The Written Word is Gods revelation .

The Holy Spirit opens our understand to see what is already written.

This will never contradict the context,grammar,vocabulary and entire contents on the written word.

After Paul prayed for revelation in Ephesians 1:16-23

He had this to say

Ephesians 3:3-4 KJV
[3] How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4] Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

You read ,you understand.

Any teaching that hadn't been taught by the Apostles is false.

1 Corinthians 3:11 KJV
[11] For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 2:20 KJV
[20] And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone ;

Christianity is an Historical concept .

It's not subject to the whims of expediency .

Hence Paul warned

Galatians 1:6-9 KJV
[6] I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: [
7] Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. [
8] But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. [
9] As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

No amount of angelic visitations or heavenly encounter must deviate from the written word!

2 Corinthians 11:4 KJV
[4] For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him .

Some have claimed new mysteries and dimensions .

Some have claimed to have been to heaven and hell .

Given some warnings to the Church .

Some claimed "God told them the oil is the Holy Spirit in a bottle"

Others have said they received mysteries concerning tithes,end time transfer of wealth

Others about angels..,the list goes on and on.

The Faith mustn't be subjected to this invasion of foreign elements.

Jude 1:3 KJV
[3] Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

The Faith has been delivered once and for all.

Nothing new to be added.

If we must practice anything at all ,Gifts of The Spirit,Healing,Prosperity,Holiness,church discipline ,ordination,giving,suffering ,prayer.., teaching about rapture etc

It must be well written,explained and practiced in the New Testament Church.

God Speaks today...,According to the Scriptures and not to update,review or upset the Written Word!

This Practice of "God told me or an angel said ,or Jesus appeared to me " in doctrinal matters has pioneered cults ,non biblical practices ,and so on and forth.

I am a very unrepentant advocate of the Gifts of the Spirit and the Things of the Spirit.

But according to The written Word.

All things are written.

All God has Done,is doing and will ever Do are contained in the written word.

Jesus is Lord,We Win!
Pastor onayinka Olusegun

Jamestaiwo:
1. The Holy Spirit opens our understand to see what is already written. This will never contradict the context,grammar,vocabulary and entire contents on the written word. After Paul prayed for revelation in Ephesians 1:16-20. He had this to say

2. You read ,you understand. Any teaching that hadn't been taught by the Apostles is false.

Christianity is an Historical concept . It's not subject to the whims of expediency . Hence Paul warned

1. Yet much of that written in the letter to the Ephesians directly contradicts that decreed by Jesus Christ.

2. You mean the apostles, not even Jesus Christ, are the yardstick, as far as that which is Truth and that which is not? What you are saying is that Jesus Christ isn't the standard of God's Truth nor is the Spirit of Truth aka the Holy Spirt who happens to be the Spirit of Jesus Christ, but rather the apostles are the standard of God's Truth?

Kobojunkie:
1. Yet much of that written in the letter to the Ephesians directly contradicts that decreed by Jesus Christ.

2. You mean the apostles, not even Jesus Christ, are the yardstick, as far as that which is Truth and that which is not? What you are saying is that Jesus Christ isn't the standard of God's Truth nor is the Spirit of Truth aka the Holy Spirt who happens to be the Spirit of Jesus Christ, but rather the apostles are the standard of God's Truth?

Thank you for what you said but you should have asked as a question.

Have you not read in John 16 vs 12-14
John 16:12-14
[12]I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
This implies that there is a lot Jesus wanted to tell His disciples but they did not have the capacity to bear them, so Jesus didn't said everything before he died,

If you observed very well, He communicated to his disciples and audience in Parables,

[13]Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

The Best Teaching of Jesus Started after He rose from the Death, observe what the disciples said after He rose while He was teaching them
Luke 24:31-32,45
[31]And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight.
[32]And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?
[45]Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

Jesus teachings to them before He died were like Mystery because it is mostly Parable but when He rose, He demystified the mystery into simpler unit that will be able to understand by the Disciples, that is why they uttered those words in Luke 24.

John 16 vs [14]He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
The Continuation of Jesus teachings after He rose is what the Holy Spirit would reveal to the Disciples.

The Epistles now which is the Written word of God by the Holy Spirit through the Apostles is Our Manual for Reading as a Believer, because that is where our identity is revealed.
Epistles is from Romans to Revelation.

If there is any questions, you are free to ask.

Thank you sir

Jamestaiwo:
1. Thank you for what you said but you should have asked as a question. Have you not read in John 16 vs 12-14. If you observed very well, He communicated to his disciples and audience in Parables,

2. The Best Teaching of Jesus Started after He rose from the Death, observe what the disciples said after He rose while He was teaching them
Luke 24:31-32,45
[31]And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight.
[32]And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?
[45]Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

3. Jesus teachings to them before He died were like Mystery because it is mostly Parable but when He rose, He demystified the mystery into simpler unit that will be able to understand by the Disciples, that is why they uttered those words in Luke 24. John 16 vs [14]He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. The Continuation of Jesus teachings after He rose is what the Holy Spirit would reveal to the Disciples.

4. The Epistles now which is the Written word of God by the Holy Spirit through the Apostles is Our Manual for Reading as a Believer, because that is where our identity is revealed. Epistles is from Romans to Revelation. if there is any questions, you are free to ask.

Thank you sir

1. Recall that in John 14 vs 6, Jesus Christ had informed you that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life.

6 Jesus answered, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. The only way to the Father is through me.
7 If you really knew me, you would know my Father too. But now you know the Father. You have seen him.” - John 14 vs 6 -7

Well, the Spirit of Truth which He sent is the very same Spirit that lived inside of Jesus Christ, the same one that revealed the Truths that Jesus Christ taught to His disciples while He was on earth. So as Jesus Christ explained to you in the context of John 16 vs 4 - 15 to you, the Spirit of Truth, which He would send to those who are His followers, would reveal only that which is of Him, Jesus Christ.

4 “I did not tell you these things at the beginning, because I was with you then.
5 Now I am going back to the one who sent me. And none of you asks me, ‘Where are you going?’
6 But you are filled with sadness because I have told you all this.
7 Let me assure you, it is better for you that I go away. I say this because when I go away I will send the Helper to you. But if I did not go, the Helper would not come.
8 “When the Helper comes, he will show the people of the world how wrong they are about sin, about being right with God, and about judgment.
9 He will prove that they are guilty of sin, because they don’t believe in me.
10 He will show them how wrong they are about how to be right with God. The Helper will do this, because I am going to the Father. You will not see me then.
11 And he will show them how wrong their judgment is, because their leader has already been condemned.
12 “I have so much more to tell you, but it is too much for you to accept now.
13 But when the Spirit of truth(Jesus Christ) comes, he will lead you into all Truth(Jesus Christ). He will not speak his own words. He will speak only what he hears and will tell you what will happen in the future.
14 The Spirit of Truth(Jesus Christ) will bring glory to me by telling you what he receives from me(Jesus Christ).
15 All that the Father has is mine. That is why I said that the Spirit will tell you what he receives from me. - John 16 vs 4 - 15

This means, that the Spirit of Truth, the one also known as the Holy Spirit, would never give any message contrary to that already established by Jesus Christ while He was on earth. The Word of God, God's Truth, is eternal and so that which the Spirit of Jesus Christ said would be revealed is expected to never be in violation of the Word of God as established by Truth, Jesus Christ, Himself.

