.

So having all Christian governors in SE and SW really represents our diversity?
If you're really worried about diversity and not competition where do you place the other religions apart from Islam and Christianity? Abi na only Christians and Muslims dey Nigeria?