sino:
Hmmm, i have a feeling you'll make such a good husband insAllah. I pray when the time comes, Allah blesses you with a compertible partner amin.
You need to work on your being percieved as snubbish and mean, and the best way is by spreading the salam with a smiling face...its sadaqah(hadith) .
Shyness as been discussed on here, its got its good and bad, most important thing is be confident in yourself.
I want to agree with you on d bolded, its really nice to see a young man thinking in such direction...putting it in another way; "be the best man for the woman of your dreams".
NB: You know you aint too young to get married ehn? You fit do am first before all dem dis big bros wey dey hia o lol
I wish you the best in your academics.

Thanks a lot for your prayer & words of encouragement and May Almighty grant u d best too, and assist us all(Amin).

tbaba1234: Three Issues, I don't know if they have been addressed already...

i. Traditional practices in Marriages ,

I am not a yoruba person but i do see myself possibly getting married to one. During their traditional weddings, I see the men have to lie down flat with their heads on the ground...

Personally, I can not put my head on the floor for any man because that is only reserved for Allah... It is Islamically wrong as well.. Ca one get out of this kind of tradition without being seen as rude or disrespectful.

Salam alaykum, Tbaba, how now? I've quite missed on this thread. really surprised about you not being Yoruba, and you not being married. I assumed you were married with children. so is it another marriage or your first? if you're single, then you must be the most serious single man I know. can i guess: are you from Auchi, or you are a northerner then?

as for this issue of prostrating. you need to be Yoruba to understand. you only have this dilemma at your nikkah, but we live with it everyday. prostrating is so ingrained into our culture that if you try to even stiffen a little when greeting the elders, they would be looking at you funny, before calling your parents aside. sometimes I wonder how our people have been able to separate their religion from their actual practices so much. now that you have thought about if before hand, you should be home and dry without prostration on dat day.

snubish:

Salam alaykum, Tbaba, how now? I've quite missed on this thread. really surprised about you not being Yoruba, and you not being married. I assumed you were married with children. so is it another marriage or your first? if you're single, then you must be the most serious single man I know. can i guess: are you from Auchi, or you are a northerner then?

as for this issue of prostrating. you need to be Yoruba to understand. you only have this dilemma at your nikkah, but we live with it everyday. prostrating is so ingrained into our culture that if you try to even stiffen a little when greeting the elders, they would be looking at you funny, before calling your parents aside. sometimes I wonder how our people have been able to separate their religion from their actual practices so much. now that you have thought about if before hand, you should be home and dry without prostration on dat day.

I am a young dude o!!, late 20s and i don't even look it... Married twice ke!! I should be getting married soon though insha Allah, maybe next year. Hopefully, that would be my first and last marriage insha Allah. one wife and one marriage should do... I think a lot of you will be shocked if/when you see me ...

Do i come across as serious? hehehehehe...

I am neither from Auchi nor a northerner... I am from Edo state though and i have some northern blood from my grand-dad (mum side).

WOW!

@ibrosaunks, did you send a message?

email me - tbaba_1234@yahoo.com

@ tbaba. impressive, pleasantly surprised. nice to know about Muslims from edo state without being Auchi. and you make look like polygamy should be avoided at all costs; personal conviction or global economic recession?

snubish: @ tbaba. impressive, pleasantly surprised. nice to know about Muslims from edo state without being Auchi. and you make look like polygamy should be avoided at all costs; personal conviction or global economic recession?

Treating one of the wife unfairly means i have to answer to Allah... Polygamy is all about justice, that is the condition as stated in the Quran... It is not about having money... It is very difficult to be just between two women, particularly with emotions involved....

Polygamy is not conditional on money so the question for anyone who wants to engage in polygamy is about justice...

It is easier for me to be just to one woman.... I prefer the easy route....

usermane:
Thanks a lot for your prayer & words of encouragement and May Almighty grant u d best too, and assist us all(Amin).

You are welcome bro and
Ameen mashallah!

tbaba1234:



I am a young dude o!!...

one wife and one marriage? good heavens! why

F00028:
one wife and one marriage? good heavens! why

I think he posted his reasons above

Marriage Ceremonies

A normal nikkah should not take up to 30 minutes and you are done... The reception should be simple as well and should not be an excuse to waste money....

Allah has made the muslim wedding very simple...

