membranus:


All countries give their citizens some sort of subsidies, whether agricultural or industrial wise. Since Nigeria did not go the agricultural way, there must be some way we the masses must benefit from the vast resources in this country, thereforeif it through petroleum subsidy, let it be. All of us cannot work with government with easy access to loot and share the national cake.

Yes, and all those countries pay for those subsides by taxing everyone heavily...and they only give some people subsidies...the poorest of the poor. Or selected groups. Not everyone. And if we charged taxes at the rates they do in those countries, you guys will cry and complain.

Yes, the masses benefit from 'cheap prices', but at the end, the market price must be paid...from our oil revenue...meaning we have to take loans to fund things like projects and salaries, as subsidy costs increase. Guess where the money to repay the loan will come from? The massess.

Things cost money. Either we pay market price for petrol at the pump...or we pay for it in loans, debts, and more loans....or we make everyone pay tax...including beggars and the unemployed...to fund the subsidy. It costs money to refine petrol. Selling it at a loss...and paying a subsidy to cover that loss inadequately for 50 years has led to us losing 4 good refineries and being a net importer of fuel.

As for Ghana, they are near to a boiling point, and their government are finding it more difficult to control the citizens, very soon the world will hear from them.

Niger pays N400 and above for fuel, as does Cameroon, and even Sierra Leone and Liberia. They haven't exploded.

Plus Ghana makes enough profit to keep two refineries running...ditto Niger (one refinery).

Kobonaire234:



Yes, and all those countries pay for those subsides by taxing everyone heavily...and they only give some people subsidies...the poorest of the poor. Or selected groups. Not everyone. And if we charged taxes at the rates they do in those countries, you guys will cry and complain.

Yes, the masses benefit from 'cheap prices', but at the end, the market price must be paid...from our oil revenue...meaning we have to take loans to fund things like projects and salaries, as subsidy costs increase. Guess where the money to repay the loan will come from? The massess.

Things cost money. Either we pay market price for petrol at the pump...or we pay for it in loans, debts, and more loans....or we make everyone pay tax...including beggars and the unemployed...to fund the subsidy. It costs money to refine petrol. Selling it at a loss...and paying a subsidy to cover that loss inadequately for 50 years has led to us losing 4 good refineries and being a net importer of fuel.



Niger pays N400 and above for fuel, as does Cameroon, and even Sierra Leone and Liberia. They haven't exploded.

Plus Ghana makes enough profit to keep two refineries running...ditto Niger (one refinery).

keep writing trash all in the name of sounding woke

Bantu10:


keep writing trash all in the name of sounding woke

Okay...I hope you are selling the bread you baked for N1000 per loaf at N200 per loaf , meaning you lose N800 , to help the poor survive.....poor man must survive, and inflation must be prevented...

Sometimes I wonder who is talking rubbish?

Kobonaire234:


Our refineires are not funcitonal because it costs over N300 to refine one liter of fuel...and Nigerians want to buy that one liter below N200 or even N100.

Unless your name is Dangote, you won't risk investing in refining crude, and as NNPC has found out, there won't be enough profit to keep any refiniery running...plus the free money avaialable due to subsides means....corruption and looting.

Have you asked why it cost 300naira to refine 1ltr?

yesloaded:


Have you asked why it cost 300naira to refine 1ltr?

Have you ever asked why a plastic bottle of coke costs N250 , instead of N10?

Kobonaire234:



Yes, and all those countries pay for those subsides by taxing everyone heavily...and they only give some people subsidies...the poorest of the poor. Or selected groups. Not everyone. And if we charged taxes at the rates they do in those countries, you guys will cry and complain.

Yes, the masses benefit from 'cheap prices', but at the end, the market price must be paid...from our oil revenue...meaning we have to take loans to fund things like projects and salaries, as subsidy costs increase. Guess where the money to repay the loan will come from? The massess.

Things cost money. Either we pay market price for petrol at the pump...or we pay for it in loans, debts, and more loans....or we make everyone pay tax...including beggars and the unemployed...to fund the subsidy. It costs money to refine petrol. Selling it at a loss...and paying a subsidy to cover that loss inadequately for 50 years has led to us losing 4 good refineries and being a net importer of fuel.



