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Please what's your question? i saw two question marks but i don't see/get the question.

"Paul vs. Jesus"-by Davis D. Danizier

http://www.wordwiz72.com/paul.html

On sacrifices to God:


Paul says:

1Cor.5
[7] For Christ, our paschal lamb, has been sacrificed.
Eph.5
[2] And walk in love, as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us, a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.


Jesus says:

Matt.9
[13] Go and learn what this means, `I desire mercy, and not sacrifice.'

LagosShia:

On sacrifices to God:


Paul says:

1Cor.5
[7] For Christ, our paschal lamb, has been sacrificed.
Eph.5
[2] And walk in love, as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us, a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.


Jesus says:

Matt.9
[13] Go and learn what this means, `I desire mercy, and not sacrifice.'

This is very deep. Hosea is very deep. That whole era of judaism is not to be studied lightly. Could you say that Hosea was a break from Mosaic judaism? What about Isaiah (or the 3rd Isaiah as some scholars like to call it)?

LagosShia:

Jesus says:

Matt.9
[13] Go and learn what this means, `I desire mercy, and not sacrifice.'

Jesus was actually quoting Hosea in this passage. (Hosea 6:6) What he is referring to is not just found in Hosea but in pretty much all the prophets. They very much rubbish the significance of ritual sacrifices in their writings. Their emphasis is rather on conduct and righteous behaviour. Things like being merciful and just rather than on empty rituals.

This has to be treated delicately because a great deal of christian theology is based on presenting Jesus' death as a sacrifice of atonement as based on the Mosaic law. Yet we find all over the prophets and from Jesus himself that sacrifice is not what God wants. Some prophets go so far as to say that God despises sacrifices and feasts.
Where therefore does that leave those who rest all hope on sacrifice, the sacrifice of Christ, the pashal lamb, yet continue to livei in a manner that is vile to God?


The Law and the Prophets.

James 1:27
Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

This issue seems to go back further that just christian theology although it plays a great part in understanding christian theology.
We all know that Israelite religion was divided into the Law and the Prophets. What is not so obvious is the distinctions between them in what they emphasised. Even when they address the same events their opinions can quite varied.

There are many points on which there are differences but the point that I want to raise in relation to James 1:27 lies in the difference between Religion as Ritual and ceremony, and Religion as moral conduct.

In the Law provisions are provided in order to reconcile a sinful people to God. These facilities include sacrifices, burnt offerings, peace offerings etc etc etc. These Rituals which are performed by the official priesthood are stipulated in the Law and are one way to do religion (re-ligere, binding back to God).

The priesthood are officially recognised social positions. In contrast to that the prophets were like mavericks. Prophethood did not assure a high social rank. If anything it could make one an outcast.

Most Israelite prophets did not write down their prophecies. The first of the 'Writing prophets' that we are aware of is Amos. He was active in the 8th century BC. So we can see that this early on in Israelite religion there was amongst the prophets a contempt for the great rituals and the ritual centers, even the cult centers of Yahweh, including prominent centers like Bethel. Reconciliation with God depends not on performing sacrifices but rather on changing moral behaviour.

Those who are so meticulous at observing ritual yet remain sinful are mocked.
Chapter 4:

4“Enter Bethel and transgress;
         In Gilgal multiply transgression!
         Bring your sacrifices every morning,
         Your tithes every three days.
5“Offer a thank offering also from that which is leavened,
         And proclaim freewill offerings, make them known.
         For so you love to do, you sons of Israel,”
         Declares the Lord GOD.

They practice the rites yet continue to transgress. As punishment they suffer yet even in the suffering they don't realize that God is against them.

.Chapter 5
6“But I gave you also cleanness of teeth in all your cities
         And lack of bread in all your places,
         Yet you have not returned to Me,” declares the LORD.
7“Furthermore, I withheld the rain from you
         While there were still three months until harvest.
         Then I would send rain on one city
         And on another city I would not send rain;
         One part would be rained on,
         While the part not rained on would dry up.
8“So two or three cities would stagger to another city to drink water,
         But would not be satisfied;
         Yet you have not returned to Me,” declares the LORD
And then comes the killer punch:

 4For thus says the LORD to the house of Israel,
         “Seek Me that you may live.
5“But do not resort to Bethel
         And do not come to Gilgal,
         Nor cross over to Beersheba;
         For Gilgal will certainly go into captivity
         And Bethel will come to trouble.
6“Seek the LORD that you may live,
         Or He will break forth like a fire, O house of Joseph,
         And it will consume with none to quench it for Bethel,
7For those who turn justice into wormwood
         And cast righteousness down to the earth.”
8He who made the Pleiades and Orion
         And changes deep darkness into morning,
         Who also darkens day into night,
         Who calls for the waters of the sea
         And pours them out on the surface of the earth,
         The LORD is His name.
9It is He who flashes forth with destruction upon the strong,
         So that destruction comes upon the fortress.
10They hate him who reproves in the gate,
         And they abhor him who speaks with integrity.
11Therefore because you impose heavy rent on the poor
         And exact a tribute of grain from them,
         Though you have built houses of well-hewn stone,
         Yet you will not live in them;
         You have planted pleasant vineyards, yet you will not drink their wine.
12For I know your transgressions are many and your sins are great,
         You who distress the righteous and accept bribes
         And turn aside the poor in the gate.