There are many practises which muslim have incorporated that are just wrong

i. Kissing in public- I do not know when it became ok for muslims to lock lips in public.... Not even on your wedding day

ii. Music, Dancing, Free mixing and alcohol: Some of these practises are prevelant even in muslim weddings...

iii. Wedding rings? - Seriously what does this mean

I spoke to a close friend yesterday, he is trying to get married.... He met a sister that He liked so they started talking about marriage but there were too many obstacles:

Like kissing,she said at least she would want a peck

She also wanted a special song they will dance to

She could not also assure him that there wont b alcohol

Then wedding rings argument....

Too many obstacles, so he couldn't go ahead with it.

Why are we making marriage difficult with all these unnecessary things?

^Let the guy not compromise on the alcohol part and work on sitting arrangements. Those are not impossible things to get over. You can request that both your families not serve alcohol and also have it printed on their IV.

For the entry Music, a comment was made by a Christian MC at a friend of mine's wedding that made me sad. So, I know what you mean. However, let them select an Islamic tune that at least makes sense in terms of lyrics.

As for kissing on wedding day, let your friend get over it and land that thing. Yes we know, it isn't the most encouraged activity. However, he will be kissing his wife now. Just one light one.

As for the ring, we know it is not standard Islamic practice and personally I hate jewelry on my skin even a ring. However, everybody knows it is just a token.

Your friend should show maturity and go and marry the babe jor.

Counsellor Mac, all this you are saying is just theoretical, when will you start practicalizing it? Lol. On a serious note, there are some actions that are not unislamic, but form part of our culture, i believe we can move on with that.

olawalebabs: Counsellor Mac, all this you are saying is just theoretical, when will you start practicalizing it? Lol. On a serious note, there are some actions that are not unislamic, but form part of our culture, i believe we can move on with that.

You should stop, it is not funny. If God gives me the right mix, I may "praticalise" quickly. If not yet, let me stay neutral. Not being married is not a big problem, marrying for the wrong reasons or the wrong person is a mistake that may destroy a man's life. I am content with where I am even if I look forward to better things.

maclatunji: ^
As for kissing on wedding day, let your friend get over it and land that thing. Yes we know, it isn't the most encouraged activity. However, he will be kissing his wife now. Just one light one.

As for the ring, we know it is not standard Islamic practice and personally I hate jewelry on my skin even a ring. However, everybody knows it is just a token.

Your friend should show maturity and go and marry the babe jor.

He is going to be doing a lot of things with his wife, not all of it is for public consumption. That includes kissing...

Nikkah is a part of your faith, It is important it is done right....

As long as rings are not accompanied with the belief that it has some kind of effect on the marriage, then there is nothing wrong with it in principle....but it is not a sunnah to exchange rings on your wedding day...

We live in a world where a husband can get into trouble for losing his 'wedding ring'....

^You and your friend need to relax. He is kissing her nothing else. Just placing his lips lightly on her lips. Telling little boys that you only kiss your wife after you marry her. His intention should free him of much blame even in Allah's sight.

This shouldn't be the reason not to marry the girl. It is rather ludicrous.

maclatunji: ^You and your friend need to relax. He is kissing her nothing else. Just placing his lips lightly on her lips. Telling little boys that you only kiss your wife after you marry her. His intention should free him of much blame even in Allah's sight.

This shouldn't be the reason not to marry the girl. It is rather ludicrous.

I do not know whether he had other disagreements with her, i only shared the ones, he told me. At some point, the disagreements might be enough not to go ahead...

What do you kiss in a marriage? It is just a public show... What does it achieve?

There is nothing wrong in giving your wife a peck in public or holding hands and all those mushy stuff... It shouldn't be a public show plus there is limit to the affection that can be shown in public... Muslims are conservative people.

This fatwa supports your position on the issue:

The practices that you mention – exchanging wedding bands and kissing your wife on the lips – are lawful in and of themselves. Regarding the ring, however, you should have your ring made of something other than pure gold. The woman's can be of gold.

These practices, though they might be at variance with the wedding traditions that you personally are familiar with, are harmless. You may honor these local customs.

As for the fact that the people in that society are predominantly Christians, this does not mean you have to refrain from honoring their non-religious customs. Sometimes, it is better to observe those customs to avoid difficulties or to bring about positive outcomes.

