OkCornel:
Where did God label all the laws and instructions in the scriptures as “Laws of Moses”?
Dude, before the 10 commandments and by extension 613 Mosaic Laws were even penned down, God has given instructions prior to that, and these were also Laws. Get it?

Indeed there were other Laws, so If it is not the Law of Moses, which Law then did God state that He wrote in the hearts of men? Where is this found to have been stated by God or any of His prophets at the time in all of scripture?

Kobojunkie:
You are the one who pretends God wrote His Law on the hearts of gentile men, and the Law referenced is the Law of Moses, God's standard of Righteousness which He stated was given only to those who are of the blood of Jacob - Deuteronomy 30 vs 15 - 20 - so you tell me what particular law it is that God wrote on the consciences of men and where God in fact did this.

Was it an unconscious act for God or something?

Was I the one who wrote Romans 2 v 13-15?

Was I the one who claimed man is now like God knowing good and evil? Genesis 3 v 22…

The instructions God handed over to Noah and his sons in Genesis 9 v 3-7, was that for the bloodline of Jacob alone to follow?

Are the weightier matters of the law (Justice and Mercy) required for only the bloodline of Jacob to keep…hmmm?

Kobojunkie:
Indeed there were other Laws, so If it is not the Law of Moses, which Law then did God state that He wrote in the hearts of men? Where is this found to have been stated by God or any of His prophets at the time in all of scripture?

Genesis 3 v 22 - Man is now like God knowing good and evil.

As such, Romans 2 v 13-15 corroborates such. The conscience of men convicting them when they commit evil. They have TH REQUIREMENTS OF THE LAW written on the hearts, thanks to their conscience, no one is without excuse.

OkCornel:
1. Was I the one who wrote Romans 2 v 13-15? Was I the one who claimed man is now like God knowing good and evil? Genesis 3 v 22…

2. The instructions God handed over to Noah and his sons in Genesis 9 v 3-7, was that for the bloodline of Jacob alone to follow?

3. Are the weightier matters of the law (Justice and Mercy) required for only the bloodline of Jacob to keep…hmmm?

1. This here is about your special interpretations of that which is written. According to you, God wrote his Law in the hearts of men, and I am trying to get you to point out exactly which Law it is that God wrote in the hearts of men and when.

2. But God didn't write the instructions which He gave to Noah in Noah's heart. According to the accounts, God told it to Noah. So when did God shift from telling men His Law to writing them in their hearts instead?

3. You would first need to explain what it is you mean by weightier things of the Law to me cause I have no clue what you mean by throwing that around particularly in this here discussion. As far as I am aware, you break one law, no matter how silly it may seem, you have transgressed all that if God's Law. That holds true regardless of what Law you are referring to as God's Law is All-or-nothing.

OkCornel:
1. Genesis 3 v 22 - Man is now like God knowing good and evil.

2. As such, Romans 2 v 13-15 corroborates such. The conscience of men convicting them when they commit evil. They have TH REQUIREMENTS OF THE LAW written on the hearts, thanks to their conscience, no one is without excuse.

1. So? Where does it say that God wrote His Law in the heart of men?

2. Look, you have to understand that I don't have your special interpretation which you seem to hold firm to there to work with so you need to properly explain what it is that you claim is corroborated to the rest of us who don't hold to these doctrines you hold to.

I don't know when the conscience became a standard of God's righteousness. When did God set it as such?

Kobojunkie:
1. So? Where does it say that God wrote His Law in the heart of men?

Romans 2 v 13-15;
13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.
14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law.
15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)

Genesis 3 v 22
And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.

Kobojunkie:

2. Look, you have to understand that I don't have your special interpretation which you seem to hold firm to there to work with so you need to properly explain what it is that you claim is corroborated to the rest of us who don't hold to these doctrines you hold to.

I don't know when the conscience became a standard of God's righteousness. When did God set it as such?

No special interpretation required. Read Genesis 3 v 22, and Romans 2 v 13-15. It's self explanatory.
Plus, Cain needed no Mosaic Law to know he committed sin by murdering Abel. He knew what was good and what was evil.

Genesis 4 v 6-7;
6 Then the Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast?
7 If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door ; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it.”

If there was no Law, how can there be sin...hmmm?

