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When Did Allah Say The Bible Was Corrupted And How? - Islam for Muslims (2) - Nairaland

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Re: When Did Allah Say The Bible Was Corrupted And How? by Ekrenji: 10:58am On Aug 14, 2022
AntiChristian:


So then the Christians too lied by claiming Matthew, Mark, Luke and John gospels! If Jesus preached the gospel or good news then the good news should be one not four different accounts!

Your Jesus said in John 5:30 or so, that he can of himself do nothing! He judge as he hear...

Those things he did were as was revealed to him.
Gospel according to… John, Matthew etc

They reported the gospel Jesus preached

The same way you have different narrators of Mohammed’s sayings (hadiths)
Re: When Did Allah Say The Bible Was Corrupted And How? by AntiChristian: 10:54am On Aug 15, 2022
Ekrenji:

Gospel according to… John, Matthew etc

They reported the gospel Jesus preached

The same way you have different narrators of Mohammed’s sayings (hadiths)

Seems you get sense!

Hadiths is different from Qur'an in that Hadith can be authenticated. Authentication means tracing the hadith to find out the possibility of it being true or not! The Qur'an is true and from Allah wholly.

The narrators are mentioned in Hadiths and the chains of person is mentioned till it gets to the Prophet.

This is not available in the case of the Bible.

Matthew never wrote this, did he?
And as Jesus passed forth from thence, he saw a man, named Matthew, sitting at the receipt of custom: and he saith unto him, Follow me. And he arose, and followed him. Matthew 9:9.

And Mark & Luke didn't say who there sources of information were (Like the hadiths you mentioned).

See Luke's starting verses
Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled among us, 2 just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word. 3 With this in mind, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, I too decided to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, 4 so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught. Luke 1:1-4.

Lastly how do we reconcile these:
1.Jesus before the Pilate
Matthew 27:11-14
11 Now Jesus stood before the governor. And the governor asked Him, saying, “Are You the King of the Jews?”

Jesus said to him, “It is as you say.”
12 And while He was being accused by the chief priests and elders, He answered nothing.

13 Then Pilate said to Him, “Do You not hear how many things they testify against You?” 14 But He answered him not one word, so that the governor marveled greatly.

2.Jesus before the Pilate
Mark 15:1-3

Immediately, in the morning, the chief priests held a consultation with the elders and scribes and the whole council; and they bound Jesus, led Him away, and delivered Him to Pilate. 2 Then Pilate asked Him, “Are You the King of the Jews?”

He answered and said to him, “It is as you say.”


3 And the chief priests accused Him of many things, but He answered nothing. 4 Then Pilate asked Him again, saying, “Do You answer nothing? See how many things they testify against You!” 5 But Jesus still answered nothing, so that Pilate marveled.

3.Jesus before the Pilate
Luke 23:1-3

Then their whole assembly rose up and brought him before Pilate. 2 They began to accuse him, saying, “We found this man misleading our nation, opposing payment of taxes to Caesar, and saying that he himself is the Messiah, a king.”

3 So Pilate asked him, “Are you the king of the Jews?”

He answered him, “You say so.”


4.Jesus before the Pilate (Note John adding graphics to the script!)
John 18:33-37
33 Pilate then went back inside the palace, summoned Jesus and asked him, “Are you the king of the Jews?

34 “Is that your own idea,” Jesus asked, “or did others talk to you about me?”

35[b] “Am I a Jew?” Pilate replied. “Your own people and chief priests handed you over to me. What is it you have done?[/b]”

36 Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders. But now my kingdom is from another place.”

37[b] “You are a king, then!” said Pilate.[/b]

Jesus answered, “You say that I am a king. In fact, the reason I was born and came into the world is to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me.”

1 Like

Re: When Did Allah Say The Bible Was Corrupted And How? by ANTllSLAAM: 11:12am On Aug 15, 2022
Balerion:

Even if our opninions are contradictory which they are not, why not provide a better answer instead of finding mistakes

You ask me question or which better answer are you expecting when you're both confused?
Re: When Did Allah Say The Bible Was Corrupted And How? by haekymbahd(m): 5:04pm On Aug 15, 2022
*
Re: When Did Allah Say The Bible Was Corrupted And How? by Ekrenji: 11:46am On Aug 16, 2022
AntiChristian:


Seems you get sense!