Ibn Taymiyah makes this clear in his book entitled Iqtidâ' al-Sirât al-Mustaqîm. He writes (176):
If a Muslim lives in a non-Muslim country, regardless of whether or not that country is hostile with the Muslim countries, he will not be obligated to make himself appear different than them. This is on account of the difficulties that doing so can pose. Indeed, it might become preferable or even obligatory for him to conform to their outward practices if there is a benefit for the faith in doing so like inviting them to Islam, or preventing hardship for the Muslims, or for realizing any other wholesome intention.

In this case, your observing these harmless local customs is desirable, since it brings benefits to your marriage. It endears your wife to you, who is a convert to Islam, and since these customs are not unlawful in and of themselves, such endearment is desirable. It also prevents unnecessary discomfort for her with her family and avoids future problems between you and your in-laws.

And Allah knows best

^Alhamdulillah.

This fatwa expresses my opinion:

In the name of Allah, We praise Him, seek His help and ask for His forgiveness. Whoever Allah guides none can misguide, and whoever He allows to fall astray, none can guide them aright. We bear witness that there is none worthy of worship but Allah Alone, and we bear witness that Muhammad (saws) is His slave-servant and the seal of His Messengers.

Allah Says in the Holy Quran Chapter 2 Surah Baqarah verse 223:
223 Your wives are as a tilth unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will.

Abu Dhar al-Ghafari reported: ‘The Messenger of Allah (saws) said: “there is a reward for you [even] in sex with your wife."’ The companions asked: ‘O Messenger of Allah (saws) is there a reward if one satisfies his passion?" He (saws) said: "Do you know that if he satisfies it unlawfully he has taken a sin upon himself? Likewise, if he satisfies it lawfully, he is rewarded."
Related by Ahmad and Muslim.

There is absolutely no ‘satr’ between a husband and a wife bonded in the sacred institution of marriage in Islam; and it is absolutely permissible for a husband and a wife to be intimate with each other to their hearts desire…..but in the absolute privacy of each other’s company alone.

It is obviously absolutely lawful for a husband and a wife united in the sacred bond of marriage to lovingly touch, peck, kiss, and be intimate with each other to their hearts desire…..but to physically display their sensuality in public, regardless of whether it be sensual touching, pecking or kissing, etc…….such acts would neither be considered piety nor appropriate for one who sincerely fears Allah and the Last Day.

Whatever written of Truth and benefit is only due to Allah’s Assistance and Guidance, and whatever of error is of me alone. Allah Alone Knows Best and He is the Only Source of Strength.

I think exchangin of rings durin weddin ceremony is the practice of some religion group(xtian).Marriage itself is ibadah and before it can be accepted from us it must be inline with the sunnah of the prophet(saw). The prophet's way is the best! There is nothing wrong with wearin rings bt it shouldn't b on the D-day. Allah knows best.

@tbaba, your Fatwa says we shouldn't consider kissing in public appropriate. I quite agree with this. However, I am willing to make an exception on the wedding day, you know why? Societal context within Nigeria.

If you fail to kiss your wife in public on your wedding day in Naija, it is like saying you're ashamed of letting the world know that you have chosen her ahead of all other women.

I can almost guarantee that such a lack of tact will come back to hurt your marriage in the future. The intention for most people that do it is not to make-out, it is just letting everyone know that the line of being lawful to each other in terms of intimacy has been crossed. Trust me, in Nigeria where half the number of singles at your wedding still find you attractive, it sends a subtle message that virtually everybody present can relate with.

So it is a show essentially.... Subhanallah!!... You should be more concerned with pleasing Allah on your wedding day than making the people happy...

Many people will not even notice if it doesn't happen...

If the prophet is a guest at your wedding, will he approve?

Kissing or not will not hurt your marriage... What will hurt your marriage is the failure to communicate with your spouse on issues, not treat your spouse nicely and fairly... Those are the things,that will hurt your marriage...

busar: I think exchangin of rings durin weddin ceremony is the practice of some religion group(xtian).Marriage itself is ibadah and before it can be accepted from us it must be inline with the sunnah of the prophet(saw). The prophet's way is the best! There is nothing wrong with wearin rings bt it shouldn't b on the D-day. Allah knows best.

This your position would favour me personally as I have already stated, I dislike the feel of jewelry on my skin. Now, at the time of ring presentation at practically every Nikah that I have attended, the officiating Imam states that these rings bear no significance beyond being tokens of affection. Hence, in this regard, I would advise any Muslim man wedding in Naija to go through the routine and avoid unnecessary negative attention to his new marriage. I intend to let whoever it is I am marrying that I am not going to be wearing my wedding ring very often. I hope the love I will show her will convince her that I have no sinister intentions.