OkCornel:


Romans 2 v 13-15;
13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.
14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law.
15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)

Genesis 3 v 22
And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.



No special interpretation required. Read Genesis 3 v 22, and Romans 2 v 13-15. It's self explanatory.
Plus, Cain needed no Mosaic Law to know he committed sin by murdering Abel. He knew what was good and what was evil.

Genesis 4 v 6-7;
6 Then the Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast?
7 If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door ; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it.”

If there was no Law, how can there be sin...hmmm?

Again....where is it stated that God wrote His Law in the heart of men?

2. Look, you have to understand that I don't have your special interpretation which you seem to hold firm to there to work with so you need to properly explain what it is that you claim is corroborated to the rest of us who don't hold to these doctrines you hold to.

I don't know when the conscience became a standard of God's righteousness. When did God set it as such?

3. God's statement to Cain clearly reveals there was a Law at the time, a standard of Right-ousness as indicated by that said by God there at that time.

Kobojunkie:
1. This here is about your special interpretations of that which is written. According to you, God wrote his Law in the hearts of men, and I am trying to get you to point out exactly which Law it is that God wrote in the hearts of men and when.

Again, read Genesis 3 v 22. Mankind already knew good and evil. In Genesis 4 v 6-7 Cain knew it was a sin to murder his brother Abel. Tell me how, did God hand over a written constitution to mankind back then?

Kobojunkie:

2. But God didn't write the instructions which He gave to Noah in Noah's heart. According to the accounts, God told it to Noah. So when did God shift from telling men His Law to writing them in their hearts instead?

The point I raised with Noah's law is...God's laws are not just limited to the Mosaic Law, which you initially pretended you were confused on. He handed over instructions to Noah, his sons and by extension the human race even before Moses came to the scene.

And even prior to the instructions God handed over to Noah and his sons, mankind knew good and evil before the flood. If not, you tell me, what was the benchmark for God to arrive at this conclusion if man was clueless on good and evil?

Genesis 6 v 5-6;

5 The Lord saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time.

6 The Lord regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled.

Kobojunkie:

3. You would first need to explain what it is you mean by weightier things of the Law to me cause I have no clue what you mean by throwing that around particularly in this here discussion. As far as I am aware, you break one law, no matter how silly it may seem, you have transgressed all that if God's Law. That holds true regardless of what Law you are referring to as God's Law is All-or-nothing.

Any diligent student of the Scripture should know this. I'm really amused you're asking such an elementary question.

Matthew 23 v 23;
“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone.

Kobojunkie:
Again....where is it stated that God wrote His Law in the heart of men?

Genesis 3 v 22, Romans 2 v 13-15.

Kobojunkie:

2. Look, you have to understand that I don't have your special interpretation which you seem to hold firm to there to work with so you need to properly explain what it is that you claim is corroborated to the rest of us who don't hold to these doctrines you hold to.

Read my previous post. There's no special interpretation, it's a basic and straightforward truth for those who are not deficient in understanding.

Kobojunkie:

I don't know when the conscience became a standard of God's righteousness. When did God set it as such?

Yawn...go and check out why God boasted about Job. Perhaps you'll have a lightbulb moment there. Bear in mind, Job was not an Israelite under the obligation of the Mosaic Law. So what was the standard for him to know good and evil....hmmm?

Job 1 v 1, 8:
1. In the land of Uz there lived a man whose name was Job. This man was blameless and upright; he feared God and shunned evil.
8. Then the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil

Kobojunkie:

3. God's statement to Cain clearly reveals there was a Law at the time, a standard of Right-ousness as indicated by that said by God there at that time.

So was this Law written on tablets? Where exactly was this Law?

OkCornel:


Is there “Law & Order” in the Kingdom of God?

Are believers expected to be obedient to God’s laws? Yes or No.

Side Note: I hope you are not confusing Mosaic Law (Law for a certain people and dispensation) with God’s Law underpinned by Justice and Mercy.

These is a new law known as the perfect law of liberty which Christ brought. The first law enslaves but the new one liberates.

Ken4Christ:


These is a new law known as the perfect law of liberty which Christ brought. The first law enslaves but the new one liberates.