A clear distinction is made between seeking God and going to the ritual centers to deliver tithes and sacrifices. These are all futile without something called Tsedeq, which is translated as righteousness. It includes Justice for the poor and the widows and orphans.

Without Tsedeq all the tithes, sacrifices, and praise worship singing are actually detestable to God. Not my words but the words of God in Amos.

Chapter 5
21“I hate, I reject your festivals,
         Nor do I delight in your solemn assemblies.
22“Even though you offer up to Me burnt offerings and your grain offerings,
         I will not accept them;
         And I will not even look at the peace offerings of your fatlings.
23“Take away from Me the noise of your songs;
         I will not even listen to the sound of your harps.
24“But let justice roll down like waters
         And righteousness like an ever-flowing stream.

More prophets:
Hosea 8:
13As for My sacrificial gifts,
         They sacrifice the flesh and eat it,
         But the LORD has taken no delight in them.
         Now He will remember their iniquity,
         And punish them for their sins;
         They will return to Egypt.

Micah 6:


6With what shall I come to the LORD
         And bow myself before the God on high?
         Shall I come to Him with burnt offerings,
         With yearling calves?
7Does the LORD take delight in thousands of rams,
         In ten thousand rivers of oil?
         Shall I present my firstborn for my rebellious acts,
         The fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?
8He has told you, O man, what is good;
         And what does the LORD require of you
         But to do justice, to love kindness,
         And to walk humbly with your God?

@Frosbel; Re: Between Paul And Jesus, Who Do You Believe
[Quote]« #36 on: Today at 06:06:38 PM »

Quote from: LagosShia on August 06, 2011, 02:00 PM
Jesus says:

Matt.9
[13] Go and learn what this means, `I desire mercy, and not sacrifice.'



Jesus was actually quoting Hosea in this passage. (Hosea 6:6) What he is referring to is not just found in Hosea but in pretty much all the prophets. They very much rubbish the significance of ritual sacrifices in their writings. Their emphasis is rather on conduct and righteous behaviour. Things like being merciful and just rather than on empty rituals.

This has to be treated delicately because a great deal of christian theology is based on presenting Jesus' death as a sacrifice of atonement as based on the Mosaic law. Yet we find all over the prophets and from Jesus himself that sacrifice is not what God wants. Some prophets go so far as to say that God despises sacrifices and feasts.
Where therefore does that leave those who rest all hope on sacrifice, the sacrifice of Christ, the pashal lamb, yet continue to livei in a manner that is vile to God?[/Quote]behold your sacrificing of Jesus has been denied by Jesus himself. but Paul has imposed the sacrifice on you as a thing that atones you. this shows that you bought the lies of Paul, and the whole thing is a sham.


Paul can be so much against Jesus that it is sickening.

Jesus converted Paul, and Paul ministered Jesus, so we cant compare. Jesus is the only way to the father, Paul was a follower of Christ, he always address himself as the servant of Christ, as in a minister of Christ.

I believe Jesus. He's the Lord of all, even Paul, Paul got saved when Jesus spoke to him on his way to Damascus to get the believers arrested.Paul called him Lord who you from the very beginning.

@inedi; « #38 on: Today at 06:50:33 PM »
[Quote]Jesus converted Paul,[/Quote]if he did, which i find impossible, but not to lie.


[Quote] and Paul ministered Jesus, [/Quote]no he didn't, the reason they disciples disagreed with him, until each was rendered useless and reluctantly followed the powerful Paul.


[Quote]so we cant compare.[/Quote]but there is contrast between them. they do not agree in purpose.


[Quote] Jesus is the only way to the father,[/Quote]not so fast; Moses was the only way to Yahweh in his time. think about this and apply it to the time of Abraham, too and dont forget the time of Noah.


[Quote] Paul was a follower of Christ, he always address himself as the servant of Christ, as in a minister of Christ.[/Quote]if Jesus called Peter his rock satan, Jesus would have call Paul antichrist, if he met him yesterday.


@Tsammy
[Quote]« #39 on: Today at 08:36:07 PM »
I believe Jesus. He's the Lord of all, even Paul, Paul got saved when Jesus spoke to him on his way to Damascus to get the believers arrested.Paul called him Lord who you from the very beginning.[/Quote]i believe Jesus, too. the problem is that what Jesus was given to preach by God Who sent him as a servant is lost. so in theory what to believe from the pages of the bible is murky. Jesus is no lord because he has a Lord Who sent him. you can;t have more than One True Lord. all other lords are fakes and you have entered polytheism. no one can convert a person except God. a prophet who didn't convert a soul when he the prophet was preaching can't convert the same soul when he the prophet is no more on earth to preach. if you said paul read the saying of Jesus and got converted, it will be a thing believable, but speaking from zone beyond and he is the only one that heard him is hard to accept. my reason is that the bible stated that at baptism of Jesus they heard the voice of God. in the case of paul, he is the only one who heard Jesus and he knew him right away. that is a big lie especially when he was not familiar with is voice.