I am sorry to state that many p,eople that outrightly insist on eliminating most of these cultural nuances don't last long in marriage. Why? They had alienated their support structure in terms of family and friends. When conflict arises between them (which is almost inevitable), they are abandoned because a lot of their family and friends bear resentment against them.

tbaba1234: So it is a show essentially.... Subhanallah!!... You should be more concerned with pleasing Allah on your wedding day than making the people happy...

Many people will not even notice if it doesn't happen...

If the prophet is a guest at your wedding, will he approve?

Kissing or not will not hurt your marriage... What will hurt your marriage is the failure to communicate with your spouse on issues, not treat your spouse nicely and fairly... Those are the things,that will hurt your marriage...

You take my submission out of context. I seriously doubt the Prophet (SAW) would disapprove of me kissing my WIFE lightly at my wedding. I doubt Allah will be displeased with me showing affection to my wife on my wedding day.

You might not understand some of these nuances. Yes, the position you hold is ideal but when you make them big enough to call-off a wedding, I think we have a problem.

@Mac, i don't really get your point, you are personally against the use of ring but approve the subtle kiss (because of societal factor). Am i right?

olawalebabs: @Mac, i don't really get your point, you are personally against the use of ring but approve the subtle kiss (because of societal factor). Am i right?

I personally don't like wearing rings whether it is for marriage or any other thing. I am saying that not giving or accepting a ring on your wedding day and not giving what has become the customary first kiss at your wedding are things that will make your new wife and people doubt your love for her.

Inasmuch as these two acts are not Haram because even the fatwa that supports tbaba's position did not call them that, I believe it is better to do them and start your marriage without controversy than to take the moral and spiritual high-ground and start your marriage on a controversial note.

That is what the first Fatwa that tbaba. quoted and me are saying.

^Let us be straight now and put it together....

Kissing in public is wrong... simple... kissing for show is even worse....

It is not in the sunnah, it is not the practice of muslims....

The first fatwa which i said supported your position gave concession in things that might be difficult particularly for a muslim living in a non-muslim society... Now That depends on what you term as difficult.... I do not think not kissing in a wedding in Nigeria falls into that category of difficulty...

If it was ok to show such open affection in a nikkah, the first to do would have been the prophet or his companions.

Another fatawa:

All perfect praise be to Allaah, The Lord of the Worlds. I testify that there is none worthy of worship except Allaah, and that Muhammad is His slave and Messenger.

A husband should not kiss his wife when other people can see them, or in a place where it is most likely that other people may see them; because bashfulness in one of the traits of faith, as reported from the Prophet by Al-Bukhaari and Muslim . Therefore, one should observe the Islamic etiquette when enjoying his wife.

Ibn Qudaamah [from the Hanbali school of jurisprudence] said: ‘A husband should not have intercourse with his wife when it is possible for someone else to see them or to hear their noise when copulating. Also, he should not kiss her or touch her in front of the people. Imaam Ahmad said: "For me, it is desirable that he should conceal all of this (i.e. do this in privacy only)."’

Therefore, if a husband tries to kiss his wife in front of the people, she is obliged to advise him and remind him to fear Allaah and to avoid doing so, because this public kissing is the practice of the disbelievers who have no honour nor dignity nor bashfulness.

However, if the married partners are sure that nobody at all could see them, then there is no harm for a husband to kiss his wife.

Allaah Knows best.

I think, it is pretty clear that it is not allowed or desirable.... The onus on your is to show that it presents a difficulty for one getting married in a place like Nigeria....

tbaba1234: ^Let us be straight now and put it together....

Kissing in public is wrong... simple... kissing for show is even worse....

It is not in the sunnah, it is not the practice of muslims....

The question is: Is it Haram? It wasn't in the culture of the Prophet (SAW) to eat lizards that doesn't make it Haram.

tbaba1234: The first fatwa which i said supported your position gave concession in things that might be difficult particularly for a muslim living in a non-muslim society... Now That depends on what you term as difficult.... I do not think not kissing in a wedding in Nigeria falls into that category of difficulty...