2. You claim the best teaching of Jesus Christ started after Jesus Christ died even though Jesus Christ regarded as foolish those two particular men for not realizing before that point in time the meaning of the message He had taught to them while He was alive?

25 Then Jesus said to the two men, “You are foolish and slow to realize what is true. You should believe everything the prophets said.
26 The prophets said the Messiah must suffer these things before he begins his time of glory.”
27 Then he began to explain everything that had been written about himself in the Scriptures. He started with the books of Moses and then he talked about what the prophets had said about him.
28 They came near the town of Emmaus, and Jesus acted as if he did not plan to stop there.
29 But they wanted him to stay. They begged him, “Stay with us. It’s almost night. There’s hardly any daylight left.” So he went in to stay with them.
30 Joining them at the supper table, Jesus took some bread and gave thanks. Then he broke some off and gave it to them.
31 Just then the men were allowed to recognize him. But when they saw who he was, he disappeared.
32 They said to each other, “When he talked to us on the road, it felt like a fire burning in us. How exciting it was when he explained to us the true meaning of the Scriptures!”
33 So the two men got up then and went back to Jerusalem. There they found the followers of Jesus meeting together. The eleven apostles and the people with them
34 said, “The Lord really has risen from death! He appeared to Simon.”
35 Then the two men told what had happened on the road. They talked about how they recognized Jesus when he shared the bread with them.- Luke 24 vs 25 - 35

3. Are you insinuating that since HIs teachings were a mystery to some until after the New Covenant agreement was ratified on the cross, that means all of what Jesus Christ taught in the Gospels, the very Gospel He sent His followers to teach those in the world, is all meaningless then? I ask this because according to Jesus Christ, the continuation of Jesus Christ's teachings are meant to conform to that which He already taught, not conflict with any of the teachings which make up what is the Gospel of the Kingdom of God which was sealed on the cross when His blood was shed and He declared, "It is finished".

4. The book of Revelations is not an epistle but instead a writing based on John's dream/vision. Epistles are letters addressed to particular audiences for particular reasons. The letter to the Jewish believers in the city of Ephesus for example is one such letter that is assumed to have been written by Paul. That letter for instance contains several contradictory messages that to that contained in what is the Gospel of the Kingdom of God as taught by Jesus Christ. And as such, it cannot be stated that the Spirit of Truth, who is meant to give glory only to Jesus Christ(The Truth), is the author of such lies since lies contradict Truth.

Kobojunkie:
1. Recall that in John 14 vs 6, Jesus Christ had informed you that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life.
Well, the Spirit of Truth which He sent is the very same Spirit that lived inside of Jesus Christ, the same one that revealed the Truths that Jesus Christ taught to His disciples while He was on earth. So as Jesus Christ explained to you in the context of John 16 vs 4 - 15 to you, the Spirit of Truth, which He would send to those who are His followers, would reveal only that which is of Him, Jesus Christ.

This means, that the Spirit of Truth, the one also known as the Holy Spirit, would never give any message contrary to that already established by Jesus Christ while He was on earth. The Word of God, God's Truth, is eternal and so that which the Spirit of Jesus Christ said would be revealed is expected to never be in violation of the Word of God as established by Truth, Jesus Christ, Himself.

2. You claim the best teaching of Jesus Christ started after Jesus Christ died even though Jesus Christ regarded as foolish those two particular men for not realizing before that point in time the meaning of the message He had taught to them while He was alive?


3. Are you insinuating that since HIs teachings were a mystery to some until after the New Covenant agreement was ratified on the cross, that means all of what Jesus Christ taught in the Gospels, the very Gospel He sent His followers to teach those in the world, is all meaningless then? I ask this because according to Jesus Christ, the continuation of Jesus Christ's teachings are meant to conform to that which He already taught, not conflict with any of the teachings which make up what is the Gospel of the Kingdom of God which was sealed on the cross when His blood was shed and He declared, "It is finished".

4. The book of Revelations is not an epistle but instead a writing based on John's dream/vision. Epistles are letters addressed to particular audiences for particular reasons. The letter to the Jewish believers in the city of Ephesus for example is one such letter that is assumed to have been written by Paul. That letter for instance contains several contradictory messages that to that contained in what is the Gospel of the Kingdom of God as taught by Jesus Christ. And as such, it cannot be stated that the Spirit of Truth, who is meant to give glory only to Jesus Christ(The Truth), is the author of such lies since lies contradict Truth.

1. Thank you for this, but let me tell you this that the teaching of Paul never contradict the teaching of Jesus, because the same Spirit in Jesus was in Paul.

Do you Know even Brother Peter even commend the Teaching of Brother

2 Peter 3:15-16
[15]And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

Brother Peter being the Leader of Early Church commended Brother Paul, because of the Insight God has given to Him. The Teaching of Brother Paul is explanation of Old testament in which if you are not careful with the rules of Bible interpretation, it would be difficult to understand it.

[16]As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Look at Brother Peter, He said some teachings of Brother Paul is hard to be understood. You will observe Paul is the only writer that prayed for His audience when he wrote, unless your eye of understanding is enlightened, you will not understand it.

For Brother Peter to commend brother Paul, it means brother Paul letters didn't contradict what Jesus taught.

2. Jesus called the two disciples fools, because they were slow to understand what Jesus taught them figuratively before He died. But at the same time, that is the Beginning of the 40 Days Bible teaching Jesus started with them. Eventually we see the result in Act, and in the Epistles.

Jamestaiwo:
1. Thank you for this, but let me tell you this that the teaching of Paul never contradict the teaching of Jesus, because the same Spirit in Jesus was in Paul.

2. Do you Know even Brother Peter even commend the Teaching of Brother 2 Peter 3:15-16
[15]And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; Brother Peter being the Leader of Early Church commended Brother Paul, because of the Insight God has given to Him.

3. The Teaching of Brother Paul is explanation of Old testament in which if you are not careful with the rules of Bible interpretation, it would be difficult to understand it.

4. Look at Brother Peter, He said some teachings of Brother Paul is hard to be understood. You will observe Paul is the only writer that prayed for His audience when he wrote, unless your eye of understanding is enlightened, you will not understand it. For Brother Peter to commend brother Paul, it means brother Paul letters didn't contradict what Jesus taught.

5. Jesus called the two disciples fools, because they were slow to understand what Jesus taught them figuratively before He died. But at the same time, that is the Beginning of the 40 Days Bible teaching Jesus started with them. Eventually we see the result in Act, and in the Epistles.

1. Again, many of the teachings found in the letters attributed to Paul directly contradict the teachings of Jesus Christ. This isn't a matter of opinion but a fact which is revealed right there in scripture for any non-blind person to easily observe. So this claim that you know the exact spirit that was inside the one who wrote those contradictory statements is the same Spirit that lived inside Jesus Christ Himself is an opinion of yours and not a fact.