Niger pays N400 and above for fuel, as does Cameroon, and even Sierra Leone and Liberia. They haven't exploded.

Plus Ghana makes enough profit to keep two refineries running...ditto Niger (one refinery).

They haven't exploded because they don't have large crude oil and gas deposits like Nigeria, whose benefits are being enjoyed brazenly by only a few segment of the population. So since their deposits are not enough to satisfy their country energy needs, they therefore paid for what they buy.

As for making profits from refining oil, all refineries from across the world makes profits (except Nigeria), but it is how those profits are managed that determine national development. Ghana is now facing the problem of government functionaries mismanaging the little money being made from their oil exploration and production just like Nigeria. Like I said before, public sentiments there against their government are nearing boiling point. And besides Ghana does not have that large enough of deposits to expect subsidies from their government just like it is being done across oil rich Arab governments, where a lot of their national needs are being subsidised.

Nigeria resources are being mismanaged, including the subsidy regime itself, that's why they are finding it difficult to maintain it. And even if they remove the subsidy, they will still build a strategy around it to continue cheating the masses, while the gains from it will still be looted by a minute percentage of the people.

Like I said earlier, dissolution or restructuring of the country is the solution to the rotten internal core of this nation, in the guise of corruption, which have destroyed everything of values.

Kobonaire234:


Have you ever asked why a plastic bottle of coke costs N250 , instead of N10?

Plastic bottle of coke was 200naira here (retail price) but not 250naira

Mind you, when soft drink was sold for 5naira, how much is dollar/Naira back then?

I asked u the question based on your analysis.

yesloaded:


Plastic bottle of coke was 200naira here (retail price) but not 250naira

Mind you, when soft drink was sold for 5naira, how much is dollar/Naira back then?

I asked u the question based on your analysis.

There is your answer.

membranus:


They haven't exploded because they don't have large crude oil and gas deposits like Nigeria, whose benefits are being enjoyed brazenly by only a few segment of the population. So since their deposits are not enough to satisfy their country energy needs, they therefore paid for what they buy.

That's a very poor way of looking at Ghana's economy. Ghana has corruption, bad governance issues, and a bad currency.

As for making profits from refining oil, all refineries from across the world makes profits (except Nigeria), but it is how those profits are managed that determine national development. Ghana is now facing the problem of government functionaries mismanaging the little money being made from their oil exploration and production just like Nigeria. Like I said before, public sentiments there against their government are nearing boiling point. And besides Ghana does not have that large enough of deposits to expect subsidies from their government just like it is being done across oil rich Arab governments, where a lot of their national needs are being subsidised.

Neither does Nigeria. We don't earn enough from oil...at best 70 billion dollars a year if oil remained at 100 dollars per barrel throughout the year....when we need something like 200 billion or more before we can even talk about earning enough money for our needs.

Nigeria resources are being mismanaged, including the subsidy regime itself, that's why they are finding it difficult to maintain it. And even if they remove the subsidy, they will still build a strategy around it to continue cheating the masses, while the gains from it will still be looted by a minute percentage of the people.

Because subsidy means free money, mismanagement is going to enter into the issue. (That's why it has to go).

But even without it, subsidy would still be expensive for the reason that production costs rise every year....and if we want to keep on selling fuel cheaply, we either raise the amount of money paid in subsides...or we reduce the amount paid in subsidy, which then manifests in higher prices.

And eventually, the debt that results from maintaining subsides becomes too much for the economy to bear. Because a time comes when subsidy is eating most of the budget, and you have to finance the budget via loans...(That's why East germany collapsed...they subsidsed everything...and while it meant that poor people had a good standard of living...the debt that resulted was too much a burden)

Subsidy just takes the burden of high prices and replaces it with the burden of high debts and loans.

Like I said earlier, dissolution or restructuring of the country is the solution to the rotten internal core of this nation, in the guise of corruption, which have destroyed everything of values.

[/quote]

We can divide the country, but it still does not change the fact that you would get cheap fuel...either by paying for it via loans and high taxes...or both....or you just pay the market price.