Trust me, I live in this society, and I know it is far from Islamic even within the Muslim community. I have given outlines of difficulties that may arise from not kissing your wife on your wedding day when virtually everybody including her expects you to do so. Re-read the entirety of the first Fatwa you posted and look at it in this context.

tbaba1234: If it was ok to show such open affection in a nikkah, the first to do would have been the prophet or his companions.

Once again, this point is not valid. The fact that the Prophet(SAW) never ate eba, doesn't make eba Haram.

tbaba1234: Another fatawa:

All perfect praise be to Allaah, The Lord of the Worlds. I testify that there is none worthy of worship except Allaah, and that Muhammad is His slave and Messenger.

A husband should not kiss his wife when other people can see them, or in a place where it is most likely that other people may see them; because bashfulness in one of the traits of faith, as reported from the Prophet by Al-Bukhaari and Muslim . Therefore, one should observe the Islamic etiquette when enjoying his wife.

Ibn Qudaamah [from the Hanbali school of jurisprudence] said: ‘A husband should not have intercourse with his wife when it is possible for someone else to see them or to hear their noise when copulating. Also, he should not kiss her or touch her in front of the people. Imaam Ahmad said: "For me, it is desirable that he should conceal all of this (i.e. do this in privacy only)."’

Therefore, if a husband tries to kiss his wife in front of the people, she is obliged to advise him and remind him to fear Allaah and to avoid doing so, because this public kissing is the practice of the disbelievers who have no honour nor dignity nor bashfulness.

However, if the married partners are sure that nobody at all could see them, then there is no harm for a husband to kiss his wife.

Allaah Knows best.

I think, it is pretty clear that it is not allowed or desirable.... The onus on your is to show that it presents a difficulty for one getting married in a place like Nigeria....

See the words being used "should" (advisory in nature not an injunction like "must". Imam Ahmad uses the word "desirable" not "compulsory". There is no punishment for kissing your wife in public. By the way light kissing is not intercourse tbaba.

I agree with these points in principle but for the purpose of a happy marriage in Nigeria especially in Yoruba land where I come from I think no one should rebuke a Muslim couple that kiss at their wedding.

Yes your position is the best but ease-up on pontificating to those who do otherwise. I am not responding to you on this point again- It has already been overflogged. Tell your friend to go and marry the girl and give a light kiss that will make her happy, there is no harm in it in my opinion. He will realise it a few years from now whether or not he marries her.

Allah knows best.

what am i doing here .. pls i do want to follow ok !!

maclatunji:

The question is: Is it Haram? It wasn't in the culture of the Prophet (SAW) to eat lizards that doesn't make it Haram.

t

Kissing was in the culture of the arabs, we know the prophet kissed his wives

He did not show open affection ...

If it is not haram, it is definite makrooh... either way, it is bad...

Trust me, I live in this society, and I know it is far from Islamic even within the Muslim community. I have given outlines of difficulties that may arise from not kissing your wife on your wedding day when virtually everybody including her expects you to do so. Re-read the entirety of the first Fatwa you posted and look at it in this context.

Again, it looks like public appearance is very important to you...

I disagree totally with the first opinion, I posted it to be fair. when ibn tamiyyah refered to difficulties in a non-muslim society, he was not refering to kissing in public... There are many muslim wedding where it does not happen... yes, even in Nigeria... So it is not in the realm of that kind of difficulty... better to stay away from ...

Once again, this point is not valid. The fact that the Prophet(SAW) never ate eba, doesn't make eba Haram.

Kissing existed at the time of the prophet, yet that kind of expression of affection was not practised...

See the words being used "should" (advisory in nature not an injunction like "must". Imam Ahmad uses the word "desirable" not "compulsory". There is no punishment for kissing your wife in public. By the way light kissing is not intercourse tbaba.

I agree with these points in principle but for the purpose of a happy marriage in Nigeria especially in Yoruba land where I come from I think no one should rebuke a Muslim couple that kiss at their wedding.

Yes your position is the best but ease-up on pontificating to those who do otherwise. I am not responding to you on this point again- It has already been overflogged. Tell your friend to go and marry the girl and give a light kiss that will make her happy, there is no harm in it in my opinion. He will realise it a few years from now whether or not he marries her.

Allah knows best.

There is what is called Makrooh in Islam... Something considered as disliked.... You will not get 'must' in those kinds of fatwas... It does not make them right to do.

It does not talk about intercourse alone... It also addresses the topic of public kissing, focus on that...

It does not affect the happiness of a marriage...no one cares.... Stop trying to please the people...

Allah knows best...