2. There are numerous teachings in those letters attributed to Paul and it is not clear from his letter what teachings Peter in fact commended, so let's stop trying to pretend Peter serves as validation for the lies that are contained in the many letters supposedly written by Paul. According to Jesus Christ, it is by the account of 2 or 3 witnesses that a truth can be established. i.e. when 2 or 3 agree on a thing - a truth - Jesus Christ is there in their midst. The problem here is Peter never actually stated the "truth" supposedly written in paul's letter which he is in agreement with, and as such that decree given by Jesus Christ cannot be reasonably applied in this case.

3. Jesus Christ sent His followers out to teach His Gospel - God's New Covenant Law in the Kingdom of God - to those in the world, not to teach the Old Covenant Law to the people. And this is where many of Paul's teachings conflict with the mission that is Jesus Christ to His followers instead.

4. All you keep harping on is meaningless in the Kingdom of God scope of things. Again, Jesus Christ said those who are His, who love Him, are those who obey His teachings and commandments - John 14 vs 20 - 25 - Those who are His friends are those who do as He commands - John 15 vs 14. He went on to clarify that those who He loves are those who Obey His teachings and commandments - John 15 vs 9 - 11 & John 13 vs 1 . This means your focus on Paul and Peter is meaningless since Jesus Christ did not call on any man to follow the teachings of any other man - Matthew 15 vs 1 - 14 & Mark 7 vs 1 - 13 -, instead, He called on every one of His followers to bow only to His teachings and His commandments, that which is the Gospel and Law in the Kingdom of God.

5. Wrong! Jesus Christ taught figuratively only when He spoke mainly in Parables. You open to Matthew 5 - Matthew 12, and you will rarely find any figurative speech in those lines. Instead, what you will find written are laws/commandments drawn from that which had already been declared in parts of scripture. For instance, when Jesus Christ commanded His own to let their light shine...

14 “You are the light that shines for the world to see. You are like a city built on a hill that cannot be hidden.
15 People don’t hide a lamp under a bowl. They put it on a lampstand. Then the light shines for everyone in the house.
16 [/b]In the same way, [b]you should be a light for other people. Live so that they will see the good things you do and praise your Father in heaven. - Matthew 5 vs 14 - 16

...what He meant was that they do as God decrees in Isaiah 58, where the Almighty Himself explains exactly how one can cause the light of God to shine through one.

6 “I will tell you the kind of day I want—a day to set people free. I want a day that you take the burdens off others. I want a day when you set troubled people free and you take the burdens from their shoulders.
7 I want you to share your food with the hungry. I want you to find the poor who don’t have homes and bring them into your own homes. When you see people who have no clothes, give them your clothes! Don’t hide from your relatives when they need help.”
8 If you do these things, your light will begin to shine like the light of dawn. Then your wounds will heal. Your “Goodness” will walk in front of you, and the Glory of the Lord will come following behind you.
9 Then you will call to the Lord, and he will answer you. You will cry out to him, and he will say, “Here I am.” ... - Isaiah 58 vs 6 - 14

In the passage of Luke 24 vs 24 - 35, you are told that in order to give an understanding of His teachings to the two disciples, Jesus Christ told them they had to believe all that the prophets had spoken regarding the Messiah to come. Well, in much the same way, you are to go back through the teachings of the Prophets to find the understanding you need of the teachings and commandments of Jesus Christ. Most of the teachings and commandments of Jesus Christ have their very explanations contained right there in scripture. It all only appears figurative to those who aren't paying attention to what He is in fact saying.

Kobojunkie:
1. Again, many of the teachings found in the letters attributed to Paul directly contradict the teachings of Jesus Christ. This isn't a matter of opinion but a fact which is revealed right there in scripture for any non-blind person to easily observe. So this claim that you know the exact spirit that was inside the one who wrote those contradictory statements is the same Spirit that lived inside Jesus Christ Himself is an opinion of yours and not a fact.

2. There are numerous teachings in those letters attributed to Paul and it is not clear from his letter what teachings Peter in fact commended, so let's stop trying to pretend Peter serves as validation for the lies that are contained in the many letters supposedly written by Paul. According to Jesus Christ, it is by the account of 2 or 3 witnesses that a truth can be established. i.e. when 2 or 3 agree on a thing - a truth - Jesus Christ is there in their midst. The problem here is Peter never actually stated the "truth" supposedly written in paul's letter which he is in agreement with, and as such that decree given by Jesus Christ cannot be reasonably applied in this case.

3. Jesus Christ sent His followers out to teach His Gospel - God's New Covenant Law in the Kingdom of God - to those in the world, not to teach the Old Covenant Law to the people. And this is where many of Paul's teachings conflict with the mission that is Jesus Christ to His followers instead.

4. All you keep harping on is meaningless in the Kingdom of God scope of things. Again, Jesus Christ said those who are His, who love Him, are those who obey His teachings and commandments - John 14 vs 20 - 25 - Those who are His friends are those who do as He commands - John 15 vs 14. He went on to clarify that those who He loves are those who Obey His teachings and commandments - John 15 vs 9 - 11 & John 13 vs 1 . This means your focus on Paul and Peter is meaningless since Jesus Christ did not call on any man to follow the teachings of any other man - Matthew 15 vs 1 - 14 & Mark 7 vs 1 - 13 -, instead, He called on every one of His followers to bow only to His teachings and His commandments, that which is the Gospel and Law in the Kingdom of God.

5. Wrong! Jesus Christ taught figuratively only when He spoke mainly in Parables. You open to Matthew 5 - Matthew 12, and you will rarely find any figurative speech in those lines. Instead, what you will find written are laws/commandments drawn from that which had already been declared in parts of scripture. For instance, when Jesus Christ commanded His own to let their light shine...
...what He meant was that they do as God decrees in Isaiah 58, where the Almighty Himself explains exactly how one can cause the light of God to shine through one.

In the passage of Luke 24 vs 24 - 35, you are told that in order to give an understanding of His teachings to the two disciples, Jesus Christ told them they had to believe all that the prophets had spoken regarding the Messiah to come. Well, in much the same way, you are to go back through the teachings of the Prophets to find the understanding you need of the teachings and commandments of Jesus Christ. Most of the teachings and commandments of Jesus Christ have their very explanations contained right there in scripture. It all only appears figurative to those who aren't paying attention to what He is in fact saying.

Please I will like to ask, What verses or Chapters in Ephesians contradict Jesus teaching?

Peter was not the Only one that validated Paul teaching.

1 Corinthians 15:3-6
[3]For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
[4]And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
[5]And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
[6]After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.

Paul teaching is according to the scripture.
Vs 6 those that were present also validated his teaching.

Romans 16:25-26
[25]Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
[26]But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

Paul teaching is received by Revelation into the Old testament. The Spirit revealed the scripture to Him.

I would rather say Paul took the teaching of Jesus and explains it further, the same Spirit continuing the work.

What Place is Paul teaching contradicting Jesus Christ?

Jamestaiwo:
1. Please I will like to ask, What verses or Chapters in Ephesians contradict Jesus teaching?

2. Peter was not the Only one that validated Paul teaching.

3. Paul teaching is according to the scripture. Vs 6 those that were present also validated his teaching.

4. Paul teaching is received by Revelation into the Old testament. The Spirit revealed the scripture to Him.

5. I would rather say Paul took the teaching of Jesus and explains it further, the same Spirit continuing the work.

6. What Place is Paul teaching contradicting Jesus Christ?

1. If you want to go through the letter, go ahead and open a thread and we can both examine each teaching against Jesus Christ's if you want to.