Does the weightier matter of the law (Justice, Mercy & Faith) enslave?

OkCornel:


Does the weightier matter of the law (Justice, Mercy & Faith) enslave?

The New covenant has a superior principle hinged on love. And when you walk in love, you will meet all the righteous requirements of the Law which includes justice, mercy and faith.

Ken4Christ:


The New covenant has a superior principle hinged on love. And when you walk in love, you will meet all the righteous requirements of the Law which includes justice, mercy and faith.

Very good, so God’s Law was never abolished, but can be fulfilled through unconditional love.

The issue in interpretation is prioritising the less weightier matters (tithing and other customary laws meant for the Israelites only) at the expense of the weightier matters (Justice, mercy and Faith - which applies to everyone)

OkCornel:
Genesis 3 v 22, Romans 2 v 13-15.
Read my previous post. There's no special interpretation, it's a basic and straightforward truth for those who are not deficient in understanding.

Again, you have to understand that I don't have your special interpretation which you seem to hold firm to there to work with so you need to properly explain what it is that you claim is corroborated to the rest of us who don't hold to these doctrines you hold to.

None of the verses you quote above corroborate your claim that God wrote His Law in the hearts of men at the beginning. In Genesis, God is written to have told His Law to Adam. In the same Genesis, God is written to have also told His Law(s) to Noah, Abraham, Isaac, and even Jacob. If God had written these laws in the hearts of men surely He would have had no need to repeat the same Law(s) to these same men. So, if you are at all serious about your claim, then you need to specify exactly where and when it was that God did this writing by at least indicating where it is written.

OkCornel:
So was this Law written on tablets? Where exactly was this Law?

Did God give Adam a tablet when He gave Adam His Law in the beginning? Why do you assume it has to be written?

Even when God gave His Law to the Israelites, though it was written, it was still passed down from parents to children and on orally. So why make an issue of the law needing to be written abeg?

Noah, Abraham, Abel, etc. were not Israelites. This isn't about Israelites and gentiles but about your claim that God's standard of righteousness was written by God on the hearts of men. Let's not deviate abeg!

Kobojunkie:
Did God give Adam a tablet when He gave Adam His Law in the beginning? Why do you assume it has to be written?

Even when God gave His Law to the Israelites, though it was written, it was still passed down from parents to children and on orally. So why make an issue of the law needing to be written abeg?

Noah, Abraham, Abel, etc. were not Israelites. This isn't about Israelites and gentiles but about your claim that God's standard of righteousness was written by God on the hearts of men. Let's not deviate abeg!

Dude, you are apparently confused.
I never mentioned the law given to Adam or Noah was written.

So don’t deviate from my question. You mentioned Cain was conscious of God’s Law.

If this law was not written on tablets, where did this Law exist if not in the hearts of men?

OkCornel:
So don’t deviate from my question. You mentioned Cain was conscious of God’s Law.
If this law was not written on tablets, where did this Law exist if not in the hearts of men?

God Himself said Cain knew what was righteous from that which was not. So?

Kobojunkie:
God Himself said Cain knew what was righteous from that which was not. So?

You mentioned there was a law around that time for Cain to know murder was a sin.

Was this law written, or unwritten?

If this law was not in the hearts of men, How did Cain know murder was a sin? Hmmm?

OkCornel:
You mentioned there was a law around that time for Cain to know murder was a sin. Was this law written, or unwritten? If this law was not in the hearts of men, How did Cain know murder was a sin? Hmmm?

I don't know for a fact that it was a sin when Cain committed murder. But I do know that when God gave Noah the Law, He made it sin punishable by death at that point by His Law which He spoke to Noah.
Sin is defined by God's Law and it is the Law that one transgresses when one sins.

Kobojunkie:
I don't know for a fact that it was a sin when Cain committed murder. But I do know that when God gave Noah the Law, He made it sin at that point by His Law which He spoke to Noah.
Sin is defined by God's Law and it is the Law that one transgresses when one sins.

Oh so men were lawless before Noah came to the scene right?

How can there be sin/transgression if there is no law?

OkCornel:
1. Oh so men were lawless before Noah came to the scene right?
2. How can there be sin/transgression if there is no law?