Things cost money.

sukkot:
hehe my brother i dey hear you very well and i agree but that one still mean say none of these guys na messiah. they dont have any magic tricks because if they did they would have used it before. so these guys are not coming in to save anybody. they are simply coming in so that each tribesman can be happy that his tribe is president. see i would respect the guy if he said he wants obi to win because he wants to see an igboman as president. but to say if obi comes in nigeria would turn to dubai is a lie from the pits of hell. thats all am saying. none of these guys na messiah ooooo . obi will become president if it be the will of GOD and when he heaves in 2027 nigeria would still be a pile of shit or worse

no be Messiah at all o. But I really think he is the least of the three evils.

Treadway:
no be Messiah at all o. But I really think he is the least of the three evils.

and i agree but doesnt mean he would fix nigeria or even knows how to.

Kobonaire234:


There is your answer.

No that's not my answer


There's no justification for inability to refine oil locally

Are you saying dangote will refine 1ltr of oil at 300naira?

Kobonaire234:


That's a very poor way of looking at Ghana's economy. Ghana has corruption, bad governance issues, and a bad currency.



Neither does Nigeria. We don't earn enough from oil...at best 70 billion dollars a year if oil remained at 100 dollars per barrel throughout the year....when we need something like 200 billion or more before we can even talk about earning enough money for our needs.



Because subsidy means free money, mismanagement is going to enter into the issue. (That's why it has to go).

But even without it, subsidy would still be expensive for the reason that production costs rise every year....and if we want to keep on selling fuel cheaply, we either raise the amount of money paid in subsides...or we reduce the amount paid in subsidy, which then manifests in higher prices.

And eventually, the debt that results from maintaining subsides becomes too much for the economy to bear. Because a time comes when subsidy is eating most of the budget, and you have to finance the budget via loans...(That's why East germany collapsed...they subsidsed everything...and while it meant that poor people had a good standard of living...the debt that resulted was too much a burden)

Subsidy just takes the burden of high prices and replaces it with the burden of high debts and loans.


We can divide the country, but it still does not change the fact that you would get cheap fuel...either by paying for it via loans and high taxes...or both....or you just pay the market price.

Things cost money.

You are yet to answer my query above, even if they the petroleum subsidy entirely removed, how will the gains from it benefit the wretched masses of the country? Will it not become an additional money to loot by the country's elites, hiding under the guise of providing shoddy infrastructural facilities?

membranus:


You are yet to answer my query above, even if they the petroleum subsidy entirely removed, how will the gains from it benefit the wretched masses of the country? Will it not become an additional money to loot by the country's elites, hiding under the guise of providing shoddy infrastructural facilities?

Benefits

1. No debts from subsidy...because we won't need to spend budget money on subsides anymore.

2.As for 'it becomes additional money to loot'......that is why we are a democracy. We now have the power to put pressure on our leaders to ensure money is spent.

3.Back to benefits. No subsidy means that refining petrol makes sense from an economic view...which means that there would be more investment in refineries at home (Dangote will have competiton)...which means more jobs, directly and indirectly...and more tax revenues for government to spend on the budget.

4.Finally, it means that we no longer waste scarce forex eventually on importation and subsidy...which means more dollars available...which means....naira value goes up, and 'prices of petrol eventually drop' so to speak.

yesloaded:


No that's not my answer


There's no justification for inability to refine oil locally

Are you saying dangote will refine 1ltr of oil at 300naira?

He will even refine it more than that...because he has to pay salaries, running costs, cost of crude (government is selling crude to him at market price, the only concession made is that he will buy in naira), and then there is transport costs.

Oga, what you really want is N40 fuel. I am telling you it is not possible.

If you can't get that, sorry.

And you did not answer my own question...will you sell at a loss to help the poor?

Your question is rhetorical....you are not interested in my answer...because you know the truth , and the truth is bitter.You just want to call me an oppressor.

You are the people that voted for Buhari because he promised you N40 fuel.

Kobonaire234:


He will even refine it more than that...because he has to pay salaries, running costs, cost of crude (government is selling crude to him at market price, the only concession made is that he will buy in naira), and then there is transport costs.

Oga, what you really want is N40 fuel. I am telling you it is not possible.

If you can't get that, sorry.

And you did not answer my own question...will you sell at a loss to help the poor?