2. Peter did not validate any of Paul's teachings since there is no record in fact reading any of Paul's letters at the time he, Peter, wrote what he did of Paul in his letter. And since the mention of Paul's teaching in Peter's letter is not specific, there is no telling what exactly Peter was in agreement with.

3. Wrong! Most all of the letters attributed to Paul contain at least one doctrine that directly contradicts the very teachings of Jesus Christ. See my suggestion in #1 above if you are up for it.

4. You claim does not change the fact that the contradictions are clear in the letters.

5. Paul did absolutely none of that since his letters contained what seems to amount to about 0.05 % of what are the actual Gospel teachings according to Jesus Christ.

6. See my response in #1, and we can go from there.

Kobojunkie:
1. If you want to go through the letter, go ahead and open a thread and we can both examine each teaching against Jesus Christ's if you want to.

2. Peter did not validate any of Paul's teachings since there is no record in fact reading any of Paul's letters at the time he, Peter, wrote what he did of Paul in his letter. And since the mention of Paul's teaching in Peter's letter is not specific, there is no telling what exactly Peter was in agreement with.

3. Wrong! Most all of the letters attributed to Paul contain at least one doctrine that directly contradicts the very teachings of Jesus Christ. See my suggestion in #1 above if you are up for it.

4. You claim does not change the fact that the contradictions are clear in the letters.

5. Paul did absolutely none of that since his letters contained what seems to amount to about 0.05 % of what are the actual Gospel teachings according to Jesus Christ.

6. See my response in #1, and we can go from there.

Okay let start from there.
Which book of Paul should we start from?

Jamestaiwo:
Okay let start from there.
Which book of Paul should we start from?

Pick anyone you will like to start with and we dissect the teachings validating against Jesus Christ.

Kobojunkie:
Pick anyone you will like to start with and we dissect the teachings validating against Jesus Christ.

Okay, I have picked Ephesians.
List out the subject matter there, then we start from there.

Jamestaiwo:
Okay, I have picked Ephesians.
List out the subject matter there, then we start from there.

Well, i will have to review each chapter to let you know what is of Jesus Christ and what isn't.

God's word, the holy scripture supercedes experiences, visions, dreams, human philosophy etc

Kobojunkie:
Well, i will have to review each chapter to let you know what is of Jesus Christ and what isn't.

Okay Go on

Steep:
God's word, the holy scripture supercedes experiences, visions, dreams, human philosophy etc

You are teaching Good.
Colossians 2:8
[8]Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Kobojunkie:
Well, i will have to review each chapter to let you know what is of Jesus Christ and what isn't.

Waiting for the review

Jamestaiwo:
Waiting for the review

Disclaimer: These posts are not meant as a judgment against the man named Paul. Instead, this is simply an attempt at validating that contained in letters attributed to the man named Paul against that which is the Gospel of Jesus Christ, the one who is King and Law in the Kingdom of God, the standard that is God's Word and Truth.

Ephesians 1

---

1) This first is a contradiction. In Ephesians 1 vs 1 - 2, Paul not only wishes peace to the readers but also grace, by whose authority does he do this?

In the Gospel teachings, Jesus Christ commands His followers that when going about Jerusalem among the Jews they say, ‘Peace be with this home.’ before entering a home. If the people living there love peace, your blessing of peace will stay with them. But if not, your blessing of peace will come back to you. This instruction He gave to them when He sent them out to the areas around Jerusalem. So, Jesus Christ does permit His followers to speak peace to the Jewish homes they enter but nowhere does He permit them to speak grace(Eternal Life) to anyone since Eternal Life(grace) is no man's to give.

Also, God's grace, Eternal Life is given freely and fully at the point when one becomes born-again - John 3 vs 1 - 21 (a point that even Paul acknowledges in Ephesians 1 vs 8). However, Paul is seen offering grace(Eternal life) as if a piecemeal offering, insinuating the grace received from God is not of the Eternal(unlimited) kind that God said it to be.

2) This second is not necessarily a contradiction but a point that most who read the letter of Paul tend to overlook. And this point is that most of Paul's writings are in fact addressed to an audience of Jewish Christians.

In the entire passage of Ephesians 1 vs 4 - 12, Paul reveals that the audience of his letter to the believers in Ephesus is those chosen in love to be Christ's holy people, those made free by the blood sacrifice of Jesus Christ through which they were granted forgiveness of sins because of God's rich grace. Then in verses 11-12, Paul now indicates that he and those in his audience are those chosen to be God's people, all of Jewish heritage.

The problem here is those ignorant of this, assume that all that is written in Paul's letter to the Jewish believers in the town of Ephesus, also applies to Gentiles, when in fact it doesn't. The Jewish Christians also hold on to the promise God made to their fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and as such, they will be a part of the first resurrection to take place, the resurrection of the Jews, and will inherit the Land of Canaan as promised by God in Deuteronomy 30 vs 15 -20, this in addition to an inheritance waiting for them in the Kingdom of God.

Disclaimer: These posts are not meant as a judgment against the man named Paul. Instead, this is simply an attempt at validating that contained in letters attributed to the man named Paul against that which is the Gospel of Jesus Christ, the one who is King and Law in the Kingdom of God, the standard that is God's Word and Truth.

Ephesians 2

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1) This isn't so much a contradiction as it is instead a point of grave misunderstanding for many in Christiandom. Given that the entire letter is directed primarily at an audience of Jewish Christians, his teachings on spiritual deadness(sinful living under God's Law) then make sense since it is the Jews who were previously under Law that can be sinners. In Ephesians 2 vs 1- 3 - This means this doctrine, is only meant for Jewish Christians and not for Gentile Christians.

As such, his claim in Ephesians 2 vs 4 - 10 that they, the Jews, are saved by grace(Eternal life), makes sense to those who realize this is a primarily Jewish Christian message. Following the Old Law of Moses, the only way to be free of the burden of the Law was to obtain grace(Eternal Life) - Deuteronomy 30 vs 15 - 20 - and so those Jews who believed in Jesus Christ are redeemed from the Old Law of Moses by the free gift of Eternal Life(grace). So the salvation Paul speaks of is in relation to God's Old Covenant and not Jesus Christ, God's New Covenant.

2) Another point of grave misunderstanding for many in Christiandom is what is written in Ephesians 2 vs 15

15 Christ ended the law with its many commands and rules. His purpose was to make the two groups become one in him. By doing this he would make peace. - Ephesians 2 vs 15

Where Jesus Christ instead said the following...

17 “Don’t think that I have come to destroy the Law of Moses or the teaching of the prophets. I have come not to destroy their teachings but to give full meaning to them.
18 I assure you that nothing will disappear from the law until heaven and earth are gone. The law will not lose even the smallest letter or the smallest part of a letter until it has all been done.
19 “A person should obey every command in the law, even one that does not seem important. Whoever refuses to obey any command and teaches others not to obey it will be the least important in God’s kingdom. But whoever obeys the law and teaches others to obey it will be great in God’s kingdom.
20 I tell you that you must do better than the teachers of the law and the Pharisees. If you are not more pleasing to God than they are, you will never enter God’s kingdom. - Matthew 5 vs 17 - 20

Though Paul is not wrong in that his meaning is instead that under Jesus Christ, the wall that formerly kept those of Jewish descent from mingling with those of Gentile descent was taken down, and in Jesus Christ, both two groups are at peace. This of course in no way means that Jesus Christ abolished God's Old Law as so many in Christiandom like to pretend, against Jesus Christ.