Hadiths is different from Qur'an in that Hadith can be authenticated. Authentication means tracing the hadith to find out the possibility of it being true or not! The Qur'an is true and from Allah wholly.

The narrators are mentioned in Hadiths and the chains of person is mentioned till it gets to the Prophet.

This is not available in the case of the Bible.

Matthew never wrote this, did he?
And as Jesus passed forth from thence, he saw a man, named Matthew, sitting at the receipt of custom: and he saith unto him, Follow me. And he arose, and followed him. Matthew 9:9.

And Mark & Luke didn't say who there sources of information were (Like the hadiths you mentioned).

See Luke's starting verses
Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled among us, 2 just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word. 3 With this in mind, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, I too decided to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, 4 so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught. Luke 1:1-4.

Lastly how do we reconcile these:
1.Jesus before the Pilate
Matthew 27:11-14
11 Now Jesus stood before the governor. And the governor asked Him, saying, “Are You the King of the Jews?”

Jesus said to him, “It is as you say.”
12 And while He was being accused by the chief priests and elders, He answered nothing.

13 Then Pilate said to Him, “Do You not hear how many things they testify against You?” 14 But He answered him not one word, so that the governor marveled greatly.

2.Jesus before the Pilate
Mark 15:1-3

Immediately, in the morning, the chief priests held a consultation with the elders and scribes and the whole council; and they bound Jesus, led Him away, and delivered Him to Pilate. 2 Then Pilate asked Him, “Are You the King of the Jews?”

He answered and said to him, “It is as you say.”


3 And the chief priests accused Him of many things, but He answered nothing. 4 Then Pilate asked Him again, saying, “Do You answer nothing? See how many things they testify against You!” 5 But Jesus still answered nothing, so that Pilate marveled.

3.Jesus before the Pilate
Luke 23:1-3

Then their whole assembly rose up and brought him before Pilate. 2 They began to accuse him, saying, “We found this man misleading our nation, opposing payment of taxes to Caesar, and saying that he himself is the Messiah, a king.”

3 So Pilate asked him, “Are you the king of the Jews?”

He answered him, “You say so.”


4.Jesus before the Pilate (Note John adding graphics to the script!)
John 18:33-37
33 Pilate then went back inside the palace, summoned Jesus and asked him, “Are you the king of the Jews?

34 “Is that your own idea,” Jesus asked, “or did others talk to you about me?”

35[b] “Am I a Jew?” Pilate replied. “Your own people and chief priests handed you over to me. What is it you have done?[/b]”

36 Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders. But now my kingdom is from another place.”

37[b] “You are a king, then!” said Pilate.[/b]

Jesus answered, “You say that I am a king. In fact, the reason I was born and came into the world is to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me.”
If you and I are to report the same event we won’t give exactly the same account, so slight differences are allowed in peoples reports of issues. It happens in your hadiths too where there were contrasting things said by different people about Mohammed’s speech or actions him saying you should not back the Kaaba while answering the call of nature and doing the same etc

Regarding Matthew, Luke and John mentioning themselves in their books, who knows if that was the style of writing that time? The Quran that you said is wholly from Allah is guilty of the same too. Allah is always reporting himself as if Mohammed or another person is the one writing the Quran. Speeches like “He is Allah” instead of “I am Allah” etc

Concerning the supposed contradictions, there are multiple in your Quran so don’t follow that path. Why should a book u said it is wholly from Allah have so many contradictions?
Re: When Did Allah Say The Bible Was Corrupted And How? by AntiChristian: 6:24am On Aug 18, 2022
Ekrenji:

If you and I are to report the same event we won’t give exactly the same account, so slight differences are allowed in peoples reports of issues. It happens in your hadiths too where there were contrasting things said by different people about Mohammed’s speech or actions him saying you should not back the Kaaba while answering the call of nature and doing the same etc

Regarding Matthew, Luke and John mentioning themselves in their books, who knows if that was the style of writing that time? The Quran that you said is wholly from Allah is guilty of the same too. Allah is always reporting himself as if Mohammed or another person is the one writing the Quran. Speeches like “He is Allah” instead of “I am Allah” etc

Concerning the supposed contradictions, there are multiple in your Quran so don’t follow that path. Why should a book u said it is wholly from Allah have so many contradictions?