1. How can men be lawless before Noah when God made it abundantly clear by His statement to Cain in Genesis 4 that there was a standard of righteousness aka Law in place at that time? Abel was declared righteous by God by God's standard which existed at that time.

2. There has always been Law even from the time of Adam. Adam transgressed God's Law when He sinned. God pointed out that there was a Law in His statement to Cain in Genesis 4. So why do you assume there was no Law in place?

Kobojunkie:
1. How can men be lawless before Noah when God made it abundantly clear by His statement to Cain in Genesis 4 that there was a standard of righteousness aka Law in place at that time? Abel was declared righteous by God by God's standard which existed at that time.

2. There has always been Law even from the time of Adam. Adam transgressed God's Law when He sinned. God pointed out that there was a Law in His statement to Cain in Genesis 4. So why do you assume there was no Law in place?

So where was this Law of God existing before the one written by Moses? If it’s not in the hearts of men?

How did mankind know good and evil?


Please explain!

OkCornel:
1. So where was this Law of God existing before the one written by Moses? If it’s not in the hearts of men?
2. How did mankind know good and evil?
Please explain!

1. Again, as recorded, God spoke His Law to Adam. He is also written to have spoken His Law to Noah, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. So, surely, it is not out of the question to believe God's Law was spoken to men at that time.

2. Adam knew good from evil because God gave to Him His Law. Even to Abel and Cain, a Law existed. God gave His Law to the men of Old so it is not farfetched to believe that God's Law was given to men by God.

Kobojunkie:
1. Again, as recorded, God spoke His Law to Adam. He is also written to have spoken His Law to Noah, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. So, surely, it is not out of the question to believe God's Law was spoken to men at that time.

2. Adam knew good from evil because God gave to Him His Law. Even to Abel and Cain, a Law existed. God gave His Law to the men of Old so it is not farfetched to believe that God's Law was given to men by God.

Adam knew good from evil because he ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Mankind by extension knew good and evil. And God affirmed that.

Genesis 3 v 22;
And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever


That being said, how did Cain know murder is a sin, if he didn't know by heart hmmm? I thought you mentioned earlier there was a law in place at the time. Where was this law existing hmmm?

OkCornel:
1. Adam knew good from evil because he ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Mankind by extension knew good and evil. And God affirmed that.

Genesis 3 v 22;
And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever

2. That being said, how did Cain know murder is a sin, if he didn't know by heart hmmm? I thought you mentioned earlier there was a law in place at the time. Where was this law existing hmmm?

1. Adam had God's Law and Sin is defined by God's Law such that when Adam disobeyed(sinned against God) God,what He did was trangress God's Law as given to Adam by God hence Adam knew good from evil even before Adam ate front the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

2. Again, according to God, Cain had God's Law of right from wrong at the time he committed the murder.

Kobojunkie:
1. Adam had God's Law and Sin is defined by God's Law such that when Adam disobeyed(sinned against God) God,what He did was trangress God's Law as given to Adam by God hence Adam knew good from evil even before Adam ate front the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

2. Again, according to God, Cain had God's Law of right from wrong at the time he committed the murder.

Where was this Law existing oooo...

If it wasn't in the hearts of men, where was this Law existing? Why is it too hard for you to answer this?

Was God sending them daily reminders?

OkCornel:
1. Where was this Law existing oooo...

If it wasn't in the hearts of men, where was this Law existing? Why is it too hard for you to answer this?

Was God sending them daily reminders?

Again, what what written is that God told His Law to men beginning with Adam, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob.... so is is s leap to assume that instead God wrote it on their hearts since there is no evidence of this.

Even in the case or Cain, since God was in communication with Cain, it is not farfetched to believe God revealed His Law also to Cain and Abel.

However, a huge leap is required to instead be believe that God wrote His Law in the hearts of men instead this since it is not written or suggested that God did that. Also, there would be the question of which Law was it that God supposedly wrote on the hearts of men and when?
▪︎Was it the Law that He gave to Adam?
▪︎Or the Law that He gave to Cain and Abel?
▪︎Or the Law that He gave to Noah?
▪︎Or the one He gave to Abraham, or the version He gave to Isaac...?

OkCornel:


Very good, so God’s Law was never abolished, but can be fulfilled through unconditional love.