Disclaimer: These posts are not meant as a judgment against the man named Paul. Instead, this is simply an attempt at validating that contained in letters attributed to the man named Paul against that which is the Gospel of Jesus Christ, the one who is King and Law in the Kingdom of God, the standard that is God's Word and Truth.

EPHESIANS 4

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A. What Paul stated in verse 7 of Chapter 4 is however to be questioned, because according to Jesus Christ, and confirmed by Paul himself in Ephesians 1 vs 8, the grace of God, the Eternal life one receives when one believes and is born-again - John 3 vs 1 - 21-, given to men by Jesus Christ is given, not in measures, but in full.

4 There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call—
5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.
7 Christ gave each one of us a special gift. Everyone received what he wanted to give them. - Ephesians 4 vs 4 - 7

So, Paul's statement that grace is given to each one according to what he refers to as the measure of Christ's gift does not comply with that which is the Gospel of the Kingdom of God and is hence an obvious contradiction.

8 That is why the Scriptures say, “He went up high into the sky; he took prisoners with him, and he gave gifts to people.”
9 When it says, “He went up,” what does it mean? It means that he first came down low to earth.
10 So Christ came down, and he is the same one who went up. He went up above the highest heaven in order to fill everything with himself. - Ephesians 4 vs 8 - 10

B. This particular one is not a contradiction but is necessary to point out as it is important to know who the Holy Spirit is when processing the writings in the Epistles. Paul is right to assert in verses 8 -10 that the Holy Spirit is in fact Jesus Christ Himself, or the very Spirit of Truth that was inside of Jesus Christ while Jesus Christ was here on earth and taught His disciples. Following Jesus Christ's declarations regarding the Helper whom the Father would send His followers, the Spirit of Truth, the Helper is subject to Jesus Christ meaning He, the Helper, would only teach, and remind believers of that which is of Jesus Christ, and give to them only that which conforms to Jesus Christ.

What this means is that the Spirit of Truth would never reveal to believers that which was not taught by Jesus Christ Himself, nor would the Spirit attempt in any way to add, remove or change any of that which had already been decreed by Jesus Christ, meaning that the assumption that after Jesus Christ ascended into Heaven that aspects of the Gospel changed is of false doctrine.

11 And that same Christ gave these gifts to people: He made some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to go and tell the Good News, and some to care for and teach God’s people.
12 Christ gave these gifts to prepare God’s holy people for the work of serving, to make the body of Christ stronger.
13 This work must continue until we are all joined together in what we believe and in what we know about the Son of God. Our goal is to become like a full-grown man—to look just like Christ and have all his perfection. - Ephesians 4 vs 11 - 13

C.[/b]In [b]verses 11 - 12, Paul suggests that Jesus Christ made some of His followers to be apostles, some to be prophets, others as shepherds, and others as teachers over God's people, but this contradicts the Gospels where instead Jesus Christ is written to have taught instead that He alone is Teacher, Prophet, Authority, Master, and Shepherd over all those who belong to Him, insisting instead that all His followers are equals as brothers and sisters under Him - Matthew 23 vs 8 - 10 & John 10 vs 4 - 15 & Matthew 6 vs 24 . Jesus Christ is written to have sent His followers to teach His Gospel to those who are in the World - the unsaved - in Mark 16 vs 15 - 18 & Matthew 28 vs 19 - 20 & Luke 24 vs 47 - 48. He sent them out to evangelize to those in the world, teach those who are willing to believe to obey His commandments, baptizing those of them who accept Him, after which they become His once they are saved - born-again and of His flock. Jesus Christ never gave any of His own permission to herd anyone who belongs to His flock in His stead.

D. Another problem with the content of verse 11- 12 is that Paul suggests a sort of division of labor among all those who are followers of Jesus Christ, by his suggestion that some are meant to evangelize - teach the good news to the unsaved - while others are meant to be apostles and yet others meant to feed and care for God's sheep - as paid workers are meant to in John 10 vs 7 - 10. This does not line up with that taught by Jesus Christ in the Gospels where instead the work given to all followers is pretty much the same, and the task ahead is that each and every one of them does the work that Jesus Christ did and more, and at the end, when Jesus Christ returns, the work of each one of His followers would be subjected testing by the same standard of righteousness.

E. Another stack contrast exists between the suggestions of Paul regarding the makeup of the church and the Gospel teachings of Jesus Christ regarding what is His Church. Paul describes Jesus Christ as the Head with a body that has different parts doing different works in Ephesians 4 vs 14 vs 16. This again, does not align with the Gospel where Jesus Christ describes Himself as the vine and every follower of His as a branch on the Vine that is He - John 15 vs 1 - 11. Branches on a vine do not serve different purposes and do not do different works, instead, they all do one thing and that is work towards producing the same kind of fruits on the vine. And as such, the yield from each branch, as well as the fruits produced by each, is then judged according to the same standard that is the Vine.

14 Then we will no longer be like babies. We will not be people who are always changing like a ship that the waves carry one way and then another. We will not be influenced by every new teaching we hear from people who are trying to deceive us—those who make clever plans and use every kind of trick to fool others into following the wrong way.
15 No, we will speak the truth with love. We will grow to be like Christ in every way. He is the head,
16 and the whole body depends on him. All the parts of the body are joined and held together, with each part doing its own work. This causes the whole body to grow and to be stronger in love. - Ephesians 4 vs 14 - 16

If each part(branch) were instead doing its' own different work, different from the others, then it would follow that each part would require a different standard by which it's work is to be judged. However, in His Gospel, Jesus Christ instead insists that all of His followers will be judged under the very same Law, by the same standard, indicating that the expectation from them all is the same.

Disclaimer: These posts are not meant as a judgment against the man named Paul. Rather than an indictment against the person of God, it is instead, an attempt at validating that contained in letters attributed to the man named Paul against that which is the Gospel of Jesus Christ, the one who is King and Law in the Kingdom of God, the standard that is God's Word and Truth.

Kobojunkie:
Ephesians 1

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1) This first is a contradiction. In Ephesians 1 vs 1 - 2, Paul not only wishes peace to the readers but also grace, by whose authority does he do this?

In the Gospel teachings, Jesus Christ commands His followers that when going about Jerusalem among the Jews they say, ‘Peace be with this home.’ before entering a home. If the people living there love peace, your blessing of peace will stay with them. But if not, your blessing of peace will come back to you. This instruction He gave to them when He sent them out to the areas around Jerusalem. So, Jesus Christ does permit His followers to speak peace to the Jewish homes they enter but nowhere does He permit them to speak grace(Eternal Life) to anyone since Eternal Life(grace) is no man's to give.