Your question is rhetorical....you are not interested in my answer...because you know the truth , and the truth is bitter.You just want to call me an oppressor.

You are the people that voted for Buhari because he promised you N40 fuel.

Hmmm

Your last line really baffles me

Well, check my previous post to know my person

Good morning

yesloaded:


Hmmm

Your last line really baffles me

Well, check my previous post to know my person

Good morning

If you don't want cheap fuel, why are you so bothered about subsidy removal?

You want cheap fuel. Like Buhari and company.

yesloaded:
This country will never stop to amaze me, we have crude oil but our refinery not functional just because few people are making huge amount of money out of this misfortune

Incumbent administration promised us functional refinery but we are yet to see one till today even after 7years and 6months

Nigerians need to wake up to reality

Al Our leaders are evil ,I can't fathom how an individual will built a working refinery of global standard,but a whole nation cannot boast of one, something is wrong somewhere.

Kobonaire234:


Benefits

1. No debts from subsidy...because we won't need to spend budget money on subsides anymore.

2.As for 'it becomes additional money to loot'......that is why we are a democracy. We now have the power to put pressure on our leaders to ensure money is spent.

3.Back to benefits. No subsidy means that refining petrol makes sense from an economic view...which means that there would be more investment in refineries at home (Dangote will have competiton)...which means more jobs, directly and indirectly...and more tax revenues for government to spend on the budget.

4.Finally, it means that we no longer waste scarce forex eventually on importation and subsidy...which means more dollars available...which means....naira value goes up, and 'prices of petrol eventually drop' so to speak.

All these your points for removing the subsidy only holds water in a government which have tight reins on how the revenues of the country are being spent. And not in Nigeria where a common Accountant General of the nation have the opportunity and effrontery to singly loot N170bn of its commonwealth, and nothing is being done about it. Or where a former NNPC head hide a private stash of foreign currencies in a safe in his village, or where a former Minister of Petroleum Resources personally looted almost $3bn of the national treasury.

Or moreover Dangote refinery is going to come on course in 2023, so the FX spent on oil importation will remain in the country, and the subsidy part of it will be lessened. And Dangote does not need a competitor, its refining capacity is enough for the national needs and above.

And as for democracy and pressure upon our leaders to behave, the abrogated powers of our criminal leadership and beaurocracy are beyond the influence of the voting masses. They are all the same flux of polithiefcians moving from one party to another, rigging the laws to favour themselves.

So let the subsidy remains, it is the only thing the masses enjoy in this highly molested economy.

membranus:


All these your points for removing the subsidy only holds water in a government which have tight reins on how the revenues of the country are being spent. And not in Nigeria where a common Accountant General of the nation have the opportunity and effrontery to singly loot N170bn of its commonwealth, and nothing is being done about it. Or where a former NNPC head hide a private stash of foreign currencies in a safe in his village, or where a former Minister of Petroleum Resources personally looted almost $3bn of the national treasury.

Or moreover Dangote refinery is going to come on course in 2023, so the FX spent on oil importation will remain in the country, and the subsidy part of it will be lessened. And Dangote does not need a competitor, its refining capacity is enough for the national needs and above.

And as for democracy and pressure upon our leaders to behave, the abrogated powers of our criminal leadership and beaurocracy are beyond the influence of the voting masses. They are all the same flux of polithiefcians moving from one party to another, rigging the laws to favour themselves.

So let the subsidy remains, it is the only thing the masses enjoy in this highly molested economy.

Then don't complain when we take loans to make up the deficit caused by the subsidy. Infact, stop complaining about Buhari's loans...

Things cost money.

FODA:
Al Our leaders are evil ,I can't fathom how an individual will built a working refinery of global standard,but a whole nation cannot boast of one, something is wrong somewhere.

Dangote is building his refinery in anticipation of the subsidy removal next year...which means he can charge full market price for his refined products, and make a healthy profit to keep the refinery running well.

As for why nnpc refineries don't work, for the last 50 years, government has forced NNPC to sell fuel from the refineries, first for a bit of its profit, then at a loss. As a result...NNPC did not have enough profit to keep its refineries working well...and over 3 decades, they all collapsed.

Plus subsidy made it profitable to invest in stealing government money, instead of building refineries.