You can compare similar things and you will of course be right. But here your wrong. No time was a writer ever seen to mention himself in a write-up as if he wasn't referring to himself.

The beauty of Arabic grammar eludeds even most of us Muslims not to talk of you a non-Muslim! In Arabic grammar I can authoritatively tell you that the Qu'ran is grammatically correct in all respect! Allah is incomparable to anyone among His creations!

You have no evidence of such!

And it is " Say He is Allah..." not just 'He is Allah" as you claim.

We need not mix truth with falsehood to claim our points!
Re: When Did Allah Say The Bible Was Corrupted And How? by Ekrenji: 9:06pm On Aug 18, 2022
AntiChristian:


You can compare similar things and you will of course be right. But here your wrong. No time was a writer ever seen to mention himself in a write-up as if he wasn't referring to himself.
Quran 95:8- “is not Allah the most of just of judges “

Allah the writer is mentioning himself here

Quran 86:8- “Indeed, Allah, to return him [to life] is able”

Quran 2:9- “They [think to] deceive Allah***

Quran 1:2- “All praise to Allah”
Re: When Did Allah Say The Bible Was Corrupted And How? by AntiChristian: 6:38am On Aug 20, 2022
Ekrenji:

Quran 95:8- “is not Allah the most of just of judges “

Allah the writer is mentioning himself here

Quran 86:8- “Indeed, Allah, to return him [to life] is able”

Quran 2:9- “They [think to] deceive Allah***

Quran 1:2- “All praise to Allah”


Allah addresses Himself by name and using first and third person pronoun in the Qu'ran.

Show me where Matthew referred to himself by first person pronoun in the whole book of Matthew?
Re: When Did Allah Say The Bible Was Corrupted And How? by Ekrenji: 2:59pm On Aug 20, 2022
AntiChristian:


Allah addresses Himself by name and using first and third person pronoun in the Qu'ran.

Show me where Matthew referred to himself by first person pronoun in the whole book of Matthew?
That means Matthew a mere man was more consistent than Allah. The book of Matthew was written more than 5 centuries before the Quran was.
Allah was using we, us, our for himself and he didn’t say “I am Allah your God” except in few places where he the writers of the Quran were quoting someone from the Bible

In Quran 20:11-12 where the writers of the Quran quoted from the Bible in the book of Exodus 3:5-6 by inserting Allah into the sentence

There is no where else in your Quran where Allah said “I am Allah your God” unless the writers were quoting from the Bible! If there is, tell me please.
Re: When Did Allah Say The Bible Was Corrupted And How? by AntiChristian: 3:31pm On Aug 20, 2022
Ekrenji:

That means Matthew a mere man was more consistent than Allah. The book of Matthew was written more than 5 centuries before the Quran was.
Allah was using we, us, our for himself and he didn’t say “I am Allah your God” except in few places where he the writers of the Quran were quoting someone from the Bible

In Quran 20:11-12 where the writers of the Quran quoted from the Bible in the book of Exodus 3:5-6 by inserting Allah into the sentence

There is no where else in your Quran where Allah said “I am Allah your God” unless the writers were quoting from the Bible! If there is, tell me please.

I asked you a question about Matthew which you are earnestly trying to divert away from.
Try and answer it.

Allah is our God and Lord. He speaks mainly in First and Third person pronoun!
Human writers usually don't call their names and use Third person pronoun for themselves.

This available in the Bible.
If you don't know what First and third person pronoun is you can google to learn!

And to say the Bible was being quoted is another big lie!

When was the Bible created?
Re: When Did Allah Say The Bible Was Corrupted And How? by Jerryhare: 6:52pm On Aug 20, 2022
AntiChristian:


Allah addresses Himself by name and using first and third person pronoun in the Qu'ran.

Show me where Matthew referred to himself by first person pronoun in the whole book of Matthew?

In brevity, Allah can stand as a singular and plural person(s)?
Re: When Did Allah Say The Bible Was Corrupted And How? by Ekrenji: 10:43pm On Aug 21, 2022
AntiChristian:


I asked you a question about Matthew which you are earnestly trying to divert away from.
Try and answer it.

Allah is our God and Lord. He speaks mainly in First and Third person pronoun!
Human writers usually don't call their names and use Third person pronoun for themselves.