Also, God's grace, Eternal Life is given freely and fully at the point when one becomes born-again - John 3 vs 1 - 21 (a point that even Paul acknowledges in Ephesians 1 vs 8). However, Paul is seen offering grace(Eternal life) as if a piecemeal offering, insinuating the grace received from God is not of the Eternal(unlimited) kind that God said it to be.

2) This second is not necessarily a contradiction but a point that most who read the letter of Paul tend to overlook. And this point is that most of Paul's writings are in fact addressed to an audience of Jewish Christians.

In the entire passage of Ephesians 1 vs 4 - 12, Paul reveals that the audience of his letter to the believers in Ephesus is those chosen in love to be Christ's holy people, those made free by the blood sacrifice of Jesus Christ through which they were granted forgiveness of sins because of God's rich grace. Then in verses 11-12, Paul now indicates that he and those in his audience are those chosen to be God's people, all of Jewish heritage.

The problem here is those ignorant of this, assume that all that is written in Paul's letter to the Jewish believers in the town of Ephesus, also applies to Gentiles, when in fact it doesn't. The Jewish Christians also hold on to the promise God made to their fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and as such, they will be a part of the first resurrection to take place, the resurrection of the Jews, and will inherit the Land of Canaan as promised by God in Deuteronomy 30 vs 15 -20, this in addition to an inheritance waiting for them in the Kingdom of God.

Disclaimer: These posts are not meant as a judgment against the man named Paul. Instead, this is simply an attempt at validating that contained in letters attributed to the man named Paul against that which is the Gospel of Jesus Christ, the one who is King and Law in the Kingdom of God, the standard that is God's Word and Truth.

Wow, I really love this, but let me start from here, Paul wishing them Peace and Grace in that vs 2 said Grace..... And Peace from God our Father and from The Lord Jesus Christ. He was speaking on the Authority given In Christ. It just Paul's prayer to them, not only Paul did this. Apostles also do this in 2 John 3. Jude 2. 1. Peter 1 vs 2.

Again, Eternal Life is what Makes Man born again. Once you have Eternal life you are born again. John 3:6
[6]That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

That which is born of the Spirit is Spirit. That born of Eternal life is born again.

Don't forget that the Ephesians are not Unbelievers, they are already Believers, that is why He called Saints in Eph. 1:1 to the saints.... that is why He said Grace to them. This doesn't means He was giving them Eternal life, they already have, but He was calling out there reality, calling them by who they are Grace to you.

This aspect in 2 you wrote is not so. The Gospel is not to the Jews only. Firstly, the Gospel was preached to them but rejected the Gospel. John 1:11-12
[11]He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
[12]But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
When they didn't receive Him, then He said as many as receive him, has been given power to be son of God.

The Audiences of Ephesians are Gentiles, remember in Eph. 2 vs 11. Ephesians 2:11
[11]Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
Ephesians 2:12-13
[12]That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
[13]But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

But now Gentiles by Grace through Faith has become the son of God. The Audiences of Ephesians are Gentiles, not only the Jews, Paul's letter was to the Gentiles
Ephesians 3:1
[1]For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
You see again.

Ephesians 3:8
[8]Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

The Letter was to the Gentiles who had believed In Christ Jesus in Ephesus particularly, as Said by Brother Paul

Jamestaiwo:
1. Wow, I really love this, but let me start from here, Paul wishing them Peace and Grace in that vs 2 said Grace..... And Peace from God our Father and from The Lord Jesus Christ. He was speaking on the Authority given In Christ. It just Paul's prayer to them, not only Paul did this. Apostles also do this in 2 John 3. Jude 2. 1. Peter 1 vs 2.

2. Again, Eternal Life is what Makes Man born again. Once you have Eternal life you are born again. John 3:6 [6]That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. That which is born of the Spirit is Spirit. That born of Eternal life is born again.

3. Don't forget that the Ephesians are not Unbelievers, they are already Believers, that is why He called Saints in Eph. 1:1 to the saints.... that is why He said Grace to them. This doesn't means He was giving them Eternal life, they already have, but He was calling out there reality, calling them by who they are Grace to you.

4. This aspect in 2 you wrote is not so. The Gospel is not to the Jews only. Firstly, the Gospel was preached to them but rejected the Gospel.

5 & 6. The Audiences of Ephesians are Gentiles, remember in Eph. 2 vs 11. Ephesians 2:11. The Letter was to the Gentiles who had believed In Christ Jesus in Ephesus particularly, as Said by Brother Paul

1. Regardless of how many people did it in their letters, what is against God is against God.

2. Eternal life does not make you born-again. According to Jesus Christ, being born-again means you enter into the Kingdom of God - John 3 vs 5 - 8. And last I checked, even the righteous people of God's Old Covenant Law of Moses are blessed with Eternal life but that does not mean they are born-again - Deuteronomy 30 vs 15 - 20.

3, This makes no sense.

4. Your claim in bold violates that which is contained in the Gospels. Jesus Christ's disciples were Jews, were they not? Those sealed by God from among the Jews, beginning with the disciples, were all Jews, were they not? So?

5 & 6. Paul pointed out the parts of his letter that were directed at the Gentiles, but that does not mean that the entire letter of Epistles is to Gentiles, as I already pointed out. Look, if all you can offer is a blind attempt at an argument for your side of things, then this is meaningless, don't you think?

Kobojunkie:
Ephesians 2

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1) This isn't so much a contradiction as it is instead a point of grave misunderstanding for many in Christiandom. Given that the entire letter is directed primarily at an audience of Jewish Christians, his teachings on spiritual deadness(sinful living under God's Law) then make sense since it is the Jews who were previously under Law that can be sinners. In Ephesians 2 vs 1- 3 - This means this doctrine, is only meant for Jewish Christians and not for Gentile Christians.

As such, his claim in Ephesians 2 vs 4 - 10 that they, the Jews, are saved by grace(Eternal life), makes sense to those who realize this is a primarily Jewish Christian message. Following the Old Law of Moses, the only way to be free of the burden of the Law was to obtain grace(Eternal Life) - Deuteronomy 30 vs 15 - 20 - and so those Jews who believed in Jesus Christ are redeemed from the Old Law of Moses by the free gift of Eternal Life(grace). So the salvation Paul speaks of is in relation to God's Old Covenant and not Jesus Christ, God's New Covenant.

2) Another point of grave misunderstanding for many in Christiandom is what is written in Ephesians 2 vs 15

Where Jesus Christ instead said the following...

Though Paul is not wrong in that his meaning is instead that under Jesus Christ, the wall that formerly kept those of Jewish descent from mingling with those of Gentile descent was taken down, and in Jesus Christ, both two groups are at peace. This of course in no way means that Jesus Christ abolished God's Old Law as so many in Christiandom like to pretend, against Jesus Christ.

Disclaimer: These posts are not meant as a judgment against the man named Paul. Instead, this is simply an attempt at validating that contained in letters attributed to the man named Paul against that which is the Gospel of Jesus Christ, the one who is King and Law in the Kingdom of God, the standard that is God's Word and Truth.

The Audiences of Paul's Letter are the Gentiles as I revealed in the previous quote.

Concerning the Law in Matthew 5:17
[17]Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
The Word Fulfill in Greek means Pleroo which means to accomplish or complete. The word is used in Colossians 2:10
[10]And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: complete is Pleroo.