The issue in interpretation is prioritising the less weightier matters (tithing and other customary laws meant for the Israelites only) at the expense of the weightier matters (Justice, mercy and Faith - which applies to everyone)

It was abolished because of the attached condition of curse that was included in it - Deuteronomy 28:15-68.

The entire nation of the Jews came under a curse because they couldn't keep the law.

Christ came to redeem them from that curse and ushered in grace - Galatians 3:13, Romans 7:6.

But it's abolition doesn't water down the requirements of righteousness. Rather, it brought a stricter standard but spiced up with grace.

What this means is that instant death is no longer applied when you fall into errors. Grace gives you multiple opportunities to repent and make right your wrongs.

Kobojunkie:
Again, what what written is that God told His Law to men beginning with Adam, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob.... so is is s leap to assume that instead God wrote it on their hearts since there is no evidence of this.

Even in the case or Cain, since God was in communication with Cain, it is not farfetched to believe God revealed His Law also to Cain and Abel.

However, a huge leap is required to instead be believe that God wrote His Law in the hearts of men instead this since it is not written or suggested that God did that. Also, there would be the question of which Law was it that God supposedly wrote on the hearts of men and when?
▪︎Was it the Law that He gave to Adam?
▪︎Or the Law that He gave to Cain and Abel?
▪︎Or the Law that He gave to Noah?
▪︎Or the one He gave to Abraham, or the version He gave to Isaac...?

You’re still beating around the bush. Kobojunkie, before the 10 commandments and other instructions were written down by Moses, in what form did God’s law exist, and where did it exist if it was not in the heart of man?

Ken4Christ:


It was abolished because of the attached condition of curse that was included in it - Deuteronomy 28:15-68.

The entire nation of the Jews came under a curse because they couldn't keep the law.

Christ came to redeem them from that curse and ushered in grace - Galatians 3:13, Romans 7:6.

But it's abolition doesn't water down the requirements of righteousness. Rather, it brought a stricter standard but spiced up with grace.

What this means is that instant death is no longer applied when you fall into errors. Grace gives you multiple opportunities to repent and make right your wrongs.

What was abolished? The customary and ceremonial requirements of the law? Or the weightier matters of the law?

OkCornel:
You’re still beating around the bush. Kobojunkie, before the 10 commandments and other instructions were written down by Moses, in what form did God’s law exist, and where did it exist if it was not in the heart of man?

There is no Bush to beat around.

Before the 10 commandments aka the Law of Moses, God is written, in scripture, to have spoken His Law directly to men. Albeit, not all men who God spoke to are written of in scripture but the record does show that God spoke His Law to some of those recorded - Adam, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob... so we have evidence of God doing this.

And we also have evidence of God reminding Cain that he, Cain, already had God's standard of righteousness meaning this information, God's Law had been communicated to Cain before He murdered His brother, Abel.

Again, all this we have evidence of right there in scripture.

What I am asking you is this. Provide evidence for your claim that God Himself instead wrote His Law in the hearts of men, this prior to given them the Law of Moses which was written down, not by God but by men, albeit as commanded by God.

Kobojunkie:
There is no Bush to beat around.

Before the 10 commandments aka the Law of Moses, God is written, in scripture, to have spoken His Law directly to men. Albeit, not all men who God spoke to are written of in scripture but the record does show that God spoke His Law to some of those recorded - Adam, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob... so we have evidence of God doing this.

And we also have evidence of God reminding Cain that he, Cain, already had God's standard of righteousness meaning this information, God's Law had been communicated to Cain before He murdered His brother, Abel.

Again, all this we have evidence of right there in scripture.

What I am asking you is this. Provide evidence for your claim that God Himself instead wrote His Law in the hearts of men, this prior to given them the Law of Moses which was written down, not by God but by men, albeit as commanded by God.

Genesis 3 v 22;
And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever

2. That being said, how did Cain know murder is a sin, if he didn't know by heart hmmm? I thought you mentioned earlier there was a law in place at the time. Where was this law existing hmmm?


Kobojunkie, with the above points … even an idiot can figure it out. And I don’t think you’re worse off than an idiot.

That being said, how was God’s law known by man in the days of Adam to Noah even before writing was invented?