This available in the Bible.
If you don't know what First and third person pronoun is you can google to learn!

And to say the Bible was being quoted is another big lie!

When was the Bible created?
I have already answered your question. There was a consistent pattern in the manner of Matthew’s writing but there were inconsistencies in that of Allah’s because many people must have written it yet to lay claim that the Quran is wholly from Allah.

Bible means book it’s derived from the Greek word Biblio. Any time the people of the book are mentioned in the Quran, the Bible is the book being referred to
Re: When Did Allah Say The Bible Was Corrupted And How? by AntiChristian: 10:34am On Aug 22, 2022
Ekrenji:

I have already answered your question. There was a consistent pattern in the manner of Matthew’s writing but there were inconsistencies in that of Allah’s because many people must have written it yet to lay claim that the Quran is wholly from Allah.

Bible means book it’s derived from the Greek word Biblio. Any time the people of the book are mentioned in the Quran, the Bible is the book being referred to

Don't be a hypocrite! Where is the consistence in Matthew's writing? Matthew was not present when Jesus was born! He was not present with Jesus till Matthew 9:9. Where did he get the info he wrote before he met Jesus?

I think i have proven that Matthew never wrote Matthew as there's no evidence he wrote it. If you have any evidence, you can bring it.

And as for the people of the Book
Ahlul Kitab (People of the Book) consist of both believers and disbelievers, as indicated in the Quran, where Allah the Almighty mentions the disbelievers among them (interpretation of the meaning):

"O people of the Scripture!: Why do you disbelieve in the verses [about Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)] of Allah, while you (yourselves) bear witness (to their truth)." (Al ‘Imraan, 3:70)

And:

"Say: O people of the Scripture! Why do you stop those who believe from the path of Allah, seeking to make it crooked, while you (yourselves) are witnesses? And Allah is not unaware of what you do". (Al ‘Imran, 3:99)

And Allah, the Almighty, said about the believers among them, making clear the difference between them and the aforementioned (interpretation of the meaning):

"Not all of them are alike; a party of the people of the Scripture stand for the right, they recite the Verses of Allah during the hours of the night, prostrating themselves in prayer. They believe in Allah and the Last Day; they enjoin what is right and forbid evil and they hasten in good works; and they are among the righteous. And whatever good they do, nothing will be rejected of them; for Allah knows well those who are the pious." (Al ‘Imran, 3:113-115)

These people also believe in our Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) and the Quran which was revealed to him as mentioned (approximate translation of meanings is):

"And there are, certainly, among the people of the Scripture, those who believe in Allah and in that which has been revealed to you, and in that which has been revealed to them, humbling themselves before Allah. They do not sell the Verses of Allah for a little price, for them is a reward from their Lord. Surely, Allah is swift in account." (Al ‘Imran, 3:199)

Are modern Christians among Ahul Kitab?

The disbelief of the disbelieving People of the Scripture, that include Jews and Christians, in our times does not expel them from being People of the Scripture. So, the rules and regulations related to them regarding permissibility of eating their food and marrying their chaste women, in the Quran and Sunnah, are still applicable to them.
Re: When Did Allah Say The Bible Was Corrupted And How? by Ekrenji: 7:20pm On Aug 22, 2022
AntiChristian:


Don't be a hypocrite! Where is the consistence in Matthew's writing? Matthew was not present when Jesus was born! He was not present with Jesus till Matthew 9:9. Where did he get the info he wrote before he met Jesus?
I notice that you don’t apply the same logic to your religion. You wrote up there that the Quran is wholly Allah’s words, can you read the first chapter of the Quran for us and tell us why Allah is worshipping himself, and praying to be guided to the straight path?