This implies Jesus Christ came to complete or accomplish the Law because they of OLd testament couldn't complete it, because if you are guilty of one offense, you are guilty of all the Law, this making them sinner, there is no how, they could be without Sin, by this, Jesus Christ came to complete the Law for us.
Galatians 3:13
[13]Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
By Jesus Death, For those that Believe in Him, He has been made curse for their sin, redeemed us(believer) from the curse of the Law.

Romans 10:1-4
[1]Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
[2]For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
[3]For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
[4]For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

By Jesus Christ death, He accomplished the Law. Whosoever has Christ has come to the end of the Law. We are no more under the Law of Moses, because Christ has redeemed us from the Law.
The Wall that is the Law that hindered the Gentiles to be partakers of God's Promise made to Abraham has been abolished by Jesus Death, that is why Paul said in Ephesians 2:19
[19]Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
Gentiles were Stranger before they met Christ, but by Grace through Faith, they are now Fellowcitizen with the saint and household of God. Likewise today, anybody that Believe in the Finished work of Christ is Saved and redeemed from the Law.

Matthew 28:19
[19]Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

All nations is not only The Jews, but all nations, including the Gentiles.
It was the Spirit of Christ working in Paul.

Jamestaiwo:
1. The Audiences of Paul's Letter are the Gentiles as I revealed in the previous quote.

2. Concerning the Law in Matthew 5:17. This implies Jesus Christ came to complete or accomplish the Law because they of OLd testament couldn't complete it, because if you are guilty of one offense, you are guilty of all the Law, this making them sinner, there is no how, they could be without Sin, by this, Jesus Christ came to complete the Law for us.

3. By Jesus Christ death, He accomplished the Law. Whosoever has Christ has come to the end of the Law. We are no more under the Law of Moses, because Christ has redeemed us from the Law.
The Wall that is the Law that hindered the Gentiles to be partakers of God's Promise made to Abraham has been abolished by Jesus Death, that is why Paul said in Ephesians 2:19

4. All nations is not only The Jews, but all nations, including the Gentiles. It was the Spirit of Christ working in Paul.

1. So you assume that if you say it, it is true?

2. This statement of yours makes no sense.

3. You, a gentile, were never under God's Old Law of Moses to begin with - Deuteronomy 30 vs 15 - 20 - so these statements of yours are also not based on scripture but a delusion you instead subscribe to.

Also, the Law of Moses was never a wall that hindered the Gentiles from being partakers of God's promise to Abraham. So your claim regarding what is written in Ephesians 2 vs 19 is erroneous.

4. You don't seem to even comprehend what is written in Paul's letters by Paul but are all too quick to assert the delusions you seem to have been fed by others instead. How is this conversation going to go forward with that?

Kobojunkie:
1. So you assume that if you say it, it is true?

2. This statement of yours makes no sense.

3. You, a gentile, were never under God's Old Law of Moses to begin with - Deuteronomy 30 vs 15 - 20 - so these statements of yours are also not based on scripture but a delusion you instead subscribe to.

Also, the Law of Moses was never a wall that hindered the Gentiles from being partakers of God's promise to Abraham. So your claim regarding what is written in Ephesians 2 vs 19 is erroneous.

4. You don't seem to even comprehend what is written in Paul's letters by Paul but are all too quick to assert the delusions you seem to have been fed by others instead. How is this conversation going to go forward with that?

I don't think this thing can go beyond this, because you are superimposing your ideas into the Scripture.

Have you not read in Acts 15:1,5
[1]And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.
[5]But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

These were Pharisees telling the Gentiles that they must keep the the law for them to be saved, and this supposed not to be, they brought other Doctrine which was not brought by the Apostles. Base on what was discussed in this meeting in Act 15 then The Apostles and Paul interfere into the discussion

Peter's commentary on that
Acts 15:10
[10]Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
Acts 15:11
[11]But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

Peter called it a yoke for them to be keeping the Law of Moses before they are saved. We are only Saved by Grace through Faith.

Paul's commentary
Acts 13:38-39
[38]Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:
[39]And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

Paul said all that Believe are justified, made righteous from the Law of Moses the Pharisees set for them to keep.

Galatians 3:13-14
[13]Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Keeping the Law is a Yoke because the Jews themselves were not able to bear it, Paul said because we wouldn't be able to bear it, Christ has redeemed us from it.

Ephesians 2:12-15
[12]That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
[13]But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
[14]For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
[15]Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

The Gentiles are made nigh not by keeping the Law but by the Blood of Christ which means The Death of Jesus.

This Explanation is made purposely because of what you wrote that The Gentiles were not under the Law given by Moses. But they were forced to be under Law by the Pharisees. Upon this gave Paul wrote to them in His Epistles.

Jamestaiwo:


I don't think this thing can go beyond this, because you are superimposing your ideas into the Scripture.

Have you not read in Acts 15:1,5
[1]And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.
[5]But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

These were Pharisees telling the Gentiles that they must keep the the law for them to be saved, and this supposed not to be, they brought other Doctrine which was not brought by the Apostles. Base on what was discussed in this meeting in Act 15 then The Apostles and Paul interfere into the discussion

Peter's commentary on that
Acts 15:10
[10]Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
Acts 15:11
[11]But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

Peter called it a yoke for them to be keeping the Law of Moses before they are saved. We are only Saved by Grace through Faith.

Paul's commentary
Acts 13:38-39
[38]Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:
[39]And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

Paul said all that Believe are justified, made righteous from the Law of Moses the Pharisees set for them to keep.

Galatians 3:13-14
[13]Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Keeping the Law is a Yoke because the Jews themselves were not able to bear it, Paul said because we wouldn't be able to bear it, Christ has redeemed us from it.

Ephesians 2:12-15
[12]That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
[13]But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
[14]For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
[15]Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

The Gentiles are made nigh not by keeping the Law but by the Blood of Christ which means The Death of Jesus.

This Explanation is made purposely because of what you wrote that The Gentiles were not under the Law given by Moses. But they were forced to be under Law by the Pharisees. Upon this gave Paul wrote to them in His Epistles.

The problem here is, you are countering my objections to Paul's supposed opinions by offering up more of Paul's supposed opinions when instead you are meant to indicated the Truth as declared by God Himself. That is what makes your attempts at a counter utterly ridiculous.

According to scripture, God is TRUE and His Word, Jesus Christ is Truth, hence the reason why I insisted on providing God's very own Word as evidence against many of Paul's claims. Rather than approach that, you come back at me with what are more opinions as if Opinions somehow override the Word of God.

Actually, the spirit of truth is God’s revelation.

Truth is not limited to what is written. Truth existed long before man even invented writing.

Truth is a spirit, not letters. The letter is the product, the Spirit is the source.


1 John 2 v 26-27;
26 I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray.

27 As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him.

Kobojunkie:
EPHESIANS 4

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A. What Paul stated in verse 7 of Chapter 4 is however to be questioned, because according to Jesus Christ, and confirmed by Paul himself in Ephesians 1 vs 8, the grace of God, the Eternal life one receives when one believes and is born-again - John 3 vs 1 - 21-, given to men by Jesus Christ is given, not in measures, but in full.

So, Paul's statement that grace is given to each one according to what he refers to as the measure of Christ's gift does not comply with that which is the Gospel of the Kingdom of God and is hence an obvious contradiction.

B. This particular one is not a contradiction but is necessary to point out as it is important to know who the Holy Spirit is when processing the writings in the Epistles. Paul is right to assert in verses 8 -10 that the Holy Spirit is in fact Jesus Christ Himself, or the very Spirit of Truth that was inside of Jesus Christ while Jesus Christ was here on earth and taught His disciples. Following Jesus Christ's declarations regarding the Helper whom the Father would send His followers, the Spirit of Truth, the Helper is subject to Jesus Christ meaning He, the Helper, would only teach, and remind believers of that which is of Jesus Christ, and give to them only that which conforms to Jesus Christ.

What this means is that the Spirit of Truth would never reveal to believers that which was not taught by Jesus Christ Himself, nor would the Spirit attempt in any way to add, remove or change any of that which had already been decreed by Jesus Christ, meaning that the assumption that after Jesus Christ ascended into Heaven that aspects of the Gospel changed is of false doctrine.

C.[/b]In [b]verses 11 - 12, Paul suggests that Jesus Christ made some of His followers to be apostles, some to be prophets, others as shepherds, and others as teachers over God's people, but this contradicts the Gospels where instead Jesus Christ is written to have taught instead that He alone is Teacher, Prophet, Authority, Master, and Shepherd over all those who belong to Him, insisting instead that all His followers are equals as brothers and sisters under Him - Matthew 23 vs 8 - 10 & John 10 vs 4 - 15 & Matthew 6 vs 24 . Jesus Christ is written to have sent His followers to teach His Gospel to those who are in the World - the unsaved - in Mark 16 vs 15 - 18 & Matthew 28 vs 19 - 20 & Luke 24 vs 47 - 48. He sent them out to evangelize to those in the world, teach those who are willing to believe to obey His commandments, baptizing those of them who accept Him, after which they become His once they are saved - born-again and of His flock. Jesus Christ never gave any of His own permission to herd anyone who belongs to His flock in His stead.

D. Another problem with the content of verse 11- 12 is that Paul suggests a sort of division of labor among all those who are followers of Jesus Christ, by his suggestion that some are meant to evangelize - teach the good news to the unsaved - while others are meant to be apostles and yet others meant to feed and care for God's sheep - as paid workers are meant to in John 10 vs 7 - 10. This does not line up with that taught by Jesus Christ in the Gospels where instead the work given to all followers is pretty much the same, and the task ahead is that each and every one of them does the work that Jesus Christ did and more, and at the end, when Jesus Christ returns, the work of each one of His followers would be subjected testing by the same standard of righteousness.

E. Another stack contrast exists between the suggestions of Paul regarding the makeup of the church and the Gospel teachings of Jesus Christ regarding what is His Church. Paul describes Jesus Christ as the Head with a body that has different parts doing different works in Ephesians 4 vs 14 vs 16. This again, does not align with the Gospel where Jesus Christ describes Himself as the vine and every follower of His as a branch on the Vine that is He - John 15 vs 1 - 11. Branches on a vine do not serve different purposes and do not do different works, instead, they all do one thing and that is work towards producing the same kind of fruits on the vine. And as such, the yield from each branch, as well as the fruits produced by each, is then judged according to the same standard that is the Vine.
If each part(branch) were instead doing its' own different work, different from the others, then it would follow that each part would require a different standard by which it's work is to be judged. However, in His Gospel, Jesus Christ instead insists that all of His followers will be judged under the very same Law, by the same standard, indicating that the expectation from them all is the same.

Disclaimer: These posts are not meant as a judgment against the man named Paul. Rather than an indictment against the person of God, it is instead, an attempt at validating that contained in letters attributed to the man named Paul against that which is the Gospel of Jesus Christ, the one who is King and Law in the Kingdom of God, the standard that is God's Word and Truth.

A. Grace Used by Paul will be explained contextually.
Ephesians 1:7
[7]In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
Grace here has to do with what Jesus did for us at the expense of His Suffering. Likewise
Ephesians 2:8
[8]For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Also what He did at for us, not what we did.
Ephesians 3:2
[2]If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

The Grace here is Dispensation of the Grace, that is Administrating or Overseeing What Christ had done for Us. This is not Talking of Christ death, but Ministry Gift.

Ephesians 4:7
[7]But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ. Yes everyone is given according to portion of Christ's will.
The Steward, Administrating or overseeing of What Christ has done is not the same measure Christ gives to everyone.

Paul said that from the Explanation of Apostles because He was not there when Jesus gave the teaching concerning this subject.

Jesus said this Figuratively in His words.
Matt. 24 vs 45-51. Matt. 25 vs 14-30 Luke 12 vs 41 - 48. Luke 16 vs 1- 12. Jesus used Faithful, wise steward and servant in the Parable. Particularly Matt. 25 vs 14-30. He gave one Five Talents, another two and another one. He didn't give the same thing. According to what He wish.

B. I agree with that B, the Spirit of Christ will only teach what Christ taught to the Believers.

C. Paul didn't contradict Jesus here when He said we have Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists and Pastor-teacher.
Matthew 23 vs 8-10 needs to be explain contextually.
Matthew 23:2-8,10
[2]Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
[3]All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
[4]For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.
[5]But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,
[6]And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,
[7]And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.

Jesus was explaining the characters of the scribes and Pharisees, their intent and motive for things they do. Because of this, He instructed his audience in the next verses.
Matthew 23:8-10
[8]But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
For one is your master who is not the scribes and Pharisees.
[9]And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
Man is not in Original version. Call no your father, the subject is Scribes and Pharisees. So call no (scribes and Pharisees) your father. Because we have one Father, Master
[10]Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.

This Verses are not saying, we should not have call father father.
John 10 vs 4-15 [/b]saying the same thing about Jesus and others.

However, When Jesus said, Go and teach all people, this has to do with making disciples of people, just as pupils learning. Gathering of people is very important as this to be done effectively. Again, Just as We are all equal before God, no one is bigger than other in aspect of salvation, Redemption, righteousness. However, in the aspect of Ministry, we are not equal. Jesus gave some 5 talents, another 2 talents and another 1 talent. You can see as Jesus Singlehandedly said to Peter Feed me sheep.

[b]John 21:16
[16]He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

The word feed in Greek means to Shepherd, rule or take care. Jesus told Peter to take care or Shepherd the sheep. This is where Paul got His Revelation.

D. This is not a division and also is a division, because they are called to perform the same task in the same verse.
Ephesians 4: [12]For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
with One body, One Faith, One Baptism

E. EPHESIANS 4:14,15,16(The Message Bible) No prolonged infancies among us, please. We'll not tolerate babes in the woods, small children who are an easy mark for impostors.
15: God wants us to grow up, to know the whole truth and tell it in love--like Christ in everything. We take our lead from Christ, who is the source of everything we do.
16: He keeps us in step with each other. His very breath and blood flow through us, nourishing us so that we will grow up healthy in God, robust in love.

Paul didn't contradict Jesus here at all, because He has already said in vs 4-5 one body, One Spirit, one Faith, One Lord and One baptism.