And as for the people of the Book
Ahlul Kitab (People of the Book) consist of both believers and disbelievers, as indicated in the Quran, where Allah the Almighty mentions the disbelievers among them (interpretation of the meaning):

"O people of the Scripture!: Why do you disbelieve in the verses [about Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)] of Allah, while you (yourselves) bear witness (to their truth)." (Al ‘Imraan, 3:70)

And:

"Say: O people of the Scripture! Why do you stop those who believe from the path of Allah, seeking to make it crooked, while you (yourselves) are witnesses? And Allah is not unaware of what you do". (Al ‘Imran, 3:99)

And Allah, the Almighty, said about the believers among them, making clear the difference between them and the aforementioned (interpretation of the meaning):

"Not all of them are alike; a party of the people of the Scripture stand for the right, they recite the Verses of Allah during the hours of the night, prostrating themselves in prayer. They believe in Allah and the Last Day; they enjoin what is right and forbid evil and they hasten in good works; and they are among the righteous. And whatever good they do, nothing will be rejected of them; for Allah knows well those who are the pious." (Al ‘Imran, 3:113-115)

These people also believe in our Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) and the Quran which was revealed to him as mentioned (approximate translation of meanings is):

"And there are, certainly, among the people of the Scripture, those who believe in Allah and in that which has been revealed to you, and in that which has been revealed to them, humbling themselves before Allah. They do not sell the Verses of Allah for a little price, for them is a reward from their Lord. Surely, Allah is swift in account." (Al ‘Imran, 3:199)

Are modern Christians among Ahul Kitab?

The disbelief of the disbelieving People of the Scripture, that include Jews and Christians, in our times does not expel them from being People of the Scripture. So, the rules and regulations related to them regarding permissibility of eating their food and marrying their chaste women, in the Quran and Sunnah, are still applicable to them.
None of the verses you posted above indicates that other people apart from the Christians and the Jews are called the people of the Book.
The Book is Biblio aka Bible!
Re: When Did Allah Say The Bible Was Corrupted And How? by AntiChristian: 5:37am On Aug 23, 2022
Ekrenji:

I notice that you don’t apply the same logic to your religion. You wrote up there that the Quran is wholly Allah’s words, can you read the first chapter of the Quran for us and tell us why Allah is worshipping himself, and praying to be guided to the straight path?
The revelation comes as directed by Allah through the Angel Gabriel from the mouth of our honoured prophet Muhammad salallahu alayhi wasalam. The opening chapter is as Allah wills it to be.

And the Qu'ran wasn't written by one Matthew disciple, Mark Historian, Luke historian, John disciple, Paul infidel turned disciple after Jesus died.

The claim is that the Qu'ran is wholly from Allah!

The Bible is not even from the people who was claimed to have written it.



None of the verses you posted above indicates that other people apart from the Christians and the Jews are called the people of the Book.
The Book is Biblio aka Bible!

I am not here to prove that.
The books recognized in Islam are known. Only the Qu'ran is still available both written and in memory worldwide!

The others are lost through the ages! And the original manuscript are no more available. No generation was able to successfully preserve it or commit it fully to memory without distortion, omission, commission, alteration, etc.
Re: When Did Allah Say The Bible Was Corrupted And How? by chakula: 6:48am On Aug 23, 2022
AntiChristian:
The revelation comes as directed by Allah through the Angel Gabriel from the mouth of our honoured prophet Muhammad salallahu alayhi wasalam. The opening chapter is as Allah wills it to be.

And the Qu'ran wasn't written by one Matthew disciple, Mark Historian, Luke historian, John disciple, Paul infidel turned disciple after Jesus died.

The claim is that the Qu'ran is wholly from Allah!

The Bible is not even from the people who was claimed to have written it.




I am not here to prove that.
The books recognized in Islam are known. Only the Qu'ran is still available both written and in memory worldwide!

The others are lost through the ages! And the original manuscript are no more available. No generation was able to successfully preserve it or commit it fully to memory without distortion, omission, commission, alteration, etc.

In addition to what you wrote the Catholic Bible is differ from other denomitions bibles. Why ?
Re: When Did Allah Say The Bible Was Corrupted And How? by Ekrenji: 5:38pm On Aug 23, 2022
AntiChristian:
The revelation comes as directed by Allah through the Angel Gabriel from the mouth of our honoured prophet Muhammad salallahu alayhi wasalam. The opening chapter is as Allah wills it to be.
So Allah spoke to Angel Gabriel whom in turn spoke to Mohammed? That implies that the Quran you said was wholly from Allah is the words of Angel Gabriel.
Why should Allah not have communicated directly to Mohammed?
While you’re trying to refute the claim that Allah was praying in the first chapter of the Quran you are digging more holes for yourself.

Allah wills to pray to be guided to the straight path? That is ridiculous

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